The New Rules of B2B Sales Leadership

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the C Suite sales and Marketing Perspectives podcast. I'm Steve McDonald, your host and today we have the privilege to be with Mark Crompton. Now Mark, you have been in sales your entire career. You are a specialist in building, expanding, growing revenue organizations, in particular teams. And we're going to talk a lot today about the new rules of B2B sales leadership and how do you start the team, how do you grow the right team. But there's a lot of instances where companies aren't investing in the sales team the way that they should. And we're going to talk a lot about that today. And how do we kind of balance that power and make sure that we're putting our resources where we're going to get a lot of return on investment on it. It um, I learned just a few minutes ago that you uh, started your career out 11 years in the infantry in the military. Exactly.

Speaker A: Which is a good start for sales, right?

Speaker B: Oh, I, oh, I want to hear all about it. And uh, also that uh, you play competitively in 55 plus, you know, league for uh, tennis and golf and have done actually amazing with your teams. So I love to hear a well rounded story if you wouldn't mind kind of adding to that background a little bit before we dig in.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, uh, my first job, which was kind of a mandatory job right out of college was uh, joining the U.S. army. So I uh, was fortunate to get a federal uh, scholarship through college, paid for, everything was great. And then I remembered at the end when I graduated I had to go in for four years. So uh, it was, it was a great experience. I really loved it. I traveled all over the world. I specialized in infantry training. So I was down in Fort Benning and stuff. So it was an interesting start to management. As a 21, 22 year old managing, you know, 40, 50, 60 people, you learn real fast how to get along with people. Um, and then I kind of, once I got out of the military I made my commitment. I stayed on for a little bit, did 11 years in uh, I went into sales, uh, of communication systems. I started Motorola, ge, hp and I really got involved in sales, in particular international sales. So at the height of my career I was running about uh, oh about 74 people globally, about 25 offices and doing about $180 million at the Wireless Group of HP. So it was a great experience and it built me up for um, being able to do what I'm doing today, which is really share that experience and help small to medium sized businesses grow their Sales teams. So it's, you know, not just the big guys that get, you know, that those kind of talent and skills and I can actually apply it to small to medium sized businesses and a lot of times make a much bigger M impact than I did at larger companies.

Speaker B: Well, here's what I'd like to do. I'd like to start out with a point of view that you have, which seems counterintuitive.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: So to a lot of organizations it seems like they're doing everything to invest in sales. Right. You know, it's like that's where the bread and butter is made. But you talk about how revenue deserves more equal priority and a more investment that it typically gets and that there's a lot that goes to the operation side. So I'd love to just kind of hear your philosophy to start us out here.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I, you know, I, uh, I have seen, you know, a lot of small to medium sized businesses which are usually led by a founder who's very good in that specific industry or segment and they're very good at building the best, uh, product or the best labels or the, you know, the best deliverable. But as they've grown their business, they built the factory, they've gotten in, you know, laser cutters, machinery, they're proud of these million dollar machines. Yet the sales team is struggling to get a CRM to go to a trade show. Everything's got to be justified. Um, and, and too often they don't start, start thinking about investing in the sales team until it's almost too late. And so my point is invest in the sales team. Just like any other department, the sales team needs training, needs documentation, needs, it needs coaching, it needs processes. So all those kinds of investments are ongoing. And even today, AI tools that deserve equal representation and priority to the other departments like operations, accounting, finance, etc.

Speaker B: You know, it's amazing because uh, a lot of your clients are, they're not small businesses, they're large manufacturing organizations. They have very decent revenue and you come in and you find out they don't even have a CRM. Right. Like uh, that's surprising to me. Like is it, is it, you know, spite their, their lack of investment in sales, they've grown organically and now need to, you know, take on a different model to grow to the next level. Like why have they been able to not invest in sales to this point? And why is investing in sales now the right decision for them?

