BrandBusters Ep. 28: Aidan Morris & Matt Wilson, Co-Founders of Orion Supplements

Speaker A: M welcome to Brand Busters with your hosts, James Schwinn and Sean Lee. Together we bust open the latest in cpg, retail media and life or whatever the we want. And for today's episode, we got something special cooked up for y'. All. Extra spicy. Take it away, Sean.

Speaker B: Welcome back, everybody, to the latest episode of Brand Busters. We have some fantastic guests for you today. We've got Aiden Morris and Matt Wilson, who are the co founders of Orion Supplements, um, the fastest growing health and wellness brand that features some of the best tasting protein powders available on the market. And when we get into some of their flavors, you'll understand why. But Aiden, Matt, really excited to have you guys on the, on the pod today. Thanks for coming in and chatting.

Speaker C: Happy to be here, man. Thanks for having us. Super cool.

Speaker D: Yes. So great to be here.

Speaker A: I've got to jump in because what, we met back at the Arnold Sports Classic in Columbus, Ohio, back in what, February, I think that was like you guys were hustling. I remember I was hitting the floor trying to prospect potential brand customers for the agency I'm at, and I see you guys just slinging protein. I'm like, what is this? Uh, I think you guys might have been the only Gen Z brand or group out there as well. Like, you have all the buddies out there. I'm like. And I've been a vanilla purist in terms of any whey protein or whey isolate I've consumed for like last 17 years. You guys have a bunch of different crazy flavors. I actually. Cinnamon roll swirl is what Aiden, you got me on there. And if you are watching, you can see me at this bag right now. And I've got to say, like, I was sold, like after first taste. Sold completely. It is, the flavor is distinct, it's clean, it's light, no chalk. Uh, so they stand by all their claims. So really excited for this one to come together and kind of dig into your guys's origin. So thank you.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah, I unfortunately cannot try the product. I've got some challenges with whey protein. So I have to do. I do like pea and, uh, pea, uh, and rice protein mix to try to get the complete protein. But, you know, I just have to put it with my chalky, terrible taste in protein. Wish I could have this.

Speaker D: You know what, don't, don't knock it till you try it for, uh, a couple of days. A lot of people switch from vegan over to ours. I'm not making any claims about our way specifically. Yeah, we don't have a lot of those fillers like a lot of brands. And it's actually those that are upsetting people's stomach, not actually the way. So.

Speaker B: Nice. Good to know. Good to know. I'll give it a try.

Speaker A: But, uh, talk to us about this origin story. I mean, from what I've gathered, you guys started back in 2023, so not that long ago, uh, giving samples out at a gym. Uh, but maybe this was tied back to the college project as well. So kind of give it. Give us a scoop here for sure.

Speaker C: Yeah. So Orion actually started at the University of Dayton, which I successfully completed one year of there before I dropped out. But it was in the entrepreneurship program there, which is a super cool program. They basically give you $5,000 to essentially just find, uh, a team, start up a company. And if you, uh, if you can generate that money back within the first year, then you owe them back that amount and then you get to keep whatever's left. But if you don't make it back, then it's. It's not really a true loan. So they kind of just, uh, keep it off like that. But it was crazy, man. Uh, we made it, I mean, truly just, uh, experimenting in my mom's kitchen and, you know, test after test, night after night. We eventually came to a blend that, you know, we tasted. And it, it actually tasted not just like protein powder, but delicious protein powder, unlike anything we've ever tried. And it was through just creating it naturally like that and letting friends and family try it. And then, yeah, like you mentioned, uh, uh, the sample approach that we've taken of letting local gyms try it, it's been a huge hit from the beginning. Everybody's rallied with our flavor and the passion we have for upsetting this, uh, this industry.

Speaker B: That's awesome. What were, what were like? Obviously, protein powder doesn't usually doesn't taste very good. What were. What was the reason you chose this category to jump into? And how did you know this would be a, a viable opportunity to kind of disrupt and bring it. Bring some better taste too?

Speaker C: Great question. So, honestly, initially there was, there was no plan to disrupt the protein powder industry. Um, but at first, you know, we knew we wanted to make a protein powder company. We, uh, truly didn't know how to start. So kind of what it looked like was a chocolate peanut butter flavor in mind. Well, what goes in a chocolate peanut butter protein? Well, it has to be protein itself, chocolate and peanut butter. And, you know, we couldn't get our hands on any like, lab made Peanut butter flavoring or anything. We didn't. We didn't have connections with any kind of distributors like that. So we truly just ordered. Uh, we actually started with a PB Ah Fit powder, which a lot of people are familiar with, and truly, um, just cocoa. Um, and I mean, it was as simple as just combining two very obvious flavors. And before we knew it, we had something that tasted, um, unlike anything else. And after, you know, of course, uh, that was about two years ago now. But since then, we've realized that all these other companies, they're just trying to cut dollars as much as they can. And, um, you know, they're not using the real stuff. They're just using things that taste like the real stuff, which in the moment, it probably seems like it doesn't have a huge effect. But of course, to us end users tasting the final product, it. It's very different in a good way.

