Episode 18: Accurate Data Allows for Better Promises and Commitments

Speaker A: Welcome to Cargo Shorts, brought to you by Old Dominion Freightline. I'm your host, Samantha Jones. Today we're here to talk about the importance of data accuracy in your LTL shipping operations. Getting your data right does far more than facilitate on time deliveries and reduce disputes. There are effects that can be felt all across a company, not to mention an improved relationships with, with both your carriers and your customers. Today we're going to talk about why accurate data saves you time and money. Offer practical guidance for making sure you're getting the right data to all the right places, and talk about the ripple effects improved accuracy creates across a surprising number of business functions. Joining me today to discuss all of this are two experts on this topic. Greg Plemons, Chief operating Officer at Old Dominion Freightline, and Brian Walton, logistics manager at Douglas Dynamics. Hey guys, thanks for being here.

Speaker B: Hi. Thanks for having us.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, I gave you a brief little intro there, but would you guys mind maybe giving us a little bit of context into who you are and what you do and then we'll jump into some great conversation today?

Speaker B: Sure. Well, I'll start. I'm Greg Plemons, as you said, chief operating officer for Old Dominion. I've been with the company almost 29 years and, uh, more than I can count in this industry. It's really, uh, kind of, kind of all I've ever done. I, uh, I love it. There's never a dull moment, for sure.

Speaker C: And. Hi, Samantha, thank you for having me today. Uh, I'm the logistics manager at Douglas Dynamics and we're North America's premier manufacturer and outfitter of commercial work truck attachments and equipment. So being a leader in the snow and ice control industry, uh, we are looking forward to the winter. Um, I've been here at Douglas for 15 years, worked, uh, in a variety of roles, from customer service to operations planning, shipping and receiving. And now I manage the transportation portion of our business. So, looking forward to the conversation.

Speaker A: Well, thank you both for being here and how appropriate stage setting. Brian, I'm sitting here in the middle of a blizzard in Kansas, so I'm hoping my WI fi is holding out for our conversation today as we get all this snow. Um, it's, it's great to have you both on the show and excited to talk through some of these topics. We have quite a bit, so I'm going to do my best to keep us moving through, um, the things I think people are really going to find interesting in this conversation. But I'd like to start by kind of doing a little bit of stage Setting from both of your perspectives. You guys obviously have similar but different perspectives on this topic and we've had a lot of change in the last year, the last five years, but certainly the last 10 years. So I just wanted to kind of ask you guys for your thoughts on how have um, shippers relationships with their data changed in the last decade as our industry has progressed.

Speaker C: Yeah, and since you said shippers Samantha, uh, I'll just jump right in there. Um, you know as, as a shipper like Douglas Dynamics, that has been the biggest change for us, is knowing our own data. Uh, we felt that uh, the industry has changed so much in the past few years, um, requiring that information to uh, ultimately determine freight classification. Uh, so we haven't had all the weights, all the dims. Um, we've learned so much over the years of just trying to figure that out. Uh, and that has been the key for us is, is knowing our data so that we can uh, ultimately pay the, the lowest cost, still have great service and get that to our customer in a timely manner.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think uh, I mean I agree with that. The industry, uh, I guess the importance of good quality data and the sharing of that data um, between partners is the biggest change I've, I've seen in the last few years. And you know we rely at Old Dominion heavily on the data to make good pricing decisions up front and to, and to give you know, the quality service that our customers are, have come to expect. So it's a welcome change. Uh, and I think uh, there's a lot more that can be done on the, on the data front for sure.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: And I want to ask Brian, you know, hearing from, from both of you guys there on data, we obviously have better visibility, we have more data now than we had previously. I think every year we're getting more and more data from all the tech and we're trying to figure out, you know, what, how do we use it and what do we do with it. That's our modern day problem. Right, but we didn't even used to have as much as we have. So from your perspective what's been, what's been impactful, Is it uh, that shippers are creating their own technology and implementing technology or is it also, you know, the fact that carriers are evolving their technology as well? So you're kind of getting data from two fronts.

Speaker C: Yeah, and that's a great point and you know, I'm going to give my perspective and then I'd like to hear Greg's as well because I believe the, the technology has, has really started at the carrier level.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And what I mean by that is, uh, many of the, the bulk terminals, even some of the local level terminals, they would implement technology like dimensioners, pallet dimensioners. Um, and, and that's where I was mentioning before is the carriers almost knew the data, our own, of our own product, better than we did. And so I think once we determine that, okay, carriers have the right information, we're getting a lot of re rates because we're not providing the correct information on our bill of ladings. Uh, we need to do something about that. We need to understand it better. So to Greg's point, there can be better collaboration. We can, we can figure out what works for the carriers, what works for, for us as a shipper. Um, and so that was, that was one of the key points, um, that I think we kind of go back to is we need the data to make good business decisions. So definitely wanted to get Greg's perspective on that as well from determining technology and how it's been used on the carrier side.

