Is Trust Now the Most Precious Metal?

Speaker A: M. You're listening to the bigcast, your source for the latest in financial technology brought to you weekly by the Best Innovation Group with your hosts, John Best and Glenn Sarvati.

Speaker B: Welcome to another edition of the bigcast.

Speaker C: My name is Glenn Sarvati on behalf of the Best Innovation Group, where we like to do cool things with financial technology and, and today we're going to be speaking with Deirdre Campbell who uh, will be digging into the latest Edelman Trust barometer. Um, particularly with regard to financial services Trust, one of my favorite topics, uh, on both fronts, both the data aspect and the trust aspect of it. So we'll be getting to that in just a minute. Before that, I want to remind you you can always find out more about the Best Innovation Group by checking out our website, big-fintech.com and after a one month break, let me suggest you also mark your calendars for Wednesday, July 15 and the return of the CU Town Hall. That's a live, lively and interactive roundtable discussion of the hottest topics facing credit unions these days. That will be taking place, as I said, uh, Wednesday, July 15th, 3:00pm Eastern Noon Pacific. Uh, free to attend but you uh, do need to register in advance and you can do that@cutownhall.com just request an invitation. Uh, you can also check out some of the past town hall replays while you're there to get a feel for it. Not 100% certain what the topic is going to be. We've uh, talked about potentially bringing in a guest speaker to get a little bit deeper into the AI conversation. Um, something tells me AI is going to be part of it regardless of whether that speaker is there. But uh, it's the summer months where you kind of wing it. But uh, hopefully people come with uh, come in hot as they say, quick

Speaker B: scan of headlines before we get to things and actually a scan of something

Speaker C: that literally just uh, crossed my box just before I hit record here.

Speaker B: Um, long awaited um, uh, decision from

Speaker C: the Supreme Court that ruled in favor of President Trump over the FTC Commissioner slaughter over the ability for the President to fire for without a need of cause, which was the way the law had been written, he can fire the heads of independent agencies before the end of their term. Uh, the case specifically relates to the ftc, but clearly has kind of spillover effect on the long standing situation that had been running at the NCUA with two of the three directors, uh, Todd Harper and Tanya Oetzka. So I think we can probably assume at this point that they will not be returning to their seats uh, since uh, Kyle Hoffman is also cycling off and we're in the process of the confirmation, uh, proceedings for his replacement as the NCUA chair. That kind of brings back a little bit more intrigue. We've been running with a one person board now for some time. Does President Trump then appoint uh, two new people and we'll have an entirely new board remain? That piece remains to be seen but there is a little bit of movement on that front. Uh, another thing in the headlines, Illinois seems to be uh, love the role of um, playing ground zero for payments legislation. They were clearly the uh, mover and shaker with regard to interchange with their uh, Interchange Fee Prohibition act which we've been talking about a lot. And uh, we can post a link to what most recently transpired with that. But I think we can make a decent assumption that that one's kind of on hold for now. It's at least been extended for another year. But they have now also passed uh, and the governor, Governor Pritzker has signed uh, Buy now, pay Later Consumer Protection act, uh, this one and it's quite similar to a law that was passed by New York state in 2025. So kind of interesting that you've now got uh, two of the biggest states in the country in terms of overall population, uh, working in this direction. Unlike the interchange one, this one seems pretty logical to me. Um, it requires clearer cost disclosure upfront before somebody enters into a BNPL agreement. And they point that people are using it as more of a regular course of business, including a statistic in there that I'm not 100% certain where exactly it comes from that uh, up to 29% are now using it for granted groceries, which of course is very different but you can make that same argument about credit cards. But the point being that you know, I'm not really sure why BNPL disclosure should be requirements should be any different than more broad debit and credit disclosures at banks. The other point that it makes, which I find almost humorous, it requires the lender to assess the borrower's ability to repay the amount that they're extending. Uh, that would seem to be pretty chapter verse of a basic financial arrangement. Um, if they're not already doing that I think we got bigger problems. But who knows. Um, also kind of related to that, a new J.D. power study and I'll ah, post it actually not that new. I think it came out in March. I'll post a link to this one as well. Shows that in terms of the provision of BNPL services, bank brands Rate significantly higher, consistently higher too in customer satisfaction than the ones that they call from quote unquote fintechs. I think fintechs are getting a pretty bad name in some of this stuff right now. I would just call them non banks. I don't know they're necessarily fintechs per se. It's a fintech based solution.