Speaker A: Yeah. I've always, again, kind of consuming supplements regularly for, you know, half my life. I think, you know, you. You try to wrestle with, like, function or you have to almost choose function or flavor. There's very few supplements where I can say, especially on the protein side, I think there's only one. Before you guys, there was only one that I actually enjoyed consuming. It's more like I just accepted that this is the way it is. Um, pre workouts, I think I made a few more strides, a little bit more inventive on, um, the flavor profiles. I, uh, can't speak to the. The additional ingredients in there, but, um, talk to us about chalkiness, because I think you guys really focus on. I mean, you hit. There's two things in your packaging and your value prop. You really focus on no chalk. So talk to us about why is there no chalk? And then how the hell do you guys get the scoop on the top on the bag? Because I like. Gosh, every other supplement I'm digging, my hands coated.

Speaker B: I hate it, man. It's my. It's my least favorite thing when I order new protein.

Speaker A: These guys figured it out. Scoop was on the top of the bag. I didn't have a handful, uh, of powder and stuff embedded in my fingernails. Like, talk to us about those two things because that's. Those are massive unlocks.

Speaker D: Yeah. So in terms of the scoop, it's really simple. You just put the scoop in last. You know, I think. I don't know what.

Speaker B: This is crazy. That sounds so easy. Like, right? Like, why doesn't everybody else do that?

Speaker D: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So. And then in terms of the chalkiness, I mean, our products are not mass produced. We've always had this small business feeling and that goes into our manufacturing as well. Um, we are the ones manufacturing all of our products. And so we, we always ensure that we're doing everything properly. Um, we're, we're sifting everything very, very well. It's simple ingredients. Um, there's no like gums like a lot of the other companies, they throw those gums in there which, you know, hurt your stomach. Um, and then in terms of the chalkiness, I think it, it really just comes down to simple, uh, ingredients. Honestly. The real ingredients, real peanut butter powder, real PB2.

Speaker B: That's awesome. So you guys are manufacturing yourself, which a lot of the people we've had on. It's like they come up with an idea, then they search for contract manufacturers, maybe select one, it doesn't work out, or they, they lose some money because the contract manufacturer oversold capabilities. What led you guys to kind of keep it in, in house and manufacture yourselves? And how are you. How did you guys start approaching that is order volume started going up for sure. Yeah.

Speaker C: Honestly, in the very beginning, one thing we noticed that, uh, because, you know, we just simply looked up how do you produce protein powder? Where do we get this made? Who, uh, can produce it for us? And most of these places even get the lights turned on. You know, you've got to be ordering a, at minimum a couple hundred units. And this was an entirely. Still is a bootstrapped company. So it, it was really, um, a commercial kitchen was actually what we first started in. It was uh, actually in Cincinnati and being based out of Dayton, we had to make the hour hike pretty often.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a long drive.

Speaker C: It was. And it was, it was a pain in the butt too. But at the end of the day we saved a ton of money by truly having no minimums, uh, and you know, just making product as we needed it. It was kind of.

Speaker B: Where was the, where was the kitchen located, if you. If you don't mind me asking?

Speaker C: Oh, it was based off of Shepherd Drive, if you're familiar.

Speaker B: I don't know.

Speaker D: It's like it's Northern Cincy, probably about, probably about halfway between here or Cincy and Dayton. And I remember in our, in our first days, um, we were making quite a few bags even in the early days, and we would, we would have to show up at 10:00pm um, because that was, that was when they allowed us to, to start making it. So we would show up at 10pm and it would take us probably eight hours to from start to finish. So we wouldn't, we wouldn't be getting finished with production until like 4 or

Speaker C: 5am because they, they normally would rent it out by the table. But when we would go in there, we would take all of the tables in the space and, and shout out Pam, if Pam is listening. Pam, you're the best. You got us taken care of. But Pam would let us come in past 10pm whenever we wanted and just claim the entire space without paying, you know, ridiculous rent fees.

Speaker B: That's awesome.

Speaker C: It was, it was great. It was a lot of memories being made at midnight for sure.

Speaker B: That's awesome. And that reminds me a lot of the RX Bar. I listened to the RX Bar founding story and the founder was making it his own kitchen. Then he graduated and went to a commercial kitchen and then, then continued to get bigger and bigger from there.

Speaker C: That's how it goes, man. We, uh, we actually just got our first, uh, warehouse space about 15 minutes from us here in uh, downtown Dayton. But uh, we signed that last August and we're actually just about to start our second year's lease with it.

