Deloitte US CEO Jason Girzadas on The Feedback Formula: 3 Things Every Leader Must Consider

Speaker A: For many executives, their best leadership training didn't come in business school. It came from the fields, the courts, the locker rooms of their high school and collegiate sports teams. Welcome to the Corporate Competitor podcast presented by Forbes Books, where we dive into those sports enabled lessons. Sparked by ESPN's research showing that 94% of women in the C suite played sports, we launched this show and since then, more than 250 men and women, including the CEOs of Bank of America, Delta Chick Fil A leaders like Condoleezza Rice, they've all stepped in to share how the lessons they've learned from sports translate into their business leadership. And those conversations have now been heard more than 2 million times. Don I'm your host, Don Yeager. And we're back with new episodes bringing you authentic fireside style conversations with leaders in partnership with Chief Executive magazine designed to help you be better every day. With me for today's episode is Jason Gurzadis, CEO of Deloitte us. Jason. Jason spent more than three decades at Deloitte helping his many clients navigate large scale strategic and technology driven change across all kinds of industries, including healthcare and life sciences. Now. But along the way, he also built a reputation as an enormously thoughtful leader, um, who is passionate about helping both his clients and his colleagues reach their full potential. Uh, today I'm excited to dive into how sports, especially golf, he's a heck of a golfer. Has shaped his leadership. Now, if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment with your favorite takeaway from today's conversation. And we're going to pick one to feature on an upcoming episode.

Speaker B: In that moment, the coach would say to me, you know how to do this. I don't want you to be thinking about who's in the stands. I want you to think about being in the moment right now and you know, trusting your training, trusting your, your competitiveness. And throw the best pitch you can when you know your mind is elsewhere. Uh, right. You're thinking about what's going to happen after what could go wrong. Mostly what could go wrong, not about what could go right. And just sort of creating a focus in the moment.

Speaker A: Jason, thanks for joining us.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. It's great to be here and be with you.

Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. Well, you know, you and I had the chance to meet at the Masters, a pretty good place to kind of meet people. Um, and I loved our conversation about you and leadership of 181-year-old brand. Um, it's a rare opportunity obviously to get, to get a role like that. But when you walk into work each day. Does that history, does it feel more like a responsibility or a tailwind?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's both, obviously. Um, I, it's mostly a tailwind though. I mean I, I feel, I feel the, the organization's resilience, the organization's success over you know, so many different uh, cycles of change and innovations and economic swings and peaks and valleys is, is a reassurance, but it's also um, a capability set. It's a confidence, it's, it's a sense of momentum, uh, it's a sense of responsibility. And I think all that's really important for a large organization to have. You know, we're not a, we're not a startup in the sense of, you know, a de novo organization that is trying to establish itself. Our brand stands for a lot, uh, of really powerful and good attributes and, and I think that's also a reminder, that's also an expectation for excellence that um, you mentioned the Masters. I mean I think, I think, I think Deloitte is a manifestation of excellence in her own way. And so that is a responsibility. But to me it's really um, ah, a way to catapult us through days where you feel uncertain and days when you feel a sense of unease. Gives you a sense of confidence that we'll, we'll navigate this too is, and

Speaker A: maybe AI is the answer, but is there, is there something happening right now, um, where that sense of confidence, where that, that sense of pride, um, gives you the belief, you know, gives you the belief system that, that, that, that we're going to end up on the other side of this and we're going to end up better. Yeah.

Speaker B: I think, I think today there's the challenge that there are many things that are happening concurrently. Uh, we, we all are living in the age of AI. That's certainly a big uh, driver of uncertainty. I mean there's lots of speculation about what that will bring and we're all experiencing it in real time. But it's not just that. I think there's economic uncertainty, there's geopolitical uncertainty, oh my gosh, there's you know, regulatory change. These are all things that impact us. I think the uh, the whole definition of work, the whole trust of organizations and business like these are all the, the issues of the day that will cause individuals and organizations to have a sense of uncertainty or uh, unease about their role and their success. I would say though that while we have confidence and I think we've navigated 180 years plus of change I'm not of the mind that continued success is preordained. So confidence doesn't mean that you can become complacent. And I in my capacity talk about that a lot. I mean I get to ask the question a lot down around sort of what, what is the greatest risk in this environment? And, and I think it is being complacent. I think that, that organizations and individuals have a massive responsibility to, you know, keep an edge, to keep, keep performing at a level that um, creates that success. So you know, it is, it is because we've demonstrated that ability more so than just by virtue of our past successes that, that I think I'm confident mostly about the future.

