1197: The CFO Who Learned Finance by Owning Sales | Sinohe Terrero, CFO, Envoy

Speaker A: This episode of CFO Thought Leader is made possible by Planful and Avalara. CFO Thought Leader is made possible by Sage High Performance Finance Software and Intuit QuickBooks bill pay. Say goodbye to manual bill entry.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was fun, fun, fun, fun. And you were right about the catalyt. So I'm sorry I interjected. This is episode 1197.

Speaker C: I had to take over the sales team and I think as CFOs we, we've always felt very close and intimate to the, to the modeling and forecasting of how the sales team operates. But it's a very different thing to have that on a spreadsheet than for you to own the number when you're dealing with the humans and you got to figure out how do you keep these people motivated? You know, how do you get and get, get involved in conversations, uh, with the. But also, you know, how do you keep these folks like continuing to have confidence in themselves when the quarters are not looking as great. So I think that owning the number and being that close to having the target myself has given me a different, very different perspective. And so when I talk to my CROs now, they know that I know that it's not just a spreadsheet guy talking to them. They know that I know what it means to own the number.

Speaker A: Hi, it's Jack. On today's show, we speak with Sanoe Torero, CFO and COO of Envoy. The spreadsheet can tell you what the number needs to be. Still, I can't always tell you what it takes for people to deliver that number. And I think that's where the CFO role changing finance leaders are being asked to understand not just the model, but the human effort behind the model. Sales teams, customer teams, marketing teams, operators, all trying to make the business work.

Speaker B: So here's the question.

Speaker A: Does a CFO become more strategic by getting closer to the numbers or by getting closer to the people responsible for them? This conversation gives us a pretty interesting answer. Our talk with CFO Sanoe Torero begins after this. And so it's been said, growth in business comes from data driven forward momentum. And without time, clarity and control, it can be impossible to move when and how you need to intuit. QuickBooks Bill Pay automates accounts payable so you can see clearly, act with intent and remain in control for your finances. Their powerful platform brings bills, vendors, payments and 1099s together so you can make smarter decisions and reclaim precious time and energy. With QuickBooks Bill Pay, you choose how and when money goes out instantly see what's due control? Who needs to approve it and see how it hits your cash flow? Vendors add their own payment details, but you don't spend time chasing them down. You stay in control and confident, making it easy to chart your own leadership path and move forward the way you need to. And so it's been said yet again, reclaim time and control so you can move forward. Making the switch to QuickBooks Bill Pay today. Learn more@quickbooks.com BillPay Again, that's quickbooks.com BillPay terms apply. Money Movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Incorporated, licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of, uh, Financial Services. Hello.

Speaker B: CFO Senoue Torero is with us. It's a pleasure to welcome him back to CFO Thought Leader. Since we last spoke, his role at Envoy has expanded well beyond finance, now encompassing operations while also including leadership responsibilities across hr, customer success, legal, and interim CRO and CMO assignments. Along the way, he's added venture investing and multiple advisory and board roles, giving him a unique perspective on how today's CFO is, uh, evolving into one of the most versatile leaders in the executive suite. Sanoi, welcome back.

Speaker C: Thank you, Jack. Thanks for having me back.

Speaker B: So, as always, as you might recall, we always like to do the career journey portion up front here. And you did have a very interesting career journey. Lots of technology companies, uh, and there was the Etsy ipo. But you know what I'm looking back at, uh, today, uh, I'm wondering if there are experiences that have perhaps taken on new significance for you as you evolve as a leader, as you, you know, every step of the way, you became a, you know, a more seasoned leader. What about those experiences? You look back now and you discover, wow, there's some learnings there. I didn't realize anything.

