260: Why Leaders Must Be Great Storytellers

Welcome back to the Customer Service Revolution Podcast with John DiJulius I'm Denise Thompson and here's John, my co-host. How are you, John? Great, Denise. How are you?

I'm fantastic. You are on your way to Sweden. Well, almost in a blink. In a couple hours.

Tonight. Yeah. Excited. Copenhagen, Denmark.

Excited for the wedding too. do you have plans while you're in Denmark? Yeah, I don't know what they are. whatever Cal tells me, he has plans all the time.

Are you there for just one night? n I think we Tuesday and Wednesday night I think we go to Sweden on Thursday. Yeah. well we can't wait to hear about it when you get back.

Me too. you can tell us all about it. And you know, part of that is what today's topic is storytelling. So this is a topic that most leaders think they're doing well, but let's face it Very few of us actually are.

Most leaders communicate with facts, updates, KPIs, data. Yet the leaders we remember are the ones whose stories really change the way we think and how we work and how we lead. John, you wrote a blog which was also material that was featured in your book, The Employee Experience Revolution. but the blog is the power of storytelling.

And today we're gonna dig into that. and why storytelling isn't just a communication skill, it's a leadership skill that really impacts employee engagement, culture, trust, and ultimately the customer experience. So let's start with the big picture. you open up this article by saying leaders must become great storytellers.

It's a bold statement. Why isn't being a good communicator enough anymore? Well, I you know, if if you back up and think about those who've had a huge impact, rallied, you know, wha whether you're a a leader, entrepreneur, coach, whatever, you you're you're you're you know, pastor, you know, politician. Right.

You know, they the historically they've been great speakers and great speakers are historically great storytellers. So, you know, what Steve Jobs was able to to do and Jeff Bezos and all these incredible leaders, you know, they they you know, they're great storytellers. And you know, the research that we did, Dave Murray and I, co-author, shown to activate different parts of the brain than traditional communication. Message such as facts and figures.

We when we hear a story, our brains release dopamine, a chemical that helps us feel pleasure and motivation. This chemical response makes us more receptive to information and more likely to remember it. Additionally, stories can help us connect emotionally with a message, thereby increase its impact and influence. So, you know, whatever your greatest TV show, series, movies, it's usually was a great story.

and so, you know, a and employees. Most employees want more than just a competitive wage and and health insurance, right? They want to be part of something bigger. Whether you're, you know, a recruiter, a leader, a startup, you know, during an employee's career, especially during the interview stage, you must help them see your vision of what their short-term and long-term future could look like with your company.

And when done right, your vision becomes becomes their vision and this is a powerful transformation, a game changer for a team member to have someone who believes in them and what they're capable of. so but we always talk about communication is so important. What's the biggest difference between communication, communicating information, and telling a story? It's it yeah, it's it's the way you tell it.

you know, i you know, the data sells data tells stories sell, right? And you know, a s a s a story usually has a a villain, victim and hero in it and, you know, w we a group of people that have changed the world usually wants to rally around galvanize against the the victim, the atrocities in in in the world, in your industry, in your company. whenever I speak to any of my companies or or new employees or or re I I always start off with like in the salon business what the salon industry was like before John Roberts started and why we started the company was to to change the you know what was wrong in the salon industry.

You know, no employee benefits and and career opportunities and no good customer service, therefore no growth. and giving back to the community and and and why we're doing it and why we're still doing it and why w the why. The why is everything in a story and why it's needed. So you got the villain, the victim, the hero.

The victim is the people in the industry, the employees, opportunities, and and the customer. And then you know the the the hero is who you're speaking to. They have the opportunity to to to change everything and be transformational and help themselves and the customers and community flourish. So maybe maybe the answer to what I'm gonna ask you next has to do with that.

Why is it and you said data tells, stories sell, why is it that facts alone rarely inspire action? I mean, shouldn't we get excited because we know this number is, you know, gonna jump when we do this? Yeah, yeah. A study conducted by neuroscience Paul Zack found that stories following a narrative arc with a beginning, middle, and end, and including emotional elements can increase the oxytocin levels in the brain.