Speaker B: But the statistics that they showed on

Speaker C: a 1000 point scale banks tend to rate a little over 700 and uh, the fintechs or the non banks rate just over 600. That's a pretty big difference. And that difference has widened. Uh, the non bank satisfaction actually declined over the course of the last year whereas the bank branded satisfaction rose by uh, 59 points. So that sounds to me like a competitive advantage that uh, banks and credit unions ought to be taking advantage of. So that uh, interesting one and like I say, we'll post some uh, links in the show notes to that one. X Money has also moved one step closer to general release. Uh, they announced last week, I believe it was on Thursday the 24th or 25th that they um, are gradually rolling it out now to premium X users. Um, the list of uh, features, it continues to be rather appealing. Going to be interesting to see how it plays out in the marketplace. The one thing that really caught my eye is that they refer to a cash sweep program. They are paying a, it's a high interest yield deposit account with a cash sweep program that they say offers up to $10 million of FDIC insurance. Um, sweep programs are not uncommon. They are not terribly common for consumers. 10, uh, million dollars if you think about 250,000 is your usual uh, limit of FDIC. That would imply they're spreading it across 40 different institutions. I'd like to know how that one works. And something tells me the FDIC might

Speaker B: want to take a look at how

Speaker C: that one works too. That's kind of an interesting claim in my mind. Uh, kind of on a similar front to that one, I've started seeing commercials, uh, that Venmo is now integrating with Kalshi for prediction market funding. In terms of the bets you're placing, what could possibly go wrong on that one? Um, and sure enough I took a quick look.

Speaker B: Um, and um, there's complaints already forming

Speaker C: on this one on Reddit that the money access the flow in both directions, both funding bets and also paying off bets not running quite as advertised so far. Somehow I might have bet on that.

Speaker B: I wonder if Kelsey made offers on that one.

Speaker C: I don't know. But uh, just another interesting little Twist I saw. I've been a big fan of the Edelman Trust Barometer since I first, uh, stumbled upon it a couple of years back. Um, and you're probably sick of hearing this, but I believe the consumer trust is the single most valuable asset that financial, uh, institutions, whether banks or credit unions, possess. So I love taking a look at this information. I love data as well. And with a fresh batch of that data available, it seemed a perfect time to refresh our annual conversation.

Speaker B: I'm here with Deidre Campbell, the managing director for financial services for Edelman Smithfield.

Speaker C: Deidre, if I'm not mistaken, this is

Speaker B: probably our third annual get together on. I just love this report that, you know, and I'm late to the game three years, but I believe you've been putting it out for 26 years. Now, the Adelman Trust Barometer, uh, indeed,

Speaker D: the Edelman trust barometer for 2026 documents a further descent in trust globally. And I'll unpack that a little bit, but why don't I step back and offer a little context on the Edelman trust barometer. In 1999, you may recall the 40,000 protesters descending on the streets of Seattle to protest the World Trade Organization's conversations behind closed doors as it related to global trade.

Speaker C: Oh, the genesis. Wow.

Speaker B: Okay. I didn't know that.

Speaker D: Yeah, a real outcry really ensued at that point for transparency, for knowing, for an opportunity for dialogue. And Richard Edelman really looked at that and boiled it down to what are the factors that drive change, uh, and drive trust, and importantly, drive a lack of trust, which led to the Edelman Trust Barometer. As you said, 26 years of global data, 36,000 respondents, 28 countries. As it relates to trust in government, in business and NGOs, and in media, the question is literally how much do you trust each of those institutions in your own country? Because we believe that those institutions collectively, um, give a view into the mindset of where that country is today and where it's going as it relates to business, government, NGOs and the media. But if I.

Speaker B: And then you also. I don't know if this goes back the same full 26 years. You have individual deep dives into several, uh, business sectors.

Speaker C: And obviously, the one that I'm the

Speaker B: most interested in is financial services, which

Speaker C: we're going to dive into.

Speaker B: Does that one go back as long or maybe not quite as long?

Speaker D: That one goes back to two. 2012.

Speaker C: Okay, so you got 14 years there.

Speaker D: Good. In financial services. About five years ago, we really started to see the sentiment in these trends, both for the financial services sector as well for global business writ large, uh, tracking a global sense of fear, which then led to a sense of polarization followed by the following year, grievance became the number one topic. Then hostile, ah, um, active activism and now today to what we call insularity. We're defining insularity, uh, as a sense of really a shared reality eroding. And when we say shared reality eroding, um, just a couple of data points really rise to the top seven in 10 global respondents tell us that they are unwilling to cooperate with or, or work with people whose views, backgrounds or sources of information differ from their own. 7 in 10.

Speaker B: And that's globally.

