Self-Image As a Business Strategy: The Framework Every CEO Needs

Speaker A: I think it's because of what society has told us. On one hand, we're like, oh, you need to be beautiful to be successful. And then you have another group of people saying, oh, but if you choose to focus on your looks and your appearance, then you are superficial. You've sort of sold out on feminism. And I think there's like a beautiful in between.

Speaker B: I really love going back to, like, what feels good for me is really important. And that goes back with the self concept and the self worth.

Speaker A: You get to define what's beautiful and make sure you're included in that definition. So, for example, if you've been looking around in your defin definition of beauty is like, you have to be a 6:1 model and you have to have, you know, curvy hips, and that's not how God made you. Why would that be your definition of beauty? You've excluded yourself. So it's like finding what is, uh, beautiful and making sure that you are a part of that definition. Because beauty comes in all shapes, all sizes, all colors. And it's like making sure that your definition of beauty includes you.

Speaker B: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the CEO School podcast. I'm your host, Sunira, and we are just. I'm so thrilled for today's episode because I have Tonya Lee with me today, and she is not just a fellow podcaster who is literally on her almost 500th episode. Her podcast is this the Art of Becoming. And it's all about not only mastery of your life and style and design and your self concept as a woman, and she also has the school of self image where she actually teaches all of the foundations and mastery around this entire concept of really loving yourself, owning yourself, your self concept, but how it fits into the design of your life and the style of your life and just living it in full confidence and everything that we need, not only as busy women CEOs and just in this world that we live in. So, Tanya, welcome to CEO School. I'm so excited to have you.

Speaker A: Thank you. I'm so grateful to be here.

Speaker B: No, I have so many questions. We've just been getting to know each other a little bit better. Um, um, you know, I. I was telling Tanya I probably had, like a weird intro start to her now because I was like, I need to get to know her further as, like, a person. I was asking her personal life questions. We've actually never met in person. And I actually don't take a lot of pitches from guests, um, that come on the show because there's. We get Four episodes a month. There's so many incredible women to interview. So your profile really stood out to us to like for you to be here. Thank you so much for flying in. She flew in here to be with us today in Orlando. And I'm just so excited to have you because I think that this conversation is going to be really meaningful for our women. And so before we get deep dive into all the topics of everything that you teach and everything, um, that we're going to learn today, I'd love for you to just take us back to, you know, where did you get started? You know, in your history of starting all of this and the work that you do today.

Speaker A: Thank you. And thank you for having me. Such an honor. So I'll take you back to my early 20s. I was actually a critical care nurse. Okay. And I was, at the time, over 70 pounds heavier than I am today. I was a single mom. And I'll never forget, one night, I was working a night shift in the critical care unit, and this doctor turned to me and he said, who do you want to be? And it was such an interesting question, because I think as I was growing up, it was always, what do you want to do when you get older? You know? And for me, it was, you could either be a nurse, a teacher, or a secretary. That was basically the possibilities that were available to a girl like me. And so for him to ask me that question, I couldn't answer it. And so as I was driving home the next morning, I just kept thinking, like, who do I want to be? Do I even have a choice? Or is this something that was just predetermined for me? But there was one word that came up that I could not stop thinking about, and it was everything that I was told I shouldn't be. So just to give your audience a little bit of background, I grew up in a Pentecostal holiness church. So I don't know if you're familiar with this religion, but basically, I couldn't wear makeup. I couldn't go to dances. I couldn't wear swimsuits. It was like anything pleasurable was forbidden. And so the word that came up is, I wanted to be worldly. I wanted to be a worldly woman. Now, keep in mind, I grew up in the deep South. I had a deep Southern accent. This word again, was everything that I wasn't at the time. But I kept thinking about, why not? Like, why couldn't I become a worldly woman? Why couldn't I learn about culture and art and design and style and Fashion. And so I started playing around with this word. This one word changed my life, literally. I started to think about what is a worldly woman? What does she read, where does she go, how does she carry herself, how does she speak, how does she treat herself? And little by little, I started to become this woman that I imagined. I ended up going to sommelier school, which, again, in my religion, wine, alcohol was forbidden. So I was like, but why not? I was always interested in the world of wine. I went back to school to Boston University and got a liberal arts degree. And next thing you know, I am creating food and wine programs. I am, um, becoming a food and wine writer.

Speaker B: And this is while you're nursing.

Speaker A: While I'm nursing. Okay. I'm doing. It's like my little side hustle.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: A little side quest that I had. And then I end up in France. And France changed my life. Truly. It was there that was able to see, like, this is how I want to live my life.

