The Jamil's

Speaker A: Welcome to the Beyond Ethical podcast with Calvin Startup Garage. I'm um, your host Efrem Dykstra.

Speaker B: And I'm Halima Jameel. And today we have guests from overseas, all the way from Pakistan. We have Shumaila Jameel who is a housewife kids to three lovely mother to three lovely kids. Sorry, I said that wrong. And a business owner from the last 22 years. Uh, and we have Jameel Zubair who is recently retired from the army, who is working in sales right now and is the co founder of ABZ company. So over to you Shamyla. Do you want to tell us more about what do you work, what is your business about?

Speaker C: Hello. Hi.

Speaker B: Um, how are you?

Speaker C: So I'm good. Alhamdulillah. I'm very good. What about you?

Speaker B: We are good to.

Speaker C: Okay. So I've started my business since uh, 21 years back. And which exactly you want me to. Yeah.

Speaker B: What's your business about? So like what do you do? What have you been working? Ah, for the last 21 years.

Speaker C: Okay. I've been doing since 21 years a clothing business all over the world. Um, and uh, it's online business. I've not, I don't have a physical store and uh, I am doing it in US in Norway, Europe and in Middle East Dubai site. Oh. So I've not, yeah, I've not expanded it so much because it's uh, I don't have um, uh a physical store in Pakistan. When I started that time, um, it was very limited and I have started online.

Speaker B: Okay. So it's still online. 21 years later you're thriving online and you don't have a physical store and still you expanded in like the Middle East, Europe and the U.S. i feel like that's pretty amazing. Um, even if like you could, do you think you have a client based enough that you can. If you start a physical store, people would love to come in and would know you or do you think it's like you have your designer to specific families or is it more like a service that you provide to certain families?

Speaker C: No, actually my thing is that like, because I was a housewife and I never wanted my uh, family to be disturbed. So I, I want to give, give uh, my time to my kids, you know and my family. So that's why I never prefer uh, to be a part of you know a very big um, you know I don't want to expand it too much. I just wanted to have a limited one because I wanted to give time to my family, my Kids. That's when I'm not expanded. Otherwise I would uh. If you know you didn't have a

Speaker B: family, you would have like gone. You have gone with other venues as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: So um, we have Jamil with us today as well. Okay. Do you want to tell us more about your business? Um, what do you do? When did you start it? Um, since you are the co founder, who are the other co founders with you?

Speaker D: Hi everyone.

Speaker B: Hello.

Speaker D: I am Jamil. Hello, I am M. Jameel Zubair. I got retired from uh, army two years back. Uh from the rank of colonel after serving 27 years. Uh, after my retirement I got job in a bank. Uh, my portfolio is to handle the uh, business of the bank with, with the army. They have uh, uh, payroll accounts of the soldiers in their bank. They wanted me to supervise them. Actually the um, banks and the other organizations, they hire the military persons because uh, they have easy access to the military and.

Speaker B: Yeah. And since you were recently retired.

Speaker D: So it is like uh. But they, they get help. Yes. What you are saying.

Speaker B: Yes. Since you were recently retired, they had an inside person with them in the bank then.

Speaker D: Yeah. It's like uh, uh, uh. There's no negative strings attached. It's like uh. But they have easy assess.

Speaker A: Uh.

Speaker D: I mean they know a person who

Speaker B: has, who understands the industry than them. Yes.

Speaker D: Their apartment and everything.

Speaker B: So when did. Since you were. You just recently got retired, started another job. When did you get into this ABZ companies where you are a co founder. Uh, when did you started this? What is it about and what's um, your role in the company?

Speaker D: Okay. When I started this job uh, I realized that it's uh the basically the requirement of the military persons. They are well understood by other army persons. These civilians are uh, who are not uh, linked with the army. They cannot understand the requirement of the military and they don't at times they don't understand uh, their language as well. So uh, uh. So we, we are three uh. Colleagues. We were colleagues. So we three. We three are doing jobs.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker D: We all are doing different jobs. So we three decided to start a company and less uh, uh uh, let's see the requirement of the army and let's uh. Give them the solutions to their problems which is cost effective because uh, the equipment which is being supplied to the army they are. They come from abroad and it's quite expensive. So we wanted to give them a uh, local solution. Make something which can fulfill their requirement and can be manufactured locally.