Speaker A: You know, I had the conversation about complacency with Nick Saban when his teams were winning, you know, 12 games in a national championship. It felt like almost every year. And he had a great line that I'd love to ask you about. He said, you know, the hardest thing to do as a leader is to convince the well fed that they are still hungry. Uh, and I'm wondering how do you do that? How do you, you've got. How if complacency is a potential challenge for you, well, a definite challenge for you, how do you as leader convince those who can look and say ah, uh, we've been here 180 years, we'll be here for 180 years more.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, how do you convince them that that's not a guarantee and that, and that, that they have to remain hungry?

Speaker B: It's not easy to do. I think, I think my approach has been to hold up a mirror or hold up uh, a lens if you will, to what the market is doing and what competitors are doing. It is to constantly be bringing an outside in perspective that doesn't uh, allow you to become blase or overconfident about what is expected. I think, I uh, think. I think that's critically important. I mean one of, one of my mantras or one of my calls to action in my capacity is to be as client centric as possible. And I think that is a way that keeps you humble. It keeps you realizing that everyone is competing for uh, our clients attention or clients uh, focus. Uh, you know, you have to earn the right to, to be at the table. And um, and I, so I think, I think that's vital. And, and I think keeping that challenge in front of our leaders has been uh, my approach to try, trying to create that level of hunger, uh, to persist. I think the other thing though is also a sense of Obligation or responsibility to the next generation too.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And so we're a private partnership. Deloitte is very proud, long history of a private partnership. We're all about creating the next generation of leaders. And I think there's an obligation for this generation to leave the firm in a better place for the next generation. And so those are two powerful influences or calls to action that, that I uh, try to keep the well fed reminded of. As you say.

Speaker A: There you go. Where's Nick? Davis said, as Nick said. Well, it's a, I always think of that line though. And I think, man, that's really true. We know, um, I mean he also had another great line. He said the greatest predictor of failure is success. Right. That if we, you know, it's the, it's this idea that we've had success and, and, and as a result we'll get complacent. We start, we stop doing the things that we did last year and, and um, and pretty soon, you know, failure becomes our partner. And that's not a but, but it's based on complacency.

Speaker B: Well, I think the other thing that from an organization's perspective that is germane to, to, to Coach Saban's point is we're always trying to transform. I mean that, that can maybe in some, some ways is cliche but, but, but the whole intent of having a continuous improvement agenda, a uh, transformation agenda as an organization is to say to the organization that you can't stand still. You just, you can't. You have to. What the recipe for success, future success is not the same as the, you know, the historic recipe. And, and that, that is, I think that's the job frankly. I think, I think that's what I've been asked to do and I think that's what's required of, of leadership today. This is an incredible organization. Are other long standing, incredible organization. But to fight commoditization, to fight complacency, to, to fight becoming um, uh, out innovated or you know, outperformed. You have to uh, put up a new challenge and, and be realistic about others that, that can usurp your leadership. Right. So these are, these are the responsibilities of leadership.

Speaker A: I think having a continuous improvement agenda, like I love that and I, I assume as CEO, uh, as leader, you, you are the guy that, that, that helps that agenda not just take, be set, but, but also you create the pathway for that agenda to be um, to be delivered upon.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean it's, it's what the job is.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I mean I think it is having clarity, uh, about the current state and the future state. I mean, there's a lot of complication to management, there's a lot of complication to organizations. But it's fundamentally, for me it's always been about current state and future state and then how do you cross the gap? And so I think the first obligation of leadership is to be clear about a future state, a definition of a future state. Uh, I know we're never going to get that quite right. There's too many variables at play. But you have to have a sense of where you're wanting to go, needing to go. And you also have to have realism about where you're at. And then there's a gap. And the question is, how do you get from current state to future state? And that's true for how we then communicate, it's true for how we then organize around that. It's all about crossing that gap from current to future state. And, and then constantly iterating.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And you're never static on that. Um, and I think that's true for any team, frankly. And it's true for a business team certainly in my experience.

