Foundations: Why a Marketing Ecosystem Matters in the Building Industry

Speaker A: Welcome back to the Proven Marketing Ecosystem for Builders podcast. And today's episode is a big one. Foundations. Why a, um, marketing ecosystem actually matters in the building industry. I've got Peter Butler and Scott Bywater here with me for this one, which is perfect because they have been building and refining these systems for years. If you've ever felt like you're throwing money at random marketing tactics, maybe a Google Ad here, a uh, posted, uh, boost over there, a lead magnet that you've downloaded two years ago and trying to make it work, and nothing really talks to each other, then this episode is gonna hit home. The truth is that most builders aren't struggling because they're not marketing. They're struggling because their marketing is scattered. And scattered marketing costs you leads, money, momentum and patience. So today Peter, Scott and I are breaking down why an integrated marketing ecosystem beats piecemeal tactics every single time. We're talking about websites that convert ads that speak to your CRM, automations that actually nurture leads and reporting that gives you clarity instead of confusion. So if you want predictable leads, better quality clients, and a smoother sales process, it all starts with the right foundation. So let's dive in. Pete, let's talk.

Speaker B: I think your intro summed it up rather well. I think that's the end of the podcast.

Speaker A: Um, so let's jump right into it for real and let's talk about the mistakes we've seen people make over and over again. One of the things I said there is, you know, piecemeal marketing, Google Ad here, boosted Facebook post over there, that kind of thing. You know, from uh, from all of our experience, Pete, your experience, how many times have you seen this happen and what are the results of, of that kind of thing?

Speaker B: Well, I mean, in your summary, your introduction there, I think you summed it up really well. Seriously, because you know, you said nothing talks to each other. And therein lies the major problem. You can go from one extreme to the other. You know, we've built so many sites where the projects are being showcased and as they should be. And they're stunning. They're like absolutely stellar work. But there's no automations or there's no CRM, uh, forms, they're just web forms. So there's no follow ups, there's no tracking systems in place. So nothing talks to each other, nothing's connected. One of my earlier categories in business, my USP unique selling proposition, was helping business owners connect the dots. And it's exactly the same thing, having a graphically gorgeous website on its own. Yes, you Absolutely need that. But if you're not thinking marketing, qualifying leads, nurturing those, um, then leads, it's going to fall over. That makes sense.

Speaker A: Absolutely, 100%. I think for me it's, I've seen it a hundred times where you know, clients are just confused, you know, and the world changes every single day and your, your, your problems, uh, or your clients problems change every single day. You meet a client who says this is the thing I'm concerned about. And all of a sudden you kind of think, well, is this my avatar or is this my buyer Persona? So I guess Scott, that's kind of where I want to bring you in in terms of messaging and copy mistakes that break campaigns. Because you know, we all know that if you don't stick with something long enough to figure it out, we can get almost too clever with trying to stay on top of everything and keep every finger in every pie and make sure we are all on top of everything. Talk to messaging and copy and that kind of thing and how that can be, you know, how people make mistakes there.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's uh, a few mistakes people essentially make, you know, from a uh, copy perspective. And one is underestimating the amount of research that's required for, for a client to make a buying decision. So we're not selling Mars bars here or Yo Yos or something like that. We're actually selling custom homes which are a million dollars plus. And you know, as a result of that, we really need to make sure that we are marketing uh, appropriately. So I will often see builders and they'll have Facebook ads and they'll have short copy Facebook ad going to short copy landing page. And sure they might get a lead, but the problem with that lead is what do they know about you? They know hardly anything about you. They probably spent like you know, 60 seconds total looking at your content. So the lead comes through and they're not really serious and nor should they be. They should be a tire kicker at that stage or be classified as a tyre kicker cause they don't know anything about you. So what you really want to do from an ecosystem perspective is, is rather than doing that, you want to be either pulling uh, them into your email list where you can communicate with them and build a relationship which you might do over uh, you know, over one month, three months, six months, 12 months. Yeah, sometimes two or three lead years down the track. You can get incredible leads like I know Jackson Digney. Cause I do this myself. Became a client after several years on my email list. And by the Time he called, he was, he was very much pre sold because he'd absorbed so much content. So I think that that is the same approach with builders. We need to be making it a content rich approach so that clients come to us pre sold. Because the issue for builders, and we see this in the sourcing report year in and year out, it's not the amount of leads, it's getting the right quality of leads that matters. And where we want the leads is we want the leads where we're shooting from the free throw line, where we're not shooting from the other side of the court. Yeah, okay.