Speaker A: Well, I think there's been a transition. I mean years ago, you know, it was very Easy to build, uh, relationships with customers. Get a large client and just rely on your existing customer database, your customer base. And they got kind of fat, dumb and happy just on that database. But over the years, customers started to get smarter and smarter. You know, today's customers know a lot more about you than you think. And as the customers have gotten smarter, there's more competition out there. So you can't just, you know, rely on that existing customer database. You've got to be bringing in incremental business to not only for growth, but also to cover any accounts you may, you may not be able to retain. So I think this trend of relying on your old customer base. Don't need to invest much in customers. They always come back. They buy year over year. Um, that's change. And now you really gotta go out there and you gotta fight to keep your current customers and you gotta fight to get the new customers. And you, you've gotta be able to communicate more on a personal level with them. You have to communicate fast. I mean, uh, I mean, I'm sure all of us sometimes. Have you ever called around to try to get a quote for services around your home or a new appliance at your house? Are you gonna wait two or three days? Oh, my refrigerator's down. Oh, I'll wait to get quotes in three days or I'll wait for this guy to call me back. I always use them. Not going to happen. I mean, people get impatient if they can't get a hold of somebody instantly, let alone, you know, within minutes.

Speaker B: You know, you bring up something really important. There, there's, there's a set of expectations from the B2C world and how things work and how timely it has to be and on our terms. And that's, that's changing. You would think, though, changing out a refrigerator or getting somebody to repair a refrigerator and investing in something in a B2B business that's churning out 10, 20, 30 million dollars would be different. But the mentality is, when you're ready to make that decision, you really want to push the go button, right? You want to be able to talk to people. And so how is that mindset, you know, when you don't have a sales organization, how can you respond to that kind of mentality, right? That kind of demand?

Speaker A: Well, it's very difficult. That's why you need to invest it in a solid sales team. Because people are not going to wait for, you know, a customer service to call them back, send them information. It's really got to be real time or Very close to it. So that's why you really got to invest into a sales team. Um, you know, you know, if you have one bad experience with a company, the odds are you're not coming back. And McKinsey has data like, you know, if people have a bad experience with a B2B, uh, engagement, 81% chance are greater, they're not coming back. Um, and you know, the thing about B2B in particular is a lot of times, if not the majority of the time, your relationship is with your primary contact at that company. Know you don't want to talk to someone else. You never talked before. You need that item today or tomorrow, you're relying on it. I don't care if it's, you know, equipment for your office, uh, it's communication gear, you know, something is down, you really want that response and you want to deal with somebody you trust. Uh, and that's in B2B is really building that relationship, long term relationship and taking care of the customer. And I was just talking to today, I was explaining to one of the sales guys at one of my clients that sometimes when you have a bad experience with a company, but they turn around and respond and take care of you, that is a customer for a lifetime. And that's an experience that you can actually have a stronger relationship after a problem. And I was telling the sales guy, you know, just take care of this customer, they'll appreciate it down the road. And I've seen it so many times where, you know, that turns into a lifelong relationship, even not, uh, even a personal relationship. I mean, um, I'm sure all of us have friends that we've met through work and next thing you're playing golf together, your families are having pizza together, you're going to graduation parties. So B2B is really about building that, that bond and that relationship, you know,

Speaker B: and so much that you just talked about. There was customer experience, CX oriented, and you know, McKinsey did a, uh, in 2023, they looked at 400 highly profitable companies, B2C and B2B and came out and determined that CX was the number one differentiator in the marketplace. And most people don't have the mentality that sales is an important part of that CX component. Right, but do you have a different opinion on that?

Speaker A: No, I would say I completely agree. I mean, your salesforce is your frontline defense. I mean, it's the first engagement and you know, you need good staff that knows the business, that can help people get the resources they need and like you said, if they have one bad experience and it's not handled properly, you know, the odds are they're not coming back. And nowadays, you know, the uh, the acquisition costs for a new client, they're just, they're, you know, they're so high. You have such invested in them, you, you can't afford to lose what you already have. I mean, yes, you're going to invest in looking for incremental business, but don't lose what you already have.