Speaker B: Okay, so what are the products that you provide um, to the army. And since you said is it like related to the payrolls account or is it relate. Is it something completely different from that?

Speaker D: It is completely different. Payroll account is my job, huh, with the bank. Whereas in the APZ company we normally provide them with the uh, communication equipment, these spares, uh, the equipment which they are using already using uh, their spare, their maintenance. And um, we have manufactured um, dish, our satellite dish which is man pack and um, uh, which we uh, want to sell it to the army because it is their requirement.

Speaker B: Uh, so it's basically related to communications that the services that you are providing. And so you, since you have served in the army for so long, is it that emotional connection that you still want to serve your country and providing locally sourced equipment which will be cheaper for them and also um, uh, proves your loyalty and that emotional connection that you have with the army.

Speaker D: Exactly. Uh, this is one thing. And secondly, after getting retirement there's no uh, disconnection. You still uh, remain connected with your old colleagues, old organization, uh, because you visit them, you talk with them. So there's a connection, uh, which is being continued.

Speaker B: Yeah, it gives me an idea that you are not ready to retire

Speaker D: mentally. Not mentally.

Speaker B: Yeah, you really like being in the army. Um, so let's go back in time a little. So when you were in high school or when you were in college, did you ever think of starting your own business? Did anyone in your family, did you have a background in business? Um, and same for you Shamyla. Did your parents uh, ah, were they in the business community? Did they have a business or were they all working? Um. What gave you an idea of starting your own business? Did you have those necessary skills from childhood or was it like a completely different journey of self discovery?

Speaker D: Well, my father was a businessman but I never thought of coming into business. Uh, I wanted to join army, which I joined later. So it is just after the retirement that uh, I decided to join rather. Uh, two years after the R. One and a half year. One year after the retirement I decided that with the job I must do my business as well.

Speaker B: Uh, and what about you Shamila? Did you had a business background in business or was it like a completely new journey for you?

Speaker C: No, actually um, my background is something like related to an army because my grandfather was in, was an army then my father, my brother and now my husband. So I had a completely different, you know, uh, job based uh, uh, family. No one is, you know, till now nobody's uh, doing business. So I think I'm the first One who has started, uh, this, uh, so I have no one there.

Speaker B: Okay, so you had, you had no one to guide you. Uh, sorry, no one was there to guide you. Like everyone was working jobs around you.

Speaker C: When I started 21 years back even. No one in my family has even thought of that. Um, I'll start that because I have some art related, uh, you know, some connection. So uh, that is why I think I have chosen this designing business. Because if I would uh, have not been um, a clothing cloth designer, I would have been some like, you know, I do some furniture designing or something like. Sorry, so you. Yeah, yeah, I do painting also. So I have some, you know.

Speaker B: So you have some skill sets and like art.

Speaker C: Art basically, yeah, fine arts.

Speaker B: So um, did you have a degree in that? Um, did you um, when you were in high school, did you study arts when you were in college, did you pursue that line or were you.

Speaker C: No, no, no. Actually when I, uh, when I was in high school, my uh, in our society, uh, in Pakistan, um, we were never encouraged to do, you know, art subject. We were always being like if you're a woman you should do something like, related to the um, medical or some,

Speaker B: you know, engineering also be a doctor.

Speaker C: And there's no other way out. Yeah, I mean not, you know, people don't think it's a good idea for the girls to do something else. So at that time 20 years back, the things were not so open. So being an artist I was never encouraged on this from my parents side. So you know, later on I have started this and my, my studies were completely different from the. I've done pre medical so I never wanted to be a doctor. So you know, when you have no interests, um, then you don't become a doctor anymore. I just then very later on I completed my uh, studies after my marriage and then I, yeah then I started you know, this business and all that.