Speaker A: And that's awesome. I think Pete, going into the ecosystem now, I think this is the foundation, right? We, we want people to understand the foundation before we delve into each part of the, each piece of the puzzle. Right. So just talk us through a quick overview of what the foundation, what the pieces are so we can give people an understanding of what we're going to go into in podcasts to come.

Speaker B: Okay, so you've got your core website and we've seen so many stunning websites, beautiful project showcased and that's great. But the calls to action above the fold of the website, so where people don't have to scroll, there's no calls to action up there. Sometimes we find builders don't want to have a lead magnet displayed up there or they don't want to have a web chat widget. Um, and really all they've got up there is get a quote. I mean worst case scenario, having a phone number above the fold and that's their only call to action. Well, that's just crazy. But having a high performing website is one part of the puzzle, then you need the CRM with the automations and the nurturing. So if somebody inquires, clearly they're interested in what it is you do say have to offer. Um, and maybe they're a tyre kicker, maybe they're not, maybe their tire kicker and their budget's not right. But through your nurture sequence, through your automations, through the CRM, you, you can then help them to realize that they need to actually increase their budget, you know, because that's a reality. They don't know your space. You're there as the educator and that's done through your content marketing. But the CRM is the part that houses that, that's the container for all of that. So we've now got our website, we're producing content on a regular basis which is housed within the website, but the content is absolutely gold. And Scott can attest to this, that the conversations that builders have is the foundation of your content. Because there is a real connection between what you're saying and the content you're producing. And we've seen this time and time again with builders where you know, their clients are saying to them, oh my God, your content. What you're saying is, I've uh, read that on your website and there's this real psychological um, power where it resonates because the spoken word and the written word are in direct alignment. So it's incredibly powerful. So we've got some three pieces there to summarize. We've got the website, we've got the CRM, the house, everything. But we've got the content marketing and then you've got the ads. Because with ads, and again you're both well aware that ads are uh, intent based. Somebody searching online and your ad appears above everybody else. But behind that is with the content marketing, it's increasing your organic rankings. So with ads there's a real intent. People are searching, they see your ad and they go into your sales pipeline. But then the whole time this is going on, your organic rankings through content marketing is increasing. And so at some stage you might be able to reduce your ad spend but the organic will keep the machine driving, tie it all together a little bit higher level. So the thing is, most builders, you know, they are relying on referrals and that's great. But uh, referrals can't grow. What referrals didn't start. They come when they come and they dry up when they dry up. It's not a strategy, it's not sound absolutely solid and should be a part of it. And if somebody is referred to you when they go to your website, hopefully it's a high perform website but with lots of calls to action and engagement points feeding into the CRM which is going to nurture them, follow them up, qualify them, get to them to ascend. And I've um, got a saying that it's as important to disqualify a client as it is to qualify them. But sometimes we can actually ascend them, we can change their thinking, we can help educate them that hey, for that energy efficient home, that budget is not realistic or for that area, for that style or whatever that is.