Speaker B: That's awesome. That's great.

Speaker C: It's been fun.

Speaker A: Well, clearly you guys, I mean, you've exhibited scrappiness, ingenuity to kind of get this brand off the ground. I think a lot of people have ideas and you know, want to be entrepreneurs, but they just like all the barriers to entry. Um, one of my favorite stories I was just kind of reading up on you all is the Orion rv. So like, tell us about like highlights of the Orion tour. Is that thing still running and being used? Like what's, what's happening? What's the word there?

Speaker D: Yeah. So the, the very founding story of Orion, kind of how we made it successfully was just going to these local gyms in our area, setting up our sample table and, and just meeting customers and creating a community. And I think everyone kind of knows Orion for that or a lot of people do, um, even to this day. But around six months in, we really started to see how much we were saturating these gyms. I mean we were going every day because we didn't. Then we didn't have much else to. We weren't studying anymore. Um, so then about six months in we decided, okay, what if we, what if we just take a big risk and we go to New York? So my, my, me and my brother actually bought this RV like two years prior to this and um, and like built it all out ourselves. We made it real nice Inside. So we loaded the whole thing up with probably 200 bags of protein, drove over to New York for an entire week and just went to every gym that would let us in and sold, sold and we sold out in, in that week. And from there we realized, okay, this is, this is going to be our success story. Everyone's so focused on these online marketing. Let's go in person, let's meet these people face to face. Let's create a real community. So the rv, I mean it was just an rv, but the real, real reason for it is so that way we can get face to face with people without spending an arm and a leg on hotels every, every night. So we, there was a couple times actually where we would sleep in the back of gyms and we would plug our. Because it was in like January, it was cold outside. So we'd plug the RV into the gym outlet and uh, and turn our little space heaters on and, and sleep. And then at like, you know, 6am before people started loading into the gym, we would go shower and then by 10 we would set up our table and start selling until 10 at night.

Speaker B: That's amazing.

Speaker D: Yeah, but no, it's not. It is not still currently, um, being used. That's, that's been in the shop for a little bit.

Speaker B: But from, I mean from the early days, like there's no better way than just selling one to one on one to uh, to your consumers and getting feedback. What were some of the things that you learned being in the gyms, talking to real consumers, getting them to try the product that you probably wouldn't have learned if you were just selling on a Shopify website and using Facebook ads?

Speaker D: Yeah, I mean I think everybody can say that community is the best way to get your name across. If you, you know, you can spend a lot of money through Meta and get on Facebook and Instagram and get your name out there, but people resonate to a product when they, they have a reason to. And I think, you know, going to these gyms, understanding what our consumer wants for one is, is huge. But then also kind of showcasing our personalities behind the brand. You know, why should they trust us? Well, because we're literally right in front of you. Well, how many other companies, you know, are the, are the founders actually going out and meeting their customers as consistently and uh, as we are?

Speaker A: That's a good point because I think, uh, pre. Sean and I were at an uh, e commerce agency once upon a time together. Um, and Sean's kind of got a career in cpg. But I think there was an era if you will, maybe the mid to late 2010s where I don't say there was like a lazy way to launching brands, but pre iOS update, a lot of people could, I mean um, you could kind of step a DTC site, you know, run meta ads fairly cheap and have a lot of targeting and then all of a sudden that, you know, that kind of evaporated and went away. But to your point, like just actually being boots on the ground, getting in front of people, letting word of mouth drive because that's so much more compelling. Like think we think about like the uh, the path to purchase for a lot of people. Like it's something if you haven't used it and like on yourself, you're pro. The next tier is probably like who are your buddies recommending, who's someone that you like and trust recommending. So if, especially if you work out and this is a very dedicated community, there's a ton of stuff on like Reddit and a lot of different groups and following in the supplement space or Twitch or whatever other areas. And it's like if you have one person that's very like compelling and convicted about um, a certain product, like everyone's going to jump on that. So I think really kudos to you guys for doing the hard thing and maybe the, in the, in the m. The era being as connected as we are via like technology like just opting to get in front of people like in the flash and have conversations.

Speaker B: Yeah, I found it. I found it. Yeah. I founded an insect control brand that was non toxic insect control brand in 2017. Launched on Shopify, grew it to a few million bucks. But I would go to all the like home and garden shows and like go to like Home Depot aisles and like talk to people. And that was where I would say, I mean we learned a lot from like reviews and everything else, but like the big product improvements we made to the product early on were all from feedback I got just actually boots on the ground talking to people and if you don't do that, I feel like you'd miss such a big opportunity to, to know what the consumer actually wants and you know, learn about the challenges or opportunities of your product. In the early days.