Speaker B: Oh, that's great. So like you broke all the stereotypes and um, without like being in a society that doesn't encourage a woman to study arts and um, you also pursued a degree in pre medical and then you started your own business in something you were interested in. I think it's a great achievement that you broke all the stereotypes um, in the society and then started a successful business that has been running for the last 21 years and you have expanded internationally as well. So moving on, like um, since Jameel mentioned that all the resources were he wanted to provide um, army with local solutions, um, uh, devices that were locally made instead of imported that in turn help the economy, I'm sure. And that also like helps uh, the army, um, save up a lot of money and invest in other areas. So what about you, Shumaila? Do you like, import your products as well? Or is it like locally based, um, and locally made? And what do you. How do you like, design clothes and how does your business look?

Speaker C: Actually it's, you know, it's very uh. It's um. Uh, basically it's a traditional, um. What I am doing is a traditional thing. Traditional dresses which I am export exporting to the Pakistani, um, dresses which I am supporting to the. All over the world. I want uh, to be. I want uh, you know, my um, all Pakistanis to be connected with the roots and the values. So that is why I encourage um, to design uh, pasani dresses. Although there is a club, you know, there is a collaboration between the western and the Eastern, um, dining. But still, uh, I am. I prefer doing it. Our clothes because I want them to be connected wherever they are staying or in the world. They should be connected with all um,

Speaker B: roots, themes and all things and yeah, clothes and language. You speak, the food. I feel like these are an important

Speaker C: Pakistanis living in, uh, living abroad. Abroad. Um, they should uh, have the opportunity to wear all the uh, dresses, uh, which I am providing them. Yeah. So that's the main thing.

Speaker B: And I feel like the way you dress up is a huge part of your culture, including your language and your food. Um, it defines you. It. Like even when I'm over here in, in my university and whenever I wear clothes from back home, I feel really connected to my culture and it's really. It feels really nice. It feels really nice. It. I feel connected to my roots. It does. Uh, even though I'm like miles apart from Pakistan, but I still feel connected to my roots. Even. Even it's a piece of clothes.

Speaker C: This is the main thing, what we can do when we are sitting so far. We can. We can encourage all that things by we. By eating, by, you know, by when we are connected to our things, our values. So these are the things we can, you know, provide b. Sitting, uh, so far.

Speaker B: So what about the. So what about the uh, raw material and the designing is it's all locally based or do you have to import clothes from uh, other countries? Because as far as I have heard, I know like Pakistan, um, uh, Pakistan makes uh, their own cotton and then their own uh, cloth out of cotton, so.

Speaker C: Very true. It's like whatever I am doing, it's from the Pakistan and the fabric, the raw Material, uh, even people know the, the. The labor is very cheap in Pakistan, so we can't uh, we don't need anybody, uh, you know, to import anything from anywhere. So our labor is very cheap. Our raw material, our everything that tailor our stitching is very good in Pakistan. It's ext. Even I think most of our uh, uh, international brands, you know, are making um, the fabric, uh, over here in Pakistan. So we have the excellent quality and everything is, is. Is best in Pakistan. So I'm reading everything from here. Yeah, funny thing, I don't need anything from port. Yeah.

Speaker B: So funny thing, if you visit the campus bookstore at the Calvin University, all the hoodies that you see in the campus bookstore, it says Made in Pakistan. So when I saw that, yes, when I saw that for the first time, it was hilarious. I was like, that's. It felt so nice seeing your country's name over there. So yeah, also that, that explains that both of your businesses are um, manufacture everything locally and when it comes to your business, it's like very authentic since like uh, from the cloth to designing and then stitching, everything is made in Pakistan following the authentic process.

Speaker C: So yeah, we actually don't have so much opportunities over here. But still we are doing and we, you know, encouraging our things to be improved and you know, um, our business should be expand and the things over here is, is in a very good quality. It's excellent quality and uh, we don't need anything that we should import from other. We don't require to import anything. We have everything and it's been a very good quality.