Oxytocin is a hormone associated with increased trust, empathy, and cooperation. This means w that when leaders use storytelling in the workplace, they can increase their employees' oxytocin level, making them more likely to trust one another and work together effectively. Science shows that storytelling is a powerful leadership tool. And because of the oxytocin release, stories can can be used in the workplace to inspire, motivate, engage employees.

They can help employees understand the company's values and missions and provide context For decision making that may be difficult to understand. Additionally, stories can be used to create a sense of community teamwork as they can share stories that illustrate their shared experiences. you know, what's that mean? It all starts with having a vision of what could be a true purpose, is a vision of how you will make the world a better place, a captivating envision inspires people to become evangelists around a movement.

a revolution. It's not the great idea that works, it's the great passion behind it. And every original idea was met with eye rolling and laughing. And that's why most ideas are killed long before they can ever become great.

if you have a great idea, you gotta put a p bulletproof vest on and get after it. And you gotta recruit. You gotta recruit people that, you know, buy into that idea and and then you start, you know, that's where the movement starts. All right, let's talk about the leader's role.

Why is storytelling one of the most overlooked leadership responsibilities? 'cause they're responsible for communicating the company's vision and goals to employees and for inspiring and motivating them to achieve those goals. people just don't want to trade hours for dollars, right? And especially the younger generation, thirty and under, they If you apply purpose to their jobs, I I think are are as good, if not better, than the previous generation, which is opposite of what most people think.

You know, the art of leadership storytelling can be used to build relationships with employees while creating a culture in which team members feel fully informed, free to ask questions, and share ideas on their own. And there's a quote by Stan Slap, a author, culture consultant and and he says when your company says you want your employees to be leaders What they really mean is that you want their emotional commitment to your vision. A leader's emotional commitment is about taking on the company's success as its personal crusade.

Right? I love that, but that's then what leaders need to do with, you know, employees. So they need to do that by getting their emotional buy-in. Yeah, exactly.

Emotional commitment. Correct. And that's what the storytelling is helping with. so there are a lot of leaders out there, you know, some that think they're really great storytellers and may be, and then there are others who know it's not their forte.

Is storytelling a talent that anyone can develop? I believe. you know, I I I believe it it it when when you think of speaking, I know speaking is one of the top in front of people is one of the top fears that most people have. But if you just think about i you know, telling a story, I think I think e everyone tells stories, you know, a around the dinner table, you know or at the bar and I think the best storytellers are are ones that it sounds like you're sitting next to them, you know, a a at a Starbucks or over beers.

And so, you know, I I I think, you know, it it it it's it's really about, you know, understanding, you know, with facts, you gotta have facts, but you know, it when you tell a story and and the power it has and where it's going and then you hopefully have some irrefutable evidence to back up that story, both evidence and aha's. And the aha's don't come from data as much as it comes from from, you know, the the the examples that how it's worked or how it's working. I have two friends, both named Dawn, who are amazing storytellers.

You I mean, you feel like you're there when it's happening and they're funny and they're animated and that. You really think that's something that any of us can how do you develop that? Yeah, i I I you know, you know understanding that the overall importance of s you know storytelling be b before diving into training process is crucial to emphasize the significance of of of w what the storytelling's you know is and you know I just think it's practice. you know, and and it's it's knowing what you're talking about, right?

And obviously you know, leaders are put into a a a lot of situations where you know they might have to sell something that they don't know enough on yet. And that's dangerous 'cause you know, you know, the authenticity's so important and you gotta know what you're talking about. and you gotta believe it. I mean if you don't believe it, you know, it th it's gonna be hard.

The greatest storyteller's gonna come across as you know not as authentic. So I just you know that there there's there's four components of stories of telling a story, you know, purpose emotional connection, structure, and authenticity. So, you know, the the the purpose is, you know, a clear and concise purpose, right? Every story needs to have that, whether it's to motivate the team, illustrate a point, or share a valuable lesson.