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I think that, um, for me, one of the things that happened after Etsy, when I was particularly at Quid, was, you know, I had to take over the sales team. And I think as CFOs, we, we've always felt very close and intimate to the, to the modeling and forecasting of how the sales team operates. But it's a very different thing to have that on a spreadsheet than for you to own the number. Right? And, you know, you get to learn about the psychology behind managing that team and that group and how it's a lot more than just whatever you can put on a. You know, we're numbers people, so we know conversions, right? Like, you know, I need pipeline, I need leads. Leads need to convert. Conversion at certain dollar raise equals this much bookings. Uh, but when you're dealing with the humans and you got to figure out how do you keep these people motivated, you know, how do you get involved in conversations, uh, with the customers, but also, you know, how do you keep these folks, like, continuing to have confidence in themselves when the quarters are not looking as great? So I think that owning the number and being that close to having to target myself has given me a different, very different perspective. And so when I talk to my CROs now, they know that I know that it's not just a spreadsheet guy talking to them. They know that I know what it means to own the number.

Speaker B: I love it. I'm wondering, when you look back and this, you can go back towards the start of your career if you like, but was there a career decision you. You might make differently today? Would you have done anything differently?

Speaker C: That's a good question. You know, I think that m. I want to say yes, because that sounds like the right answer, but I don't think so. You know, I think that what I tell people about my career trajectory and the way that I've been able to do the things that I have done is that I've always just raised my hand when I see problems and, um, even problems that are outside of my sphere. Because when you're in a growth stage company, you know, the CEO is looking for a partner. They're just not looking for a person that's like, you know, doing the bookkeeping or they're looking for a partner. And I forget where I heard this, Jack, but someone said this. It's like, you got to do what your CEO doesn't want to do. Right? Like, so I think of my job that way, where it's like, I do the things people don't want to do, uh, because then you get rewarded when you do those. And I think when I look back at my career and I've worn a lot of different hats, it's really kept me engaged. But it's because I've always raised my hand. So I don't know that I would have not raised my hand, if that makes sense. Um, if anything, let me. As I think about it, I probably would have come to the West Coast a little earlier. Um, that would have been maybe one thing, because I still do think that although my experience at Etsy was amazing, the west coast is still where the startup innovation still happens. Um, and that I think I would have done with less reluctance. I had to be dragged out here But I would have run here.

Speaker B: You're. Your network, your professional network would have been more robust earlier had you done that. Uh, I imagine that's the payoff. You're going to have this, uh, more people, more professionals in that world.

Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. And you would have been around again, the companies that are really innovating and changing things. Uh, I think New York is very different than when I left New York. Right back, back in the Etsy days, there wasn't a lot going on that was diverse. Everything was something tech. So, like ad tech, fintech. Um, meanwhile, in. On the west coast, there was like, you know, like Lyft, Uber, you know, like, there was all of these things that were coming out of nowhere. Instacart, you know. Um, and I think that this is where the seeding of those ideas, which is why AI now is so prevalent here. Right. Um, this is where the genesis starts. And you want to be sort of like at the start of these races. I always say that I want to join companies before people know about them, because by the time they know about them, I'm probably too late.

Speaker B: We'd love to have you reflect a little bit on leadership. And again, uh, you revealed to us one thing about you. Uh, you're a problem solver, and that was a great career way to build your career. You've observed leaders all along the way, and then you become one. What's not true about leadership? What's maybe something you might have had wrong about it?

Speaker C: Um, well, I think sometimes people expect leaders to know everything, and I think that's just not true. Uh, I think it takes. I think people love to say that they're surrounding themselves by smart people, but it actually takes some leaders longer to actually do that, like, get the right lieutenants. Um, like, my job right now is not to try to act like I'm the smartest finance person in this company. I need other people to do that, uh, because I need to be leveraged in other ways. And I think that it takes some time, you know, folks, some time to do that. The other thing is black boxing. I'm not a fan of black boxing. And what I mean by that is people don't want to keep, like, their secret sauce a secret, right? Like, because they feel that that's what makes them powerful. I'm more of a teacher. I want everybody to know what I know so that they can do better things. And I think sometimes leaders take a little while to really understand that last piece where it's like, hey, it's okay. Like, Share the knowledge, be upfront, and make sure you're surrounded by people that are actually doing the job better than you can.

Speaker B: It seems to me you were always kind of aware that operating experience was going to be valuable to you, correct? Uh, or was there a time you wanted broader operating responsibility and you had to knock on the door?