Speaker A: Was there a moment where this idea of you using heart as a leader, um, really took hold for you when you saw that your ability to both share some of yourself, learn more of others, um, really made a difference in the way, in the outcome of something you were attempting to deliver?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think when one goes through, uh, the formal processes of being considered to be a CEO and being asked to play the role, it forces a lot of introspection and a lot of self reflection on, uh, how you show up. And you know, I, I had a moment when I was going through the process and you know, I've been, I've been married for 28 years and my wife is my best friend and I have, you know, been, been seeking her counsel, you know, ever since she was in my life, you know, over 30 years ago. But I, I think, you know, there was a moment where he sort of agreed with each other that, you know, if we're going to go through this and do this, that the best way to do is just to be yourself. And, and I think I must have said something or been, you know, asked to present or, you know, be a part of some formal discussion. And I, I maybe was trying to be something that I thought, you know, I, I needed to be versus being myself. And, and I think it was someone like took my wife, you know, and her intuition and instincts to, to Call me on it. And, And I think I, I think, um, when that happens, and it was kind of a light bulb went off for me. It was. It's like, I, I'm. It's too, too exhausting to be somebody else, so I might as well be myself. And, and that was liberating. And I say that now to, to new, to, to leaders going through their own journey saying, you know, one way or other, you need to know yourself so you can then be yourself. And I think that's the best advice I can give.

Speaker A: Know yourself so you can be yourself. Wow. That is uh, that's actually. I mean, there's, there's, there's true gold there. That's pretty powerful because, again, as you said, most people are trying to figure out what does the world expect of me or what does this moment expect of me? And, um, how do I need to show up? And as, um, you said, it's a whole lot easier if the answer to that question is as I'm going to show up as me. And, um, uh, yeah, no, you got

Speaker B: to do the work to know yourself. And, And I think I had the benefit of being put through lots of experiences where you realize sort of.

Speaker A: And a wife who would tell you

Speaker B: and, and to be fortunate and blessed to have a wife who will tell you, but, but, or, or someone else in your life. But, but yeah, I think, I think that's a prerequisite because otherwise, uh, you're. You're reading books or you're, you know, trying. Trying to emulate others. And, you know, quite honestly, that's a recipe for disaster, in my view, because you, you'll never keep it straight. You know, you'll, you'll, you'll think, well, I, this is, I, uh, this is the, this is the pro forma way I should do this, or, you know, the way the academics say I should do that. And I mean, you have to still learn and evolve. I mean, I'm still learning and evolving, but there's a honesty and I think a sense of comfort with, okay, you know, this is, this is who I am. This is how I'm going to show up in this moment.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker B: And, you know, I think you find. You find ways to relearn that lesson a lot.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, um, you and I have talked about this, uh, the idea that sports is actually a really great metaphor for a lot of things. Um, can you share an athletic experience in your journey, your career, whether it's at golf or wherever it might be that influence the competitor you are Today in business.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. I mean I, I grew up playing all sports. You know, it was what we did for fun. It's uh, I grew up on the south side of Chicago. I had sixth of nine children, so we had our own baseball team amongst my siblings and we used to, we used to, I lived on a, the, the back of a small community, uh, college and they, we used to cut the baseball field out of the grass in the summertime because they would let the grass grow high and so we would, we would go cut, you know, our own baseball field out of the grass and play Wiffle ball till, you know, 10 o' clock at night and you know, played every sport, played football, golf, basketball, baseball. So, um, you know, it's what I loved and, and for a long time, you know, wanted to continue to pursue it and until you realize you're not good enough to pursue it. Right.

Speaker A: So, um, but I, there's always that day, that wake up day.