Speaker B: Okay, um, uh, coming over to you, Jameel. Um, do you want to tell us more about how, what, what is the structure of your business? Since you're like you told me m these, you have like two more co founders with you. How do you divide up the work? What's your role in the business and how does everything. Like what's the structure of the business? And then Shamayla, I'll be asking you the same question. How like how many people do you have employed in your business and what's the structure of the business?

Speaker D: Actually it's more group. It's more of a group of friends than a company. So as I told you that we uh, three are doing jobs as well. So there is no hard and fast rule that who will do, uh, any. I mean there's no specified jobs that you have to do this and you have to do this. It all depends that uh, um, for example, if I know someone in one organization and he is more close to me then I will uh. I will enter into that organization and try to fetch the business. If my other friend, other colleagues, other business partner, he is uh, he has links in some other organization, he will go there. So it's like that. And then we uh. We have uh, I mean a lot of communication going on between each other. We share the ideas and uh, share the uh uh. And discuss different things. Then uh, as far as uh, manufacturing of different things is or uh, you need to uh, get the spares from the market Then whosoever is free, he uh, uh. I mean in that time frame then he. I mean he take over that job. So there's no specific job that this one is to be done by this one. So it's more of like a group of friends or group of colleagues and it's very easy going.

Speaker B: But your, but your business includes a lot of technical products providing to the army. Um and I'm sure like um. That is something really technical and not everyone can do that. So who hold like who understands these technicalities about the devices that you're providing to the army back in Pakistan? Um, who understands these devices? Because I feel like if you don't have the knowledge and the expertise um in that field, um. I don't think you would be able to understand that. So like does anyone of you um, hold a degree in engineering or um. Is it something that you learned during your service in the army? How does that work?

Speaker D: Okay, actually in, in the communication branch of army there are many different. It's very vast. Uh, even if you talk it technically there is satellite uh equipments, there are radio equipments, there are line equipment, there are exchanges their microwave. So it is like this that as I uh, am more uh. Uh during the course of my job I was more involved in light communications. So I look. So if something is related to that, I'm. I'm more confident of doing that type of uh, work. Whereas my other friend, he is more technical in uh like networking and uh, like microwave equipment. So if any order pertains to that, so he is m. Pretty. He takes the leading role. So uh, although we all know each other a little bit of the. I mean if. If ask me of anything about the line equipment or anything about the microwave equipment, I have the knowledge. But my other colleague is more expert in that. So uh, it depends on the job, nature of job. As I told you that we very frequently meet, we have extensive communication between us and a lot of meetings and discussions. So um, basically um. It is not an Issue. We all deal with these, we all deal with it.

Speaker B: And when the business is in the starting phase, I feel like um, the co founders and the founders are basically doing everything. They're, they're, they're the salespersons, they're handling the marketing, they're handling the expert decisions. So basically you guys are doing everything.

Speaker D: Exactly.

Speaker B: And what about, what about you guys is like, what, did you guys graduate from college? Like what did you study in college? Did, did it had anything to do with what you're doing right now?

Speaker D: Well, um, all three of us has joined army after doing their high school. So no professor studies at that stage. But after joining army, uh, um, myself and one of my colleague, we went, uh, telecommunication engineering for three and a half years from a very renowned university. Basically army has sent us there because, because of the nature of the job. Okay, so we two of us are the engineers. And then behind uh, this is like 27 years of uh, practical experience serving in the army and dealing with the equipment.

Speaker B: So. So okay, that makes sense. That explains a lot that two of you are the telecom engineers in the field. Um, also, do you have any other employees in the company or. Right now you3 are handling everything?

Speaker D: Uh, we three are handling anything. Uh, uh, but uh, if there is, if there's a requirement of some project where uh, we cannot spare time so we, on a contract we can hire. We have, I mean There are 1, 2, 10, 6. We have hired a um, individual who handle all our things and reports us. Okay, so the, all the uh, I um, mean work in the field. He's, he, he do all the work in the field for us. So. But that is not a permanent job. We hire him on the contract basis just for that project.