Speaker C: I think it was the circumstance that led me to do that. When I joined Etsy, there was only 70 of us in Brooklyn. And, you know, opportunity, I would say, gaps just kept showing up and you just have to figure out how you're going to fill that gap. Right. And I realized that I really enjoyed the diversity in the work for me personally. And so I think it was that situation, being in a situation in which you have no choice. Right. I think right now, people look at Etsy, it's a successful company, everyone knows about it. But 2008, we didn't know it was going to survive. We were holding it up with tape and bubble gum and whatever, and, you know, a lot of us just had to wear a lot of different hats. And again, I was afforded that opportunity. I think that was unique for the time, and I'm ever so thankful for that. But it was a circumstance we needed. Everyone needed to roll up their sleeves and do whatever it took to make sure the company continued to move forward.

Speaker B: How has, and, ah, you know, I mentioned upfront that you're today CEO as well, of an envoy. How has becoming an operator changed you, perhaps as a cfo?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it goes back to the intimacy and awareness of what the other teams actually need. You know, sometimes when we hide behind, you know, the spreadsheets, again, we're like, we take, uh, so much pride in, like, our modeling. And I always used to say, hey, I can, I can put a spreadsheet to be 30% growth or 50% growth with a change of one, you know, one cell. Um, when, when you are in the other parts of the operation, I think you just understand a bit more about what it takes to run those operations. Right. And, and quite frankly, it allows you to have conversations with other leaders across, you know, um, other segments that they know, hey, this is not just, you know, Sanoi that looked at some spreadsheet that says the board said we got to grow at this rate. This is a person that's very aware of how we operate, very aware of the work we do. And I think that when I'm giving counsel, I. It's received from a different perspective. It's not like the evil CFO is telling me, no, I think people understand. Hey, I kind of know how this works too. Um, and I'll give you an example. When I'm talking to marketing, we're really talking about the spend, the fact that I've run marketing before, they know that I know how we should be distributing this budget. It's not just a spreadsheet telling me.

Speaker B: So I'm curious, uh, as you mentioned going to the west coast, maybe you should have gotten there sooner. You were thinking. But it's interesting, after your Etsy chapter ended, you're on the West Coast. I mean, it happens fairly swiftly right after that. So was that the plan? I, uh, mean, was there a point in time that you just said, I'm, um, westward bound or what? You know, what did you experience? What brought you out there?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's more like I came here kicking and screaming. Um, and um, I actually didn't really, really understand the diversity in the innovation. And it took me a very long time after I decided to leave Etsy and I was, I spent most of my time first at looking in New York and I, because I, you know, I'm a New Yorker, I love New York, my family's in New York, did not want to leave New York. Um, and I think that there were so many opportunities that were sitting here. Now the way that I got to the west coast actually is a good friend of mine who worked at Etsy. Her, uh, name is Liz Wald. She had gone on to indiegogo, uh, which is the company that I joined after. And she said, hey, these guys really need someone like you. Come and take a look. You would love the CEO, um, and you can come and have a real impact here because it was another marketplace similar to Etsy. It was at a stage that was similar to where Etsy was a year or two into our tenure there. She and I worked very closely together, uh, in building out the international, um, offices and whatnot and Etsy. And that was what she was going to do there. She's like, hey, we can basically do the same thing again and have a lot of fun. And, uh, that's how I ended in the west coast. But it was kind of kicking and screaming.