Speaker B: Uh, oh no. In fact, 73% of new annual revenue from a B2B company comes from existing customers. Yeah, we, we put so much effort on new logo development versus you know, trying to mine our own client organizations. Right. And grow the business. It, it just doesn't get the same amount of, of is dedicated to it. And that kind of takes me back to uh, so your focus is on investing in sales. So where is the, where's the right place to start? How do we think about that?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, if you, if you ask me, what does it take to build a good sales team? Right. Um, you know, I would say once like, you know, making a good, you know, a recipe. What does it take? Good ingredients. And those ingredients are, you got to have a quality sales leader. I mean you start out with the guy at the top. Somebody hopefully is experienced, understands sales, knows the processes and what he's going to do is put together a team of people like him. Good people always attract other good people. I, I've learned that over the years. Um, in addition, the fundamental, uh, guiding principle of the sales team should be a documented process. It's uh, sales acceleration. Like putting everything together in a sales playbook. Kind of like a sports team. You got all your different plays, you got one place to start and understand all your responsibilities, resources you have, how you implement, then follow up. So I would say a uh, strong plan in the, in the beginning that you can grow with adapt along with a quality sales leader is the starting point. And then we get into the, you know, the lower priority items such as, you know, accountability. I mean I've had to pick up some of the big ones like sales accountability. You know, sometimes in small to medium sized businesses you don't hold anybody accountable for specific accounts or sales. You know, I'm going to use a random number, 75% or the majority of small businesses when you get into them, there's some family element there or friend element and a lot of times they don't hold the salespeople accountable. And you've got to hold People with quotas, accountability, you know, if they're not making the number, put in, you know, plans to turn it around. But holding people accountable and not just going with the status quo.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I think holding people accountable, putting a sales playbook in there, getting strong people in there, documenting a process, um, all of that is, you know, the major ingredients for a successful sales team. And then there's coaching. You know, a good leader is going to coach. Um, I always, I believe strongly in weekly or bi weekly sales meetings to review your dashboard, where you're at, always keeping track. I'm a metric guy, I love data. And then in addition to like a group settings, going over your group goals and group results, you know, a good sales manager or sales leader is going to have one on ones with everybody on his team that reports to him and you know, keeping people accountable, listening to salespeople, I mean, salespeople. You know, uh, sometimes I think good sales leaders are almost like, you know, psychologists. You, whether good or bad, you're kind of, you know, helping them out. Yeah, you did a great job. Pat on the back or you're poking them in the other end, you know, like you got to get out there and do more. So, you know, good sales leader, besides everything I talked about is also usually a pretty good coach and a motivator. So I think all of putting that together and it's kind of where I start is really with the people, the process, documentation and then into the nitty gritty where sales strategy, sales execution, accountability all play into there.

Speaker B: How does, um, how does culture not only in the company, but culture in the sales team? How does that matter? And you know, I ran a podcast for years in the um, um for companies that were, um, talking to CHROs and CPOs, VP talent. And nobody could stop talking about the importance of company cultures. Right. And feeling like you're on a team that has your back, a team that is there to support you, a team that is there to listen to your feedback. You're not just a cog. Like, how important is building a, uh, you know, a responsive sales organization, building the right culture underneath all of that?

Speaker A: Well, I think culture is key. I mean uh, sales acceleration. We partner a lot with EOs. If anybody, you know, understands who EOS is and you know, company values, one of the most important things. And you've got to instill that throughout the organization and that extends into the sales team, you know, evaluating people, hiring people along what their values are, building that strong culture of accountability, integrity. It really transcends throughout the Sales organization, but it starts really at the company level. And that value and culture just kind of. You build it through. And, you know, if somebody isn't part of that culture, your job also is to remove those type of people.

Speaker B: Um, right.

Speaker A: You know.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I. I had a customer in Colorado, believe it or not, in Denver. I won't use the name, but their name is a number related to the. A mile high. Let's just say that.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, they, you know, spent a lot of time. They thought they had nailed this guy down. They've done all the, uh, the analytical surveys, and then, uh, they fired him the second day.

Speaker B: Oh, geez.

Speaker A: Yeah. VP of sales. He just didn't fit in their culture. Uh, you know, he was taking long smoke breaks. He was using language he didn't use in the interviewing process. He was, you know, uh, rude to, you know, female employees. And when you see that I respect the company, they said, you know what? After two days, he. He's not a fit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I think that's something you got to manage. If you know much with the EOS process, you actually map the culture, uh, on a regular basis into reviews, and you actually rank people according to how they display that culture and those particular values. So I think that's a key part of it. And, um, you know, I think that's the job of the sales leaders to make sure that that culture is maintained and kind of fostered.

Speaker B: You know, it seems like it's all part of the overall strategy. You talked about building a repeatable growth engine, and you talked even before we started the podcast about that, your focus on building the right sales teams, which means the right culture. How do you build for repeatable, scalable growth?

