Ep. 120: Outgrow Private Accounting: A CPA’s Rise

Speaker A: When it comes to CPAs, just understanding the statistics, right? If you look at the numbers globally of black CPAs, right, on a global spectrum, it's like 3%. So when I got that number and those data points, it became personal. It was like, I'm going to get this done because I have to improve on this number.

Speaker B: Hello, hello, this is CPA Career Path podcast with Rosie Flaherty, cpa, msa, where we dive into three thrilling journeys into the world of, uh, accounting. Hey Sharmon, how are you?

Speaker A: I'm great. How about yourself?

Speaker B: I'm doing good. Thank you so much for being on my podcast today. So today we have a special guest, Sharmon, from Grant Thornton. He's a partner in advisory services for 11 years. Oh my God, that's a long time. So before we dive into your CPA journey, can you share with me and the audience a little bit more about yourself?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, uh, like you stated, I'm a partner at Grant Thornton in our risk advisory space, specialized in service financial institutions across whether it's like asset manager, broker dealers. Um, uh, my second part of that is actually leading and pushing and growing a lot of our asset managers. So at the moment I'm kind of our domestic leader within the asset management uh, advisory arm. Um, been, um, with the firm, like you said, 11 years. It's been a great journey thus far. And then prior to that I spent some time at other institutions like IBM, consultant for about three years. And then I was at a small, uh, mid tier bank called Workforce national where I started my career. So I'm a unique gem and what we call in the industry of a reverse commuter. Most people go public and then go into the industry. I kind of went industry and then I went, um, into public. So, um, I'm a husband for over 15 years and then, um, I'm a lovely father to two young boys. I have a 14 year old and a six year old. So they're keeping me quite busy, uh, within a New York City area.

Speaker B: Oh, you in New York City? In East Coast. Same to me. And guess what, we're on the same boat for. I'm moving from private to public as well. So I work in private for a number of years and then move to public and I said, oh my God, public is so much more fun. I love it. I don't want to go back to private.

Speaker A: Agree, right. It's just so much, to me it's more fulfilling, it's a lot more challenges and I just enjoy the, the challenges to be able to assist My clients with, you know, being that solution for them. Right. It's always the concept of how I have a problem. And I like to be the guy to say, hey, I'm. I'm the solution and I'll figure it out for you. So it's just different. Right? Change of pace, change the dynamics. No days the same. Right. And I really enjoy that. No knock on the accounting profession and be in the industry. But my days was kind of consistent. You know, I knew when my vacation time was and different things like that. But in public, it's just been so fulfilling for me.

Speaker B: Yeah, I feel the same. I think one of the best thing I noticed in public is that when I move from private to public, I notice that people almost at the same age with me because when I work in private, I'm kind of working with people a lot of older age. And I was like, I'm like their baby. And they treat me like their baby. And so when I move to public, I said, oh, my God. Where I find all my. All my people the same age here. That's amazing. So I think that's something that I love, that I can hang out with people I work with, uh, in public accounting. So I know we can talk a lot more about public accounting, and we can revisit this topic later in this conversation, but I want to dive in at the very beginning of your career, like back in college. Can you share with us why you decided to go with the accounting major?

Speaker A: So, yeah, so I had a unique, uh, situation back when I was in college. And I don't know, my wife always say, look, it was just the power above, uh, or God just talking to you because I had a interesting professor in college. And just by background, I didn't study accounting undergrad. I did business. But I was pretty strong at it. Right. I had a professor I'd never forget. Her name is like Professor Blackbird. She had her own practice. She was in Ohio, because that's where I'm originally from. And, you know, I took a couple courses one summer. I got like a 95 in, like, you know, financial reporting or something like that. And she was just stressing me to say, hey, you should probably change your major to accounting. I'm like, I don't know, because all I remember back then was the pocket projector, tax preparer type CPAs. And I'm like, they don't seem like they're pretty cool. They don't seem like they have fun. Um, so I didn't want to embark on it. And she kept Chipping away at me the whole time in college. And then fast forward, years later, I go to business school in Columbus. I finished business school. I got my MBA in finance, and then I get my first job, and it's an accounting job. So, you know, the journey is interesting. And I think if you find yourself being good at something, right? Especially in college, some mentors, some guidance, those guidance counselors and professors, they know talent when they see talent. And it's probably best to do your own research, have those candid conversations, and then maybe capitalize on that moment. Right. Uh, I feel like I wasted probably an extra three years and I could have been here sooner. But, you know, listen to your own intuition and those good people around you in your circle giving you the guidance to, you kind of embark on it.