Speaker A: Okay, uh, this is, this is gold.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, this is gold. And this is where I'm gonna talking about ecosystem. I'm gonna bring all three of what we just talked about in terms of Scott as well, where we've got an actual Client. And this is what this podcast is about, actually is about the fact that we've seen what works over and over and over again. Um, and we've also seen what doesn't work. And one of the things I want to talk about is we have a very specific client who had a number of phone calls from leads very quickly after. First of all having a high performing website, then having a really clear idea of what their avatar or perfect client would be, having fantastic in your voice written content on the website as well as blogs that when they got phone calls and a couple of leads in the first week of this site going live and then subsequently met with what would become their client, the response was, you know, I, uh, almost feel like I've been, been talking to you already. I know you now. I have a saying with all of my clients that I deal with that. We don't sell houses or renovations. We sell trust. Because oftentimes we've all been in that situation where somebody's been burnt or know somebody who's been burnt. And ultimately all of what we're talking about is how do we build trust. So Scott, I want you to talk to that because I know you were heavily involved in the, in the copy across the platforms. Um, and I want to talk about how, for you to talk about how the consistency across all platforms is so necessary, um, for the obvious in terms of talking own voice, but also just about sort of, if you'd like copy branding, making sure that everything talks to everything, not only in your own voice, but the messaging that you are putting across, talk to the experiences you have with that. And unfortunately we need to be honest here, uh, let's talk about the train wrecks we've seen because that exists, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah, so, so uh, so the big thing with getting that, getting that copyright, it's very much, much, very copy content. You know, it's very much like building a house. And I'll uh, often say this, you could, you know, if you, if you sign up a contract, you don't go out and just start laying the slab the next day. Right? You actually go through a design process and you get really clear on the design and before you start, you know, buying the lumber and putting the slab up and getting all the materials, you have the house fully designed. It's the same with copy and content. And that's why what we do is we go through, ah, a copy strategy guide process where we get super clear on the avatar or the avatars. In many cases, like in many cases there's more than one avatar. So, uh, we recently did one where they had four avatars who were quite different to each other. So you need to be clear on that. The other thing we get clear on is the core story because we're building and construction. What we're talking about here is we're talking about probably the biggest commercial decision you're ever gonna make or most people are ever gonna make in their life, right? They're gonna be there with you for probably a year or over. They're spending a lot of money. So you don't have many other transactions which have that much depth of relationships. They wanna know who you are, they wanna know about your story. And you wanna intertwine and interconnect your core story with your unique selling proposition. Um, so, and that's, and that's. Every builder has, I've worked with dozens and dozens of builders and every builder has a different nuance which makes them like really unique. Not all builders are the same. So like there's, there's a, um, client we've been working with recently came over from the uk, moved to Australia. Super uncomfortable in the middle of winter. This is in, yeah, in the middle of, you know, in the middle of Perth. Right. And then they're like, we don't like the way homes are built here. We're going to build them differently and we're going to build Perth's most livable homes for families. They're going to be healthy, they're going to be comfortable. All of a sudden, a completely different unique selling proposition and it ties in really nicely with their core story. So we've interlinked those two together. So then once you've got that, you've got the core story, you've got the unique selling proposition that can then flow through your website, it can flow through all of your content and really brings that, yeah, that, that heart and that connection to everything that you do. And what it does as well is it repels the wrong type of clients and it attracts the right type of clients, which is what we really want to be doing. Because we want those high quality leads and uh, to get those high quality leads, you've got to, you've got to talk about what you stand for and what you don't stand for. You know, you're not going to get, if you're going to position yourself in that way, maybe you won't get all those project home leads, maybe you won't get all the, you know, the decks and the pergolas, uh, and the bathrooms that you used to Get. But if you've made a decision that that's not, you want what you want and you want to go after the high quality, then this is the, uh, you know, this is the way to do it by going deep. So we'll invest. Let's say we do web copy. We'll invest five hours with a client before we write a word of copy. Because if you don't, you haven't got the design right. And we want to make sure the design's right before we even move forward with the web copy. Because otherwise everything, it's like a design, right. If it's not right, it's going to be a, uh, it's going to end up, the home's going to end up in. As a dog's breakfast. And normally that's what happens to web copy. Probably 98 out of a hundred websites that are built don't get the design right. And I look at it often and it breaks my heart. I see people and they'll spend, I'll spend a fortune on getting a new website done. Think of the not, uh, think for, for the design and structure. And I look at it as they're, they're polishing rather than. Yeah, they're polishing the car. When the car has engine problems, it might look better, but it's not going to get you where you want to go any faster.

Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a good point, Scott, because, you know, because that's all about the customer journey, isn't it? You know, you've got your avatar and like you said, you've got variances of avatars. But then if you don't have that customer journey. Right. And I've seen it where copy was done and the way it was laid out on the website, it was quite a jilted journey. It took them from the top over to the left and to the right, but it actually should have flowed vertically. Then what it does, it, uh, creates friction points and you lose people and my phone keeps ringing and so you can't afford for that to happen. Everything has to flow to give that absolute user experience.

Speaker C: And I think that's a good point you're making about the web copy and the design need to flow in together as well. Because like some of the web copy we do, I mean, you see them, Peter, they're like, you know, they're like 40, 50, 60, 70 pages. Some of the documents for the web copy that we, that we create. And if you don't have a good designer who can then lay that out. So it is Very. Because when you, when you look at them, when it's laid out properly, uh, which Peter and his team are very, very good at. Yeah, you would never pick up that. It is so, uh, wordy. It doesn't feel intimidating at all. So you need to have the balance of the, you know, the balance of the, of the two, the messaging and the design balancing together. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And for those listeners now, there's a thing called long form copy, which is invariably what Scott works with the majority of the time. And so, you know, because it's an emotional journey, it's. You can't treat a customer, home buyer like an impulse buyer. You know, it's a long sales cycle, so the copy's got to really resonate. Um, you know, there's that trust gap, that authority trust gap, um, because if they're looking at a particular builder, then they're looking at another builder down the road. They're not just looking at one, they're Googling. You know, first impressions matter. So, yes, you've got to have a graphically gorgeous website, but the copy's got to resonate. You've got to take them on that user experience and down to simple things like, uh. And I'm sure that, you know, everybody listening to this would have had the experience of filling in a form and you press submit or go or whatever, and then nothing happens.

Speaker A: Well.

Speaker B: Well, what sort of a user experience is that? Not a very good one. Every step of the journey, you have to impress at the highest level because the person down the road, if they're doing it better, he who markets best wins. That simple.

Speaker A: So let's have some fun. Let's not mention any names, but I want to go through some of the biggest mistakes builders have made that we've seen, because I think it's relatable. That's the truth. I really do. I think it's relatable. I think we all make mistakes, we all think we know what we're doing and, you know, we also get different influences. So, Pete, let's start with you. The biggest mistake, one of the biggest mistakes you've seen builders make, that you've seen the impact of, because here's the thing I'm going to set this clear, is why random marketing costs you. Now, our natural inclination is to think money, right? But it also costs you energy, emotional distress, you know, all of those kind of things. So give us. Let's talk about the worst things we've ever seen. We just don't mention any names.

Speaker B: You've caught me on the Fly.

Speaker C: I'll, I'll start. So, so one is, um, I talked to a builder once. They'd received hundreds of leads from their, from their, from a lead magnet campaign. Right. Advertising their lead magnet directly, direct. But then uh, you know, I checked in, I don't know, it was sometime later and they hadn't come to fruition. And the thing to remember, the reason for this, when I took a look at the follow up sequence, it was very chatgpt. It was almost like it was taken from. It was modeled off a information marketing, you know, educational product if you like, like with this white files and all of that sort of thing that doesn't work for builders, you know, like, like putting high pressure, uh, hey, you know, this is your last chance to, you know, to apply for a phone call isn't really appropriate when you're doing, you know, when you're doing these size, type of, type of builds. So when you do with your, with your follow up it needs to be very, very carefully thought through and it needs to be very valuable and educational and it needs to answer the question that's going on in the customer's mind. So this is, this is really critical and you see it so often, the follow up is just, you know, is just terrible. So if you're gonna have a lead magnet, make sure you have a follow up campaign in place which really resonates with your target audience and make sure your lead magnet resonates with your target audience as well. Because being generic is like, is like the enemy of what you want. Some of this stuff might've worked 10, 15 years ago, but it's far less likely to work today.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree. Um, while you were talking, ah, the biggest mistake I've seen is a builder who actually had quite a high end website. It was Oliver, it needed rebuilding. We vied for the job, we didn't get it. And their designer was a designer. And that's where it's really hard in our industry for people to understand. There's a lot of tech, they sort of get that when I say it. But a uh, website's based on a particular platform, a software that's being used. The graphic designer rebuilt the website, didn't consider the SEO, they didn't consider the page name structure because each page has a particular name which that name then gets known by Google. Short story version is the website got relaunched, they restructured the whole site. It looked absolutely stunning. It really was quite impressive to look at. Uh, they, when I did an SEO check on it, they'd gone from having 154 keywords ranked down to 51 keywords ranked. So they lost nearly 100 keywords or over 100 keywords ranked with Google. Like, that just killed their organic traffic. I mean, that's catastrophic.

