S23 Ep11: Conversations of Inspiration: 2025 year in review

Speaker A: It's that time of year again. My most favorite moment. In fact, speaking to you right now has become a personal milestone marker in my year. So thank you for sharing some of your precious time with me today.

Speaker B: Bow your head and let your eyelids

Speaker A: close on down where we're going you

Speaker C: won't need to bring your frown.

Speaker A: Hi, I'm Holly Tucker and welcome to my podcast Conversations of Inspiration. I've reached out to founders and those who simply inspire me to share their

Speaker D: hard earned wisdom system with you.

Speaker A: My hope is that collectively these remarkable realizations will help you on your own journey. I like to think of it as inspiration for life. So let's begin this week's conversation of inspiration. I don't know about your year and what it's been like, but it's been a big year for me personally. As you'll know, I'll always describe this journey of building a business like a roller coaster. And I have to say this year has been most certainly that. I've experienced some huge highs. This summer will forever remain a career highlight for me as I traveled up and down the country for my first ever TV series, Be youe Own Boss. I mean, I can't quite believe I'm saying that. I met the most kind hearted, hard working founders who opened their front doors and welcomed me in, cooked up lunches and shed tears and shared truly special moments with and I didn't really quite know what to expect before filming, but it exceeded my expectations in every way. I also don't think I've laughed so much or had such deep conversations as I did on those long car journeys traveling the UK over the summer. All of it will be moments that I'll treasure. On the flip side, there have been moments throughout the year when I really questioned my own path. I think there might be a perception that the issue of cash isn't a priority when you're 20 years in. And I can assure you it very much is. And certainly as you launch a business in this economic climate. And so if you've had a tough old year, I promise you, you're not alone. But my experience tells me that if we can all just hold on, if we can get through this, our businesses will come out stronger, leaner and ready for all the opportunities that present themselves. By going through all of this, I know it will make you a brand, a, uh, business, a person who lasts into the future. With that in mind, as I reflect on how to define my own year, and I would say it is one that has been all about connection. My natural Happy place. And I fully admit this is with the team in the business, making plans, asking why, exploring new ways to do things, digging into the data, getting under the hood of the bonnet, so to speak. But this year, both the highs and the lows have sent me mostly off

Speaker D: the Holly and Co island office and

Speaker A: into the world to connect. It has been a revelation, the beauty of meeting new people, hearing other views, drinking in other people's expertise, following the trail that they might lead me to. It has been game changing for myself and the company and has opened up new opportunities and avenues to explore. And I plan to really take stock of this and continue to fuel the

Speaker D: power of connection into 2026 and beyond.

Speaker A: I might even be a changed it is perhaps why this podcast remains one of the greatest gifts that Holly and

Speaker D: company has given me.

Speaker A: A whole hour to delve into the world outside of my own business, uncover the hard earned wisdom, explore other people's outlooks on business and on life. And I truly believe this podcast has been my own MBA in business. And I hope it's impacted you as much as it has me. This is then the perfect moment to reintroduce my first guest to this episode, the incredible Thea Green, the founder of Nails Inc. She shared her journey with such openness, enthusiasm, and it was a brilliant tale of a founder led brand making it big, but with the humility, kindness and fun that in the age of Instagram billionaires, telling us how they made it overnight is perhaps a breath of fresh air. I hadn't met Thea properly prior to this conversation and we hit it off immediately. And as such, this podcast has been my own source of learning. It has also been such a valuable way for me to connect with brilliant founders who I may never have crossed paths with. And they mostly become friends. I'm acutely aware that the founder journey can be a lonely one. So if you're listening today, I'm, um, here to remind you that you're far from alone and I'm with you, Thea is with you and all the other listeners to this very podcast are, um, right behind you.

Speaker D: So you had this light bulb moment seeing that lots of American women had manicures and uh, that in the UK

Speaker A: you just can't even imagine this now

Speaker D: when we look at our high streets and what nails are on our high streets along with estate agents and coffee shops.

Speaker A: But it was 1999 and you were

Speaker D: just 23 years old, which is obviously very young to be revolutionizing an industry.

Speaker A: Not that you sort of probably even

Speaker D: looked at it like that. You just had a great idea and you were going for it.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker D: And you teamed up with your co founder at the time and together you raised 250,000 to start the business. You find your first store, as you said, in South Moulton street and your goal was to create a sweet shop of color.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker D: And you decided to take what you'd seen but do it a lot better.

Speaker E: Yes.

Speaker A: What were those early days?

Speaker D: Those scrappy early days like, um, actually amazing.

Speaker E: I think we were talking about, you know, when you do a business again. You know, I think what's amazing like that first time round is you're so open to everything and you're just a sponge, aren't you? You're just ready to learn from everybody because you really know, like, I mean, I knew less than nothing about everything. I mean, honestly, my knowled was just awful on everything, you know, so. But you, you just learn really fast because it's yours. Right. And you're so. You've got so much skin in the

Speaker A: game, like being a mother.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker E: It's very similar.

Speaker D: I always use the analogy that it's our business, babies. I mean, you give give birth and

Speaker A: then they go over to you.

Speaker F: Correct.

Speaker D: Like, are you joking?

Speaker E: Yeah. I've never done this before.

Speaker D: What are you talking about? Do you feed it through this same analogy?

Speaker E: It's so right. It's such a brilliant analogy. And it really was our first born, wasn't it? It's our first baby.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker E: And yeah, you know, you learn about fundraising, manufacturing, warehousing. I mean, even if you've got your head around the basics, I would say, of course I knew I was going to, you know, I was, you know, I was right person.