Speaker B: That's true. Because when I was in college, my friend recommended me. Hey, why don't you try tax? But as you, as you mentioned, like, when you think about accounting before, all you see just tax and boring stuff. I was like, no way. I'm, um, going to do tax. Like, that's going to be the last job ever on the earth. Uh, I want to try. So I try everything else but tax. And then finally I said, okay, I want to try tax. And guess what? I love it.

Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. And that's always the concept, right. I think we, we don't know what we would love until we do research. We have the exposure. So I think it's important to do the research, listen to the intuition and some of your circle. Right. Give you that guidance. And I could, I think it could go a long ways. Um, accounting is a good profession, and I just wish they had more conversations outside of tax and audit, even advice. Right. Uh, consultant and advisory came about like, I want to say early 2000s. Right. Um, and when I graduated college, you would just hear consulting. But they didn't supposedly state advisory. I understand how that coincides with the accounting profession. So they're, they're beginning to change that. But I think that's helpful, understanding the full spectrum of what's available in the accounting profession.

Speaker B: That's true. That people should know, like, there are a lot more options in this accounting profession than just tax or audit or private or public, something like that. So you work in a bank for three years at that point, you didn't have accounting degree, you had business degree, right?

Speaker A: Correct. Yep. Correct. And they were funding me to get like an accounting degree at a time. So one thing I don't have in my experience, I actually have a dual. So I'M a little bit, uh, so I have a dual, I have an MBA in finance and then I also have a master's in accounting in finance. So I mean a master in accounting, a master in accounting and MBA in finance. So I got my mba and then while, while actually working as an accountant, I'm talking with some people and interacting with individuals and you know, they're telling me about the cpa and I'm like, what is this cpa? You know, like what, what's so special about it? You know, and got some, did my research, got some conversations with some good colleagues back then and they were like, hey, it's, it's the, they, they used it and summed it up as it's the, it's the certification. Ah. People always talk about doors open, but it's really the doors that are not closed when you retain it. So I started looking into it and then I was like, oh, as an accountant, my employer was like, I'll help you pay. Right? They paid for me to be part of this one year master's uh, in accounting program. And I went on a journey to get my, my cpa, but I had to get the accounting requirements first. So I got the accounting requirements first and then I looked at getting the cpa, uh, from that perspective.

Speaker B: Yeah, you must have way above 150 credit hours at that point.

Speaker A: I did, I had a lot. And we'll talk about even the journey again. Certified. Because the requirements of New York is, varies from Ohio. So I had to learn that too. And I had to actually take some extra courses when I moved to New York because I got certified in New York at the time.

Speaker B: Wow. And so when you study for the CPA exam, so you already work full time at that point, and then you study for the master degree for MBA and then also for accounting, and then you study for CPA exam. And then if I calculate the time back, you probably got married at that time as well, correct?