Speaker B: Well, we'll probably have some more career related questions for you a little later. Uh, but what we want to do. And again, Envoy, I could not believe six years have gone by your tenure. We were just speaking to you sort of in your first year I believe, and here, uh, we are six years later. So a lot's happened here. Uh, but I'm going to Open up with just a broad question. Tell us about Envoy. What is this company about today? What, what's happening there?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's interesting because we have had quite the evolution over those six years. When I joined Envoy originally, we were basically a visitor's product, um, for the most part. And so if you've ever come into an office and signed in on an iPad, you were probably using our product. And then Covid happened. I joined in January and we were sheltering in place in March. So I joined the company that was building products for offices when everybody stopped going to offices, um, and we quickly had to pivot to the employee at the time, um, by doing something that we call protect, which was allowing visitors to come in in a protected way to offices by saying if they got vaccinated and whatnot. And then we built desks because we realized that spacing was going to be a need, um, for companies as they thought about different uses of their space and whatnot. We've always had rooms and deliveries. And then analytics played a big role. As we've gone now and where we are now, we are really honestly more of a security company. Like we are playing in the most secure spaces in the globe. We help the largest companies in the world secure their physical space. And so whether it's aerospace, defense, biopharma, ah, manufacturing companies that need to make sure that they are managing the risk, the loss, the potential theft, um, you know, who's coming into their building. Like is it, is it a foreign national? Um, is it, you know, within the itar rules, like all of those things. I think we are now playing into that space a lot more, uh, with, you know, some of our latest products are about emergency notifications. And again we are leveraging emergency notifications with our other products and visitors. So our suite is the only suite, quite frankly available that if you do have an emergency, we can take over all of your screens, we can notify all of your visitors, we can tell you who is actually physically located in the space right now, which quite frankly, if you have an emergency, that's kind of what you want, what you want to make sure you tackle. So we've gone through this evolution of our product and where it really fits well now we still service everything else like our visitors product is still the best visitors product in the market, uh, by far. But now it is really just a component of a broader sort of security suite, if you will, uh, in this space.

Speaker A: Can you help us understand what is

Speaker B: driving the growth of this business today then?

Speaker C: I mean, I think there's a combination of things. It's funny, I was. Someone was just asking me this this morning. And look, when I think about my tenure here, um, you know, I've been here six years. The first four years were we were dealing with existential issues that were outside of our control, you know, like global pandemics. Um, and then we had sort of like what I call like, inflation, like Covid's ugly cousin that really rattled businesses and we didn't have our footing. You know, um, inflation was rampant. People didn't really know, um, what was going on. And people did not know how they were going to use their space. Right. Um, people didn't know if they were going to be remote, if they were going to be hybrid. Are they coming back to the office? And so we were sort of like steering the boat with all of that uncertainty. What's fueling the growth now is that most companies, if not all, have decided where they fall on that spectrum. They know if they're going to be in five days. They know if they're going to be hybrid. They know if they're going to be remote. But now the need of data is critical to the operating of the space. Right. If you think about pre Covid time, you can kind of guesstimate how many people are going to be in your office on any given day. Right? Uh, you go, well, Normally we'll have 30 people or whatever, 300, 3000. Now, it's a very different world and the need for data is just that much higher. Also, I think that people are really seeing that the use of a, uh, software product to solve this problem is really where they need to be at. Uh, no one wants to have a pen and pen, pen and paper, you know, log, for example. Um, you need to make sure that you have the facility, the ability to check people's IDs. If you have to verify that identification. Companies need to know who's on their blacklist. Right? There's dangerous situations, ex employees that might be disgruntled, you know, you name it. There's a host of things that people are just not willing to forego that ability anymore. Whereas before, I think they would have been like, oh, no, we could, we could deal without that. Uh, now it's not the same. The last thing I'll say is that, you know, like theft, uh, particularly for, like, manufacturing freight, you know, before it was like, hey, they were people. I think now really have better data to really understand if things are missing. Whereas, you know, before people were like, hey, I'm doing my estimate Even the auditors, they do a random sampling. Now, there's no such thing as random sampling because you have real time information about your inventory, your loss, your theft, and that requires you to have just a lot more information about who's been in your space.

Speaker A: Well, help us understand then how you

Speaker B: look into this business and which, uh, which operating metrics are you watching, you know, every week, every day? Help us understand what you're looking at.