Leaders must align the story with the intended message to ensure you know the the galvanizing of the group. They need to know the purpose first and draft the story accordingly. A nice story can. simply be told with the hopes of having a purpose somewhere the purpose of each story must be you know obvious and so that that's really really important you know the second one emotional connection right you your story has to evoke emotions leaders should learn how to connect with their audience by applying authentic reflections incorporating emotions such as empathy inspiration and humor if that works for them Focus on stories that team members can relate to, which includes situations they may find themselves in from time to time, and reach out to them on a human level with within the business context and find and share stories of a team member overcoming conflict or barriers to achieve success.

you know, so so that's really important. and and I think part of that is is being vulnerable and and the leaders have to open. with vulnerability where they failed, where maybe when they were in that employees job they struggled, got fired, almost got fired, whatever, and how they turn turned it around. And so you know, so you can show you know how hard the job is that you're telling people.

structure, that's a third one. you know if it's not focused and prepared it's easy to take a great theme and turn it into rambling, going down rabbit holes. that's very Very, very dangerous. you know, you gotta have good structure, which allows for good storytelling, but the stories have to apply, the humor has to apply.

You just don't want to talk about you know a priest and a rabbi walk into a bar, right? It has to has to apply. my my favorite quote with humor is it makes the audience laugh for ten seconds and think for thirty, right? So it has to have relevance to to the to the to the narrative.

And then finally authenticity is is key to building trust to create jet to create genuine connections with your team. Leaders should be encouraged to share purposeful leadership stories, including their own. and this can come from stories of their own growth within the organization, a department or specific position. you know so so you know those are the four key, but again, I every presentation I give and and and whether it's you know a page in front of an audience or it's in front of my team, I try to remember the three components of storytelling with the three characters in a story, which is villain, victim and and hero.

And you know, who's the villain? no one just wants to do something just because, you know, they have to do it. They want to do something because it's it's meaningful and and and and why and we don't want that to happen anymore, which is the victim and then the hero. You know, everyone wants to be the hero of the story.

And so make them the hero by showing if they follow this system, this methodology, what you're telling them, they're going to become the hero because they're going to slay the villain and we're going to have less victims as a result. Which of those, the purpose, emotional connection, structure, authenticity, what do you think leaders struggle with the most? Hmm. I'm gonna put that back on you.

What do you think? Because you you you are you've you've been an employee, you've been a leader, you're you're owner, and you are a sponge with watching, you know, and and learning from the best speakers in the world, as well as you've seen different CEOs. w what what what's your thought that you'd be concerned with I would say a toss up between emotional connection and authenticity. Okay.

And why? Well th let's rule the other ones out first. I think it's easy. The purpose of why you're speaking, especially if you are doing a presentation, you have it planned, there's a there's a reason you're telling the story.

and structure, i I think that's easy for anyone to learn. you know, th if you with your your outline with the, you know, hero villain. So I think a structure you know, people can figure out. But I think being authentic means being vulnerable and I think that's tough for a lot of people.

And the emotional connection, I think that comes from a piece of that as well. It's not easy to connect with people today. And especially if you're on a stage and your audience is Right. not somebody that you're having a one on one conversation with.

So I think emotional connection can be can be a bit tricky. Who are some of your favorite external speakers outside of The DiJulius Group that you you that have moved you? Right. Or Dave.

I you know what, I really like Dan Pink that was just on. I I I love to listen, like when it comes to storytelling, I think Brene Brown is a really good storyteller. like I does a great job of data. I mean, he yeah, whene whenever I see him speak, I'm just astonished of how he's so nerdy, but he makes it so interesting.

Like, I don't know, he's just so gifted at that. I think those are my favorites, uh speakers. George W.'s speechwriter.

I don't know if you knew that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But again, uh I I I I gotta assume most of our audience uh listening is not on stage in front of a large audience. It it just might be a a team rally, it might be orientation, it might be recruiting, it might be, you know, transforming a culture. Uh and you know, the the same methodology applies, but You know, it's what's in it for me and and and that's not a selfish thing f you know, to to address. you know you know way you found to create that emotional connection with an audience?