Speaker A: Was that important? Okay, but I still got 51. Who cares? Tell me why that's important, that I should have 150 versus 50 or 300. Like, why, why, why is that a big deal?

Speaker B: Well, let's just put it down in a straight math. If each keyword, uh, accounted for one visitor to your website, so you had 150, but let's multiply that for 10. So you had 1500 visitors to your website. You just killed 1000 of them just based on simple math. Right? So you've got your rankings with Google. So you are now going to be totally reliant on running Google Ads. Yeah, it's crazy. Organic SEO is absolutely gold because it's sustainable. It just keeps growing. And with the right strategies, you keep building on that, you keep the momentum going so that, you know, it's. You've just killed two thirds of your traffic, essentially. It's that simple. And that's catastrophic. To come back from that is actually going to take time and money. Right. And the stress that causes in the meantime, your competition, if their reasonable competitors using a reasonable agency will see that and they will bolster their SEO, uh, their content marketing strategies to take over. So trying to climb back where you were can be arduous. Take a lot of time. Did they save any money in, uh, rebuilding the website? Yeah, no.

Speaker A: Yeah. No. Got you. Yeah. I mean, I've seen some horrors as well. I remember I had a client who decided to cancel their Facebook ads campaign, uh, in order to boost posts. So the idea was, okay, we're going to take the money we've been spending on a Google, uh, Facebook ads campaign, and we're going to just boost posts because it's physically easier because I put the post up, I see boost, I click the button. And even though they were warned many times, and I think this is another thing that we need to focus on is, um, how much information is out there. We're doing it, we're talking about the stuff. But there's a lot of, you know, you can put into Google why tomato ketchup will, Will. Will heal cancer, and why it'll give you cancer like you can. And you'll find a million articles on both. But this person had decided this was a good idea. And what they didn't realize was that boosting posts just Makes the people that know you already see your posts. That's all it does. And if you got, uh, the richer exactly right. Whereas an ads campaign will get you in front of people who don't know who you are. And in a builder's case, the majority of the people who like and follow their pages are people who've already built with them. And if you've done an amazing job, they shouldn't be coming back to you real soon. This is not repeat customer type work unless they're going to renovate or build a granny flat or some, or duplex, something like that. You kind of want people to like you in the, and review you. We're going to talk about reviews, but they want you to review you, but then you kind of want new people to see what you do. Right. And there's, within the algorithms there's a lot of, there's a lot of key things that happen when people like your page and you do ads because it looks for a, like a likable audience, if that makes sense. So what starts to happen is those people's friends, who, uh, are those people's friends? Who are those people's friends? Start seeing your ads. Right. It's almost like you see on these social media, uh, platforms maybe, you know, this person recommended people. It's a similar scenario. And so that was probably the worst I've ever seen was just on. We're going to cancel this to boost post, which later on in the podcast we're going to get into uh, ads, we're going to get into Facebook posts, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, how all those things work. But that was just one of the things that we talked about. So look, we're going to wrap it up in a second, but I want to talk about what do you guys think the biggest sort of money waster you see is? Um, not necessarily the train wrecks, but just people. There's people that bleed money and it's maybe not a lot to trickle, but it builds up. So what do you think within what we're talking about, Scott, what do you think the biggest money waster you've seen is that's consistent? People keep doing it?