Speaker A: Greg, I'd love your thoughts on this too. And I was also kind of specifically thinking about how, uh, from my perspective, it seems that a lot of the data that carriers are collecting isn't just beneficial for the shippers. In fact, maybe at first it was more beneficial for your operations. Right. It's great data to turn over to the shippers, but we've also been able to advance the way we make decisions around load planning and preventing empty space and trailers. And we can't do any of that without knowing exactly what's going in those trailers. But then you get this great data and it's like, well, I bet, you know, Brian wants to know this stuff too, if they don't have that data. So it almost seems like maybe it started at the carrier level. Right. And it's. And it has a lot of beneficial benefits to your operations that then kind of get passed on to the shipper.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think that's true. I think you're both right. I know here at Old Dominion we invested heavily in the collection of good data on the front end, probably, uh, as you say, primarily to help, uh, with our own operations, our own planning systems and our cost model. But one of the big changes we've seen over the last few years in the industry is the sharing of that data in both directions. Right. And, uh, it's great to hear Brian's perspective and their willingness to invest in the collection of that data to cut down on the re Rating and really shippers can improve not only billing, rating accuracy, but also, uh, the service that they're getting from the carriers by providing good data early.

Speaker A: What about the service also that you're able to give to your customers, Brian, the people who are purchasing, you know, your products? Um, I have to imagine that data gaps were probably causing, you know, miss shipments, maybe late shipments or miscommunications. And so surely that has a downstream effect on your customer service capabilities as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, so absolutely. Um, we can, we can better serve our customers with, you know, better data, better real time visibility. If it's more efficient for the carrier, it's probably going to be more efficient downstream as you mentioned, for the customer. So, so we've actually improved a lot of our packaging, uh, so that it is better suited for the LTL environment. And what that has done too is it's increased our, our density not only in the trailers, but also for uh, storing the materials in our warehouses, in our customers yards. Uh, there's been a ton of improvements there, uh, like I mentioned, across the entire supply chain.

Speaker A: Well, you brought up packaging. I didn't even have to do it. I know everyone likes to talk about packaging. It's just a thing. So I did want to ask about, you know, we're talking about data, we're talking about data accuracy, but I wanted to be specific about like some of the data points we're actually talking about. And I felt like that was going to end up leading to a, uh, packaging conversation. So, so, um, you know, Greg, or, or Brian, thoughts on how, uh, some type of probably like consistency or at least complete accuracy. When we're talking about your freight profiles goes into this conversation. We're saying data, you know, but what is that data made up of? Probably the exact specifications of what it is you're shipping, the size, how it's packaged, all of this. So, um, any kind of thoughts on the ways that packaging comes into play here?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'll tackle that one. It's super important. Obviously, um, there's only so much space on a trailer and so to the extent we get good, accurate dimensions, good accurate density, even, uh, leading into the early pricing conversations, uh, if we understand the density of the product, we understand our cost to, to serve, you know, we can avoid those uncomfortable conversations down the road where we have to go back and revisit pricing. Um, so, and you know, shippers really can, can do a great deal on the front end with a simple tape measure and some scales. Right. There's technology that goes well beyond that. But you know, there's some investment there, but again, just good, accurate measurements of the product all the way to the extremes of the units. Not just, uh, you know, the dimensions of the boxes themselves, but you really have to take into account the palette and packaging around it and so forth. And so, uh, just some investment and training on the front end can really pay dividends down the road when it comes to packaging, not to mention avoiding damages and the obvious costs associated with those.