Speaker D: There's a great book I read, um, I forget who the author is, but it's called Super Fans and it talks a lot about how, you know, you have these very famous musicians who have people like girls with photos of them in their closet and just obsess over them. And I think Even though our, like, we're not necessarily um, putting our face out there in the same way that you know, an artist might. But our, our company is creating super fans. There are people who are so dedicated to just the name Orion. Even though it's just a protein powder, it, the life's too short. The community based around it is so much greater than just a product.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think the um, and that's going to create kind of that groundswell for you guys. So when you go heavier again, um, shinobi no strangers to the e commerce and digital marketing world. It's, it's an expensive kind of customer acquisition cost. So um, for you to really build that groundswell organically, that's going to create a halo and spillover and all your digital efforts. And then all of a sudden you know, people are going to be talking to you, talking about you guys in a couple years as this overnight success when you know, you, you've been, you know, already at it two years, but I think making a lot of m. Making a lot of great traction. Um, kind of one, one thing on this, um, again, you know, we talked about what you're, what you found as like the gap. I mean protein is supplements, uh, in general hyper fragmented. Like what else are you guys, what other niches, if any, are you guys trying to carve out? Like, as you think about, is it really focusing on like the flavor and quality of the product? Are there other like categories that you think can kind of bring what you've accomplished with protein too? Like how, how do you go about determining that?

Speaker D: Yeah. So in terms of flavor launching, um, it's always, honestly it's always a little bit tricky to determine what we should launch next. There's, there's things outside of protein powder that we've wanted to do, but it just hasn't felt like the right time. Um, when it comes to flavors, what we're really passionate about is making or using the real ingredients as our, as our base. So obviously whey protein. But then you know, for our cinnamon, we use real cinnamon in there. Our peanut butter, we use real peanut butter. Oreos, we use the real Oreo, you know, and we want to make that consistent across our, all of our launches. Um, I think that's a huge thing of what keeps us niche. You know, you look at these other brands, they use Cacao, similar to what we'd use, but they use you know, um, with alkali, processed with alkali. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. But when you're using the real Ingredients, people. Definitely tastes a difference. It tastes authentic. Um, so, yeah, I mean, when you ask about the niche, it's the chalkiness not being non existent in our product and the, the real ingredients.

Speaker C: And it's great too. I, I never would have guessed that a company could get as far as we have now with only three SKUs. I mean, truly, people ask us all the time, you know, are you guys going to release, uh, new flavors? And our answer is always yes. You know, stay tuned, be on the Instagram. But you know, I, I believe that strongly. If we only had one flavor, I think we could still have gotten this far. And it's really just, uh, kind of like we've been talking about more the, the vehicles of how do we get in front of people, how do we build these relationships that, you know, they almost matter more than, um, how sexy our website is or how many flavors we have. And just, um, yeah, just kind of built very strong, with a strong foundation.

Speaker B: But I think it's great because a lot of brands get into the trap of launching too many SKUs too quickly and then you're just tying up a ton of cash and inventory that may not move in. There's like the concept of the 8020 rule, which is 20% of your SKUs are going to drive 80% of your, your revenue. Whether you're a 10 SKU brand or whether you're a hundred SKU brand. SKU brand. It almost always proves to be true. So the fact that you guys have been able to keep it pretty tight, um, and that people like the flavors that you have, I think is super smart. Otherwise you're just burning time, energy and cash to launch new SKUs that may not perform as well as the ones that are already performing. So kudos to you guys for doing that.

Speaker D: Yeah. Can you guys guess which one of our flavors is our most popular?

Speaker A: I mean, as a consumer of the cinnamon roll swirl, I mean, I'm biased. That's my favorite. Uh, but I would imagine, uh, I mean, I mean, tell me if I'm wrong here.

Speaker B: I'm on chocolate peanut butter.

Speaker D: Chocolate peanut butter.

Speaker C: Chocolate peanut butter is a great guess. And it was chocolate peanut butter until we launched our cinnamon roll swirl. And it's, it's super close still. They're super close.

Speaker D: Yeah, it's like maybe 3% that. Which is so I guess for that 8020 rule. Yeah, I mean we're like consistent all across the board, but yeah.

Speaker B: Which is, which is rare. Which is smart because then you, then you don't have like a Bunch of unproductive skus and packaging and. And time just all sucked up into things, uh, that aren't moving.