Speaker C: Well, for us, I mean, it's funny because I got to look at everything as every CFO has, has to look at. I think the, the main things and it's changing. Look, for a while we were really looking at net and gross ret, um, because we understood that there was a cohort of companies that bought at a time and now they know what they need. And that came with some changes, right? Some of it was contraction, some of it was expansion. But the understanding of that, uh, permanence, I should say, of the customer was just harder for us because we just didn't know if Company X was like, oh, yeah, you know what, we're going to contract by this much because we bought too much and now we really know what our offices are. Um, that's slowly going away. Thankfully. Like, we've had some of our best quarters. I think our last. We, we've had like, improved metrics on retention for 17 straight quarters, like quarter after quarter after quarter. And it's because that's leaving those cohorts are maturing. And now we're, we have a better sense of understanding the business. Um, we still track it very closely, but at least now we understand it much, much better, which is great for forecasting. Um, the other thing is really like, making sure that our aspect, um, is tracked because we're adding a ton of value to the offering. Right? The platform itself now is a lot more valuable together. And so one of the things that my CRO and I spend a lot of time talking is not just the booking side on the top line, but really like, how's our ASP growing, how's the size of deals, um, growing as well. And so those, I think are the main things. I spent a lot of time on the. Maybe because I've run sales now a few times, um, on the sales metric side of the house. Um, and quite frankly, you know, Jack, I think anybody that's running a small company, particularly a tech company right now needs to be really, really mindful of, you know, cash, cash on hand, cash burn. Um, because I don't think this is an environment where anyone Wants to go raise money, right? Like, like the multiples are not where they need to be. Um, we gotta give that some time to recover. Right now there's an AI frenzy, uh, going on. And if you're not, you know, if you're not AI, you know, and you're burning a bunch of money like, you know, you're not running your business properly

Speaker B: when it, when it comes to investing in the business, how do you decide where to invest?

Speaker C: Uh, I mean, if you know the answer to that, I, we need to have a follow up call. Uh, no, you know, I think that the, the fact is that we, because we have such a large cohort of customers, we're starting to get better at finding the early signals. Right? Um, again, like manufacturing for example, was something that we started to see the signals about two years ago, to be honest. Um, in the inception of the company, we were mostly a tech led company, meaning the tech companies were buying our products. And now tech is like one of our smallest. And we started to see in the data early on. Okay, this is where we're seeing the use of it. Um, likewise, biopharma, um, came into play, right? And now we're seeing, um, things like defense, aerospace, and we see it in the data itself. So for me we're looking at activity, we're looking at where we have heavy use. Um, and then we're saying, okay, these are verticals where like me and my CMO sit down and say, okay, now we need to invest into that vertical. We're seeing the data points come through.

Speaker B: You know, it's interesting we talked with you last time about COVID and how it's interesting to talk about those, uh, the impact of something like that on a business because it shows us how you think. Uh, but this tenure now has just

Speaker A: stretched into uh, the AI years, let's say.

Speaker B: And this is really what will most likely define your tenure. One would imagine not Covid, that was an interesting first, uh, chapter. But.

Speaker A: So where is AI creating, uh, the most value for Envoy? What do you see?

Speaker C: I mean, uh, we've really, from the, when you have a technologist as a CEO, you know that there's going to be a push. And I think that in our case we have a super push because, uh, we have like a super technologist as CEO and I sit next Sam. Um, and so from the beginning we were like, all right, how are we going to leverage it both internally as well as in our product? And we track those two things differently internally. We've had a push now for the last Seven, eight months to really push the entire organization towards AI, the use of AI for efficiency. I mean, in the accounting team, in finance, we've done so much in leveraging AI. I've personally built a number of applications. Like, you know, I created a flowcast competitor that we use internally, um, myself, and it basically has all the functionality from flowcast, believe it or not. Um, we've developed applications for capitalized web development to facilitate that. Um, ah, all of our forecasting. Now my FPA is all based on cloth skills. So literally all of the updating that would take us. When you're doing a forecast, as you know, Jack, you got to first get the data, make sure that it is properly, um, uh, set up and cleanse, if you will, and then you can get to your forecasting when you're putting your actuals. Now that takes us a minute. It's pretty remarkable. And so the approach that we've taken in my teams has been we want to look at the time we spent on, uh, repetitive tasks and start slicing those one at a time, right? The way that I'm looking at AI right now is there's augmentation, right, in which you're just getting smarter about something. Even me getting ready for this podcast, like, I'm augmented. I'm an augmented human because the machines can do that, right? There's, you know, what I call like this. I don't think there's workflow automation yet, but there is task automation. And that is what I'm focused on. Like there's task automation, which could really cut time. And then there's application development. And you know, not everybody can be at the application development stage, but for us, we have a number of people literally creating applications. And so that's internally for the company. We found incredible success across all of our teams. And I have examples literally across finance, legal, deal desk, marketing, across the board that we're leveraging that, uh, and then on our product. I mean, we're leveraging our product in AI in a ton of ways. I mean, one of the things I'm m most excited about that we're building right now is a threat intelligence, um, component to our emergency notifications. And you know, this is something that in the past, A, would have taken us like four years to build, and B, we would not have had the data without buying it from a bunch of places which, by the way, might have been dated the data or not even that good. And you know, in a couple of months, m, our team has been able to develop something that we're going to put to market shortly that has, I mean honestly I don't even remember how many data fields coming in, um, because of AI. And so, so it's a pretty exciting time. I think it's a pretty exciting time to, to be a, a leader. Um, and we have to really lean in. But for us we, we found a ton of success.