Speaker C: Yeah, Greg, I think that's key right there. You know, the more compact or the more dense your freight is, the better it's going to be be handled and how it's going to be, you know, stacked. I always talk about trailers, you know, you, you try to do a Tetris model. Right. So we've actually improved our packaging from a lot of the feedback from, from Old Dominion and carriers, you know, in the industry that are asking for things to be able to be stacked, you know, fully crated, more, um, protected. And, and so that, that's essentially made us better and it's ultimately helped the customer out as well. There are less claims, less damage, there's less clerical work, less communication going on. It, it becomes very smooth. Um, and you see that in the data, in the claims ratio dropping, uh, in your cost dropping just the time that you have. So we've always looked at, you know, manufacturing the best product we can do here, highest quality, uh, we're very well known, uh, with our, our Fisher Western Trinex brands, uh, within this division throughout North America. But essentially we haven't thought as much about packaging, you know, 10 years ago. And so as a lot of changes were happening in supply chain, as we were seeing, you know, some more damages occur, um, just some quality issues, service things, there was a lot of collaboration done, done between, you know, all parties and that's really made us all better. So it's that continuous improvement mindset.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: We encourage our customers to come visit our facilities and see exactly what goes on on an LTL dock, see the technology that we use to protect their freight, to maximize cube, see the planning systems that we use and why. It helps illustrate why good data on the front end is so important. And as an added benefit, they get to meet the team that does the work, uh, on their behalf. And it's still a relationship business at the end of the day and we love, you know, forming those relationships. So, uh, I think the collaboration point you made, Brian, is, is an important one.

Speaker A: I'm glad you brought that up. We're not going to be able to completely data our way out of every problem. Right. We're going to still need people to talk to each other.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Right. 100% and we can definitely use the data to make good decisions. But uh, there's, there's so much value in relationship building, um, really understanding uh, you know, your side of the world Greg, the challenges you have, the things that work, that don't work. We've always tried to be uh, as, as we call it, a shipper of choice. So if, if we can make improvements on our side, uh, that will help you, help you with your efficiency. Um, that's, that's what we focus on. You know it's got to be a two way street or, or even a uh, four way stop sign right. Where you have the shipper, the maybe the three PL involved, uh, the carrier and then the end user, customer. So you know, ensuring that we have that collaboration, you know, we do the same thing, invite carriers into our facilities, obviously give them a great tour of our, our products that we make here and manufacture but also really focus in on our staging area, our packaging, um, you know, meeting the drivers and building those relationships. So helps all around.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Right.

Speaker A: Well Greg has only a couple years on me in the industry I think cause I'm like seven years in. But um, I remember when I started, I have an LTL background, that's how I started in the space and um, where data was at then was. And it felt like it was a big transition period. Like we were just starting to get some of these new technologies now that are quite a bit more common. But what I have noticed is that the data is actually over time as we have it, it's helping to drive um, better decision making across multiple parts of, of the supply chain. Because you mentioned like your packaging and how it relates to claims or these sorts of things to be honest. Claims. There was a point in time when that was a difficult thing to really understand what was going on and why and where it was occurring. And um, especially if you had decentralized logistics control across your organization. And so it seems that you know, slowly but surely we have risen to the occasion. We've taken the data and we started to use it to actually make changes across our business that improve the experience that customers ultimately have, that consumers have. You know, you mentioned that you have a great brand, you're known for something and it used to be put it on a truck and cross our fingers. And we've gotten better as an industry over time because we're getting the data that we really needed. To actually be able to make ROI driven decisions because packaging can be expensive or it can be time consuming or it can be difficult and you had to be able to really justify with data like how big is the problem, how expensive is the problem, how much is it impacting our reputation or our customers? And so better data all around has helped give better visibility to the areas of opportunity to improve. From my observations. Never been a shipper, Brian, but I've talked to a lot of them. Um, it seems that's been a trend.

Speaker C: You're spot on. So you can pinpoint the root cause or you can identify the opportunity. And that's what we've always done here at Douglas as a shipper, like so many do, is you know, how do you make, how do you make it better every day, how do you have that continuous improvement process and, and, and build that process into uh, you know, a better working machine.

Speaker A: Uh, on that note, I'm, you might have been going this way, but I would like to get your guys's advice actually for how shippers can make their data correct, make, have improve their own data accuracy. What best practices have, have you found or seen that have made an impact? And just kind of, maybe we kind of give a little bit of advice here just from experience and what we've seen and observed and done.