Speaker B: Absolutely. So I enjoyed all that for as long as I could do it. Um, but look, I think I was a part of great teams and you know, also had powerful coaches, you know, who also got more out of me than I thought I could get out of myself. And I think those are the experience. I learned though, something probably mostly from sports and in my coaching. I coached all my kids in sports and I think those experiences also were really powerful for me. Where you're also just trying to bring out the best in individual members of a team and for young children, you're just trying to also help them love the game. I mean, not all of them are going to continue to play sports and you know, competitively or, you know, more advanced levels. But you're just having them try to enjoy the experience, enjoy, you know, having some success or just enjoy being a part of a team. So those, those experiences I think, um, have certainly carried, carried through for me in business. I mean, when I think about building an executive team, I'm, I'm thinking about not just, you know, who's best in a given role, but how they're going to show up as part of the group, you know, who's going to bring energy, who's got, who's got sort of an X factor, who, who can you count on through, you know, good days and bad days. And you know, another way you also need people who can hit a grand slam and you know, people who can, you know, drive at 350 yards. Right, you mean, so you need, you need a mix of capabilities and you also need to find the chemistry of a team. And I think a lot of that for me instinctually came from playing sports. I also know the kind of coaches I like to play with and for. And I think that's influenced me, you know, how you can be, you know, just incredibly demanding and difficult on players and they shut down to, you know, being a player coach model, which is a, um, metaphor I've used a lot. I mean, I, I, maybe I'm too much of a player coach sometimes. And uh, at other times you realize you, you know, you just got to let the players play. And, and, and so those are the types of things I think that are very applicable. The other thing I've learned more, you know, in life and I actually did not appreciate this, you know, when I was in active my, myself in sports was how do you like, prepare as an athlete to be at your very best? And you know, that discipline. I, I didn't do that. And I think that actually, you know, limited my sports career.

Speaker A: It's amazing how much more quickly sports careers can end when you don't do that.

Speaker B: Well, totally. And I, I didn't even have the thought of taking that stuff seriously. And now I see because, uh, you know, some of our association with athletes and being around athletes at a high level is, is, you see just the level of excellence and precision and focus and intentionality and intensity to do what they do. And I think that also is pertinent to being a business athlete. You know, uh, at a high level. I mean, I spend more time now preparing myself for my having the energy to do all the things that I need to do that I think is more analogous to athlete than I ever thought I would do. Um, I mean, I'm maniacal about, I'm maniacal about my own energy levels. And I think that that's something that is direct relationship to understanding what athletes go through.

Speaker A: You, you opened that answer by saying, I think back to coaches who got more out of me than I might have ever gotten out of myself. Is there a, is there a coach you think of? Is there a coach, a memory of a, of a coach in a moment, um, when that was true for you.

Speaker B: I, I love baseball. I love, I love the challenge of it. Um, there's so many beautiful parts of the game that I appreciate to this day. And, and so I had a lot of success as a, uh, you know, little leaguer and to, you know, your adolescence and, and, and then I wanted to play in high school and I went to a very large, you know, all boys high school in Chicago and It was very competitive and, and I realized, you know, well, I'm not the only one who's good at this, you know, and, and, and, and so you immediately get confronted with this reality of okay, well, you know, I'm not the only one who's like, you know, misty eyed about baseball here. There's a lot of guys who can really play. And, and, and so I had coaches then in high school who I think at, at, at, at a level where they were honest with me about you need to be in better shape. You, you, you have this uh, gap in your game. If you want to continue to play at the next level, you know, you're going to have to demonstrate a different level of commitment to, you know, learning to throw different pitches or your fitness levels in terms of, you know, stamina to play. These, these things where you get, unlike what a parent can tell you or a, uh, sibling or something like that, you know, an adult who's very knowledgeable and can be candid and balanced to give you that kind of feedback. So I think I was lucky enough to have that experience and it was done in a loving way, in a benevolent way that I was able to process it and absorb some of it and they allowed me to have some success at that level. Um, and so I think it's that objectivity, it's that tough love. It's a sense of, uh, caring but also challenging one self. That is what I'm getting at when I say coaches, ah, that can get more out of you than, you know. And, and then I think also then being honest with you about that you're not ready to go to the next level or, you know, you're not going to be successful at the next level, you might as well focus on other things, you know, and in that case it was, you know, being, being really good in school and you know, taking on other interests like pivoting into golf and things like that. So I, I'm very grateful for those experiences. I'm grateful for the tough love. In retrospect, it wasn't always fun in the moment. Um, and I think also the honesty about when it was right to pivot to other things.

Speaker A: I'm assuming that, that some of those are things that you as leader, um, uh, deliver, uh, to your team today. Right. There are times when in some ways were the roots of what you're able to do today founded back on those baseball fields?