Speaker B: Okay. Okay. Over to you, Shamayla. What do, how does the nature of your business look like? Are you the only one handling everything? Do you have other employees? Do you hire them on contract basis? How does things work in your business?

Speaker C: No dear, I told you that when I have started it was my online, online business and I am the uh, founder and I'm the CEO of my company. And uh, still uh, now till now, uh, I'm only. I have had some tailors, you know, some workers, some labor, staff, but not a very, you know, huge manpower and all that. So I am the only one who is, you know, doing all that.

Speaker B: Oh, so you, you handle basically everything when it comes to management and everything, but you have contract workers who work for you like tailors and use.

Speaker C: Yeah, I have tailored for the stitching. I have labor for the who is doing my embroidery, embroidery work and all that. Otherwise I am the only one who is handling all the work.

Speaker B: Oh, that's great. Even 20, uh, one years into the business, you're able to do everything on your own and then you're contracting um, uh, employees, um, which is great. Um, so I have one more question from you guys. Um, since um, uh, Jameel, you had worked your entire life and you just recently started your business, it is in the starting phase. What do you think, um, what inspired you to start this business at such a later age in life? And what do you think? What were the major differences that you felt instantly, which were like cultural shock I would say, from switching from a completely job environment and working environment to like handling your own business and being a co founder in a company.

Speaker D: Okay. The actually the biggest difference between a job and a business is because in business you are the boss. You have your own rules. So I mean you don't have to follow the rules made by others. This is the biggest thing. I m mean and uh, all the uh, I mean if you want to implement all your good or bad ideas whatsoever, you can implement your ideas. So uh, there's a huge difference between job. In job you have to follow the rules made uh, by others. And uh, moreover you are doing all your work, you are spending all your energies for others. So there's not, I don't think so. There's much uh, motivation unless there's a single motivation that you are serving the nation, that is one thing. But otherwise I think uh, after some time you get bored in the job because there's no motivation. Whereas in the business you don't get bored. Every day is a new day. You are looking for more, rather you are hunting for more business. And uh, uh, you enjoy it because every business you get, you get more energy. So uh, there are lots, I mean these are the major differences and job and business. But uh, I think after doing job for so many years it's a change and change is always good and you enjoy the change.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think people should take inspiration from that. Um, I've heard a lot of people say that um, uh, you have worked, you have been retired once and people don't usually recommend starting a business at such a later age in life. But I feel that you seeking these opportunities and experimenting with life, this is, this is such an inspiration from me, for me personally because it tells us that age is just a number and you, you have opportunities like you can do anything whenever you want to do and God Has a plan for you.

Speaker D: But actually, uh, you know that in army in Pakistan you get retired at an early.

Speaker C: Uh.

Speaker D: So you have a lot of time still left.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker D: And you like to do something.

Speaker B: Okay, so I, I assume that you're not that old. Okay, so you're not 60, but still, um, I mean you served for 30 years, which is uh, which is a lot of years being in the army and then starting your own business. Usually like now that I am starting my own business, I'm 21. And you must be like 30 years older than me at least.

Speaker D: So actually after getting retired from one job, doing another job is more difficult. But doing business is easy because it's totally a different change.

Speaker B: Huh.

Speaker D: Because once you are retired from a job. So I mean, it's like another life which you are starting.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker D: So, so. But the business is, I mean if somebody get retires from a job, I think business better option for him.

Speaker B: Okay, thank you for the tip.

Speaker A: Um, I got a couple questions here. So what, are you both Christians?

Speaker D: No.

Speaker A: Okay. What, what do you believe?

Speaker C: We believe in a God.

Speaker B: So they're Muslims, basically. She, she just said that.

Speaker A: Okay, um, so then with starting your businesses and you're both at completely different stages, um, so this has impacted you slightly differently, I'm assuming. But how has your, your faith and what you believe and like the core values that you hold impacted how you've started your business and um, how you've started to grow them.

Speaker B: Do you want me to translate that in like um, in Urdu for you once?

Speaker C: No. Basically he's asking, uh, what is our faith and, and, and how we implement in our, in our, in, in our business?