Speaker A: Well, I think there's a couple other things that you guys do differently. Like let, like. Well, let's look at, like, the packaging here. So, um, one, a little bit of a different color palette.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: Than. I feel like a lot of supplements either. Try to be like, loud in your, like, a lot of dark, like a lot of black, um, a lot of red. Uh, you guys are kind of using more of a. Sorry if I mess up your color palette here, but more like a. Maybe like a teal. There's like some navy. There's some, um, uh, you know, some bright orange. So just in terms of color palette, like, you're gonna stand out. So, like, as you get more. More retail distribution, like, you're not gonna get lost in the wall of supplements is. It's gonna look a little bit unique and cause some intrigue. But then even from like, a branding standpoint, like, you focus, like, your hero language on the back is like, life's too short to drink chalk. People are like, yeah, protein typically sucks. Like, I drink it. Cause I want to hit my macros. But they don't want. They don't want to, like, just choke it down. They want to really, like, actually the idea of maybe potentially enjoying it. Um, and then also, you guys are a little bit like tongue in cheek with like, it's more nutritious than chicken, but tastier than a 5600 calorie milkshake. So, like, you have some personality there. And then, you know, on the instructions of, like, combine one scoop with milk, Almond milk, gorilla milk, lizard milk, hippo milk, whale milk. Like, there's just some things I think you guys do to kind of breathe some life and some fun into it as well. So there is, like, a little bit of a different brand equity and identity that you have versus, uh, like, think like Landia, who does like, synthesis and like the gold standard and optimum nutrition. All those guys, um, you can be a little bit more in your face and so really love how you kind of like, incorporated those elements.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was. It was super cool being at the Arnold and for the first time, you know, seeing a lot of these other brand owners who were, I mean, they're truly competition to a degree, but they were still shaking our hand, just acknowledging how cool our bags looked on the shelf and, uh, just honestly complimenting our branding, which. Which was super, super cool to hear from some of these guys who, you know, they're kind of our idols in a lot of ways. But, uh, you know, our packaging certainly stands out and um, we definitely love, you know, adding our touch of personality anywhere we can. That's kind of the, the one thing we've realized it's always worked from the beginning. Just like the, the logic with these sample tables of seeing people in person portraying that personality. We try to do that everywhere we can on our packaging online. Um, because at the end of the day, people do buy personality over. They buy, um, they buy personality more than they buy the flavor, the value or you know, anything like that.

Speaker B: 100 I back in the mid 2010s, I was leading the Old Spice brand for PNG and that was the whole thing. Everyone was talking about like how long their deodorant protected everything else. And then we just became like goofy and irreverent and sales exploded because everyone's like, nobody really cares if you're. You protect 72 hours versus 56 hours. It's like all this stuff kind of works the same. Just like make it about scent and make it fun.

Speaker C: Yeah. I've always loved and I know you guys have seen it, that original dollar Shave Club video.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, great video.

Speaker C: That video is, is. I mean I've watched that video probably a thousand times. Whether it's, you know, before we're about to record an ad in Instagram video, um, do some kind of product pitch or something. It's. I think that video is the best way to kind of tie in that personality with, I don't know, just light hearted, um, value at the end of the day is kind of what they're providing. But that's always been an inspiration for

Speaker A: us going out that you guys are our first Gen Z brand. On the podcast, how do you feel? I mean you may have alluded to it, but like, how do you feel like that's helping the business to grow? And do you feel like it's been a barrier at all with like trying to negotiate, like trying to break into for other people that are in your seat that might be in college right now and considering like, do I just, do I drop this? Do I pursue this idea? Or maybe they're 10 years into the career and they're hearing your story, like, wait a minute, these guys just went for it. Like, how do you feel like kind of being kind of at your age, like it's benefited you and then been an obstacle, if at all for sure.

Speaker C: So real quick, you mentioned earlier how um, businesses used to be very lazy back in like the 2010, 11 days. Um, and I would say that's the only downside to being as young as we are, because we completely missed the meta. Facebook. Just gold mine $10 and get 10 conversions on, you know, anything. Yeah, but truly, it has not been a barrier for us whatsoever. If, if anything, I would argue the opposite. I, um, mean, when people do see us behind these tables or, you know, at crazy events like the Arnold, uh, nine out of ten times, they do assume that we're just, you know, a spokesperson for the brand to some degree. But the minute that we tell them that, you know, this, this company is not only bootstrapped, but we are the founders of it. It always, you can always kind of see the sparkle in their eye of an immediate amount of respect from them, regardless of, you know, their background. Of course, when we're talking with, um, other brand owners or founders, uh, or whatever that might be, they, they can emphasize, empathize with us entirely. But it's, it's always a, um, degree of respect from a lot of these people that we're meeting in person. And, um, I kind of just helped attribute, uh, a lot of what we're doing to that, that exact point. People love small businessmen.

Speaker B: Agree. And I think, I mean, the competitive advantage you guys have too, is you can hop in an RV and go spend a week in New York and sleep in the rv. James and I could not do that with our, with our current obligations. So you can out, you can out work and, uh, out hustle some people at your current age, which is great.