Speaker G: Yeah.

Speaker E: I knew I was going to be fundraising, manufacturing. I don't think I'd ever really thought about warehousing. Like, I feel like that was probably missing from my life, you know.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker E: Really big things that you have to do as a business that, uh, you know, are uh, hugely important to your business, the logistics side of things. But I don't think I really thought about shipping product internationally and ingredients and regulations, like all of that, like just wallops you one day where you're like, oh, regulations. Today's regulations day.

Speaker A: Today is learned everything about now be my every waking thought for the next year.

Speaker D: This isn't sexy. This isn't really what I signed up to do.

Speaker E: Correct.

Speaker D: I mean, along with that, you. I'm imagining that you knew uh, absolutely little about manufacturing as well.

Speaker E: Yes.

Speaker D: And the side of nail polish and Actually, only when thinking about this interview did I think, uh, what is nail polish? I mean, I didn't even. It's probably. It's quite complicated.

Speaker E: It's a. It's a complicated chemical formula and I'm not a chemist.

Speaker A: Again, that little missing point.

Speaker D: I mean, that is, isn't it? Yeah.

Speaker A: That's where our, uh, naivety, which I think you see as well, it's the best thing.

Speaker D: It is the best thing. Anyone out there thinking about starting something. I say it all the time on this podcast. Please do not look at your naivety as a curse. It's going to lead you to do things that all of. All of anyone else would just be too scared to do.

Speaker E: Yes. And actually, you know, the first time. And you also really think you're invincible.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker E: And you haven't been knocked yet. Like, I remember when we first started pitching in department stores, because we very quickly opened department stores.

Speaker D: Oh, I'm going to get to this bit. Yes.

Speaker E: I remember just thinking, what if they turned me. When they turn. You know, when someone turned you down initially, we, you know, got some deals very quickly. I remember thinking, well, they just don't get it. I never thought there was something wrong with me or the business. I just went, well, they just don't understand it. I'll have to just go back again.

Speaker G: Oh, gosh.

Speaker E: To go and do that twice. You know, I have to explain that.

Speaker A: What a waste of time.

Speaker E: Explain that all over again. Okay, I just said yes, that was a bit slow. I'll do it again. I never thought it was like me that presented badly or that the business had a hole in it. I was just, you know, I just thought, well, they just didn't understand it. I'll just have to go and repeat it again.

Speaker A: As I mentioned at the start of this podcast, I've been reflecting on how I define this year. Alongside connection, I'd say it's also been about exploring what the future of our business looks like, or more specifically, what the future of our business looks like with the rise of AI. And I've always shielded away from identifying myself as a tech founder. I suspect this is part because of the box that I was put in during my not in the High street days. And it was a term I felt like a huge imposter, um, around. I have therefore actively shunned and I suppose resisted exploring the idea that Holly and Co is, in a way, a tech business.

Speaker D: But of course it is.

Speaker A: And I've discovered through many of my recent conversations, I need to rewrite that script. In my own mind, in my own heart, tech, or more specifically AI, can have a profoundly positive role within the world. It can positively fuel all of our businesses forward. Does AI provide us with very problematic themes? Absolutely. There's no denying it. And we should be doing all we can to stand up for our fellow creatives. AI cannot and should never be used in place of human creativity. But can we use it as a tool to fuel us, too? Yes. Mo Gordit spoke at the Congregation of Inspiration this year, an event that we held for our COS in London. And it was this exact topic that he covered. How can we harness AI as a powerful tool for our own creative businesses? And crucially, should we shun it or should we embrace it? Mo's view was that, uh, AI is not inherently entirely bad or entirely good, and to view it through such a singular lens would be incorrect. But what he did reiterate is that as creative minds, we should be embracing AI, that it has the capability to fuel our humanness by absorbing elements that slow us down, leaving us to step up into the most creative selves that we can be. And it was the same topic that the fabulous Abby and Rupert from Design and Illustration Studio Ruud spoke about when they joined me earlier this year. Their whole conversation was one that I think will speak to many of the values you as the listener to this podcast hold. This is just a short clip of the brilliant conversation, so I do urge you to listen to the full episode.

Speaker D: To those of you who might not have listened to the podcast with Patrick from Bob and Roberta, I ask you to, because this is beautifully, uh, dovetails with this podcast, which is we were talking about STEM in our education system, science, technology, engineering and mathematics. And he said we should be teaching Steam 100%. Just add the A. Everyone just add the A. Because I think that for whatever reason, creativity is now seen as this sort of standalone thing that's not part of our everyday lives or critical thinking or social skills or, um, building, I don't know, confidence and things that Rob Biddulph and Patrick actively encourage in our children. And we're seeing this mental health crisis. Um, the research supports all of what you're saying, all of what you're saying, because creativity is now no longer there, it's been downgraded. And what this impact is going to have on our younger generations or their careers or their confidence. It's a ripple effect, isn't it? We're sort of. It's only in this podcast, actually. I'm thinking about that my entire schooling was the best bits of it for me were the creative size, creative design and technology art. I had a teacher that allowed me to build one sculpture for the whole of my A level. It was called Tom, Dick and Harry. And it was these three men combined in clay allowed me to work on

Speaker A: it for two years.