Speaker B: Yes. Uh, how do you implement your values in your business and your day to day operations for the business?

Speaker C: It's simple. I think in every religion it's same. Even in the Christian Christianity and even in the. If we are Muslim, that we should be very straight and we should be very clear and we should be very honest in our business. We should not, you know, uh, do something. What, um, we call it, uh, uh,

Speaker B: you don't want to, you don't want to like double play someone or.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Lie about something.

Speaker C: We should have some, you know, um, values of the uh, of our. What we call it.

Speaker B: Sure, go ahead.

Speaker C: Uh, Or uh, we should not double play it. We should not say anything wrong. We should, you know, when we commit something in business, we should, you know, be generous with it. We should be honest with that thing, I think.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can translate that for you, for

Speaker C: everyone in Every nation and in every

Speaker D: religion, uh, in my opinion, uh, in the business does not matter what fate you are following, whether you are a Christian, you are a Muslim, you are a Hindu, you are a Sikh, whatsoever fate you follows the moral uh, requirement. The moral values for uh, business is the same for everyone. And uh, if you don't, whether you are a Muslim, you are Hindu, you are a Christian, whatsoever. But you have to follow the same moral values in your business. You have to be uh, honest, you have to, you don't require to take undue uh, profits and all other moral requirements which uh, I mean which should be there in our business. They are the same for every faith I think.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I think I get that from you and Shamyla that you prefer and you try your best to be honest with your dealings and uh, whatever commitments that you make, you try to follow through them instead of. So like this is what um, this is how you incorporate your faith in your uh, business.

Speaker D: And one more thing I want to say that whether you are doing business abroad because sometimes you require to uh, uh, get something from abroad also in my business and you have to sell something abroad like show my last business. So no one ever asks you what faith you are falling. No one ever interested in your faith. They are just interested in your moral values and how honest you are in your business. And whether you keep your commitment or not, that is more important for two people doing business with each other rather than their faith.

Speaker B: And I feel like when it comes down to any um, religion I feel like the basic things that any religion teaches us is the same whether it's, whether and when it comes down to a business or owning a business, honesty, um, ah, commitment to God. And if you have a commitment to God you will be honest in your dealings. You will have a purpose to your business. And that purpose would be serving the community like you're serving your country and Shamayla is serving Pakistanis overseas. You will have a purpose, you will have that drive to serve the community of God. So I feel like no matter what religion you come from, if you're connected to God, you will be, you will have those values in your business and a purpose in your business.

Speaker C: If you're a good human being basically then religion I think, uh, don't you know, matter in the business. So one should have the values. If you have good values then I think you should be a successful business keeper.

Speaker D: And moreover you see the globally, you see, see that um, uh, for example, uh, Chinese, they are uh, Chinese, they are of a different business Americans are European. They are more of, uh. More. Most of the people are Christians, and they are doing business with each other. Pakistan is doing business even with India.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: Okay. So. So different countries where there are people with different religions, they do business with each other.

Speaker B: So there's a. There's a lot of collaboration. Yeah.

Speaker A: Have you found yourself, um, through your business experience, have you found a. Like a trial or a situation where you had one opportunity, but you chose to turn it down because of your faith?

Speaker B: Do you want me to translate that? Okay, so, um. He's trying to say that, um. Was. Did you find yourself in a position. Or. Let me just say it in Urdu. Um, did you, um, Values. Opportunity, turn down.

Speaker C: M. Yeah. Okay. Uh, for me, yes, I've done that. Because, you know, we are Muslims, and we have certain, you know, uh, lines. I don't know if I should say this or not, but for me, yes. Uh, I refused once. I remember somebody from the U.S. uh, she ordered me. Uh. She. I think she was a Hindu. Some. Yeah, she was living in New York, and she ordered me some dress where, uh. Uh, it was certain. You know, I. I don't make that sort of dresses. You know, it was a, uh, Western, and it was not the, uh. Which I used to stitch. You know, we have some, you know, some certain limits where I can't.