Speaker A: Yeah, I got married. It was a lot of moving parts. Right? I got married, I got, I had my firstborn son right after I got married. Right. And so it was a lot of moving parts. And my journey from a CPA was. And I would probably get into that, but like it was not easy. Uh, I think I went into the exam a little arrogant. Like, I'll be honest, like I'm gonna get done as probably most business school people probably do. And I got humbled really quick, understanding the level effort and the rigor and the studies that it will warrant. Having a family, having you know, a full work, work day of 40, 50 hours a week, where I had to actually put it on a pause, um, because I lost credit, I put it on the pause in Ohio, we move east. Um, I kind of put it off, put it off again many times when I was at IBM Consulting. And then when I went back to public accounting, I made my initiative when we moved to New York to get it done. And I have to say, it is not easy working in public accounting, being married and having a son. Let's just say I put on a few pounds because it was long nights, early mornings, and it took me a couple years, uh, with losing credit, but I finally got it done. And it was definitely one of the greatest accomplishments I ever had in my life.

Speaker B: So when you start, like, having a very strong commitment to study for CPA exam, when you go back to public accounting, at that point you probably, like, try to prove yourself at work, try to also, like, be a good dad at home, be a good husband at home, and study for the CPA exam. How long did it take you to pass the fall section?

Speaker A: So I don't want to scare anyone, but I would say at the time I started my journey in Ohio, I probably started in like, I'll, uh, say 20. 2010. Right. And from 2010 to about 2016, so about six years of being off and on. But I think once I put my head down, it took me about two years. So once I really focused, it took me two years, but the journey itself was about five, six years. I mean, it was to the point. Rosie, I'll be honest. I registered for the exam in Ohio, and then when I moved, I had to get re registered in a state of New York and, you know, just to get licensed. And that's when I had the hiccup. Like, I passed the exam, I met the requirements, which was only about 24 credits in Ohio, but it's 33 in New York, and I was like two credit short. So I had to go and get some extra accounting courses just to get certified. So it's just, it was one of those. My journey, uh, as I said, was not easy, but it was definitely a journey. But it was well worth it.

Speaker B: So what give you stay so committed with that journey? What motivates you when you feel like, oh, my God, I just want to give it up.

Speaker A: You know, it's, it's, it's my son that's looking up to see, hey, my dad has, you know, he's focused. He doesn't quit on anything. But one more Important value for me right, when it comes to CPA is just understanding the statistics, right? If you look at the numbers globally of black CPAs, right? On a global spectrum, it's like 3%. So when I got that number and those data points, it became personal. It was like, I'm going to get this done because I have to improve on this number. And it just shows the more value that it has, but more importantly to the community and to blacks that we need to accomplish this great prestigious certification to as well. So because of those numbers, I took it personal and I said, hey, I'm going to stick with it. No matter how long it takes, I'm going to get it done.

Speaker B: That's very strong determinant. That's good, that's good. We need that in order to pass a CPA exam. Because a lot of time I feel like CPA exam is not just like an exam, it's like the exam. I talk to a lot of people. It's like the exam, it tests so much your commitment, your determinant, your discipline, like a lot of your personality to be able to pass the CPA exam. So, yeah, kudos to everyone out there to pass a CPA exam. I never want to take it again.

Speaker A: You know what they say, like, CPAs can't pass again. I'm not taking it again. And, um, it just shows the value too, right? And another thing is like, hey, if it was easy, everyone would have it, right? So that shows the rigor and value of this rigorous certification and why it's definitely worth pursuing.

Speaker B: That's true. That's true. So when you work in private for like, I would say six years and half, what made you decide to move to public?

Speaker A: So like IBM consultant gave me a little bit of the public sector because it was like we were servicing accountants. I mean, servicing clients in a more consultant fashion. It just wasn't accountant, it was more consultant. A little bit of risk segment. But for me, it was that, that jump, right? I wanted the rigor and prestige of becoming a partner. I wanted the title, I wanted the fulfillment of being, hey, I'm a CPA now. Let me go work for a public accounting firm. So that was one of the reasons why I made the jump to say, hey, I'm going to move, we're going to move to New York City and we're going to be in New York City and I'm going to work for Grant Thorough or one of the bigger firms and really learn and grow, right? I've heard so, so many great stories from Peers and colleagues of working at public accounting firms. The knowledge, the training, the experience, the exposure, right? You're taught, you're. You're pretty much developed on another level compared to the industry, right. Even with clients now is I have a wealth of knowledge that I can share across my clients, right? Saying if I work in a client in Chicago or Boston and there's similarities, I know the problem and challenges that they're having, that I can apply to a client in New York or so forth. So gaining that expertise and that knowledge in public accounting is what I value and I want it. Right. In addition, I had a very good mentor at the time who was a public accountant and he was really pushing me to get the certification and really pushing for me to get experience in the public sector because that person had a small stint and they wish they would have stayed.