Speaker D: And I think about my creative design to technology building the first claim to fame, recycling bin and winning young Engineer of the Year, uh, with this. But I think about these teachers that I had and I think about how I would go in at weekends and they would open up the school for me so that I could just be in the classroom and everything.

Speaker A: That was the whole making of me. And now when you say the facts

Speaker D: that your kid was going to do art, uh, once a month. Yeah, this is abusive.

Speaker H: It's appalling. It is abusive. And I just think that the arts.

Speaker C: Sorry, Rugon, I was just thinking, more than anything, it's this, it's, you know, the people in charge, the politicians want a world without creativity. And when you think of that world without creativity, it's just, you forget that all the amazing things that we have to do with the arts, you know, that are, ah, happening in front of us, from Netflix to, um, going to the, Going to a gallery, going to your local coffee shop or whatever it is, um, has been born from someone that like us, knew that was their path to creating amazing creative businesses. And if you strip that out, I'm sure people will eventually find their way. But we should be encouraging it from an early age because not everyone is good at maths and not everyone is good at STEM subjects.

Speaker H: I think also, like, kids are not told where a podcast comes from or where their shoes come from or where, you know, everything that we do apart from eating is art. It's play, it's art. But we're not, our kids are not, uh, veered in that direction because the arts is still perceived as fine art, for instance. But the arts are all the things that we consume all the time. And even Mo Gadot the other day was saying, you know, with the. On sort of AI, et cetera, the things that are going to be the best things to be in the industry is the creative industries because everyone's going to have more downtime if it goes according to the way that it looks like it's going to go. Everything will be more automated. We'll have more time to do pleasurable things, but also things that really make you stop and think. And I thought that recently with that program adolescent that, that, uh, Stephen Graham did And just the fact that that is a fantastic example of a piece of art that makes everyone think. Yet people don't call it a piece of art, they call it a film. You know, I was in a Wetherspoons garden in Brighton and I heard three different tables talking about this program and I was like, oh, wow. I was like this. We need to show everyone that these are the arts. All these things that we consume all the time are the things that we can do as jobs. And AI, frankly, is, you know, there's no, uh, I don't see why we should be learning rote about Tudors, because, like, we have it all on AI. We need to be thinking of new things that can save our planet and can save our world. And creative thinkers mixed with AI is the future. It isn't learning maths by rote. It's just not.

Speaker A: Abby and Rupert, uh, are such passionate champions of creativity. They joined me following the release of their book Unleash, uh youh Creative Superpowers. Aimed at Year six children. The book is designed to lift the lid on all the creative jobs that are hidden from view, to help inspire a broader outlook on the creative job industry. And you can even buy packs for your school. And this isn't a sales ploy, by the way, but a genuinely creative solution to a systemic issue issue in education. I also mentioned at, ah, the start of this clip, Bob and Roberta Smith, who I interviewed right at the start of this year. He spoke so beautifully about creativity and its place within society. It would be remiss not to include it in this reflective episode simply because I know that this is a topic that really gets to the heart of how so many of us feel.

Speaker D: What makes your work so powerful? It, it is a campaign. It makes us feel something like the

Speaker A: very best way that art does.

Speaker D: And, uh, one of the themes that runs through your work alongside the political and social messages is this sense of playfulness as well, which I think going back to your mum's, what your mum said, you know, it's an invitation because it allows us in. It feels very familiar. I feel like it's a friend of mine, I feel. Do you know what I mean? It has that sense and it has a sense of, I think, hope, hopefulness and optimism. Is that, uh, important for you? Because this subject, I mean, we could do probably an entire podcast on the subject and be quite angry about it. And I want to keep talking to you about it now, but I feel very passionately about it. So I'm going to keep myself together. But it is absolutely horrific what's happening. But your work feels like, like I've got hope within it. Is that again that you're looking to stir emotions but also connect people rather than make them angry?

Speaker B: Uh, well, I, I think it stem, I think that idea of um, I don't know quite how to describe it really, but you know, I'm, you know, it goes back to my parents really because I know that uh, you know, I, I know my family and my sister's families, you know, and everybody that I know in the arts, they, they are evidence of the uh, you know, the positive glue that the arts are in society and uh, and also a route to success, you know, so, so I know uh, from experience that that's the case. I don't want to, I don't particularly want to hang out with Michael Gove. You know, it's really about the issues, not the personalities. You know, they, you know, our current government, who we, I mean, I thought would be a bit more, you know, we get rid of these things overnight. Uh, they haven't done that. And uh, and so we're pushing against them. And a lot of those people are people that I know are more familiar with, but you still have to say to them, you know, you need to do the right thing and all. Also what is happening is that if I want to get angry about it is that we're discriminating against creative kids. That's what we're doing. It's totally stupid, but that's what we're doing. And it's. The labor government are doing it as well. And the conservatives did it in the past. Governments, middle management, all this sort of stuff, they're driven by sorts, uh, of strange ideas about accounting and data. But actually if you thought of the heart of the issue, what we're doing is discriminating against kids and causing them to be unsuccessful and unhappy. It's not what we should be doing. So there is hope, you know, but

Speaker D: when you put it like that, and we talk about discrimination a lot, uh, in society and we're talking about it continuously, so how is that not being seen through that lens? Because you know, that is basically what it is. And if we want, and we're going to get more and more into this, but if we, you know, when we think about the future and we think about, and we're going to touch on AI and we're going to touch on these things in a moment. The point is, is that the humanness in us needs to be up dialed, right? We need to be talking about the very thing that's 1 in 400 trillion chances of you being born. 1 in 400 trillion chances. Every child is a miracle where miracles literally walking the planet. And that miracle was destined for something. All those cells put together in that unique formula that makes you Bob me Holly is what our path is. And so we have to nurture it in your garden. We have to nurture, don't we, the person that this is. And it's discriminating against those children who could go and create the next business. Right. That is going to stand up against AI and everyone's like, oh, no one. You know, humans are literally going to be the 21st century horses. Do you know what I mean? Like, we're maybe not.