Speaker D: That's not just the US that's a global number. You also find globally that um, there is a lack of belief in facts with the rise of disinformation, um, which is really not to be surprised, not that surprising. We also have found this year a doubling of the mass class divide in the last 10 years. And by that we define mass class divide as the difference in trust levels between the top 25 income percent of income earners in a country and the lowest 25% of income earners. And by that we mean that who they trust and who they distrust is different categories of people. And um, has doubled uh, in the gap of whom they trust and distrust. And in fact it is at 29 points now in the United States, an all time high. You see that division. Finally, um, we also see a terrible lack of optimism. Only 15% of respondents in developed countries believe that their families will be better off in the next generation. Why does that matter for financial services? Uh, it's tough for business in a nationalistic environment when a domestic brand is significantly trusted more than a multinational. Which means that for multinationals some countries are just going to be very difficult to sell in. We also see a rejection of innovation. In fact, uh, on a two to one basis in certain developed countries, uh, respondents are rejecting AI entirely. So it's head in the sand. But the bright gleaming hope in all of this, and this is very much the case for financial services, is that the employer is the most trusted of all those that we measure trust against. So the employer has the keys to the castle, has the opportunity to be the catalyst for change and build trust internally. And we can talk about action steps, um, in that direction. Before we wrap up this conversation.

Speaker B: I was about to say, other than that, Ms. Lincoln, how was the show? But I mean that you kind of gave us a couple of uh, Rays of light. And one of the things I do notice is within the financial services sector

Speaker C: we are one of the, on a

Speaker B: relative basis, the remaining bastions of trust, us and otherwise it seems like they, we're still on that, you know, on the positive side of that. Correct?

Speaker D: That's right. It's the most positive number in the financial services sector. Uh, edition of the Trust barometer, uh, unwaving all the way through the pandemic. The employees of ah, financial services companies trust their employer to do the right thing more than any other sector that we survey, which is really outstanding because when you look at all of the sectors that we survey, financial services is almost at the bottom. The only sector that is less trusted is fashion and social media. So um, to be the most trusted by your employer really, um, puts a spotlight on the strength of that employer employee relationship and the opportunity to drive um, you know, uh, greater trust and coalition and progress through, through the lens of business.

Speaker B: You know, one of the things that you kind of touched on this already. The, the, I found this a little bit surprising. It seems like the trust level is higher in developing countries than the already developed ones, kind of across the board. Like you see India and China tending to be like the places where you

Speaker C: see the highest level of trust.

Speaker D: Uh, very true. And, and we've seen that for many, many years across the board and we, we factor in, in developing countries that there is still a tremendous amount of hope and optimism for, um, Western conveniences, Western sort of modern, uh, ways of living, ways of consuming, um, media, ways of sharing content. And so there's a lot more hope in the developing countries. In the developed countries, you know, we're spoiled, we have very high expectations. Nothing's ever really quite good enough. Um, you often have a higher level of education in those populations that are driving conversations hard about improvement and progress. And I think that shows up in the trust barometer.

Speaker B: You know, I noticed also it looked like the US had the greatest decline in overall trust in financial services of any country. I think we actually fell behind the uk although overall we're still kind of like at the borderline between neutral and trusted, it seems like. And again some of the old line developed economies, France, Germany, Spain, Japan, Italy,

Speaker C: they're the ones that are like the least trusted.

Speaker B: Uh, do you see any correlation in terms of why they fall in those types of kind of buckets?

Speaker D: I think it's interesting to keep in mind that we are, believe it or not, 18 years out of the global financial crisis.

Speaker B: Good point.

Speaker D: And I think what you're seeing is um, the institutions are really sort of holding up and they're being able to manage through the pandemic and being able to managed through other shocks to the system. I think that distrust in financial services in the US is represented across many sectors, is that we're in a, in a position um, in the US right now where there are a lot of factions, um, in different sides of the aisle. And I think you'll see that sort of playing out across sectors. But it will be very interesting to see um, what those numbers look like over the coming years because I think we're in a, a tough political cycle at the moment.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean I think that you make a good point around AI too. I'd love to see even more of a drill down there. You know, in terms of when you first said kind of uh, you know, kind of resistance to innovation, it didn't immediately ring true when I think of more tactical solutions. But yeah, when you think about AI writ large, that is definitely a barrier that, you know, there's more than enough coverage and we see the pushback there.

Speaker D: Well, this is a general population survey, so you're not talking to people maybe that are in our industry in communications we're, you know, we're required to learn and apply and be the human in the loop and other industries. It's not quite the same yet.

Speaker B: Yeah. And of course you know, until you get to that population you're not going

Speaker C: to get mass adoption.