Speaker B: If, if I understood, uh, as we, you were mentioning forecasting and how there's such a time savings, perhaps, but are the, when it comes to business visibility, are your signals improving?

Speaker A: I mean are the, are the measures improving as well?

Speaker C: Yeah, yes. Um, we've taken an approach. For example, we built something here called Success AI. For example, we call it Success AI. Uh, and what it is, I mean literally we are taking all of the data sources from our customer base and when I say all, I ah, mean Salesforce Billing gone calls marketo pipeline. Literally everything into one centralized like sort of like brain if you will. And you uh, know it has all of the nps, if anybody has ever filed a ticket, like just the amount of data consolidated that right now we can really identify opportunities for expansion based on all of those data points in a consolidated way. Right. I think all of the data existed before but you had to look at it, you know, it was compartmentalized. You had to look at it in a fragmented way and you couldn't really look at your entire corpus and say, here are all of my customers, here's all of the behavior, here's all of their activity, their usage of our product. Um, and you add to it like literally like real time news that they're expanding and uh, business opportunities. And now on a more real time basis, our teams know that like the account owners have that data at their fingertips, which is really game changing.

Speaker A: What is still unclear about AI's role at envoy though?

Speaker B: Is there something that hasn't been sorted out yet?

Speaker C: Oh, I mean there's a bunch of things. I think the thing I actually lead our AI council uh, internally and one of the things that we are grappling with is the continuity of these things that people are building. Right? Because everyone's building stuff, but they are building stuff. And if Joe builds an amazing application and he leaves, who maintains that application? Right. Um, you know, those are questions that we're still trying to uh, figure out because there's going to be a limit to that. The other thing is that there's a lot of AI slop being created by a lot of people that are well intentioned. Everybody's well intentioned. Um, but how you distinguish between those two things, um, is still, I think, a challenge because you need to really identify where the value is being created as opposed to just busy work. So those, I think, are our challenges right now, that we're trying to figure out how we're going to lay that down. And there is no blueprint. Everyone is dealing with these same problems.

Speaker B: Were you, it would sound like, given your cross functional experience, you were perhaps the obvious management member to lead that AI team. Um, or was it not so obvious?

Speaker C: Um, I think in here was obvious because I'm a very curious person and I started building things on my own. Um, and so it became natural that again, my CEO clearly is more.

Speaker A: Had you always done that, by the way?

Speaker B: Were you always, uh, I mean, does it come out of tinkering with spreadsheets? I mean, what. Why did you think you were capable of creating these new, sort of tweaking these apps and introducing technologies?

Speaker C: You know, I think that's spot on. You know, I always say about spreadsheets that, um, everyone's had the ability to use them, but not everybody took on sort of like that, that mandate to really learn and understand them to the degree of building. Right. You don't always have builders. Right. Uh, you have people that can inherit a spreadsheet. Right. And it's funny, Jack, because the way that I was, that I used to distinguish, uh, accounting levels, I would say, look, a junior accountant can, can get a spreadsheet and like, do a very good job at filling in what you tell them to. A more senior accountant can, can figure out if there's a bug, but probably can't debug.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, you know, if you move up the ladder, you can debug, but only a, only a few special people, you can give them an empty workbook and say, build this. And that's, you know, that to me is like the upper level of build this. Because I think most people, some people, their brain's just not interested in the build part of it. Me, I was always like, I always overbuild my workbooks. Right. Um, I always overbuilt them. There was always like a lot in the creation of the workbook to make it simple. And so when I got the opportunity to do that, um, I started identifying areas where I said, hey, why are we doing that busy work where the machines could just do it? Um, and I mean, look, I've even created, I've created my own iOS apps. I just find this stuff fun.