Speaker B: Well, it's good that you mentioned the card. I mean, when I was at Chelsea Flower show, which is a mad bad place really. But it's fantastic. But it is interesting to think about classrooms as gardens.

Speaker D: Um, yes.

Speaker B: And if you think of. I don't want to think of kids as plants.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker B: But, you know, we need to nurture every child. And actually, if you think about your garden, it has different requirements, you know.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker B: Different plants need different kinds of nurture. Uh, and, you know, things are for sandy soil. I don't extend this metaphor too far, but, you know, they have sandy soils. Or you might want a bit of johnnyness number three.

Speaker E: Yes.

Speaker B: Whatever it was on your different plants. And we really need to. Some kids, you know, some kids need lots of water and nutrients and some kids need, you know, uh, dry soil or something, you know. But actually, if we thought about it like that and tried to play instead of trying to get them to jump through this one hoop, uh, of perceived academic success. But thought about, actually, we want to create a garden which flourishes where every kid flourishes. That would be a better way. I mean, good teachers do think like that. They do. I mean, I think teachers are kind of human rights work. All teachers, you know, everybody in school is a human rights worker. But we don't want to. I think it's a mistake to pour kids in one direction and, uh, say that is a measure of success, because it isn't. And it makes lots of kids unhappy. It's a measure of. Measure of success to a few. But not everyone. And actually everyone does matter in all our diversity, you know, as I said,

Speaker A: this year has been filled with as many lows as it has highs. The price of being a founder, I suppose. And whilst I live in eternal gratitude and I know that I can't have the highs without the lows. I can't help but admit that I have had a number of moments this year just wondering if a silver bullet might exist. I surely can't be alone as I take a deep breath at my desk and just ask why. Oh, uh, why is this so bloody hard? I'm smiling as I say this, as I'm certain you too maybe had a few of those moments this year. I think because this year has thrown a number of curveballs, I've been looking at the alternative ways to expand my mindset, looking for external sources to fuel my fire. It's where I came across Maya Raichura. I enjoyed her book Visualize immensely and so I was thrilled when she agreed to join me on this podcast. So I hand over this next part to Maya, who shares her view on negative thoughts. Let's just, um, think that my husband is listening. So you would say to counteract negativity

Speaker D: or self doubt or worry that creeps in. It is a daily ritual. It is something such as taking that first moment in the day to change the mindset.

Speaker A: Do you think that anyone can do it?

Speaker D: However old, young, set in your ways?

Speaker A: Leopard doesn't change its spots all the whole thing.

Speaker D: Do you think that we can all

Speaker F: do it a thousand percent? And I've seen 80 year olds do it, I've seen 8 year olds do it. And. And it's one of the most rewarding journeys because our brains are really fascinating in the sense that we have between 40,000 and 60,000 thoughts a day, which is a lot. And some of them are like, oh cool, what am I going to have for breakfast? But some of them are like, oh, I don't feel very good enough or I feel like a bit of an imposter, I don't deserve this success. Or gosh, we're so harsh to ourselves, right? And let's say we make a mistake. It's like, oh, you're so stupid or I'm such a mess right now. And the thing is, negative thoughts in themselves aren't actually that harmful. It's the repeated ones that are harmful because the more you say a certain thing or belief or image, that is what rewires your identity and your personality and essentially your lens of the world. And I have seen time and time again where things like worry, fear, doubt, all of it. Often it's like the misuse of your imagination and where you're directing your brain. And so the great thing is a lot of us have the skill already, especially in visualization. So whenever I'm in A room. And I say to everyone, okay, hands up. If you mentally rehearse worst case scenarios, things going wrong, things failing, honestly, everyone puts their hand up all the time, even the top athletes in the world. And, um, my point to them is I think that's great because you are already doing the skill. You're doing the hard part, which is the visualization. The thing is, you're visualizing the wrong thing because that's what's wiring your brain to feel more anxious and to be like, oh my gosh, where's the danger? So if you started now mentally rehearsing, okay, things may be going a bit better, or you acting more confident, or maybe you achieving your goals, you're going to also start to change the beliefs you have. And the other thing to mention is some people come to me and they're like, Maya, uh, I just want to, I just want to get rid of my negative thoughts. Or like, I don't have any self doubt. And I'm like, great, well, but I'm not the person for that because that is impossible. It's impossible. It's okay if you have negative thoughts and it's okay if you have doubts. The thing is, are you going to choose to believe them and let them dictate how you move forward? That is where the power lies. The thoughts will come, the fears will come, the doubts will come. It's normal. That's where you have to say, one second, am I actually going to believe this or am I going to choose different? And that's where the responsibility comes in. The ability to respond.