Speaker B: How did you go from, you know, kind of taking us back here from being so closed from the world. Mhm. To then being like, I'm going to go, you know, become a sommelier, I'm going to travel to France and I'm going to do all these, like, where does. Let's kind of deep dive into that. How did that shift just happen? Especially around. If you grow up in a community or as, you know, specific religion, you don't really have much. You don't have choice. Right. Like, your thoughts are chosen for you or everything's chosen for you. That's a big shift to just go from, you know, being just asked, hey, what is it that you want to become?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: To then being like, okay, I've got this. How did you. How did you manage that transition so effortlessly or so quickly as, like, we're just, you know, how did it happen?

Speaker A: It wasn't quick.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, you have to think about. This was over the course of a decade.

Speaker B: Okay. It was a decade.

Speaker A: Okay. So it was like the little things, things that you do every single day. It's like choosing to read a different book. It's choosing to listen to something differently. Is choosing even a different way to drive to work? It's all of these little changes in your environment and how you're showing up. One day you wake up and you're

Speaker B: like, oh, my God, did you leave the church?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, and was that, you know, I'm sure that that was a lot of. I've had friends that have left different, other kinds of religions and They've been really isolated from their families, and it's very lonely in going through that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, but that's the one thing that I'm blessed to have, is a very close family. They all thought I was going crazy, but we all love each other dearly. And one of the things that I learned early on is you just have to stay so committed to your vision and trust that the right people are going to stick around and the wrong ones are going to fall off.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And that's the hardest to do when it's your family.

Speaker B: That's really tough. I mean, that. That's really, really tough. I, uh. That's really brave. It's very brave. There's probably a lot of women that are listening that might be stuck in. Maybe it's not a religion, but stuck. That word of feeling stuck and whatever that looks like for them. It's really tough to make those changes because there's so much. There's fear. There's fear and loss. There's loss of identity. There's loss of people. There's loss of yourself. Like, it's really tough to make that change. M. And there is that shift, even if it's those small shifts, but it's a decision that you ended up choosing, that I'm going to make that change and pursuing it. And it worked out amazing for you. But it's tough to do.

Speaker A: It is. It's very, very scary. Um, and I like to think we're never stuck. We're just afraid. And I think just admitting, hey, I'm afraid, and getting clear on what you're afraid of, that's when you can really address it and be like, okay, this is my fear. Who do I have to become to overcome this fear? And, you know, being willing to feel hard emotions is the process of change.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: M. It's like that, to me is like the currency that you pay to have your dreams is the ability to feel difficult emotions, which so many of us, no one ever taught us how to do.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: So we're turning to food. We're turning to anything to not feel. Feel a negative emotion. But I'm like, isn't it interesting how your fear feeling really just vibration in your body is holding you back from your dreams? Because that's all it is.

Speaker B: It really is. And that. That's across everything. Entrepreneurship, life, everything else. It's that moment. It's that. It's the choice of choosing the uncomfortable.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Choosing that unknown. And our bodies are designed to. To protect us. Like, that's what our brain is doing. It's. The fear mechanism is a healthy mechanism because it's saying, hey, we. We don't know if it's safe. We don't know if it's safe. But in order for us to break through, we have to choose that fear. We have to choose it. We have to choose.

Speaker A: How did you do it?

Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Well, that's for probably another episode. My audience knows how I chose it. I had also an incredible support system. I had an incredible family around me who really believed in me, probably more than I believed in myself. I had a really strong father. I had a really strong mother. I grew up in a house that paid attention to me, that we sat down and knew my capabilities and really made me feel like I could accomplish. Accomplish anything in the world. And every time that I didn't choose myself, I was reminded of, well, why not you?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it wasn't my own natural thought. It was. There was my cheerleaders around me who were like, why wouldn't you go? My dad was the one who was like, why wouldn't you go? You know, start a payments company. Your bosses can do it, so why can't you? And I'm like, dad, where do I go find Ms. Revisa. And I was just. I was just fearful of, like, the unknown, of how. Yeah, it wasn't even around failing. It was just I didn't know how. And his response, like, I can go back to that exact moment and I share it often, is really the fact that he's like, well, what's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to fail. Like, what's the. That's the worst. That you tried it and it didn't work out. That's the worst thing that's going to happen. And I think that that's probably the, um. When the fear is there. Truly asking yourself, like, what is the worst that's gonna happen? All right, like, doing something uncomfortable, taking that shot, starting that podcast, you know, le. Like, you know, setting a boundary, whether it's with friends or whether it's with your spouse or whatever the. Whatever the fear is life and business life and all of really is about pausing what's the worst that's gonna happen? And usually that worst is not that bad. Right. Like, it's. It's not that bad. Someone might. They'll, you know, our fears are actually about our own self.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's. What will they think? It's, you know, mostly about, you know, what are about being alone, about disappointing someone else. It's Actually not about the outcome of what's going to happen. We're okay with that. We're afraid of the inner work, which is what we're going to get to, which is the self concept. Because if we can actually fix that and be confident in that, then we're more comfortable to take fear 100%.