Speaker C: A couple sleeping bags and a couple cans of meat, and that's about all you need.

Speaker B: That's all you need. I think the other, like, piece of advice, too is like, for anybody listening is like, you can just do things. Like, you don't have to wait for the next degree, the next credential, the next life experience. Like, you can just go do it and figure it out as you go. And I think all entrepreneurship is generally that, like, you can never truly prepare for it. You just gotta launch into it and, and start.

Speaker D: Life's too short, man.

Speaker C: Yeah, life's too short. Yeah. James said life's too short to drink chalk earlier. That. That was our original phrase, but kind of over these last six, eight months, we've really started shortening that to truly just life's too short because it's, it's, you know, entirely what our brand embodies, not just through us, but through people who try our protein, um, anybody else who is close to our team. It's, um, you Know a very much a spontaneous message of exactly what you just said, Sean. You can, you can just do things, you know, there's nothing holding you back.

Speaker B: What uh, so you guys, you guys have um, obviously done a lot of in person, built community. What are some of the marketing channels that get you excited? Uh, is a growing business. I know we talked a little bit about Meta. Ah, are you investing there? TikTok, Instagram, Google Search? What do you see as working in 2025 and what are you most excited about? Spending dollars on the future for sure.

Speaker C: So we do not have any physical, um, locations aside. We're working with a few brands, um, who are uh, our products in their retail stores, but we do not have any locations ourselves. Um, so we are, you know, primarily an online company. And with that it means, you know, we've got to nail content and we have to nail online marketing, uh, online advertising. Um, so we, we always have a lot of efforts figuring out how we can, you know, produce the next dollar shave club ad or um, just anything like that to truly get um, the same, the same ideology of these sample tables where it's so beneficial because people can try the product and they know our personality and with our ads, I mean 90% of our ads are pushing the same thing, which is some variation of a sample pack, um, which just gets good value in their hands, gets our foot in the door with these companies and immediately just creates some form of trust because we say that our protein tastes good and then it tastes great. And then of course when we follow up with good email marketing and um, even just great customer support, right now I'm doing everything with customer support. So when I say it's great, it is phenomenal. But uh, I mean we treat everybody like our, our only customer and I think that people really respect that. But we certainly haven't moved away from uh, the sample tables whatsoever. Um, that's, that's kind of Matt's thing where he's been really scaling it as quickly as possible. I'll let him take that away.

Speaker D: Yeah, I mean obviously Aiden does a lot of the online marketing. Um, he's kind of a wizard with that. Um, and then when it comes to these in person sales, I call it the, the vibe coordination. We go into these gyms and we, we give the good vibes. And so we've, we've been getting a ton of people contacting us, asking like, hey, you know, I met you guys at a gym. I really want to be part of this team. How can I work for you guys?

Speaker B: It's awesome.

Speaker D: And so we've, you know, we've brought people on before in the past to kind of, you know, go to, go to local gyms with us. But we've realized now people really want to be part of this team, especially younger guys and younger, uh, women too. So we're in the future. I think this is going to be the, it's going to be that story that people talk about later down the line, but we're going to go big with this. We're going to be in every gym in the nation. With, with our sample table. We, we know that one out of every two people that try one of our samples ends up wanting to be a, a customer. And so as long as we can get into these gyms and, and market our brand and get people to just try it and, you know, meet us, bring the good vibes, you know, we, we know we'll be successful. So that's the future of Orion, honestly, is just getting into every single gym, every bodybuilding event, every tennis match, every pickleball contest, like that's what we're going to be doing.

Speaker B: I think you said something really interesting of one in every two people that tries a sample ends up turning into a customer. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna make some broad assumptions and tell me if I'm wrong here, but if your, your focus is on really selling the sample packer to get, get all three flavors in people's hands, my guess is that's probably a loss leader for you. And you're not making margin on the initial sample pack and you're banking on the, the 50% of people that try it to come back and, you know, buy the flavor they like and then continue purchasing multiple times for the next year or two. Uh, how did you, how did you realize that was like the best, the best approach?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, life's too short. You know, we had to cast the, cast the net and see what it does at one point, and we certainly did back last fall when we started running these sample packs for the first time. Um, I mean, because we do all of our own manufacturing, all of our own fulfillment, we're able to truly get the best dollar on all of these operations at the end of the day. Um, so it certainly is a loss leader in that degree. Uh, but we, you know, numbers are everything, so we're tracking as many numbers as we can. So many numbers that it makes me sick sometimes just looking at everything we're tracking. But it's great because then we can look at you Know, the past three months or um, the past six months for a better example. We can see that um, of everybody who tries our sample packs that we have 24 and a half percent of those people who end up buying a full bag within those six months from trying it, which is a huge metric for us to know. I mean we can confidently say that it is just a numbers game and the more samples we send out, the more customers that we're going to acquire. And it's. Yeah, it's just been a scaling that exact methodology and um, kind of like I said a minute ago, just, just a numbers game throwing out as many nets as possible because we know they are catching fish.