Speaker A: Earlier, uh, in the podcast episode, Maya told me about this simple mindset routine she does each morning as she opens her eyes. Without fail, she says to herself, show me how good it gets. The idea that it immediately shifts your brain into looking for all the positives and good things. And I'm only a few weeks in, but my sister and I will text it to each other most mornings. And whilst I do live in gratitude, it actually has been a really positive inclusion in my morning routine. So much so, of course my next thought was, what code could I ask, uh, to help me bring this to life? Is this a piece of, of artwork on Holly and Company? When it comes to your Christmas shopping this year, one of the best things about giving gifts you've bought Horton Holly and company is knowing you can give them with pride. Because not only are they unique, handcrafted and made to last, but they also support a whole community of UK artists and makers by shopping with the small business on our site. You're voting with your money for the kind of world you want to live in. You are supporting female founders as, ah, 95% of the businesses on Holly Co. Are women owned. And you're choosing to back a better way to live that looks after people and the planet. Plus, everything we sell has a story behind it. It whether that's something interesting about the way it was made, the materials it's made from, or the person who created it. We're not just a marketplace, we're a movement and you don't even need to shop with us to be part of it. We champion independent businesses on the high street across the UK because we believe in the power of this community. So if you want to bring color, creativity and the values you hold dear

Speaker D: into your shopping center basket this Christmas, shop small.

Speaker I: Um,

Speaker A: Next year will mark the final year of my 40s and so midlife age and my outlook has been high on my mind. This year I've gone on my personal journey, learning about my hormones, incorporating gut, health and truly, I suppose I'm feeling more confident in my own skin than ever before. I'm excited to age, to see what's in store in my 50s and, um, see how my perspectives change. This very topic was high on the agenda with Katie Piper, a recent guest. She was so incredibly warm, articulate, and I liked her immensely. I spoke to her on a day when I was definitely on a low ebb and I can't tell you how much she lifted me. Her strength, her, huh, outlook on life and her determination to lead the change, rewrite the standards by which women live in. It's inspirational and I know that word can be often thrown around, but it really is. I could say this maybe about every podcast, but truly, Katie is a force to be reckoned with, an entrepreneur at heart, although she's never described herself like that and she speaks to such wisdom. So I urge you to listen to her episode in full.

Speaker J: What was interesting for me was entering this new era, this new decade in my 40s because I'd done so much work, um, with my foundation, but outside of my foundation through my books and programs around beauty, right? And here I was about to turn 40, which I was quite excited about, you know, more life living. That's great. You know, there's, there's some incredible women that have documented their battles with cancer, uh, over the last few years who have died in their 40s. You know, like, how dare we, uh, commiserate life? I think that's crazy. And again, it's eternalised Misogyny. And it comes not just for men. Like, I was getting a lot of female journalists being like, do you mind if we print your real age? Are you happy to talk about this big birthday you've got, uh, coming up? You know, when I was 39, about to turn 40, and I just thought, God, you would have sat across me 10 years ago and interviewed me about surviving and how great that is. Why are we treating women like this? You know, if life expectancy is 80, I'm only 50% through at 40, it's nothing but. And I think the message has changed a little bit with aging, where we have older women on telly now and we have older women selling us product, but the message is, you can be 50 and tell us you're 50, but please don't look 50.

Speaker D: I'm finding this all quite difficult because I was thinking about, I'm a few years off 50, and I'm super excited about being 50. And actually, 40s have been the best ever.

Speaker J: I love my 40s.

Speaker D: I've heard 60s are amazing, too, by the way. So I'm sort of like, I need to, like, calm down, Holly, and just, like, do not do the two decades in a heartbeat. But I'm finding it interesting as we move forward. I watched Sting at, uh, the Apollo the other day, and it was incredible. He's 74, you know, and he is amazing. And I turned around to my husband. He's 6, he just turned 65, and he's, uh. Anyone on this podcast knows. I do talk to him. He doesn't listen to this podcast. So it's slightly. He's like a half glass full kind of guy.

Speaker J: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I was trying to almost go,

Speaker D: but do you understand he's 74.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker D: And it's like, yeah, well, he's a pop star and things like that.

Speaker A: And I.

Speaker D: And I said, but listen, we're living in an age, an era where we look at the Sex and City girls versus the golden golden women. What's it called? Uh, Golden Girls.

Speaker K: Yeah.

Speaker L: Yeah.

Speaker D: And they were the same age. And we look at the A list, celebrities going on the. On the red carpet, and I'm literally. I can't cope that they are in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and. And how amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, but you're right, I.

Speaker D: There's something I feel very proud of, living in this era where 40 is the, uh, you know, 60 is the new 40 and all that sort of thing, but it still falls down to the fact that everyone looks really good.

Speaker J: Yeah. So the message is still Be beautiful. Like that's your look young, be beautiful, that's your worth. And I think that's what we need to change. And I think this is what inspired me. My latest book, Still Beautiful.

Speaker A: Tell me about this.

Speaker D: I was literally about to talk about this. So tell me about this book.

Speaker J: So I really dissect chapter by chapter all around. Like if you've ever felt not good enough, if you've ever felt lacking in some way, it's not your fault. And actually look at who made you feel like that. And actually the person that made you feel like that is often selling you the solution as well. So it's just to kind of trap us because if we're no longer, if we've all got high levels of self esteem and confidence, we're not going to constantly buy, buy disposable fashion, we're not going to constantly buy overpriced lotions and potions and probably the economy would collapse. About insecure women, right? It's not good for the economy if we're all okay. They need to keep us at this level where we just have to keep consuming all the time. And I've got two young daughters and I just wanted to write the truth and how I've found this out the hard way. And you know, we tell um, younger girls in particular like your 20s or your heyday. No, I was eating gone off food, living in a rented bedroom. I had to keep my, my uh, food and shampoo all in my bedroom because everyone was stealing it in the shared bathroom and shared kitchen. Like they were not. That was not my heyday. Like my 20s was a time for mistakes. Experimenting and being skin and actually my 40s are ah, the most financially secure

Speaker H: I have ever been.