Speaker B: Certain limits of modesty is that you're referring to. Certain limits of modesty that you're referring to. Okay.

Speaker C: For the, you know, for the stitching, for, uh, even I. But I do stretch your sleeveless. I do stitch, you know, um, deep necks and all that. But, you know, they have something. A very short, uh, dress that. So that I, you know, refused to make that.

Speaker B: Okay, so, like, what you're trying to say is, like, um, your religion, even in Christianity. Uh, I've been with other students who have been working on their business, and modesty is a big part of that, um, Christianity and Muslim religion. So you refuse to stitch certain clothes that were out of that line of modesty for those, uh. For your religion or any other religion where. And you followed through that. Okay, that makes sense. So you had. You had your own, um, limits for that.

Speaker C: Rules. And, you know, you can say my norms and my value. So that is why I didn't, you know, um. You know, even she was paying me a little bit more.

Speaker B: So you turned down the profit.

Speaker C: Sorry.

Speaker B: So you turned out that profit so that you could stick to your values.

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I didn't take the order for that. I said sorry for her. You Know, I said sorry to her, and I didn't do that. So that was the first once I have experienced this thing.

Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like, um, coming from a certain, um, country, religion University, I feel like you're. You're not only representing yourself, but you're representing a community. And if you had certain values and you have certain limits of modesty that your religion tells you or your community tells you, um, you stick to that.

Speaker C: That.

Speaker B: What about you, Jameel? Did you find yourself in any. In such a position?

Speaker D: Yeah, actually, this is a very good question. And, um, now I realize that why he has asked this question, uh, the question regarding faith before this question. It's a very good question. I really liked it. But, uh, fortunately, I have never encountered any such situation, neither during my job and neither during the business, uh, time from last one year or so. But, uh, when I started my business, I never encountered any such situation so far. But it's a very good question.

Speaker B: So since.

Speaker D: Yes, since I have not encountered it, I have never encountered any such situation.

Speaker B: Okay, so, like. Okay, since you're new, like, your business has. Is just like under an ear. It just started under a year.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: So do you have any. Any plans, um, on how will you navigate a situation if you come through one in the future?

Speaker D: Well, it's a. It's a difficult question, but you never know that, uh, whether I will go for it or, uh, I will not go for it.

Speaker B: Oh, you. You. You might compromise your values.

Speaker D: I mean, it depends on the money. We are making a huge profit. Why not?

Speaker B: I was not expecting that.

Speaker D: You should think like a businessman, not like a Muslim. If you're doing business, then you should be.

Speaker C: You should have certain values now. You should have certain values and norms. You can't go beyond that.

Speaker A: Would you say your co workers share similar values? Um, would you say that your co workers or your co founders, um, share similar values to you?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: Oh, so you guys are friends and you have the same mindset.

Speaker D: Yeah, they are of the same mindset. That's why we are working together.

Speaker B: Yeah, but you might have, like, certain, um, I would say certain lines that you would never cross. Since you're working with the army, I feel like you shouldn't be selling out your country at least.

Speaker C: Of course, of course.

Speaker D: I mean. Sorry, please repeat your question again.

Speaker B: No, I was just saying that you might have certain lines that you wouldn't cross. Like, since you're working with the army and providing them with equipment, I hope you won't sell out your country.

Speaker D: Of course, of course. I mean we are just three of us and uh, uh, as I told you, we discuss a lot. So even uh, I tell you that why we are getting this business because we are taking very less profit from the army and we work on a very less profit. And the other people who were working with the army before us, they were taking huge profits.

Speaker B: So you're basically serving the country at this moment.

Speaker D: So we have uh, our values. And secondly, uh, how can we sell our, our wrong thing to the army? Because we have relations, we have friends there. And if we do it once, they will, I uh, mean they will not forgive us throughout their life. I mean it's like the society, they will tell other people that these uh, they are not good. And like, like they say it depends on the. I mean it will hurt our repute as well. So we work very honestly with them.

Speaker B: Okay, yeah, uh, um, that makes sense. That really does make sense. Um, do you have any, um, do you have any um, tips for the people who are just getting into business, who are just starting their business? Do you have anything to say to them?