Speaker A: And you know what I've realized? The worst thing that can ever happen is a feeling.

Speaker B: The worst thing that can ever happen.

Speaker A: It's always a feeling.

Speaker B: Really? Yeah. That is. That is it.

Speaker A: That is the worst thing that can happen. And so when you learn how to feel your emotions and understand them, you're no longer afraid. We're not afraid of people judging us. We're afraid of the feeling they're going to have when people judge us. But I don't think we realize that that's what we're afraid of. And so I always tell women, I'm like, isn't it a shame you didn't go after the life you wanted only because you were afraid of feeling a feeling? And once you're not afraid to feel a feeling, then the world is yours. It's like, limitless.

Speaker B: Um, I want to go straight into it, but I want to go back to France. But I want to come back to this question.

Speaker A: Let's go all the places.

Speaker B: Yeah, I want to go all the places, but I want to know, how do you not feel the. Like you just feel the feeling.

Speaker A: You learn how to feel an emotion.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Like, learning how to feel it. And when I say feel it, I'll never forget I was going through a really difficult time in my life. And. And my best friend at the time, her best friend was another best friend that she had, was a psychiatrist from Harvard. And so we were all sitting in a room together, and I was telling. Asking him, like, sean, tell me what to do. And he was like, sit with it. I'm like, what do you mean, sit with it? Like, give me something to get out of it. And he was like, sit with it. And that's all he would say. But I later learned how powerful that statement was, because what he was saying is like, learn to sit with a negative emotion. Don't run from it. Don't run from the opportunity. Don't run from the failure. Don't run from the emotion. Just learn to sit with it. And when you realize it's just a vibration in your body, then you're not afraid of it anymore. And so I think about probably all of the emotions you had to sit through to create stacks? Right?

Speaker B: I Know, but this episode's not about me. And I see what you're doing here, Tanya. We're gonna go back to France now. We're gonna go back to France. So you. What happened in France?

Speaker A: So in France, I was walking through the Luxembourg Gardens.

Speaker B: Okay. Beautiful.

Speaker A: And I was just a country bumpkin, you know, girl from the deep South. And it was there that I was looking around and I saw lovers kissing. I saw women reading books. I saw very fashionable women walking through the pea gravel. And I'll never forget, I stopped and said, oh, my God, these people are French Kissing life.

Speaker B: Their what?

Speaker A: French kissing life.

Speaker B: Their French kissing life.

Speaker A: Uh, yes. And so I was like, I want to live my life like this. And so I started playing around with, how do I have all of this ambition and the sense of ease that I felt in Paris? And so I came home playing with that question. They seem like two opposites, but I believe there's a way you can combine the two and have immense ambition as a woman. And also a sense of elegance and ease, I believe that in the pursuit of it. And so I started playing around with this at home, with how I showed up, with how I cooked, with how I just live my life. And people started paying attention, especially women. They're like, what's happening? Like, you're changing. Something's going on. And I would just say, I'm, um, French Kissing Life. And they're like, what is that? Well, I ended up creating a company called French Kiss Life.

Speaker B: French Kiss Life, that was my first brand. And what year was that?

Speaker A: That was in. Let me think. What year was that? Was about 12 years ago. Okay.

Speaker B: And what was the first concept of French Kissing Life? Who were the customers? What did you like? What was the service? How are people signing up for French Kissing Life?

Speaker A: Well, I started running retreats in Paris.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So that was one of the offers. And then I created a program called Slim, Chic and Savvy.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Because my whole issue had been around my body image and weight. And so this was looking at weight loss through the lens of pleasure, through the lens of self image, through the lens of style, which I'd never seen done before. And that became such a popular program that I ran for many, many years. And then in 2020, during COVID I realized. I didn't realize at the time that it was all self image work, but that's when it occurred to me, like, everything I'd ever created boiled down to this one concept called self image. And. And so I opened the school of self image in 2020 and the School of self image.

Speaker B: Now, can you walk us through, you know, who it's for and what happens in the school of self image?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I work primarily with women, but self image is applicable to men as well. But I just have a heart for women. And so we have women from all walks of life, all different parts of the world, and the thing that we work on is self image. And so we do it through mindset, which is the basis of everything. But we also look at it through the lens of style and your environment, because style and environment really shape how you see yourself. I like to say what surrounds you, gets inside of you. And so we are all about being intentional with the spaces that we create for ourselves, the people that we hang out with. We're also very intentional with how we show up. Now, when I talk about style, I think sometimes people think, oh, she's going to talk about designer and haute couture.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And I'm like, no, it's not about that at all. It's about you knowing what you love. It's knowing what you value and expressing that on purpose through your style, through what you wear. And so those are the three pillars of self image that we focus on.