Speaker D: That's great.

Speaker A: When you go think about content creation, um, I see you're pretty active. I feel like both on TikTok and Instagram, like what content's hitting for you, what's missing? What surprised you? Like, are there any outtakes? You're like, this isn't going to hit. And then all of a sudden it. And uh, that may m. Not necessarily achieve virality, but it just served up a great, great engagement, great impressions. Like, talk to us about your content strategy.

Speaker D: Yeah. So we, with content, we always try to keep it very authentic. I think it's very easy for brands to get wrapped into this like kind of over the top production.

Speaker B: Agree.

Speaker D: One, one thing we've realized, which is crazy, is that a good video does not need a good camera. It just needs an iPhone. And some of our, our uh, best videos were us just going to somebody's front door who was a subscriber and maybe they canceled and we would knock and we'd beg them to stay. You know, just with flowers. Yeah, with flowers. It's amazing.

Speaker C: Come back.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I mean people, people were talking about that video in person. We haven't had any viral videos so far. We're not even really going for that necessarily. Um, but people talk about the video and I think that's, that's something that we always try to stick with in our content is what gets people talking and that also showcases our true personalities. So it's always authentic, it's always real, it's always, it's always fun. It's all, it always has a skit to it. Um, so. Yeah.

Speaker A: And then do you guys like carve out? Is it just, uh, do you have a pretty plan, like content calendar? Do you plan like one day like, hey, we're just going to bust out. Like, I don't know if you know, Brock. Um, I'm going to Mess with his last name. Like, I think Mama Sir. Mama sir from Frostbuddy. I know he'll just like, isolate for like three hours in a day and just churn out a bunch of videos and then kind of see what hits. Like, how do you guys plan that out, if at all?

Speaker C: That's a good tactic. We need to start implementing that one. But we, we honestly are not making enough time for content creation right now. Uh, we know it's super valuable, but Matt and I have so many things to do right now to where, you know, we need to truly make a content calendar of what days are we going to sit down and do this? But honestly, with these last few months, it's been more of a kind of spontaneous thing. If we're making protein or if we're, you know, driving to Hot Head Burrito to get a lunch, you know, we might flip the camera on. But yeah, it's, uh, it's. It's been a very inconsistent thing for us. But with that inconsistency, we've been learning, you know, what works, what doesn't. And I mean, there's, of course, we're, we're pulling out our phones to record videos all the time and with the intention of not everything sticking. So we've got the right mindset. We just need to make more time for it ultimately.

Speaker B: Cool.

Speaker A: I've got to ask who this, uh, is a, you know, protein company after all. Who's. Who's the strongest guy or gal on the Orion team? Who can push the most metal?

Speaker D: Uh, I gotta say, Aiden's definitely. Yeah,

Speaker C: I drink a lot of Orion, man. A lot.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker D: Now when it, when it comes to, like, the pickleball courts.

Speaker C: Nah, I still take. Here at Orion, we're. We love golfing, we love pickleball. We try to do once a month, we try to get our whole team together, a whole, uh, uh, close team together and do some sport. And it was pickleball last time. I think. I think we. We're gonna do golf.

Speaker D: Yeah, we're gonna do golf. This guy's also the golf rum.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker C: I do a lot of planning with the sports that we do too.

Speaker A: Got it, Got it.

Speaker B: Yeah. One, One thing that we at, We've asked most of the founders that have been on here is from the time that you launch until now, most people usually have that, like, oh, moment where, you know, things might blow up or you think you might be. Be coming to the end or you made a. Might m. Have made a big, big mistake. Have you had that one moment from the time that you've launched and how did you recover from it?