Speaker C: Yeah, and it, and it goes back to the beginning. You know, what, what is data? And uh, yes it's, it's helpful but what do you do with that information? Uh, so obviously with a lot of changes in the industry, you know, there's, there's more requirements now you need to provide your actual uh, dimensions and, and weight of the pallet. Uh, so we have three divisions at Douglas Dynamics. And what's nice, I think about sharing with others is we have one division that still measures with a hand tape, measuring tape essentially to get the length, width and height. Uh, and then they put that on the scale and that's how they put that information into a TMS transportation management system. Their volume is a lot lower so they can do that. But that's what's working is putting all that information into the system that then selects the carrier and you know, essentially you get your correct density and freight classification. And then on the other side with a different division that, that I'm in, you know, we have automated that process. So uh, we have a tms but we also um, invested in a pallet dimensioner with Freight Snap. And so essentially we have installed three different dimensioners in three different locations. Uh, that is going to integrate with our erp. And so what that does is you put the pallet under the dimension or sorry, you put the pallet under the uh, dimension or you scan a barcode that the sensors then will take those dimms and weights, get the classification and then that, that is populated automatically onto our bill of latex. So those are, those, those are two different ways. Right now you can manually measure your pallets or you can integrate it into your, your processing system.

Speaker A: Do you have a, any advice on like, I'm sure some people might wonder, like how much would I need to be shipping volume wise to justify having a dimensioner? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Speaker C: I think it comes down to knowing what your, your re rates are. So if, if you're getting a lot of additional costs on the back end of the invoicing process, that's, that's where you can determine, you know, how, how much money is on the table. What do I need to go invest in?

Speaker A: Yeah. So one I'm hearing, obviously take the time to invest in the data accuracy. Whether that has to be measuring it with measuring tape and putting it on a scale or if you decide to go the route of a dimension or. But then Greg, such an excellent point that data accuracy, but then speed would be the second part of that. Like how soon can we get it to our carriers to fit my shipments into an optimal load plan, an optimal route for the carrier and fewer manual touches. Because I mean that's, let's be honest, that's the direction our whole world is going, especially you know, logistics operations. Um, can we reduce the amount of times tedious data entry has to be done and reduce the chance of making manual errors or mistakes as well that cause revisions. You didn't, you didn't say another option on your quote there. You said a right shipment usually goes right. And I'm thinking, and one that starts wrong, probably goes wrong, um, and I'm sure it hopefully ends up right, but I'm sure there's a lot of turbulence through the life cycle of that shipment. So how can you know by getting it right up front, we can significantly improve our experience throughout the life cycle of the shipment and the process of the final delivery as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's true. You, you hit it right, hit the nail right on the head. It's so we, we typically figure it out even if it's uh, you know, if we have to adjust midstream, we, we tend to, to uh, to figure it out. But there's costs associated with that. Right. And Then rework and, and rerating or what, you know, misloading, whatever the case, uh, may be. And so getting, you know, getting it started off correctly every time is key. And again, if we can bypass the human intervention, starting uh, with the bill of lading, that's uh, that, that reduces potential for error. Uh, if we can reduce the touches, it not only speeds the transportation of that shipment, but it reduces the uh, probability of damage. Right. The more you touch a shipment, the greater the likelihood of some sort of damage. And uh, we really have worked hard on that front, invested heavily in the collection of data and the technology that we use to protect these shipments. Because you know, we have to, our shippers, our customers are counting on us to deliver that shipment in perfect condition every time. And so we've, we've uh, we've really worked hard on that front and I think our results show it.

Speaker A: So I know that, I mean, Greg, you highlighted how important it is for pricing and costing for a carrier's operations to know exactly what you're getting and how it's going to work within your systems and your load plans. And if we can reduce manual intervention and touch points, then that operates more efficiently in our systems and maybe we can be more price competitive with this partner. And so that obviously could translate potentially to some savings for the shipper. But from the shipper standpoint, I've observed an interesting trend in that I was even on a walk before, it was blizzarding here a couple weeks ago and I saw a, uh, shipment getting an LTL liftgate delivery right down the street from me. And you know, I was just thinking how B2B customers increasingly like we, we expect, they expect B2C treatment and sometimes your customers are a C, you know, so, but, but we have these expectations that things move quickly and the price is up front and we don't have surprises and we don't get changes to invoices and all of these things that can um, be difficult to manage if you don't have good data as a shipper, but you want to provide a price on your website for shipping or you want to provide a quote up front and stand by it. And so Brian, I'd like your thoughts too on how this data and this partnership with your carriers actually restricts or allows you to, you know, offer your customers certain things up front when you, when you're confident in your data accuracy, you could probably make better promises and commitments on the front end of your shipments to your customers.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. So, so we can, we, we're able, you know, to, to dive into, you know, some of our, our transportation dashboards, you know, to look at, you know, all those different metrics from on time pickup to on time delivery, uh, the transit days, uh, what's the claims ratio. So uh, you know, having all that information on the shipper side, you know, then we're able to make better decisions to figure out, you know, what works for this customer, what works for this region. Uh, we can, you know, start to slice and dice the data to you know, create you know, either flat rate programs or uh, other, other ltl freight programs. So that's something we're working on right now is trying to, you know, give the customer consistency. Uh, so I think we've done a really good job in terms of, you know, getting the correct um, dimensional data so that, that flows through to our bill of ladings. But I think what we can also do is, is you know, use, use freight as you know, a business investment. So you know, if we can lower the freight cost in any way that will ultimately help us because it's going to be helping our customers, bottom line.