Speaker B: So mindset, style and surroundings. Surrounding environment. Yeah, uh, environment. Okay, so mindset, style and your surroundings. Let's go through each one of those because I love to unpack that. And like, what are the most, like, what are the things that you see women struggle with the most? You know, clearly our, you know, our entire podcast, our entire audience is women. We're really highly ambitious. These are the most successful CEOs, founders that are listening to this episode. What are the things that you see that, you know, that she struggles with? From a mindset perspective?

Speaker A: From a mindset perspective with entrepreneurial women in particular, it's this whole proving energy, like needing to prove you're worthy. Yes. And so if you think about it, when I like to say the energy that you create the thing is how you experience the thing. And so when you're coming from this fear based, anxious, like, proving energy, it's always like, it's never enough. You can hit the milestone. I know I have and still felt empty, like, oh, it must be in the next one. And so you keep throwing these bones out in front of you. And so that's the work I love to do. Like, you're already worthy now. What. What do you want to create from that space? And so that's a really big one that I see.

Speaker B: And I fully. I think that's 100% spot on. Like that is 100% spot on. And especially, you know, as entrepreneurs, most of us are type A. We're ambitious. We're ambitious because we're trying to prove something. Right. Like we're proving something. We've got, we've got something to build, something to prove something. And that's also works in our favor.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That's what works in our favor. Because we are hungry, we are determined and we're going to not take that no for an answer. We're going to keep, you know, keep going because we want to prove that we can do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so that, that was a huge part of my journey as well. But how do you balance that?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, ambition and needing to have that level of like to, you know, that hunger to prove.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Versus doing it from this like really effortless French way. Of like just being the French way. Like the French kiss way. Right. Like how do I do it with ease and not have that need to prove?

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think one of the concepts I think could be very helpful to think about is that we all have success strategies.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: These are the strategies that we have used in life to be successful. And as you said, they work until they don't. I m think there comes a point where we're like, huh, I've been proving so long that I need something else. And breaking up with a success strategy that's given you so much success is one of the hardest things you'll ever do. But you can't get to the next level until you let go of the success strategy that's gotten you here. And so I find that a lot of women, when they get to a certain point, when you're making, you know, multiple seven figures and beyond, you're over that success strategy. You're tired. You're like tired of proving. And one of the best things that I've seen in my life is bringing in a sense of play again M. A playfulness, like reaching the goal, but doing it with a sense of creativity and play. Because I find that that's what so many women are missing in their lives right now. Everything is so serious.

Speaker B: Can you give some examples of some of the women that you know that are in the group or that are in your network or things that you see? Because I think there's something fun here because you're right. Like it is so serious. Like it does. And plus getting to that point of, you know, that seven figure mark or that, you know, there's so much, there's so Much work. Right. Like, we're so determined, heads down. That we don't get time to play and we don't get time to enjoy. And that's a choice. Right. We're, like, choosing that as well. But talk to me a little bit more about this play, because how do you bring in that creativity or that play?

Speaker A: Well, I don't know about you, but I live by my calendar.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I schedule play into my calendar, and what that looks like is I have free time. That's one of the first things that goes on my calendar. It's not all of my to dos. I'm like, if I don't schedule this, it'll never get done.

Speaker B: Is your. Your free time that gets scheduled free time? I love that. That's the opposite of how I start my. My calendar week. Yeah. I'm like, I do schedule my workouts, and I've, uh. That has something been like, that's the only way that it gets done. I schedule date night in. I schedule workouts in. And then. And the kids stuff. And then everything else kind of goes. But play is what I don't. I don't schedule play.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's like, one of the first. And for me, it's just free time because I feel like we're so used to being productive.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That we think every minute has to be producing something. And I think just our feminine nature wants time to just be.