Speaker A: Well, I think that comes back to when I was talking earlier about documenting your processes, your values. Um, I would go back to the sales playbook is really how you can repeat that over and over again and use it for expansion and growth, um, even things like new employees. Uh, one of the things we stress is like a 30, 60, 90 onboarding plan. How can you bring those people, you invested so much time, money and resources and finding the right person. Well, let's bring them in and let's make sure, you know, they're going to last and you're going to make them successful. So, you know, the onboarding plan, you know, it sounds like something so simple, but, uh, you know, I've seen companies where the guy comes in and the laptop hasn't already been ordered. You know, nobody's allocated time to sit down with the new Guy, he's not set up for ride alongs. He sat at a desk. Um, you really got to have a plan organized to basically take them through that and make sure they are successful. And then even after 90 days, I mean, you do it 30, 60, 90, there should be periodical reviews. And I think in sales it might be a little bit easier because I think sales teams were used to having weekly, bi weekly sales meetings where we're used to one on ones. We're used to an annual sales meeting. So we get a lot of opportunities to actually talk through that. Um, but I think that's kind of key to really having a successful team and not losing that investment you make into things like new employees.

Speaker B: It's interesting because the world's changing underneath us every day. AI is a big part of that. The delayed buyer journey where they're waiting longer and longer, longer to want to talk to a salesperson. Right. They're forming short lists before we even saw intent signals. You know, we're having to build relationships earlier and earlier and devote more time to that. Like what are the things that you're doing and recommending for your clients today based on kind of the significant changes. Right. That have been going on in the marketplace?

Speaker A: Well, I would say that you mentioned AI a little bit and of course AI is a hot topic right now, but I think it ties into having the right tools as part of a sales process. And you know, whether it's a CRM on the front end where you're tracking your customer data, and again, when you start building that customer database, that's really an asset of high value to your, to your company. And a lot of people don't think about, I mean, uh, you know, when you go to sell the company, that's a huge asset as part of that. But I think the tools is really an area to focus in on and getting the right tools from the beginning to the end. And I think AI has played into that on the sales team where you can on the front end be able to communicate personally more regularly with your clients. You can find them much easier. I mean, I think cold calling for the most part is dead. I think if anything, people are warm calling once they found out information online or with an AI tool. But in the front end, you know, the AI tool is helping you find them, communicate with them better, organize, make yourself more efficient in your office. Um, I'll give you an example for myself. I mean, probably four or five years ago, I wasn't using AI note takers.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: And you know what you have, I'm sure you do the same thing, Steve. Let's say four or five calls a day, right? I don't know about you, but I was, you know, I mean, still a yellow pad of paper guy. You know, I translate them, you know, 15, 30 minutes maybe to do the notes and edit them, um, send them to the appropriate people, get the action items together. You know, four or five meetings, you know, there is a couple hours a day you can shave off. And that's just one example. You know, the CRM, you know, if you want to send a message out to your client database, a few clicks now and you can send out a message to everybody. So I think, you know, this, this, uh, ability to connect tools and use tools is really a powerful change on the sales teams. And, and, and I, and, and what's funny is you think everybody, everybody's using that, but it's not the case. I mean, I had a client, I'm not going to name, uh, a geography, but, you know, when I went to the sales team, none of them had LinkedIn accounts. You know, none of them had laptop. They were all using their computers at the office. $35 million a year, very successful company. I mean, great company, great people, but they never really were forced to upgrade their technology or their tools or their process until sales got flat again. And then let's bring in and let's talk to somebody like market sales acceleration and see what he can do.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But I will say this, and I said this at the beginning, you know, I hate going into an account when they tell me the sales are flat. Well, when I hear flat, I already know it's declining because I'm sure in the last couple of years they had price increases. Yeah, of course, you've got inflation that used to be in the 3%, now's in the 5 to 6. Right. So that flat is not flat, that's declining, you know, so, um, you know, I'd rather be brought in on the earlier when, you know, it's still in a growth mode and try to accelerate the growth. Too often I'm brought in when it's flat or declining. And then I've got to implement these systems, process and tools to try to really turn it around.

Speaker B: So tell me a little bit about the turnaround strategy is interesting, right? Because it, it, it talks about doing things differently and, um, you know, there's a lot of, you know, leadership, different disciplines and different things, but we have to follow changing buyer behavior. Right. And so I'm going to, I'm going To focus on one thing and that's like you mentioned, like cold calls don't work anymore. Right. Ah. And they part of it is because the buying journey has been delayed and it's a self service buying journey now. There's been a lot written up by the time that you talk to a salesperson. It's about confirmation, it's about validation of the decisions that were already made by the buyer. How do you think about that in terms of like the role of sales and you know, what the role that sales plays today versus five years ago, ten years ago?