Or your staff? you know, I I I learned a long time ago that you're never the hero of your story. So the speaker, the leader, the entrepreneur. So to be self-deprecating to show that, you know, I was where you were, the employee, the new employee, wherever, you know, and maybe worse off.

you know, it's to just be vulnerable and and and never it the the the credit never goes to, you know, the leader. It goes to you know, the team and when we are able to do that. And yeah, there I mean there's a there's so many great books and and courses and and stuff on storytelling. and yeah, yeah, I just think it's so easy today to, you know, with with with YouTube and all the channels just to get a a a you know, a little educating.

And and and I always tell people who who want to become better speakers, go watch the top ten or twenty TED talks of all time. Okay? No matter the topic. 'Cause a lot of times when I was starting off I didn't want to hear anything that was outside of my niche.

But that didn't mean I always saw good speakers, you know, it's really limit so That's how I stumbled on a Dan Daniel Pink or a Simon Sinek or all these great speakers. And while I didn't it wasn't their topic that excited me or I'd ever speak on, it was their style and you know, and the different styles. And then the ones I found that I can't I can't talk like Daniel Pink and I can't talk like Simon Sinek. but I can talk like Jimmy Velvano back in the day, if people remember, or Tom Peters, that just have so much energy and and and and and and and you know w a great storyteller will put a pit in someone's stomach.

a great salesperson I believe will put a pit in someone's stomach about how much opportunity, money and customers they're losing by not, you know, taking action. You know, that's a great point because salespeople have to be great storytellers too. A hundred percent. I mean, yeah, that's why.

That's why we all like case studies and testimonials, because I can tell you if you follow this methodology, you're gonna retain more customers and you know, have less ha discount less, but really doesn't click in until I tell you a story or several of companies and look where they were and where they are today as a result. let me ask you about something else here, visuals. How what's your take on visuals and using technology? Well that's usually a and I was guilty of it too, that's usually where you can tell a professional speaker from a non and again I know not everyone listening it wants to be and and will have the time and resources to be a professional speaker.

But you can always, you know, i i i i if you ever go to a a conference or I'm sorry, a a let's let's say a company conference. annual conference, you can tell the inside people who are just getting up there to present on hey, why you should use our you know, new software or CFO or all those. And it's just horrible PowerPoint. too much data on there.

their their slide is their script and it was mine too. you know, thirty years ago I was so proud of my PowerPoint because it had, you know, each slide had six bullet points of just six words that made no sense to you, the audience, but it would say, you know, whatever, Disney. tell the Disney story. Or, you know, Whatever, it would just be my cue.

And I thought that was so brilliant. And then I started seeing professional speakers and I read a a a a book on really bad PowerPoint and it really upset me because it was everything I was doing wrong. And so your PowerPoint should just be an aid to the audience, not to you. So if you're talking about a story at Magic Kingdom, you should have a picture of Magic Kingdom ground.

So again, you are there. walking down Magic Kingdom, whatever story I'm gonna tell. And you picture that little girl dropping her ice cream cone and ha having a fit because, you know, and and you know, now Disney comes to the rescue and gives her a new ice cream cone. Right.

You know, the the visual shouldn't say it shouldn't be a bullet point with ice cream cone. Right. And and so you know another great I always say the top four presenters to copy are politic usually politicians, CEOs, coaches, and comedians. And you know, comedian is doing everything that we're trying to do.

they're storytelling. I mean the best comedians are storytellers. And but you they don't have PowerPoint. They don't have A V.

but you're you're in the bar with them when they are expressive and they, you know, are using their hands and they knock the, you know, tall beer on the biker sitting next to him, Fu Manchu, you know, tattooed, the way you tell you're like, my God, he's about to get his ass kicked. Right? And and it's the same thing. So I think we tend to lean on our our A V or our our slides more than we need to.

if our listeners are looking to become better storytellers, let's say someone wants to become better over the next thirty days, what practical advice would you give them? Yeah, I mean it i it it's absolutely like anything. It's repetition, it's it's mu muscle memory, it's practice and continuous improvement. yeah leaders should be encouraged to seek feedback from coaching, their peers, superiors, even team members.