Speaker B: It's amazing to have a great mentor.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker B: It's so important and it's just strange. Everything. I didn't have a mentor until I got in public accounting as well. But when I was in private, I was all over places I was. I didn't know what I want, what should I do, where should I go, what should I try? And then when I got in public, I started having a mentor and then it's just like so much easier. I know my path is so clear. How can I get there? What do I need to do to get there? So having a mentor is just so important. Do you have any tips and advice for people how they can find a mentor for themselves to advance their career?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the advice you have is just really having candid conversations. I was. I will always highly recommend that you meet someone. And again, one important fact I've learned, your mentors doesn't have to be. They don't have to look like you, be the same gender, so forth. They could be of different types of nationality. Right. I think people get comfortable gaining mentors that look or resemble them. Right. I think some of my best mentors and biggest advocates have not looked like me and they've been great feedback for me. So I would say get outside your comfort zone. Get to know individuals that you know may be a little different than you, that can pour into you. Second, when you begin to, uh, have authentic conversation, get to genuine know someone. And I think they're more probe into being open to poor, pour inside you. Right? To pour into your career and that structure and feedback, you want to be more embracive and open because they have been through the fire. They have Been on the journey and they know the do's and not to do's, right. So I think it's important to interact with them so you get the guidance over time and again as you move up, there's different levels of mentors. You have some mentors that are seasonal, right. If you have short term goals and you have some mentors that are long term, uh, right in life. So I'm a partner, right. And getting into some good season years at the firm and I uh, still have mentors. So I think it's very important to have them and I think they can have guidance.

Speaker B: That's amazing. I love those tips. It's very difficult for a lot of people to start a conversation to ask someone to be a mentor. Luckily a lot of public accounting firms, they actually have a mentor within the firm and they assign side mentor to you the first day you start the job in public accounting firm. So that's a good thing. If you feel like I'm so shy I cannot go out and find one, at least most, I would say medium size and above, they have a mentor, they have peer for you to like who you, if you have any questions, you know who to reach out to. So good mentor is very important for your career. If anyone listening to this podcast, I know I emphasize this a lot in a lot in many of uh, my conversations. But it's never enough to emphasize how important it is to have a good mentor. Circle back to your, to your career path. When you work in private for six years and a half and then you move to public and you start, you, you have to start from a level one associate. Now I'm just curious, with six year and half in private, does that have you help you to move up faster from associate to senior because you already have experience in private under your belt?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think from my case. So just answer your question. In a short spectrum, depending on what size of the business you are, right. So there's requirements like if you're auditing, tax, understanding certain things like that. However, I think the firms and public accounting firms have become more abrasive of people in industry would experience because we're starting to see there's a value there of knowledge and understanding specific specifics on granular spectrum because you're working on the same thing day in and day out. So your granular knowledge is way a little bit more complex sometimes than an associate who comes out of college who's learning and working on multiple variety of things. For me, again, I did three years at a bank, three years in accounting. Then I went into like a little bit of quasi consulting for IBM, servicing clients. And then when I came over, yeah, I was uh, I wasn't an associate, but I was more what we call our senior associate level. So that gave me that, that five, six years experience boost me up to skip the associate and go right into like more of a, uh, an associate. And I think it definitely fueled and accelerated my career, especially on the, the advisory side of the house, because I had that level in knowledge and I knew how to interact with clients because I had the correlation and previous experience similar to them, which had fueled me. So I think the combination of my experience, the combination of constantly pursuing the cpa, it allowed me to kind of expedite my process a little further and kind of skip the associate and move up from that perspective.