Speaker A: Yeah, really well put, Brian. I think you know, as uh, shippers, quote unquote, you evolve to meet the needs and expectations of your customers and providers. As I'm sure Greg can, can echo. We're always trying. We're evolving to improve our own operations but also meet the changing needs of you and your customers.

Speaker B: Yeah, just was just thinking about the onset of must arrive by date and on time in full and all the, the various acronyms that are associated with precision and accuracy Consignees more and more are associating scorecards, uh, with their uh, vendors and even some cases monetary chargebacks for non compliance. And so again it just more and more I think further emphasizes the importance of, of good quality, accurate data right from the uh, right from the start.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, I m. I'm gonna have to wrap us up because I promised I wouldn't talk too much and I don't want us to get too long winded today. But um, I have one. I'll, I'll leave us all with one last question here we can contribute to and I think what I'd like to know is if I'm, if I'm listening to this and I'm not confident that my data is as accurate as it could be or I um, don't even know if it's in the right place. What would maybe a good practical first step or piece of advice you would give someone from your experience be on how they could start Start the conversation around what they could do to improve.

Speaker C: Well I, I'd say you, you can go, you can go right to the carrier from a shipper's perspective. And you know, Greg and I are, are completely aligned on the collaboration piece that you know, look, we, we want to help one another because ultimately that's going to, you know, help our own companies, help our own customers. Um, so, so I think that's the biggest thing there is. You know, just ensuring that you do have a, a well established relationship with, with your LTL carrier. Um, you know they might have the data that they can share as Greg was mentioning, um, but that's something you can work on, on uh, you know, towards bettering your knowledge and internal uh, data as well.

Speaker B: I agree Brian. Those conversations really should begin at the start of a relationship. You know, it, it uh, it's a, it's a relationship business as I uh, indicated earlier. But, but I think that the data can be the foundation of, of those quality relationships that, that are long lasting and frictionless so to speak. We, you know, we um, no carrier wants to re rate shipments, I promise you. No carrier certainly wants to damage shipments. Uh, it's a pain point for carriers maybe as much as it is for shippers. And so just begin those conversations early with your carrier. Request a, to visit a facility or some facilities to see the technology that they're using to meet the team and uh, share that. Good. We enjoy those conversations. We have them on a regular basis. We especially enjoy when our customers are willing to make the investments on the front end as uh, Brian has with uh, dimensioners and uh, you know, packaging and all the things we've talked about, talked about so far today. So you know, reach out to your carrier and uh, I think it'll sort of create a nice long Runway for a successful relationship.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And I think I would just add my own thoughts to that and say that um, this industry has been progressing rapidly and I don't think that's going to slow down or stop. So unfortunately this isn't a uh, get your ducks in a row one time and then relax for five years. So I think this is a way to look at it as there's always an opportunity to get better and to find that next thing, that next innovation, that next data point, you know, that next way of looking at and measuring our results to drive the next improvement. So don't get too comfortable. But uh, I think it's fun to have a good challenge.

Speaker C: So agree.

Speaker A: Well thank you both for being here. I enjoyed hearing from you guys. And thank you for letting me, um, be a part of this conversation.

Speaker C: Yeah, thank you, Samantha. And thank you, Greg. Really enjoyed it.

Speaker B: Uh, I, uh, did as well. Thank you both and, uh, happy holidays.

Speaker A: And thank you guys for listening. If you want to learn more about the best practices and the mistakes to avoid in your shipping operations, be sure to visit odfl.com odoutlook while you're visiting the OD Outlook section of the Old Dominion Freightline website. If you want to stay up to date on key trends impacting global supply chains, be sure to check out OD's most recent white paper, the Power of Data Accuracy in LTL Shipping. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our full Cargo Shorts podcast series. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcast podcasts, Amazon Music, SoundCloud, and YouTube Music. You can also leave us a comment on Spotify. Please rate and review, share with your colleagues or drop us an email at, uh, marketingdfl uh.com thanks for listening, guys.