And it needs to start at the top. The organization should invest in development of of communication and speaking skills. and again, we don't think of speaking as you're in front of an audience of twenty-five or more. So anytime you get a group of people in front of you that you're trying to get aligned.

you know, so Yeah, you know, it it i it it it's it's a it's a leader's role to create such a vivid, crystal clear vision of the company's future that team members, other leaders and customers rally around it. And that sounds funny, but you know Apple customers rally around it. you know, the the the great companies. Tesla, you know, I don't know if they're still like that, but my God, you know, when Tesla at least five, six years ago, it seem I I I don't know.

I don't know if they still feel like this, but God, I made the mistake of of bumping into people with Tesla hats or Tesla shirts because I was thinking about buying a Tesla and I'd ask about it and they would just speak to me. like they worked there, like they had stock. They were so proud of it. you know, but but that'll make people want to be part of it, be obsessed with it.

the leader must constantly be talking about reminding them to rev visit, evolve and connect to how each team member's direct impact shapes that reality and accomplishes the vision. So, you know, it it it it it could be through Toastmasters, it could be, you know, you know speaking clubs, it could, you know, watching videos and then, you know, having other groups in your company w rehearse with each other on and and giving feedback because as you you've sat through and and and and participated a lot of speaking courses and I always can tell when people get it when they're giving constructive feedback.

you know, they're they're they're part of the the the class, but when they're giving feedback and say, you know, you know, Denise, you you when you went down a rabbit hole and I'm not sure if you're gonna come back or that was just an unnecessary detail. You that that's great feedback. And so when they start seeing it in other people, they're gonna, you know, that that's gonna make them s them better. That's a great point.

Um with the always think I you are you are one of the best at that's why I love when we do when we've done s story or s presentation skills or when we're training our new consultants for you to come in 'cause you just give such good feedback on on people. I'm much better at the feedback than the presentation. John, where's the best place to find stories? your life.

the news, your life experiences, I think are the best. I remember when I started, you know, we used to i i the the in the early nineties we used to go to these conferences for salons, Mid America, Veda, Fredericks, and I saw David Wagner speak. author of Life as a Daymaker. And I just loved him and and loved the way he spoke.

And he he was one of the reasons probably why I wanted to get into it. I I sat in the his audience as a salon owner, I'm like, my God, I want to do what he's doing. and then I'd go to every time I could see him speak, I'd go watch him. And then I started speaking a little bit.

And 80% of my presentation was his stories. And I always give him credit, but that's, you know, I didn't have or I didn't know I had enough of my own. So I remember I met him the first time I met him. I'm like, David, you know, I I wish I had a dollar for every time I I I I I I mention your name in a speech.

I tell your stories. And he said, you know, to me, do what Lou Holtz told me. And he said, tweak it and make it your own. I really wasn't sure what he meant by that.

I wasn't sure if he was telling me to stop using his material. But then I thought about, and he was so right that the story that he said happened to me in a similar different, you know, environment, different thing. And then it really became my stories became powerful because they were mine instead of, you know, third person stories. So I just think yeah, just finding people who have similar styles and learning why they pause there, you know, that's my weakness is, you know, I I I I I I have too much content and I don't let people it just soak in.

the aha, I'm on to the next. And so I've had to literally work in pauses and like literally tell myself, I'm gonna pause there and I'm gonna, you know, do this here. so finding what your strengths are and leaning into that, but also, you know, you have to you have to you can't have weaknesses and and and like I said, one of mine was too much content. I if I have a half an hour, I'm gonna have forty-five minutes of content in the half an hour.

If I have four hours, I'm gonna have five hours, and that's a mistake. Less is better, said really well. and and also understanding that you you a lot of times you're not gonna tell anyone something they haven't heard before, but they haven't heard it that way. said that way is really important.