Speaker B: I see we, uh, we have a brief discussion about private and public at the beginning of this conversation. I'm just curious if you can share with the audience, what did you feel when you work in private for those, those years? Six years and a half, what did you find the best or the worst time in, in private accounting?

Speaker A: Yeah. So for me, working in private, and that would be consist of for those college, college students or podcast viewers out there, I, uh, would say the private is considered working for a company. Like, you know, if you work it for, you know, a Chase or you work for like a T Mobile, that would be considered private. Right. You're working in industry and you're working directly for those employers. So for me, the benefit was, hey, I was learning a lot about working for that bank and learning a lot technical, uh, elements of, of doing the financial reporting. So I kind of knew month close, quarter close, annual close. I knew all the ins and outs of it. The negative downside was the organization was kind of flat, um, and upward growth and upward mobility was limited. I didn't feel like I was the captain of my career. Like you said, I was one of the younger individuals that was around and my direct supervisor was like in her 50s. So I was, I was like, well, I don't think I'm going to get promoted anytime soon. Right. And, and being out of college when I grew, I was a ambitious. I wanted to move up. So at that point there was a little bit of redundancy for me and a little bit of the flatness of not understanding if there was upward mobility that caused me to want something a little bit more challenging and a little bit more flexible. In addition, I kind of wanted some exposure to travel and working on a variety of different accounts. So that's why for me, right, the positive was, hey, I got really good at what in the technicality of knowing what I need to do for closing the books. And then I got. I knew exactly what my vacation time was so I could plan a quarterly for vacation time and so forth. And then I had the time where I need to study. It was definitely a little bit easier to do it there because you would close and you would know. You knew your calendar. The flip side was flat organization, limited upward mobility for me, and just not the variety and challenges that I wanted at that time.

Speaker B: I feel the same, exactly the same when I work in private. I was in private for five years, and so I was like, oh, I. All the new things I think I can learn in first month. And then by. By like three to four months, I pretty much do the same thing over and over and over.

Speaker A: Exactly. You get really, really good at those things. And then you're looking like, hey, is there anything else?

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Uh, your junior counting, they're like, okay, you're. You're responsible for this, you know, these clothes for, like, fixed assets and, and, you know, commitment contingencies is over. And then this person is responsible for, like, the debt. And you're like, can we switch so I can learn something else? Like, it's been a year. But, yeah, you get really good at those things. And just to have the variety. But the, the positive side, like on the other spectrum for public accounting, right. Sometimes the, the, the pros there is, hey, you. I feel like there's a lot more flexibility here. There's so much, like you said, resources, development, mentorship, wealth of, uh, exposure to different clients. Right. If you want to work on specific industries. I know people that, hey, I'm in wealth asset management, but I want to do capital markets and banking. I want to do technology. You have those different segments. Another pro is, hey, I want to go work international. Every large five. Like, if you're a big five firm and larger, you have international presence. If you want to wake up and say, I want to go to London, I want to go to Singapore, there's a high probability you could transfer to that office and work over there. So it's endless, right, that you have when you work in public, there's just the upside of the good definitely outweighs the bad. To me, the negative that you always hear is, hey, you're working a lot, you're overworked and so forth from that perspective. But I think if you balance the two, I think the good definitely outweighs the bad when it comes to public.

Speaker B: I know people talk a lot about, uh, working hours in public accounting. And, um, I always tell people that, yes, you work a lot when you are lower staff, but when you move up, your working hours will be different. You may not work a lot on preparing the tax return, but you will have more time communicating with the client, face with the client, or, like, manage the group. And so, with all that experience, it's just different hats. You just wear different hats at different level in public accounting. Uh, you mentioned about traveling, you mentioned about different countries like Singapore. So that beauty is more for medium size to bigger firm. Is that why when you go to public accounting, you want to go with a big size firm instead of going with a smaller size firm?