Speaker B: It's interesting to find out it's rooted in uh, spreadsheets. Very interesting.

Speaker A: Hey, so we're up to, uh, what

Speaker B: we like to refer to as our finance strategic moments. And you might remember this is where we're just asking you to look back in time and share a moment of insight that you've experienced along the way. And this might have happened last month or it might have happened, you know, way back during your Etsy years. I don't know. But what comes to mind when we ask for a, uh, finance strategic moment?

Speaker C: Well, I think for me, m, the finance strategic moment came, quite frankly, before our last fundraise. Because, you know, the timing of a fundraise is always interesting, right? Like, when do you go to market? And for me, the thing that I was proud of was that I was able to clearly articulate the financial story that we needed to tell to my CEO, right? Because CEOs, they, you know, they have their own reason why they want to go. They will have their own timing. And what I kept going back to is, hey, I'm a storyteller. And I was highlighting, like, this is the story that I want to be able to say. And I was like, I need one more quarter of this so that the story is cohesive. Because absent of that, we're going to have gaps in that financial storyline. Because no matter what we present in the first couple of slides, the backslide is usually mine and then afterwards the diligence is mine. And so I think, but keeping m always front and center, that you're a storyteller, a financial storyteller, and that your guidance is going to actually paint that story. I think to me is the strategic insight that I have always tried to keep in mind definitely had in the round. But even now when people are telling me why do I make certain decisions about people like, are we growing? Are we investing? Are we expending? I'm always like, hey, I'm painting a picture here, people. And um, for me, I gotta remember that every quarter counts in that painting.

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Speaker B: We asked the same question last time. I want to see if your answer changes any.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: What is advice you would give yourself again? Uh, you're just 60 days into your first CFO role. What is that piece of advice you

Speaker A: wish maybe somebody gave you?

Speaker B: If you think back to that, that first CFO gig, what, what is it that you wish someone had just explained to you? Because as much as you knew at that place in time, there still was something.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think. Look, I think what I wish that I, that I knew right away and not had to develop is that, you know, my job is enablement. Like, I'm an enabler of humans, right? Like, I know that, you know, we have to protect the finances and, you know, we have a fiduciary duty to make sure that people are not at doing stuff, but finessing that conversation so that people understand that my job is to enable them to do their job. And I think, you know, the, the sooner that I could have got to that, I think the more effective I, I would have been. Because, look, we have to say no a lot. And you know, to me, you got to build that trust early. You got to make that investment in trust. You can't just be like, drunk on power because you're the CFO and you can do xyz. At the end of the day, it's a collaborative effort. And the more that you can bring people on board to understanding your point of view and the fact that you're really trying to enable them, I think the more they'll be understanding when you have to tell them, hey, no, you're not going to get the three head counts or, you know, it's not just coming out of a whim. It's not, you know, capricious. It's really, hey, I am here for all of us. And I think that the, uh, the sooner that you get to that, um, in that first role, the better. Because now I can say no. There's trust. Um, and, and I. It just makes my job a lot easier. Great.

Speaker B: We always like to ask our guests to reflect a little on the personal side. We know, uh, you have New York roots, but anything else you can share with us something most people might not know about you.

Speaker C: Um, well, I mean, I think take care of your health. I started running two years ago, um, in my, at the age of 49, almost 50, and I think has been, and life, ah, changing for me. Um, um.

Speaker B: You were not a runner before.

Speaker C: I had never run even a mile swim or.

Speaker B: There was no, it wasn't part of your, uh, nothing.

Speaker C: Nothing.

Speaker B: What, what led you to finally say,

Speaker C: okay, you know, I was turning, I was about to turn 50. I, uh, realized that I wasn't in the best of health. Um, I wanted, you know, I have diabetes in my family history, and I wanted to be in front of the problem. And, you know, I would tell my brother, I want to, I, I want to do something before they tell me they got to cut my toes. Um, not after. And so really just started, you know, that, that journey. Uh, and now I'm like eight half marathons in. I ran the New York City Marathon last year.