Speaker A: Well, I think the role of sales today is to continually own the communication link with the clients. Um, it's not just reach out every quarter, it's an ongoing communication path. So I think there's a lot of different ways to keep that ongoing communication with customers where it's not just periodical. So you've got to keep ongoing communication. So I think what's great is, you know, social media used in the right way in this area is very helpful. Digital marketing's another one. But let me talk about, you know, social media first. I think we're all, we all believe that LinkedIn is kind of the basis for B2B. That's really the place to be. And I was just talking with another sales guy today that he was going to a trade show and I said, well, it's a month out. You need to start posting on the landing page of that association, you know, where you're going to be, what you're offering at the trade show, start following them. Um, and why? Because that trade show group that we were talking about this morning has a million followers. And I said, you know, if you get one like one share from that particular organization, you just were in front of 2 million eyeballs. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: So when you talk about that, I think the sales, you know, as part of the communication process has to be communicating regularly. In social Media in particular, LinkedIn is a must. Uh, you can do Facebook, you know, Instagram and those are great. But that ongoing communication is great. Uh, when you go to the communication tools, there's a lot of different ways to do that. Uh, lately I've been recommending to try to keep regular communications with your client on an email basis. There's a lot of great AI tools. But I like virtual assistants. If you look at the price of virtual assistants now and you talk about customizing and regular communications to your clients, there's nothing like it. It's just incredible. Um, they can, you know, in essence they can be you on your email, they can be you on your LinkedIn. Um, there's nothing like it I've seen in a while for time savings and personalization with your clients, like I've seen with virtual assistants. Um, you know, if people aren't using them already, I would say definitely look into them. The cost is minimal and the quality is really getting to be there. So back to your original point about keeping communication. I think you use all these tools and sales takes the lead on that communication and that's the external communication to the client. The other thing for me, for a sales team and a good sales team is, is there also that the internal communicator for the customer, you know, they're communicating the need, the pain point from that customer to their engineering department, to their operation department, to their accounting department. So you're also the, you know, you take the lead on those internal company communications as much as you take it on the external. And you know, you really do have to, you know, and we've all been in companies and there's, there's politics in every company to some degree and sometimes you really got to fight for, you know, your client internally to, you know, to go back to a good customer experience and deliver what you promised.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I love the focus on internal communication. Uh, the number one challenge from C suite executives on creating long term sustainable growth is internal alignment, which starts with internal communication. Right. Like we are our biggest challenges to creating long term sustainable growth. Almost everything that you talked about here today is 100% under the control of the company. There's nothing repetitive about this. Right. This is all about how we do business and how we choose to do business. And it's a really interesting way to look at it because I, I've asked over one, uh, hundred twenty different C suite executives. What is the biggest challenge, what are the two greatest challenges to creating long term sustainable growth? Every single one had a first internal fix to it. Most of them were 100% internal. Lack of internal alignment, lack of a deep understanding of the voice of the customer, lack of a trust building program to, you know, build the relationships, you know, before it's too late, before the day, you know, the shortlist is closed. So I would just, I'd love to ask because we could go on for hours. Right, Right. We're both, you know, both steeped in this. What is the. If there's one thing, the people that are going to be consuming this podcast, if there's one thing that you want them to take away the most m important thing that you want them to know. What would that be?

Speaker A: Uh, in talking with like a senior level manager at a small to medium

Speaker B: sized company, a C suite executive, C suite executive at one of those companies,

Speaker A: I would say invest in your sales team. And it goes back to that point that it's often too overlooked. Invest in good people, tools, processes. Don't wait till it's too late because, uh, when you wait till it's too late, yes, we can turn it around, but we can turn it around in three, four, five months. It can't happen overnight. So you've got to start today to make those changes and improvements with your sales team and invest now.

Speaker B: I love it. I love it. You know, uh, the, the whole idea of this podcast is to bring different C suite perspectives together and how do we create long term sustainable growth as a group, as a peer group. And if we can do that and share that, that's the rising tide that lifts all boats. And, and you were an amazing part of that rising tide today. Mark, I just want to say thank you.

Speaker A: Well, I appreciate you having me on here. It's, you know, again, as, uh, we were talking about, sometimes sales is overlooked too much. I appreciate you putting the focus on the sales team and you know, what are the components of building a good sales team? And you know, like we said, most important, don't wait. I mean, do it now. Don't wait till your sales are flat. Right?