Speaker B: I agree with that. I've. I've recently been, um. You know, last couple of solo episodes, I've been. I'm just so exhausted from the masculine versus feminine conversation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: In business. In life. And I feel I'm a very feminine person. And, like, I feel very feminine in my feminine, and I feel very masculine in business. And that's okay. That I am. I can get done. And it's. I'm very masculine in business or. But I don't think business is masculine or feminine. It's just. There's moments of, like, my feminine at work where I'm a great leader and I'm empathetic and. And there's also my masculine in me of just, like, I just need just a contract. Like, I don't need to put that much emotion into every part of, like, my day. And so I think business doesn't necessarily have to be feminine or masculine. And I think that one of the things that I've, like, come to conclusion with, that I shared is, like, I'm totally okay. And I think as women, the propaganda on business, on, like, leading in our feminine, leading in Our feminine is actually doing us a little bit of a disservice. Cause I'd rather just get in, get my stuff done, make money, do the contracts, do the things. Not saying not to do it with emotion, but my feminine is actually my free time. My feminine is actually being with my kids, being able to shut it off and, like, go pick up my kids from school. Being able to have, like, my Fridays fully free so I can go do my workouts and go, like, be at home and go do whatever I want. And that, to me is being in my feminine is when I get to be with my kids, with my family, in my home. And that is. That's where I want to be. And so it's okay for me to not put so much emotion into everything in my feminine at work. Uh, because I could just move through it faster.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And so I just. It's been a huge conversation for me in our audience recently of masculine versus feminine, masculine versus feminine. It's like, can we not just. We are both. Like, we can be both.

Speaker A: You have to be both.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: To be a woman in business, you need the masculine. You also need the feminine. And it doesn't have to be equally balanced and work. I love what you said. Your feminine is your play time.

Speaker B: It's your feminine is my play time. It's my free time. And I love that you're scheduling that in. I guess, like, if I think about it, like, in my first journey, right. Building the first company, I didn't do a lot of that. It was like, super, you know, now it's like, okay, I can close my laptop, like, every Friday. Like, I'm not working on Fridays. Fridays, 12 o'. Clock, like, it is done.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that is, like, part of, like, what you design is what I understand of, like, how you're doing the work is just by being intentional of designing it. I kind of want to go back to the mindset stuff because I don't think it's a one and done thing. No, it's constant. Like, our mindset is shifting every day

Speaker A: and I've, like, every minute.

Speaker B: I have to bring me back to, like. No, I know better.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: How do. What do you practice to keep in that ease mindset?

Speaker A: I start with the feeling first. So what I mean by that is if I'm feeling anxious, fearful, doubtful, that's, uh, a signal to go in and fix your mind. Like, what's going on? What are you thinking? And I've been doing this work for so long, I can identify the thought and shift it. Like, Immediately, but it's first noticing how are you feeling. And I think as women, we're just so used to going through the motions, getting stuff done. It's like, do you know how you feel?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you know what's going on inside of you? And so for me, it's just that constant awareness of what's going on inside.

Speaker B: So you check it, check it, you feel it, feel it. Sit. And then you shift.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, how do you shift?

Speaker A: You can shift through changing your thought, shifting that thought. I teach a concept called the thought ladder because it's hard to go from. I have no time to have all the time in the world because your brain's gonna be like, you're lying to yourself. And so learning how to ease up the thought ladder so you don't have cognitive dissonance is a huge part of that. But sometimes it's just shifting your focus, like shifting to what you're grateful for, shifting for all the ways that you are doing an amazing job in life. Shifting to what you know is abundant in your life, that can shift your state just like that as well. And then sometimes it's putting on a different outfit.

Speaker B: Okay. Which is the style. Which goes to part two. So shifting it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I like the thought ladder concept. For me, what comes to mind is like, if you want to wake up, uh, at like your new time of like if you want to do 5am and you're waking up at 6, you're not going to go from like your 6am to 5am you have to do it incrementally. Yeah, right. Like you're like just 10 minutes. 10 minutes. 10 minutes. So I like this concept of the thought ladder.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You're not going to be able to give some bullshit affirmation to yourself and be like, I've, you know, I am, um, like I, I'm. I'm like, you know, not that I am worthy is not. That's a great affirmation. But whatever the, whatever the, the concept is.

Speaker A: Yeah, right.

Speaker B: That I have all the time in the world. When you have no time in the world and then be like, we're there. What. How do you shift that? Can you share some of that thought? Like, how do you.

Speaker A: So give me a thought. Give me.

Speaker B: I don't have any time. I have no time.

Speaker A: Okay. I don't have any time. First of all, you have to realize that's just a thought.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: That's not a fact. Right. So we look at facts versus fiction. That's what I call it. And so I have no time. You can't go to have all the time in the world. So I love to start with, I just keep thinking I don't have time. Just that one little shift. It gives you awareness of like, oh, I just keep thinking this thought and it feels a little bit better. And from there you just go up another rung of the ladder and maybe it's, you know, I'm looking at how to create more time and that feels a little bit better.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so then your reticular activating system's like, oh, she's asking us to look for something different. How can we create more time? And then you keep just inching up as I like that many increments as you need to, to get to where you want to be until you're like,

Speaker B: I've got all the time in the world.

Speaker A: Well, the whole time you're collecting evidence.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: For each of these new thoughts until suddenly you're like, oh, I have time. And now you've created evidence for it.