Speaker J: Uh, they're the most stable I've ever felt. I'm able to say no without feeling rude. I'm able to be confident. I couldn't do any of that, not even in my 30s. So I'm assuming that 50s must be better and then 60s must be an even more improvement, you know.

Speaker A: The topic of midlife connection and living authentically as a woman was a silver thread throughout so many of my conversations this year with Polly Vernon to Sophie Ellis Bexter, uh, Kate Halfpenny, Vivian Wong. But it was my next guest, Donna Ashworth, who gave me this whole new vocabulary and shed a new light on how we can all support one another to own our vulnerability. I know that this episode was a favourite for so many of you, so enjoy hearing Donna's dulcet tones. She is a Captivating speaker and has an incredible way of cutting straight to the heart of a universal truth.

Speaker D: It's true beauty. During your journey, I'm just thinking about listening to you and how on this podcast, how much you have shared with us and that vulnerability. And I've heard you say that love lives in the ugly truths. That's the connection. So tell me about. Have you always been honest?

Speaker A: Rawly honest?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker G: I lived a whole life for decades.

Speaker D: And this is what you're talking about.

Speaker A: When we started this podcast.

Speaker J: Yeah.

Speaker D: When we were Talking about your 40s, was this second half that you were excited about? Is this where you started loving Donna more, understanding her more? And now at a point, I'm, um, 50. You're able to say all these things to me with this beautiful smile on your face.

Speaker G: I call it the great Unraveling. Um, because once you start unraveling this mask that we all wear, some people don't. You know, some people go through life authentically. And some of us are shoved into a box too young. And it's. Again, it's not our fault. We're just trying to get by. We're just trying to not bother everyone on a daily basis with our raw humanity. Cause we realize they don't like it. It's not palatable, you know, oh, she's crying again. Oh, she's being a bit human again. So we learn how to. We smooth. Smooth all of our rough edges to make ourselves more palatable for other people. So when you start to unravel that, it takes on a mind of its own, and it's like unraveling itself like a big fishing rod, you know, when it unravels the other way and the ropes going out and out. Cause it's being pulled by a fish. So it's dying for it. Your soul is dying to be bare. It really is, you know, and once you get it gets the green light from your ego, your mind, your monkey mind, it can become a really joyful thing. I could say to you, Holly, I've just signed a new book deal, and you'll be like, well done, Donna. That's amazing. You genuinely are happy for me. You want to know? Um, but if I say to you, holly, I just had the worst argument with my friend, and I was so bad. I was the worst version of myself. I was meant to. What I have given you in sharing of the ugly is such a gift. Because you've gone, oh, you're being really honest with me here. And I would never have thought you could be mean and unkind. Um, and childish. And it gives you permission suddenly to take the shame away from yourself when you have those moments. So the more we do that for one another. And I'm not saying replace all the shiny stuff, cause that's wonderful, share all of that. But every time you share a little bit of the ugly, a little bit of the stuff you've been hiding, you're handing another woman, another person, a present wrapped up, you know, and saying, I'm giving this to you because it's such a release for them.

Speaker A: Whilst aging as a woman can at times feel difficult to navigate as a founder, it brings with it experience and depth of understanding that can only be learned on the job, so to speak. Harry will turn 21 in January, and many of you will know that he was three months old when I started, not on the high street. And I'd been already supporting small businesses with my first company, your local fair, two years before that. So I'm entering into my 23rd year of building a business supporting small businesses. And it brings with it a resilience that I don't know can be learned. I think to build resilience, true resilience, you have to experience the highs and lows yourself. And I think of it as a muscle being worked over and over again. And I don't think there's a shortcut to resilience, but I do think so many things in business can be learned. We are, of course, in this age of infinite wisdom. And so as I reflect on this year, I think curiosity is going to be critical for all businesses, not just as founders, but to, um, instill a culture of curiosity at every level of your company, maybe even every level of your life, however big or small. Because ultimately the answers now are out there. And now we have the capability, if we ask the right questions, to unlock that information. And not only can we unlock the information, but it can be fed to us, us in a way that is digestible and totally individual for us to understand. Unlocking this way of thinking and learning has been transformational for me and Holly and company in the last few months. As a founder, growing a company, understanding yourself, how your brain absorbs information, how you work with others, and how others around you thrive is critical to success. I know this to be categorically true. Vivian Wong, the founder of Little Moons, shared such an insight on this topic, as much like me, she works with her sibling. And I thought her own experiences that she shares with us here would be invaluable to so many of you listening today.

Speaker D: A lot of People when they're going on this journey thinking, am I going to do this myself? The ego then says, yes, you are, because you are want. It's my idea and I want to have. I want to do it and I'm a control freak. And we've got founder Titus and all these sorts of things. And then the other side is actually to share a journey with someone, to have complementary skills to be able to do this. You know, these are the questions people ask when they're starting. Myself and my sister have short form conversations. We are able to converse. I would say like, like, you know, very few people I can converse with like that. Is that what you went into, just knowing instinctively that that's what you wanted do you wanted it to be a duo? And has your relationship evolved over time and has that. Has there been a core that remains the same?