Speaker B: Absolutely. I think having, having real conversations with people, one of the, one of the real gaps in professional, uh, settings I have found is A uh, uh, uh, lack of true professional feedback. So real actionable feedback for adults is uncomfortable and difficult. And we've as a firm invested in pheromone and um, professional development experiences for leaders that's aimed at actually addressing this feedback gap. But the feedback that I'm describing, this sort of tough love approach is where you are unemotionally giving factual observations about a situation. So uh, you know, I, I observed this. What, what it, the impact of what I observed was this. And here is my suggested feedback for you on how you action it or options you have to action it. And that type of feedback process I think happens in sports at a more meaningful level. Um, that maybe happens in a professional setting. And so I think this, this idea of a feedback loop and real life actionable, uh, feedback is something that can really set organizations apart and I think can be something that really unlocks the next level of growth for individuals. So I actually think that's a very tangible example of something that I've learned and experienced in prior, you know, sporting settings. But also I've learned furthermore is a gap in a professional, uh, adult settings that I'm, I'm actively always trying to emulate and, and, and I think it can be really powerful for the individuals, you know, done in a constructive way and, and done in a way that is in their best interest with, with the organization's best interest as well. And so that's one example.

Speaker A: Don, um, is there a moment of you on the mound when uh, a coach had to come out and give you some feedback that you can remember? Of course. Share a story.

Speaker B: I can remember a tight game against the rival and all your friends and family are there watching and you know you're uh, feeling pretty lonely out there and you know, bases are, bases are loaded and you know you're up by one and you got to get one person out, you know, you gotta get one guy out. And, and um, and so uh, when, when the coach comes out to the mound and you're, and, and your um, mind is racing, uh, and you know, you're trying to just go back to basics. Uh, and I remember that moment when you know, he sends the catcher to go back to home plate and it just wants to be there talking to you. And you know, he, in that moment, the coach would say to me, you know, look, you know how to do this. I don't, you know, want you to be thinking about who's in the stands. I want you to think about being in the moment right now and you know, trusting your Training, trusting your, your competitiveness and throw the best pitch you can when you know your mind is elsewhere. Right? Uh, you're thinking about what's going to happen after what could go wrong. Mostly what could go wrong, not about what could go right and, and sort of creating a focus in the moment. And so that, that also is, is something that's pertinent in adult life and outside of sports is how do you slow things down? How do you. And I, I, I, I'm amazed at how professional athletes do this and in very stressful moments, more so than, like high school sports, believe me. I mean, I'm not trying to equate my sporting experiences to what, you know, elite athletes do at the professional level, but this, the same concept of slowing things down, being mindful of your breathing, being mindful of your heart rate and just trying to act and perform the best in the moment. And I've had many instances when I've been in a boardroom or in intense meetings and I've been able to sort of go back to my breath and go back to my heart rate and closing your eyes for a moment in a way that allows you to be there and this idea of being present. So I think those moments, um, I underappreciate it. I have a vivid memory of that happening in sport for me, as I mentioned on the mound. But it's more important in life and I think it's a super important skill that kids of all types have got to learn to do.

Speaker A: I think adults can, well, adults of all types need to learn to do. You know, um, you used a great line. You talk about feedback. Um, uh, you're right. I mean, it's a lost art. And it's both giving it and accepting it are lost arts. And I think in our professional world today, um, we have a phrase in our building, in our office. Feedback is the breakfast of champions. And champions eat breakfast. Right? So seek it, ask for it, try to get it. But, but how do you, um, uh, is there a, is there a, is there something you do specifically to help give people feedback?

Speaker B: Well, I think the, the first thing is, is that it's not ever received if done in front of peers or if done in a sort of an embarrassing way, that that's a mistake. And I, I see that a lot. I think that there's, um, there's a time and a place and I think for it to be received to your point, it's gotta be done in a, in a very, uh, thoughtful way, but it has to be done timely. And it has to be done directly. So there, there's, there's a practice that I will do which is, you know, calling people or seeing them immediately after I've observed something or experienced something that, that has been powerful. And I've had lots and lots of experiences doing that. I've never seen it work with humiliating someone in front of a group. I mean that, that is unfortunately kind of a, again, a kind of a cliche movie depiction of management. But, but in reality that's not a recipe for success. I think the other thing is we have lots of processes around performance feedback. But for individuals of senior leaders to give them a thoughtful summary of uh, what you've observed and actionable feedback, quite honestly is rare. And I think what I have found is the act of just doing that and making that a priority for me and my official capacity or my, my, my role capacity is incredibly important. And then it compels the rest of the team for them themselves to do that with their own people. So there's a domino effect that occurs by doing that. So I, I'm, it's, it's a big part of my behavior with my own leaders and the most senior leadership team to, to do that with them. Uh, and then I create the expectation where they do it for their, their teams as well. And, and this is something where, you know, if you're not going to do it yourself as a CEO, then you can't expect anyone else to do it.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: And, and I think that's, that's really the, the takeaway. I mean you have to, you have to live the change you want. You have to model the change you want. And I, I, I feel like this is amongst the most important things culturally that, that we can do.