Speaker B: I love that. So mindset, this is how we're shifting the thought, shifting the mindset. And then you said, put on an outfit. Put on an outfit, Put on an outfit. Like, let's put on an outfit. Where does style come into all of this? Because I'm dying to get to know, like, this part of your framework.

Speaker A: Well, I love knowing that style tells a story before you say a word.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: We live in a very visual world and we also live in an energetic world. So how you dress is determining the energy that you put off as well as what you are showing visibly to the world. And so I don't believe in dressing to impress other people. I believe in dressing to impress yourself. And that's going to look different for every single woman. Mhm. It's like, what makes you feel most like you? What? What clothes addresses your unique values, what clothes align with where you're going and that's how you need to be showing up every single day. And it can shift your state like that. I don't know about you, but there have been days where I woke up and my mood wanted me to grab sweats and not do my hair.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And moods love to feed themselves.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So you just feed this bad mood. But the moment I put on something that makes me feel better, I'm putting my energy in a different direction. And so clothes are one of the tools that you can use to build better.

Speaker B: I love that. I fully agree with this and I, I mean, I share this often with our audience and especially when it was during like the pandemic and everything else. Like still put on your clothes and like show up to work. You can't show up to work in your sweatpants. You're not going to be productive, you're not going to feel powerful. Things are not going to move, things aren't going to get done. And at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, we are being judged on that first interaction. We uh, are, we're literally making every decision about the person we're sitting in front of. About even whether it's virtual or not. We read, we judge a book by its cover. Like whether, whether it's right or wrong. It's how our brains are processing information. And we are literally showing up in a way that doesn't fully represent and show up like how we want to be represented. And I think that for women it is, I'm sure you, you know, all the stats as well. It's, it's worse. Like we are, we are 100 judged for our appearance more than men. And it literally actually correlates to the dollars that we make. Mhm. So it actually correlates. Women who dress poorly at the office, dress poorly at work, or aren't showing up with makeup. Like literally women who are not showing up in makeup make less money than their counterparts and they're, it's. And I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, I'm just sharing what the facts are. And so I always say we're not changing the game. We gotta learn the rules and we gotta learn how to play the game if we want to win. If we want to win the game. Yes, we have to. And uh, it is, it's a real thing. And I also think not just for other people though. Right. So what you said is most important because yes, it does make a difference in how others perceive us. But I believe like when I dress, when I'm, when I feel great and I feel beautiful, I feel confident.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And if I feel confident that I show up, I'm able to show up differently. I'm able to, you know, I'm like, I'm able to show up at my highest best self because I'm not thinking about, well, how do I look, or, you know, or I've got this or I've got like, I feel super confident. Like I feel comfortable to show up on camera, I feel comfortable to show up in person. Like all the things. But it comes from my confidence.

Speaker A: Yeah. Even getting my nails done, there was a period where I was not getting my Nails done.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I noticed whenever I was on Zoom, I. I had shame. I didn't want to hold my hands up to the camera. And I'm like, just go get your nails done. And then you don't have to think about it. It's not a big deal. And so it's doing those little things for yourself that really do impact how you feel about yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think that the difference, I will say is, like, it's not for myself as parts of it, I guess it's for myself. Like, I've always been someone that I really do care. I care about what I put on every day. I care about how I show up every day. I want to wear the sweats. And I will tell you, Sundays are my. I love doing like, uh, no, like, no makeup. And I get to be in like, m. Me and my girls will do like a. Like, how long can we wear our pajamas? Like, that is a ritual that, you know. Like, I love a day where I don't have to see people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's just our families. That kind of happens most Sundays. But I feel like I'm not one. I don't think of like my nails. I think of it as a chore. Mhm. You know, and so for me, I don't know if that's a mindset shift, but these are things that I have as part of my routines that I have to groom and take care of myself to be presentable as a CEO and as a leader. And I literally will go run through. And it's such a chore. I don't play because I'll never have fun colors. Like, I literally go through three. The three same shades that I go through. I go through a French. I go through bubble bath. And um. Is it funny bunny?

Speaker A: Funny, funny, funny bunny.

Speaker B: It's funny money. It's funny money. Those are the three. Because, you know, y', all, the white to nail ratio looks bad on anything else. What do you. I want a red. I want a pink. I want a fun. I wanted something else. I just don't have the time capacity to think about it. So if I run through those three in rotation, no matter when you'll find me, I don't have to think about my nails. Even if I missed a week and I wasn't at my appointment for the third week or whatever, it goes a little bit longer.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Is that, uh, like the wrong way to be?

Speaker A: No. I think one of my favorite quotes is by Hoffby's where he says, between right doing and wrongdoing, there's a field. I will meet you there.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: There's no right or wrong here.