Speaker C: There's certainly been more than one moment. I wish there was only one moment. But, um, there's. There's one situation that comes to my mind right when you say that when we. This was actually one of our first scaling problems that we had. Um, we were buying our protein from m. A kind of middleman supplier to where he was buying from, you know, the big guys and just kind of piecing it up to smaller companies like us. Um, and this was probably about. This is probably almost exactly a year ago, maybe a little bit more. But prices of way started climbing for seemingly no reason. Um, and he was telling me this that, you know, be ready for what might happen to the. The way market. And one day I just stopped getting calls back from him and I had. I was totally clueless as to what happened. I couldn't get a text, a voicemail, nothing. Um, and here we were, you know, starting to figure out what works, what doesn't. We needed product to move, but we couldn't make it because we didn't have whey. And that was when we started reaching out first to, you know, the big guys. And, uh, found out very quickly that minimums are almost always a pallet and that's still cutting it. And you know, a pallet of weigh is about 1800 pounds. So way more than the, you know, maybe, maybe 100, 200 pounds that we had been buying in the past. But I remember this. This was, um, it was probably February, uh, last year. Super, super nasty, snowy, icy conditions, I'm sure you guys remember. But, um, I had to drive up to Pennsylvania, um, through the night. And the. I mean the highway was entirely. It was just glass. It was glass. I probably saw 20 or 30 semis just completely capped in the. The median. And it was terrifying. The car was going everywhere. But we needed this protein the next day to be able to, uh, get into production. And everything was coordinated. But I ended up, uh, sleeping in the parking lot of a hotel. I didn't want to cough up the, you know, 50, 60 bucks or whatever it was. But, um, yeah, got the protein the next morning and we made it back to finish the batch just in time. But there was. There's another one. And Matt would probably actually be able to recall this a little bit better than me. But the, uh. Yeah, Chicago.

Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. So there was a, uh. That story was awful, especially him sleeping in the car and like, it was pretty much 0 degrees outside. So he. Yeah, I mean, he had the, The Car on with the windows kind of cracked, but yeah, then this, uh, this is another story in the winter again, still cold out. This was actually in the rv. So we, this was right when we got our credit card. And you know, you shouldn't give 21 year olds a credit card. But we ended up buying, we took a big risk and we bought. Was it, was it a pallet of whale or was it the bags?

Speaker C: That was the packaging.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. So we bought some, some new packaging and it was very, very nice, but there was large moqs on it. So we, we got quite a few. I think we ended up being transparent. We spent about like 10,000 on this packaging, um, on the credit card and it was close to the end of

Speaker C: the month and the credit card limit was probably 10, five, maybe 11 grand.

Speaker D: Yeah. So it was like we maxed it out just on this.

Speaker C: This is a big purchase for us at the time too. Huge.

Speaker D: And so we, we drive up to Michigan. I mean we're like about to miss our payment and we could not afford that. And, and so we, we drive up to Michigan in the rv, me, Aiden and another sales guy that we had on. And we end up going into these crunch fitnesses and selling as much as we can, staying until close. Like they were kicking us out, telling us we had to leave. And we, we, we ended up pretty much on the last day, I think is making that money back, being able to pay ourselves out and being able to pay the credit card off. And it was, that was one of the moments where we both looked at each other and we're just like all uh, right, like we gotta lock in. There's no excuses if we don't do this. Wow.

Speaker C: A lot of, oh, moments. A lot. Orion does not like the winter seasons either.

Speaker A: We do not like.

Speaker B: Yeah, amazing guys.

Speaker A: You guys got, as they say, uh, I think Confucius said this. You guys got that dog in you. Yeah. That's awesome. I love, I love like kind of hustle and ingenuity again like you guys. Um, I was super pumped to run into you and kind of see what you're doing and building. Um, you know, we want to be advocates for you all as you're kind of on this journey. So like, what are the best ways like consumers can find you? Follow you guys. Is it, is it Instagram? Is it, you know, website? Like give us a scoop to where we can go get your product.

Speaker D: If you go to the gym every day, eventually you'll probably see us. Um, I always push our Instagram. I think that's the. That's the best way. We don't believe in business cards. That's kind of our controversial take. We don't believe in business.

Speaker B: I believe it.

Speaker D: Yeah, but we. But Instagram is the best way to find us. We respond to all of our dms. Um, you go to our website, you. You message us in there. We'll respond to anybody. Um, customer service is huge for us. So, yeah, Instagram, our website. You can find our emails on our website. Email one of us.

Speaker C: Um, Orion subs on Insta orionsupps.com It's like the little thing says right here.

Speaker B: Perfect. Awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah, I can. I just want to say Aiden did respond to my dm. I did slide into the Orion DMS on Instagram to coordinate this back a couple months ago or start this process. So they.

Speaker B: They practice what they preach.

Speaker A: They are men of their word.

Speaker C: We try, man. A lot of dms. You're lucky that we saw you in there, James.

Speaker A: Yeah, probably because I bought a product.

Speaker B: Uh, if James. If James slid into my dms, I probably wouldn't reach back out to him.

Speaker A: Rightfully so. Rightfully so.

Speaker B: No, but thank you, guys. I think this is incredibly helpful. And if any of our fans found this helpful, make sure you like us and follow us on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. And please, like, we don't do this for any advertising revenue. We do it because we like to learn and we like to share people's journeys with other founders and. And brand owners at big companies. So if you found this helpful, just share the link to your. Your friends and co workers. Uh, it helps us grow and helps us keep doing this. So thank you, Matt, uh, and Aiden for. For coming on. And with that, we will end the show today.

Speaker D: Thank you, guys. It's been awesome.