Speaker K: I don't think we put as much thought into it like you talked about

Speaker D: it, nor did me and my sister. It was literally, I need you to stop your degree or. No, after your degree, I need you not to go and get a job. Could you just help me out for a bit? Yeah, that was, yeah, 18 years ago.

Speaker K: I think that founders that uh, are looking for co founders need to consider a lot more things than my brother and I considered. Again, it was just naivety. We just got into it. But it worked. And we worked together for a couple of years before we realized that we had completely different personalities, different ways of working. We did an insight test, you know, the different colors.

Speaker D: Yes, yes.

Speaker K: And it came back and we are polar opposite. He's like red, blue and I'm like green yellow with a spike in red. Complete opposites of the spectrum. You couldn't be more different.

Speaker D: But quite works then, um, doesn't it?

Speaker K: Yeah, but it learnt to work. Obviously we had squabbles about certain things. Um, but that's the great thing about sibling. He will never stop being my brother. We were always very close growing up because we hung out with each other a lot. My parents were working all the time, so we had to supervise each other doing homework and we spent a lot of time together. So to begin with, we were very, very close. Which, you know, is why it was so natural for us to do this together. But then, for example, I'd be paying some invoices or something and then he would be thinking about something big picture and want to discuss it with me and I'm just like, I can't talk about it right now. And he just thought I was just being a bit of a twat about it and just sort of like, they're there. Little brother, uh, I can't talk about it, but when we got the test back, it kind of says if you want to talk about something big picture with Vivian, you have to give her some time and say, I'd like to discuss this with you. Can you take some time to think about it? And then we'll have a discussion. And that is exactly how my br. I can't sort of drop what I'm doing and then suddenly go into this big discussion. And then he realized that actually my brain worked differently. And I also realized that his brain worked differently, that he needs to bounce ideas off and discuss things a lot. So I respected the way that he worked a lot better. And it's. And I think that's the same with any founder. You really have to understand each other, not just get on as friends, but really fundamentally work well together, respect each other. And I think people's idea of hard work is very different as well.

Speaker J: Yes.

Speaker K: Because if, you know, I've heard of founders where someone's working seven days a week, week, and that's hard work, and then someone else is working nine to five. But no, I've worked all day. Um, yeah, it's not quite the same. Not when you are the co founders doing seven days a week, like 18 hour days.

Speaker D: It's also for anyone thinking about it, firstly, for anyone not understanding when we're talking about colors, what that is, go and buy the book Surrounded by Idiots, which is one of the best books ever, where you can just short form everything we just spoken about about the fact that everyone is a red, green, yellow or blue. It's actually everyone's a mixture of all of them. But you just, uh, you have different ways of showing up in personal life and professional life and your perceived self. And it's absolutely fascinating. And also to look, if you're looking at co founders and who you can work with, if everyone is exactly the same, how is that diversity created within an organization and actually learning again? And Vivian and I, before we started the podcast, we're talking about our, our mothers and our. And the fact that actually we live in a world now where we can be more clued up about so much more when it comes to our psychology and the makeup of it. And that our, uh, mothers never had an ability to understand. You know, they just had to grit and bear living with a partner or child or menopause or any of these sorts of things. And now we have this wonderful way, I think you know, certainly at Holly Co. Everyone does a test on their personality before they they're employed. So we actually have it right from the start. So if you're looking for someone that needs to be very, very, very detailed and they absolutely do not register at all with any blue, which is your logical side, you do have to dig in and it's not to say they're not right, it is just to dig in saying wow, that's interesting because your profile doesn't show that you're detail orientated and that's not something that you're or looking at people's values. And so I think it's so interesting that you've gone in with your brother because actually so much of that was pre program and built in. You're coming from probably a very shared value status to start with, which is actually our fundamental building blocks, isn't it? For any founder or any company actually you need to share values and has it as the company has grown. What an amazing bond that you must have. Both of you. How have your roles changed in that time?

Speaker K: So I think it was really important for us to actually have roles because first couple of years that we started we kind of all did everything and it all. Everything.

Speaker D: 10, 10, 10 jobs each.

Speaker K: Yeah. And then it's like well, who's responsible for something? I was like well I thought you were going to do it. And he said well I thought you were going to do it and it doesn't get done. Disaster. Like you know, the last thing you need, you've got so much to do. And so then we split the roles out and he did sales and marketing, I did operations, finance, uh, HR and other things. So then there's working very closely together to build the business. And then I think the dynamic changes a bit. When we hired our first sort of executive team which was heads of apartments.

Speaker H: Mhm.

Speaker K: And then it just, the business just changes. And then we had, and then a couple of years passed, we got private equity investment. Then we had you know, executives like C Suite come in and then we, we're not so involved in the day to day so we then have more time to speak strategically. But truthfully, I mean Howard would say the same thing. I think we're really looking forward to not speaking to each other every single day about work. Uh, I mean I look back at some of the emails when he was at uni or we used to be write long emails about our life, what's going on with him now, now. And then for the longest number of years all we talked about was work and I. Do we want to go home and have dinner with mom. Yeah, but and dad. But yeah, we talked about work and so it would be really nice to go back to a normal sibling relationship where, whereby we just talk about normal things.