Speaker D: Yeah, first of all, they should be having a lot of patience.

Speaker C: Okay?

Speaker D: It's not like this, that from the day one their business will boom. And uh, uh, secondly, before starting a business you must do your homework completely from where to get the, I mean you, you should spend a lot of time in your homework until the time you are full. Not fully confident of starting the business. You, you should not invest in the business first, get confident, do your complete homework and then uh, in my opinion, if you are honest, uh, and uh, if you keep your commitments and you uh, give good value for the money. So uh, I mean you, maybe in the beginning you don't earn much money, but rest assured that the good repute will, will spread all over and people will be following you to give, to give you their business.

Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So like you'll, you'll eventually be successful in the future if you work hard, if you're honest and you do your research and have patience.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And what about you Shamyla? What do you have to say to the people who are just starting their business, who have just been in this line? What do you have to say to them? Do you have any suggestions?

Speaker C: I think one should be very confident and one should be very, you know, patient on what Jimmy told, uh, is the main thing. One should be very patient. You can't get, you know, everything over the night. Uh, it takes time and you know, uh, when I started it, it's been now 20, 21 years. And you know, gradually it goes up. It, it never happened that overnight you get everything and you have to work hard a lot for that thing. Especially when you have to make the connection from scratch, from zero. So you know, it takes a lot of time, a lot of hard work. And one uh, thing, you have to be honest with the things. When you're honest with the, with your business and when you're doing. And, and the main thing, what I wanted to tell Whenever you choose for your business, you know, you have, you, you should have interest on that thing.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Never go for that thing, which you know, sometimes people would do. They don't have the interest on the thing and they go for that business. Never do that. Because when you have, ah, when you like something and when you wanted to do something, then you have, you know, have an interest on that. When you get up, um, um, in the morning, then you would love to do that work because you are doing, you know, patiently, you're doing it like. But you uh, know, you, you love doing that work. That business, that is not your, you know, somebody is not imposing on, uh, so I think this is the main thing, this is the core thing. Then whenever you have to start your business, do whatever you want to do with your heart. Don't, don't do that thing which somebody else is, you know, imposing. You, your parents are saying, do that, do this. You know, for me, when my children want to do something, I always encourage them, never do that thing. Even in the studies, when they have to choose for the university, I never tell them to do this or that. I always like, do whatever you want to do from your heart. Mhm. Because then you will excel. Otherwise you can't. Yeah, I think this is the main thing.

Speaker B: If you like something, you are interested in something, only then you can invest your time in it.

Speaker C: Then you can give your best to that thing. Otherwise, you know, for the whole life, you, you can't excel. You can't do better on that thing. And that is, you know, you're doing for somebody else, you're not for yourself. Somebody else is, you know, pushing for that. And uh, that is not your choice. So never do that thing.

Speaker B: That was something very valuable.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Um, I will just add one more thing in this. Uh, always, uh, look for the things which is required by the market.

Speaker B: Okay?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: If, if there's something, uh, if there's some requirement in the market of something, then just pick up that thing. If you make something and that is not required in the market, then your job is multiplied by 10 times, because then you have to convince the people to buy that. If there's something which is required by the people and that is a requirement of the market, your job is much easier.

Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So, like, do your research. Don't come up with a product that is useless and no one wants it. That is such a valuable advice.

Speaker D: Exactly. Then you have to convince the people to buy your product.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Which is a difficult job.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Awesome. Uh, thank you guys for being on the Beyond Ethical podcast. We, uh, really value your guys insight and your story of your businesses.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was wonderful having you guys coming from a completely different part of the world, which has a different culture and different, uh, stereotypes, and you guys breaking those stereotypes, um, running your own successful businesses. Um, it was wonderful having you guys over here. And, uh, thank you so much. I understand that English wasn't your first language, but I think you did great. And, uh, thank you so much for, uh, interviewing for this podcast.

Speaker D: Thank you for inviting us.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Speaker D: Thank you. Bye.