Speaker B: Was that the first time or, uh. Are you going to come back?

Speaker C: Uh, it was my first one and I am coming back. I, I, I got in this year again. Um, and so, but no, but for me, the thing that I would say is that it's actually helped me be a better cfo, be a better person here. Because I run in the morning, I come in, it really resets my day. I come in with positive energy. And I always tell folks, as a coo, I know all the problems in this company, but I need to wake up thinking about how I'm going to make solutions happen, not the problems that are there. I tell people if I focus on the problems, I won't get out of bed. Um, but I got to think about solutions. And so for me, like, running in the morning, um, is really a way for me to, like, have that moment to myself and, and get my day started. So my advice is do something to get that day started. Get that positive energy.

Speaker B: Nice. Nice. Ah, share for us. Thank you for that. Um, hey, is there a book or something that's influenced your thinking along the way? Something you've relied on from time to time? Maybe it's a resource, doesn't have to be a book. Something that challenged you. Think differently. Don't know.

Speaker C: You know, I think that it's funny because there's a lot of books that people can tell you, like Crossing the Chasm or, you know, um, Blue Ocean. I think the book that I think actually had the most impact on me was Barbarians at the Gate for some reason. And, and it's because, um, um, first of all, it's Kind of funny the way that they wrote it, but the, the whole concept of the leverage buyout, the whole, you know, that whole thinking about how the management had to think about, you know, the selling of the company, you know, thinking about much cash those companies generated. You know, to me is a book that went. That I still think about just because it was. There was just so many things I found amazing there at the time, uh, in terms of the way business operate, um, that, that I. And it's a fun book, I think, to read, so I always recommend that one.

Speaker B: Finance leaders love that book. And again, it's, uh, and it's, it's not a. What came out, came out in the late 80s or something, or 90s.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: In any case, we are up to our final question. Uh, and we'd like you to look forward finally for us. Sanoi, uh, what are your priorities for

Speaker A: the coming 12 months?

Speaker C: Uh, well, my priorities for the coming 12 months are from a business standpoint, we are entering some new markets and so really partnering with my go to market leadership to make sure that we are making the best decisions possible. So really empowering them with a lot of data. I was just looking this morning at like, this, you know, really more robust marketing analysis, um, that we're putting together for the marketing folks. So really empowering them with the data needed so we can make the right decisions in terms of the verticals that we want to go after, but also how we want to think about it. We're also doing a lot in terms of pricing and packaging. Um, and so it's going to be key for us to make sure that we're doing the proper packaging for the new products over the next, you know, 12 months. I say that on the technical side, you know, we're really trying to. I'm really trying to shift my finance team from reconciliations and busy work to thinking. Right. And so the flux analysis now is way more robust because the team doesn't have to spend all the time pulling together the flux. Right. And so we're trying to leverage AI to the maximum in order for us to have more insights. The same thing with my data team. I run the data team here and you know, we put together the board decks and everything. And it's part of like, like everything is automated up until the analysis. And then the analysis is where I want the humans to add the value. And so that part is getting really, really exciting because even on the. I mean, even in the slide creation now, the models are just so good. Twelve months ago, they couldn't do a slide for their life. It was clunky. It looked like, you know, like a blind person did it. Right now all of that stuff is beautifully put together. So now the challenge I think for, for all finance leaders is, well, how do we divert the energy and the resources of our teams to make sure they're doing really more value added work? And I'm excited about that.

Speaker B: Snowy Turero, thank you for joining us on CFO Thought Leader.

Speaker C: Well, thank you, Jack. It was fun to be here. We'll see. I'll see you again in another six years.

Speaker A: Foreign. Hello. We're benchmarking the CFO path. Join 500 finance leaders helping define how today's CFOs rise and lead. If you're a CFO or senior finance executive, contribute your experience. It takes just a few minutes and you'll receive early access to the findings. Visit CFO Thought Leader.com Benchmarking.