And if you really have passion behind it, that will really help you with the lack of professionalism or the ums and the you knows. People won't even hear that if you are excited about what you're talking about. Alright, lightning round here. Ready?

Biggest storytelling mistake leaders make. Hmm. two it so this is really hard. It's it's too many details versus not enough.

So right, you know, I'm I'm having this conversation with Denise and she wore a a black skirt and you know and and and you know if if the black skirt has nothing to do with it, why are you telling me? But then there's really good details that you need to tell, like the the example of spilling the beer on the guy next to you. You know, if I don't tell you what the guy looks like, he might have been a nerdy accountant, you know, with wire rim glasses and weighed a hundred and ten pounds, which, you know, no no you know, I owe him a beer.

But If he had, you know, like I said, a Fu Man Chu and he was 250 pounds of pure muscle with tattoos and a biker and he's part of a you know a biker group that's there, you know, that's that's the details that need to be said in that story versus you know the unnecessary details. So you know, it yeah, it it it it it's it's just it it it's that. It's just knowing the right details. And again, you only know when you hear stories and You know, I I do that a lot, like, all right, why'd they say that?

And a good person a good speaker will use that later on, the black dress, right? And you may be wondering why, you know, but it may come back. But if it never comes back, it's unnecessary detail that now my mind is waiting for the punchline to the black dress and it never comes back and I'm not listening to what they're currently telling me. What's the story every CEO should be telling regularly?

Th why the business exists to help, you know, humans flourish, right? To to you know, transform you know, a a company there shouldn't be a company alive that isn't around to have a positive impact on humanity. If it is, you know, that's it's it's not a a a a right company. Every company should have a positive impact or the goal should be to have a positive impact.

So why? And and and and what would hap and why us? So if if you know there's hundreds, thousands of consulting firms, there's hundreds, thousands of salons, there's hundreds, thousands of accounting firms, whatever business you're in. So i if you took we never were alive, the business, the brand, people would still have places to go to get accounting, hair, consulting services.

That that's not the problem that we're solving. What what's different if we weren't there? Right? You know, and and and and what's that, you know, what what are we doing that's that's, you know, making a wrong a right?

All right, and one word that describes great storytelling. Do have one? you know, my mind are there they're gonna be multiple words. Impact impact?

But it but it it's it's not only about impact go ahead. What? I was gonna say lesson. Yeah, but it's not only about impact.

Well, I I guess it is, but you know, hey, if we sell more of these, we're gonna be more profitable. Employees, that doesn't get an employee out of bed. It's their personal impact and what that's gonna do for their life. So I don't know how to say that one word.

Hm. It's good though. All right, and are you gonna be teaching this skill any time soon? hopefully we do it every week and in our presentations, but there's a lot of great resources out there for you, for the companies.

I think they should have it's like book clubs, they should have speaking clubs and it should be part of their leadership development. And listen, w w w whether your companies do it or not, if you are a leader and you wanna be successful, you gotta do it on your own. Nothing will rise you through the ranks faster than galvanizing a team, a department to perform better. That's great.

you do teach it though in the academy? Do you teach it in there or they just because they have to practice it so often? That's why they get so much better. they they have to present every quarter and we give a little tidbits on how to do it and kind of h what we've talked about.

you know, they have to Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then yeah, and then their final quarter they have to do a full blown case study or the last twelve months. And by that time because their peers in the class every quarter give them feedback on what they liked and what would have been a a you know a an opportunity for them. So it's not necessarily speaking c course by any stretch, but they have to present it.

And and they're also rehearsing to take it back to present it to their CEO, which is really important and obviously to their team members. All right, listeners, storytelling isn't just about entertaining people. It's about helping people understand, believe, remember, and probably most importantly take action. If you're leading a team, stories are one of the most powerful tools that you have to build trust, reinforce culture, create an employee experience that ultimately delivers a better customer experience.

If you'd like to read John's full article, we'll include it in a link in the show notes or pick up a copy of the Employee Experience Revolution. We'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Customer Service Revolution Podcast. John, we'll see you when you get back from your trip.

Thank you. Thanks. Okay.