Speaker B: So it makes perfect sense. I was surprised by a couple things. In the financial services sector, um, it didn't surprise me that low income and left leaning individuals have less trust in financial institutions. I was surprised that it looks like the older code cohort is less trusting

Speaker C: than the young one.

Speaker B: And then I also was kind of surprised to see that online influencers don't fare all that well because that seems

Speaker C: to be one of the, you hear about Mr.

Speaker B: Beast and folks like that that seem

Speaker C: to be holding more sway with the young generation.

Speaker B: I'm kind of curious what your takeaways were from those.

Speaker D: Again, I would point us back to. I m mean you're right about that. Online financial influence are distrusted in 28 of the. Excuse me, in 19 of the 28 countries that we survey. Including, um, the U.S. right, including the U.S. um, in terms of developed countries, it is distrusted at 32. When you think of a scale to 132 being quite low. And there you see the divide again. In developing countries, online financial influencers are more trusted at 57%. Uh so that's high neutral to almost trusted at 60, um, and again gen population. So are you getting your financial advice from financial online influencers? Probably not. You're probably maybe listening with some, some interest and some curiosity, perhaps even some open mindedness. But I think that institutions and registered advisors are still um, seen as the, is the most trusted when it comes to this. But for us as communicators um, and strategists it sort of watch this space and be very careful about how we're applying online financial influences when and to what uh, what segment of the demographic

Speaker B: that make, that makes good sense. And yeah, another piece that I thought I found a little bit heartening is if you further disaggregate financial services, banks are actually doing okay. It's the uh, you know, and again it's the fintechs, the and uh, depending how we define fintechs and crypto, those are the places that seem to be dragging down the overall broader category of financial services. So again innovation, whatever you want to call it, that's the piece that maybe hasn't quite taken hold as much as the general news stream might lend you to believe.

Speaker D: Banks have done very well. And again um, we point back to uh, coming back out of the crisis over the last 10 years years banks are up 7 points uh into the trusted category. Again the trusted category is at 60. Banks in 2026 are at 65 globally and they are the most trusted of all the other subsectors including segments of insurance and wealth management and fintech. Um, and I think again you've seen banks uh, show up, their products work, they've been reliable, they've gotten ahead of situations and, and um, have proved to be very stable. Even among little ripples that may have shown up regionally the banking system overall is quite trusted and relied upon.

Speaker B: I don't mean to be kicking dirt on the crypto industry either. They're actually gaining at a pretty rapid pace.

Speaker C: I think they've actually closed the gap

Speaker B: a bit um, on the trust uh, level compared to traditional financial institutions. But the gap is still there and it's still pretty meaningful.

Speaker D: Yeah, they're still quite low. I would say they've only really gained about three points in the last five years. There's still 41. Uh, you don't get into the neutral category until 50 certainly. I think you know in the US we'll sort of watch the regulatory front and see how much um, how regulation. With regulation comes greater trust and adoption. Um and so we will be watching this space and hopefully seeing Some of the same. As these become more institutionalized and better

Speaker B: regulated with regulation comes greater trust and adoption. That's a takeaway quote for me. I like that one a lot. Um, the other thing that I'm hearing, I mean when you mentioned the distrust in global companies or companies that are headquartered elsewhere than your own home base, uh, given my proclivity toward kind of looking at community institutions, credit unions and community banks, I would argue that that would seem to be a bright spot for them too because they're at least, you know, they're really not selling to an international non US community. They're you know, at home sticking to their knitting. So in theory that should be a, a positive selling point for them. I'm not sure that people have necessarily thought about it that way. And in the grand scheme of things you still see the largest institutions picking

Speaker C: up bigger market share.

Speaker B: But would you agree that seems to be a bit of an opportunity to position that way?

Speaker D: I would say 100%. And uh, we've seen xenophobia pop up in the trust barometer over the last few years. But we've also the flip side of that is a real trust in local, um, you know, my banker, my teller, the people that I, that I trust my payments to, um, knowing, you know, those small business owners, like those faces that you work with on a, on a, on an everyday basis, that's, that's real and local is real and it's trusted. And I would say the more that credit unions, um, and really more sort of regional hometown banks can really play at that angle. There's a tremendous amount of trust in that, uh, particularly in uh, areas of the country that don't have the big money centers.

Speaker B: And then amplifying that the point you made earlier, that we've got a real benefit that uh, the trust of employers within the financial services sector, so your frontline staff that's actually interacting on a day to day basis with the customers, have a trust in what they're doing and what they're representing.

Speaker C: That feels like a pretty good equation.