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, and I think it's a, it's a money that they don't see that they're wasting. So uh, what I mean by that is, uh, I'll often say to a builder, I say if you've got a really high quality lead, they, they called you up, they or they went to your website, they left it in, you're like, that's a perfect lead. Would you send your apprentice out to meet with them? And almost every daughter says, of course I wouldn't. Because why? Because they're not good at sales, they're not trained at sales, and they'll probably lose the sale. And it's too big of an opportunity to lose. But here's the thing. Most builders don't. Their issue is not getting. Once they're. Once they're talking to the right person, you know, particularly if they're the type of builders listening to this podcast who are educated, their odds are pretty good of closing the sale. That's not where the gap is. The gap is getting that right person to reach out to them in the first place. But the problem is they go to your website or they see your emails. It doesn't resonate with them. They turn off, they walk away. The same as if you were talking to them face to face and you were. You were speaking gibberish or you just weren't making sense. They're gonna turn around and walk away. But you don't feel the pain because it's pixels on a, uh. Yeah, it's pixels on a screen, and it's like a number on a Google Analytics report. And you go, oh, yeah, that's interesting. But you don't feel like I've. You actually don't even know you've lost. And that's why I say build the stack first. You know, get your website solid, you know, get your. Get your blog solid, get all your emails solid, and then you've got the stack. So when you spend the ads, it's like, you light the match, it's got something to catch onto. I've got a. An interesting analogy when I used to. Or, uh, we still do have a house with a fireplace, but when we first got there, I would always shortcut on building the stack, right? I'd try and just put a few bits of kindling, light it up, hope for the best. Half an hour later, you're tearing your hair out after you've tried it like three or four times and it's died. Finally, I learned that if I built the stack properly first, I light the match, the whole thing goes up in one go. And that's, That's. I think more builders should be doing in order to. It's. It's the, uh, it's the long gain, but it's actually a shortcut.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And look, to bolster that, you know, the biggest waste of money is running hands without a CRM. Flat out like just crazy, right? And that, ah, ties into what you're saying. Build this stack. Um, I'll do the CRM later when I've got more money. But hang on a minute. If, you know, he who responds first wins. So the builder down the road, if they're looking at different builders and they've got a solid nurture sequence, you know, first impressions count, as we discussed, you know, and he who follows up, he's whose content resonates. And this is all done by the website in the first instance. That's the introduction to you. But it's the CRM that does the grunt work, you know, and people don't realize the opportunity cost. It's absolutely massive. It's so disheartening if they don't see the value in getting a CRM m set up. And we've had many builders who have set it up and their business has, it'll never be the same again. They're taking off. And we've had other cases where, uh, I don't use the CRM much. Well, it's not a matter of what you use, it's a matter of what the CRM is doing for you on your behalf through automation, saving you time. And people aren't doing that. We did an exercise once, there was one client where they had 242 automated messages sent out. They didn't account for that because they weren't logging into the CRM. They thought they weren't using the CRM. That wasn't the case. And these 242 messages saved them data entry time, save them all this and multiply that by 15 minutes. That's a lot of apps that, you know, is just automated and this nurture sequencer in place. So there's different ways to look at it. So, yeah, that would be my biggest impact item.

Speaker A: Cool. So let's wrap this thing up a little bit and talk about the one thing in your opinion right now, because things change, but one thing that you think builders should do right now to start getting into this ecosystem world. Pete, we'll start with you. What do you think the one thing is that builders could do right now?

Speaker B: Think about content. Think about how you can educate, think about the conversations you have on a daily, weekly basis that forms the foundation of your content. And I'm probably stealing Scott's glory here because he's the one who, uh, creates the content. We're the ones that distribute that content through emails, through blog posts, through social posts, all of that. I, uh, mean, it's the one Thing you should start considering because the thing is, we don't just run ads. The entire marketing ecosystem. And if you don't have all of that, then you're going to be selling yourself short.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Scott, what do you think? What's the one thing they should be doing?