Speaker A: Are ah, you a small business owner? If you are, have you been onto Royal Mail's Small Business Hub? It is full of insight articles and tips designed with you in mind. Whether you have a new creative business

Speaker D: idea and are starting to bring it

Speaker A: to life, are, ah, looking to grow or perhaps you are more established and wanting to know your next step. Um, there is information on the Small Business Hub tailored for you and you might even see me on there sharing some top tips too. Why not take a look? Go to royalmail.com smallbusinesshub. And with that, it marks the end of this episode and the end of this series. Thank you so much for listening, for joining me each week on a journey of discovery. Whilst we may never have met, I do feel deeply connected with you, knowing that each week we are absorbing the same life affirming lessons and insights. As always, I close with a letter to my younger self. This is really the hardest part of the episode to just pick one, but here it goes. I leave you with the beautiful words of Kate Halfpenny. Kate poured her soul out onto paper and how lucky, lucky we all are to hear such deeply personal words. So I'm sending all my love and I'll see you all again in January. Big kisses.

Speaker I: Dear Kate, you are enough. You always have been. Never let anyone, especially yourself, convince you otherwise. Live with your heart, not just your head. There's no need to be too serious all the time.

Speaker F: Time.

Speaker I: Life will unfold as it should. There are plenty of people around to help unravel the tight knots. When things get too heavy.

Speaker L: Be grateful to those who have lifted. Oh, I don't know why I'm so emotional. I think it's this whole conversation that we've had.

Speaker D: Uh, it gets. Yeah. Uh, just, just let. I'm here.

Speaker L: Be grateful to those who have lifted

Speaker I: you along the way. And always, always pay that forward, that kindness you've received. Let it flow through you and out into the world.

Speaker L: World.

Speaker I: Listen deeply. Really listen. The gift of listening is quiet magic. And when you use it, you'll learn more than you ever thought possible. You don't need to know it all and you never will. That's the beauty of the journey. Speak your truth. Even when your voice shakes. Having an opinion matters. Not everyone needs to agree with you. And that's okay. Stand tall in your values. Try, really try, not to worry about what other people think. Think comparison will rob you blind of joy every single time. And you've got too much beauty in you to waste on doubt. You have love, talent, creativity, and fire in spades. And no one else's validation defines you. You need to trust yourself. Surround yourself with people who challenge you, who are better than you in all the right ways. Celebrate their brilliance. It complements yours. You will rise to them. Cherish your family. They did the best they could with what they you. Their mistakes weren't failures. They were lessons passed to you in love. Take what helps, leave what hurts, but honor the roots. The most important thing to know and remember is that you are so loved and your family are so very proud of you. Cherish that. And then never go to bed on an argument. And don't hold back when it comes to love. Say it, show it. Remind people often we all need to feel loved. It's not weakness. It's human. Your heart will get broken, maybe more than once. But with every crack, it opens wider. Let it. It will heal stronger, softer, and even more ready to love. Dream like a wild thing. Because your dreams can become real. Celebrate your body. Seriously. That amazing, brilliant body you're in. Treat it with love. It's your home, your engine, your magic maker. Love yourself and watch what happens. There will be a time when you wonder if becoming a mother will ever happen for you. It won't be easy. Easy.

Speaker L: There will be waiting. There will be tears. There will be needles, appointments and quiet prayers in sterile rooms. Ivf, uh, will test your strength, your patience, and your hope. But hold on. Miracles don't always arrive on schedule. But they do arrive. And when that little boy comes into your life, he will shift your world on its axis. His laugh will echo in places that

Speaker I: once felt a hotel follow. Then every part of your journey will suddenly make sense.

Speaker L: Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't mean to cry.

Speaker D: Oh, uh, please, carry on.

Speaker L: You will create that life with the most incredible man. The one who sees you, really sees you. He will love you deeply, protectively, with every cell in his body. So wait for him. Learn from the wrong ones, but don't set the right one is worth every lesson along the way. Doubt will visit you.

Speaker I: It visits us all. But courage is what makes you brave. What makes you an entrepreneur, a visionary, a doer. Uh, never underestimate your own power. And that surname you've got tease for as a freckly, ginger kid. It's going to be the name of your international bridal brand. Yes.

Speaker L: Really?

Speaker I: Your freckles and red hair are fire own. Um, them scars from bullies. Wear them with pride. They made you stronger, wiser, kinder, and infinitely more empathetic.

Speaker L: Pathetic.

Speaker I: Be the maverick. Don't follow trends. Make them manifest big. Trust your gut into your inner compass, your quiet guardian angel. And speak kindly about yourself. You're listening. After all, words are powerful. Using to build, not bruise. And remember, your own company is enough. Read a book. Sit in silence. You don't need others to feel whole. Work only with exceptional people. Hire the ones you think you can't afford. They'll stretch out you. You'll rise to meet them. Don't stress about your dyslexia. It's not a flaw. It's your secret sauce. What you don't say in perfect sentences you show in stunning visuals and unstoppable creativity. Being different, that's your superpower. Never be ashamed of your roots. They're where your grit and fire come from. Your family built the foundation. You'll build the empire. And never be afraid to ask for help. Just make sure you're asking the givers, not the takers. And, um, protect your ideas, their goals.

Speaker L: Gold.

Speaker I: You are stronger than you think, braver than you feel, and, um, more capable than you'll ever fully believe. Keep going. The best parts are yet to come. And don't you dare, uh, give up. With love, Kate.

Speaker D: Thank you for joining me today.

Speaker A: If you've enjoyed this episode, can I ask that you share it with a friend and, like, subscribe and review it, too, so that together, we can. Can inspire even more people to follow their dreams, to build a life they love?