Speaker B: No. But my mindset, it's a chore. It's not.

Speaker A: It's a chore for me.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: But I enjoy the uh, the uh, benefit.

Speaker B: The benefit.

Speaker A: Right. I don't love going to get my nails done.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: In fact, I hate it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, but I love the feeling of it. I love having my nails done. And so it's just one of those things that you just do get it done.

Speaker B: I love feeling beautiful. Like that is something that I do love. I want, I love looking amazing. I feel proud of myself when I like, I'm put together, I look amazing. How does, like, how does this apply to women in a day to day that they're like, maybe this doesn't really apply to me in my, in my job or on my teams or on whatever. Like, what are some of the pushbacks that you get on this style? What are the biggest things that, when you go to, when you, when you talk about mindset and then you're in phase two of style, what happens? Are you doing like a, uh, uh, like walk me through your process?

Speaker A: Well, some women will say style is bane. It doesn't really matter. And I always say that's like saying your home doesn't matter. Like, I'm just not going to take care of my home. I'm not going to care to decorate it. I'm going to not paint the walls. To me it's the same. Same comparison.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so it's them learning how style is impacting their lives. And if they like it or not.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: I mean it really is that simple.

Speaker B: But do the.

Speaker A: I'm not saying you have to, to dress up, but do you want to. And is there's just. Is uh, there some underlying societal conditioning that you've been taught that makes you resistant to it?

Speaker B: And what do you find for most women?

Speaker A: I think most women want to feel beautiful.

Speaker B: Yeah. I, of course, I do agree. I agree with that. But then why are we choosing not to feel beautiful?

Speaker A: That's a great question. I think it's because of what society has told us. On one hand we're like, oh, you need to be beautiful to be successful. And then you have another group of people saying, oh, but if you choose to focus on your looks and your appearance, then you are superficial. You've sort of sold out the, the femininity or the, you're sold out on feminism. And I think there's like a beautiful in between where we get to find what feels good for us.

Speaker B: I think it really is finding. I really love going back to like what feels good for me is really important and that goes back with the self concept and the self worth. But I think the reason why we could be like where. What comes to my mind when I ask that question to you, what comes to me is like just standards of beauty. It's impossible.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: To live up to the standards of beauty. And that's like what it's capitalism for the last however long. And you know, beauty standards look a certain way, beauty standards are a certain way. And that's also. That hasn't evolved much. Like it just feels exhaustive.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: From a never ending feel of it. How do you counter like what, what would be your shifts in the like that you talk about?

Speaker A: One of the first things that I ask a woman to do is to define beauty for herself. You get to define what's beautiful and make sure you're included in that definition. So for example, if you've been looking around and your definition of beauty is like you have to be a 6:1 model and you have to have, you know, curvy hips and that's not how God made you. Why would that be your definition of beauty? You've excluded yourself. So it's like finding what uh, is beautiful and making sure that you are a part of that definition.

Speaker B: I love that because beauty comes in

Speaker A: all shapes, all sizes, all colors. And it's like making sure that your, your definition of beauty includes you.

Speaker B: So we've got all VCOs listening. What are the. So that would be like we love doing like I want them to take notes. They're like ready to take action. So one, they're, they're asking themselves that question.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Of like what does beauty mean to me? Include m myself in it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And now I've defined what does beauty mean to me. What is part two?

Speaker A: Part two is to begin to incorporate that into your everyday.

Speaker B: Okay, how. What Give me some examples.

Speaker A: Well, it depends on what their definition is. But if their definition is beauty is someone who is kind. Beauty is some, someone who takes care of herself. Beauty is someone who wears hot pink. I don't know, like that's what I find beautiful. Then make sure that that's who you're being and how you're showing up in your daily life.

Speaker B: And how do you not let mood affect those decisions? Like because mood is what you're saying. It totally takes over.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. Where she's like, I'm grabbing the sweatpants. Hot mess mom bun. It's just easier. How does she shift habit into practice?

Speaker A: Yeah, I like to say moods come and go. It's just like the ebb and flow of the tide. And so you have to be more dedicated to the vision of who you are than you are your moods.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And you also have to understand, as I was saying earlier, moods love to feed themselves. So if you're in a bad mood, notice what you focus on. Notice what you want to grab to put on, notice what you want to eat. You're probably going to notice that you're just feeding that bad mood. So if you want to be in a different mood, you got to feed something different. So I always love to think the person that, you know, the version of me that's in a good mood. What would she be wearing? What would she be eating?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: What would she be thinking? And then practice her.