Speaker A: I love it. It's so true. Um, you know, you've also made a couple of references to the concept of storytelling. Right. The importance of being able organizationally and individually, um, to tell stories in a way that helps ah, shape behavior. Right. And actually um, create vision. I've been doing a lot of work lately around this concept of storytelling. I have a book coming out this fall on it and I love to ask you, um, what role has storytelling played in your career and your leadership journey?

Speaker B: I think it's a big part of our firm's um, culture when you've been around for 180 years and you have this very deep, uh, sense of ownership, deep sense of legacy in terms of generational, uh, uh, change and handing one, um, having, uh, handing the firm, in our case from one generation to the next. A lot of that gets conveyed through storytelling and the behaviors of certain individuals. Um, uh, mostly good, but also good and maybe less good in terms of what you want to emulate and the legacy and the power of that. And so I think that's powerful, and I think that's been a big part of, um, my experience and I think shaped me as well. And so when I think about the power of storytelling, it is to give like, the. The current generation confidence that we've seen some of these things before. Like you mentioned earlier, the age of AI. So we're living through, uh, uh, uh, a radical sense of change. But we've also lived through, you know, the cloud era, in the mobile era, and pivot to the. To the Internet. And we live through other financial crises and. And the firm has, you know, um, persevered. So, um, I think the power of story is to give confidence that, yes, this is challenging, but it's not unique or it's not unprecedented. And so that gives the current leadership team, I think, a sense of confidence. There also is a huge sense of motivation to emulate and. And also respect the traditions of the firm. You know, we're. We're, uh, a firm where, you know, we are, um, uh, benefiting from what others have given to us and so honoring those legacies and the stories of sacrifice, the stories of pioneering new businesses and new offerings. M. Has been powerful to then motivate us to say, well, what could we do? What is our contribution? Right. So I think it is one part, um, instilling that confidence and navigating the change. It's also to create ambition for what's to come. And I think those are incredibly powerful, uh, examples in an organization like ours where you really need to, um, uh, find sources of that inspiration, find sources for motivation and. And I think, you know, storytelling is a big part of that.

Speaker A: You know, Tom Izzo at Michigan State loves to talk, uh, about, um, the history and some of the history, the players who have played there in the past. But he always ends those stories when he's talking to his current team by saying, you know, don't cheat the bloodlines. Right. The. The bloodlines that have. That have made this available for you today. Don't cheat them. Respect them. Understand who they are. I love that. Right. The story allows you to connect to your past and inspire you for the future.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I also think that those bloodlines also expect you to make it better. Right. So it's not like you have to be beholden to all the things that Happen, uh, or not change. There's some of that. Like, people say, well, you know, the way you're organized or the way you define your brand should never change in order to not cheat the bloodline. But I actually think the prior generations also expect you to have the firm persist and thrive into the future. Right. So there's a bit of also, I think, a challenge that goes with. What is your role going to be? To strengthen the legacy, strengthen the firm.

Speaker A: Pretty cool. It's amazing. And, um, I enjoyed our conversation then. Loved our conversation today. Um, Jason, I cannot thank you enough for being a corporate competitor with us today.

Speaker B: Well, thank you for having me. It's been a real joy to speak with you, though. Take care now.