Speaker D: Well, and I, I know um, you know, the research is all available@edelmansmithfield.com but I note that here because the research points to uh, what we're calling now trust brokering and trust brokering is a set of action steps that, that takes place within the employer. So the employer is the most trusted. We also see that business is the most trusted. So by trust brokering we're talking about a series of activities internal within a company that bring together leaders and stakeholders across the board to focus on common goals.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, as you know, I love this stuff and one of the things I love is that it's that Edelman Smithfield makes it freely available. And um, I'll post links to both the overall report, you know, for as you said, NGOs, government business, et cetera, and then also the financial services drill down and Edelman Smithfield being the boutique financial services arm of the broader Edelman entity. You mentioned the trust brokering. The other thing that comes up in the report is, you know, earning trust in high stakes moments. You know, the moment of truth. I've been talking about that a lot. That comes up a lot in the banking world is that. I take it that's kind of one of your takeaways of kind, uh, of a call to action of what to do with this year's kind of outputs?

Speaker D: Absolutely. I mean I think every, every financial services CEO is, is focused on trust. It's at the center of what it means to your money and moving your money and running your business. And so when we talk about high stakes moments where they don't always have to be, um, external, they can be internal, they can be local within your community. Um, but I think it's the consistency of message that allows you to sort of really go big on a high stakes moment to make sure that your message is very well understood, uh, and repeated often enough that it's can be memorable.

Speaker B: Deidre Campbell, Managing Director of Financial Services for Element Smithfield. Love these conversations. I really appreciate you taking the time yet again. Um, as I said, we'll be, uh, we'll include the links to those too. And um, if people want to find out more, what's the best way to

Speaker D: get in touch, uh, right there on the website or. Deidre Campbelltelmansmithfield.com Deidra, thanks so much. Thank you.

Speaker C: So the one thing that I feel I'd love to get a little bit more of in this study is there's no breakout of credit unions versus banks. There's no breakout of small versus large institutions. Um, it's already a great thing that they're doing. Financial institutions as an individual sector, this is a pretty significant undertaking about trust overall, writ large of government, of the media, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm certainly not looking a gift horse in the mouth here. And we've done some of that kind of supplemental research ourselves and hopefully, hopefully we can kind of wed the two. But uh, I think we can take it a step further. I know what we would like to think the Answer is in the credit union space, but even between small and large credit unions I think that would be an interesting piece of information.

Speaker B: But uh, this, this Financial trust overall

Speaker C: trust barometer, specifically in financial services I find to be a very valuable resource. Thanks again to Deirdre for joining us and we'll uh, post links to uh, both the overall barometer and the financial service plan specific one in our show notes. Speaking of those show notes, we're uh, going to be taking a one week break from new content. Uh, so as everyone kind of, I'm guessing there's a lot of vacations spanning the, the fourth of July weekend whether before or after. So you may be hearing this and then taking a break, you may be hearing this after the 4th of July weekend. But uh, hope you do listen to it, hope you do. Check out our show notes which you can do right there at the website big-fintech.com you can also find the show notes wherever you pick up the podcast. They should be posted on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon etc. Etc. And uh, if uh, if you miss us over the course of the week, uh, feel free to you know, kind of scroll back and take a look at some of the recent episodes including our interviews we uh, we did at the Financial Health Network Emerge conference recently that I thought were very interesting and the one just last week with Laura Gibson Lamoth uh, who was out there at Money 2020 and talking about the uh, implications of uh, all those conversations to the workforce development both in Georgia and as she pointed out both the state of Georgia that she represents and then as she started to find out the country of Georgia that's got some interesting stuff going on on their own side from a stablecoin standpoint and whatnot.

Speaker B: Don't forget also as I mentioned earlier,

Speaker C: July 15th we will be back with

Speaker B: new content on the Big Cast I

Speaker C: think that same week if I'm not mistaken. I think you can find new content here. On July 14th is usually when we uh, drop the new content on uh, on Tuesday afternoons but that Wednesday the 15th, 3p, uh 3pm Eastern, noon Pacific. Our next CU Town Hall. And you can request an invitation free to join. Just Register in advance. CU Townhall.com My name is Glenn Sarvati. You can find me via my firm 154advisors on LinkedIn. Probably the best way you can find uh, the best innovation group out there too as well as our grand poobah John Best, JB FinTech. With that, another episode of the Big Cast in the books as always, thanks so much for listening. See you in a couple weeks.

Speaker A: Check back each week for the latest from the big cast. Or better yet, we hope you'll consider subscribing for free via Spotify, Stitcher, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have questions or comments, we'd love to hear from you. Twitter, tweet, USG FinTech email infoig-fintech.com or visit us at big-fintech.com and click on the Media tab where you can post a comment or check out our archive of hundreds of past episodes. See you next week.