Speaker B: Well, we practice that, uh, at CEO school with, like, defining our highest leader. Like, what would she do? Mhm. In action, in business. It's a similar concept here in how she's showing up in her life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now part three is design. Can you talk me through how is she designing her environment?

Speaker A: Environment, yeah. This has been the biggest one for me.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: I mean, style I love and has a huge impact, but environment has been the number one thing that has allowed me to shift my mindset the most. And environment is, of course, your home, but it's also what you're consuming, who you're listening to, who you're hanging out with, the podcast that you're listening to, the books that you're reading. It's everything that you're consuming is a part of your environment. And I like to say that what surrounds you gets inside of you.

Speaker B: Mm.

Speaker A: So if you want new possibilities, new states of being, you need to surround yourself with those things that mirror it back to you.

Speaker B: I think that that's a hundred percent accurate and true. And I think that we were fed so much. Even the other. Like the other day on the show, I literally talked about doing just a cleanse on your social media and who you're following and we're getting fed. And once you start following something, it's literally showing you the same, same, same, same, same thing on your feed. And it's like it's, it's, it's toxic. It's toxic for your brain. It's toxic for how you're thinking and how you're showing up. And it does really matter. And who you surround yourself matters I think the most. Like, you are the company you keep. Period.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that is. It says a lot about you. Not just on what you. How your clothes say a lot about you, but the people you hang out with probably says the most about you as well.

Speaker A: Like.

Speaker B: Mhm. On, on your, on your company. How does she. Is there an audit that you do? Like how does she incorporate? Or what's next for her if she's like, okay, I want to audit my. You know, my environment gets to pay attention. Mhm.

Speaker A: That's like. The first step is to notice what in your environment is draining you. Is it a particular group of friends that you're hanging out with? Is it clutter in this corner of your office? Just noticing the impact of your environment and then choosing one area that you're going to elevate. One of the stories I love to tell is early on in my journey, I had this moment where I looked over at my bookshelf and it was depleting. It was all like, how to lose 10 pounds in 10 days. How to be happy. It was just all of these fix me books. Like, you're broken. You need to fix yourself. And I didn't even realize that's what that bookshelf was doing. But I remember having this realization and I thought about the worldly woman. I was like, huh, huh, what's she reading? It was none of these books. And I got rid of every single book and I started to bring in books on design, travel, art. I started reading fiction again and I, you know, it's funny, but I do think that changing my bookshelf changed my life.

Speaker B: I love that.

Speaker A: Uh, because it was mirroring something completely different back to me. Like, oh, this is who you're becoming. You're no longer this girl that sees herself as broken. You see yourself as this worldly woman. So noticing how these things in your environment are either keeping you in a self image that's not serving you or they're elevating in you, you into who you're becoming.

Speaker B: I love that. So it's just simply just noticing, noticing the things around you, noticing the people around you and noticing going back to how we started was the feeling.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. So it comes back to the feeling always. And we can sit with the feeling and we can accept the feeling.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And we can move on from the feeling.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And become our highest, best worldly woman CEO. Fill in the blank. Fill in the blank. Whatever she is, whatever you want to become, it's possible because of those of that framework. I love that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, amazing. And how can we you know, learn more. This is so such an insightful conversation and episode. How do we find you? And you were just telling me she's on. I really want to congratulate you on this. I think it's really incredible. You are almost 10 years into your podcast. We are year six at co school, and I meet a lot of new podcasters. I don't meet a lot of OG podcasters. And it means that you've really built something really, really meaningful and passionate. Because if you can show up every week, uh, every week to support others, there's real purpose and meaning behind it for something to be that consistent long. And I really, I see that. I know the work in that. And so congratulations. I can't wait to actually tune into the show. We'll be linking the show as well into our show notes. How can we find you and how can we support you and become, um, this amazing version of ourselves?

Speaker A: Thank you. Well, you can find me at the School of Self Image podcast. And for your audience, I am making available a class that I taught called the Elegant Success Framework. So it goes back to the question, how do you combine ambition with ease? It's about the mindset shifts that need to be made so they can go to schoolofselfimage.com success and they can get access to that class.

Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you so much for that. We'll be linking everything in our show notes today. If you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review below. That's how we grow the show. Send this to the woman that needs to hear this and this to your mom, to your sister, to your fellow CEO. And of course, if you loved it, tag Tanya. She's on social media. I'll be linking her bio into the show notes. Tag us. Share the podcast. We actually have a new handle for the SEO School podcast. So we've actually. We still have the SEO School page, but because we're always sharing other pieces of content, there's so much great content behind the scenes on the podcast that I don't want you to miss. So we actually are now at the CEO School podcast as well, so be sure to tag that account, Follow along, and I can't wait to see you on next week's episode of the SEO School podcast. I'll see you soon. Bye, everyone.