Speaker A: All right. Now you know why it took me a full year after that time with Jason at the Masters to, to. To find a way to pull this conversation together. But, man, I have to tell you, worth every minute of weight. Um, he is, uh, an extraordinary leader. It was evident over dinner. Evident even more so today. Um, I had a handful of really amazing takeaways from today's conversation. The first, um, I love that idea that, you know, here he is navigating a brand that's been around since before the Civil War, crazy as that is. But, um, in order to be successful, doesn't matter how long your brand's been around, how long your company's been around, um, you have to have a continuous improvement agenda. How will we become better tomorrow, next year, the year after that? What is our continuous improvement agenda? What does that look like for you? I loved his line when he talked about that. As a leader, his most important role is to understand fully what current state we're in and what the future state looks like and how he's going to close that gap. So that ability to do those things, completely game changing as a leader. And it's why brands like Deloitte can stay around for 181 years. My second real great takeaway. My gosh. I loved the conversation around feedback and what a lost art it is both in giving and receiving it. Um, but what a great. The conversation started with a little bit of his discussion around his high school baseball coach. Right? The coach who actually walks out and says, yeah, I understand you're worried about what's going to happen afterward, what's going to, you know, who's in the stands. Don't focus on that. Focus on the moment. Right. And the ability to deliver that feedback in a way that gave Jason, um, confidence. Big deal. Big deal. But then I love it like later in life, here he is about ready. He's working to become CEO, uh, at one of the great organizations, great companies of all time. And his own wife gives him some feedback about the importance of, um, of being himself. Right? And uh, then he had that great line that, you know, if you can, when you learn to be, to, to be yourself, it's liberating, right? It allows you to, you're no longer worried about what you have to remember. And he loved his, his, his advice, you know, uh, you have to know yourself so you can be yourself. Um, boy, I'm scribbling that one down. That one's on a, on a sticky note, uh, here in my office. I promise that. Um, but, but when giving feedback, yeah, that great, that great little model, right. Make sure it's directly not done in front of other people. Make sure it's timely. Don't wait till an annual review to give the feedback you should give today. Um, make sure it's thoughtful and that it's not just about here's what you did wrong, but it's instructive as well. So good feedback includes those things. Don't humiliate anyone in the process of doing it. Um, and then, and then when you deliver it thoughtfully, um, what you'll find is that uh, as a leader, as you deliver feedback, um, those who work with you and for you start seeing the importance of that. And we'll do the same for their direct reports. So really amazing things happen when that comes to be. My third great takeaway was about how he built his executive team and something he learned from sports that helped him do that. Right. This idea that he needed a team that, that uh, allowed him the ability to navigate and do great things. And what that meant is that he wasn't just looking for talent on the team. He was looking for people who might bring the energy. Somebody who's uh, an energy, somebody who's um, open and great in conversation, he might look for, but he still wants that person that can hit the home run, right? He wants that super talented person. Um, and then the key to all of it is creating that chemistry, that team chemistry that will, that will work very, very baseball team like approach, uh, to the way he built his own executive team and really meaningful. Ah, then finally I loved his discussion around storytelling, the importance of storytelling, especially in an organization with the history of Deloitte.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Since storytelling helps tell people, um, if you, you know, especially in times when, when the world is, seems to be turning upside down, um, like you said in AI, um, we can talk about AI, but we can also talk about the fact that we've been there before, we've been through the cloud and we've been through all these other technology driven changes to our environment. Um, you know, we've seen this challenge before and he, he said that using stories allows you to convince others that, that um, that the, the past will help them have confidence about what is, uh, what's ahead for them in the future. So, um, it may m be challenging, as he said, but it's not unprecedented. A good story will help your team understand that. Um, before I wrap up, I do want to give a shout out to Laura Payne. See, Laura left us, uh, Laura left the nicest note after listening to our episode with Dutch Brothers CEO Christine Barone. Um, and how Christine's analogy about the zone of discomfort and leaning into that, uh, leaning into what scares you encouraged Laura. So thank you Laura and I appreciate you uh, you offering that comment. And if you're listening today, uh, others and you've got a comment about what you learned from Jason in this, please put it in the chat, put it in the, put it in the comments section so that we can, I can learn from you and maybe shout you out as well. Um, once again, I'm a better leader today because I got this conversation. I hope you are too. I appreciate you. Before we sign off, is there someone you would love to learn from as a guest on this show? Send me a LinkedIn message with your guest suggestion. It is even better if you're connected with them, um, in some way. We'll do that interview. We'll learn from them and we'll share the answers with you. Catch new episodes every Wednesday. Subscribe@corporatecompetitorpodcast.com to be the first to get a chance to listen. And as a thank you gift, I will send you a chapter from one of my best selling books. Stay connected with me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. My handle is donjaeger. D O N Y A E G E R and until next week, I appreciate you.