Speaker C: I think number one, before anything else, is getting super clear on your unique selling proposition and your, your core story. Because out of that, and in particular, you know, your unique selling proposition, your avatar, everything stems from that. So we want to get that super solid because otherwise it's kind of like, I don't know if you lay and builders will resonate with this. If you lay the foundation wrong of your house, everything else, if it's on the wrong angle, everything else is going to have problems. Right? You're gonna have problems with your walls, your flooring, um, everything's gonna go, go wrong from then on. So take the time to really lay a solid foundation that you can, that

Speaker A: you can both of you deal with this all the time. So I have a question, because a lot of the clients that I deal with say these words. My unique sales proposition is that I have integrity, I'm honest, I'm not gonna go bankrupt. You can trust me. Loyalty, uh, all these things that. Listen, I hear that every single day, which inherently means it's not unique. So my question to you guys is, I'm sure you hear it too. How do you just, going to your point, how do you then direct people to go like, okay, that's great. And I'm sure you do have integrity. And I'm sure, like, how do you get people to think about it differently? How do you get people to kind of dig for what it really is?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, the way I do it is like we do it and we have a 90 minute session and I've, uh, got a list of questions and I just dig and pull the thread, pull the thread. And they're not, not, they're not the same questions every time. Right. But I'm pulling the thread, pulling the thread, pulling the thread to draw it out of them. And the, the thing I say to builders is, you don't need to do any research. I said, you've been researching for this call for the last 20 years or however long you've been in, in business. It's all in your head. And it's one of the most rewarding things I do because when you, when the builder sees that end result and they go, I finally, everything that's been jumbled in, in my head and it's very difficult to do this yourself because you get in your own echo chamber. Even when I try and work things out for myself, it's much harder than when I'm doing it for someone else, because I'm a clean slate and I can see it with precision. Whereas it's very, very hard to do that when you, uh. What are they saying? You can't see the outside. Yeah. You can't see the outside of the jar from inside the bottle type of thing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Freeze for the forest and. Yeah, and I'll attest to that as well, Scott, because, you know, when we engage a client, then we refer them onto you, and then the copy comes back and we've had a preliminary discovery strategy session, and we've got a sense of their specialty. And then when, after they've done their session with you and then they come back again, it's like, didn't know that about them, you know, because you've drilled deeper. Um, and I gotta say, it's quite refreshing because when I read the USP and the flow, it's like, wow, that is gold. It really is. And then the thing is that they're in the happy place then. Right? They're like, really in the happy place rather than this corporate crap. USP that this people are so used to doing. So. Yeah, that. That's quite powerful.

Speaker C: I know we had one client up in. In the Sunshine coast, and they, uh, I think were like, there was. You said, oh, they do two types of homes. Then I chatted with them, and they're like, 80% of our homes are, uh, acreage.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: And. And they're like. And we've lived on acreage all our lives. And I'm like, why aren't you guys the acreage specialists?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, uh. And that's. That's the way we position them. Now. If. If 5% of their. Their business had been acreage, I may have. May not have recommended that, but they were pulling that business without even trying. They were getting that. So there's certain things you see in a conversation that just. That just like, light up and go. That's. That's where we need to focus.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: I think, um, that's awesome because, you know, from my side, the biggest thing I focus on is strategy. But again, you need a launching point and you can. I can have the best strategy in the world, but I can only work with what you give me. So this is really helpful for people because if you can kind of get onto a session with Scott, get onto a session with Pete, talk about what it is that you've known for 20 years. The strategy part is super, super helpful and easier for me and for you to, you know, sort of like the buyer Persona. And your unique selling proposition is the catalyst is the start of that whole thing. That is the foundations episode. If you are tired of random marketing and you want predictable lead flow, the ecosystem is where everything starts. Big thanks to Pete and Scott for jumping on. We will catch you in the next one.