Fred Forsley, Shipyard Brewing Co. - Crafting a Legacy

Welcome to season three of Bed and Butter, the podcast where passion meets profession in the world of hospitality. In partnership with Southern Maine Community College, we're back with fresh energy and even bigger conversations. This season, we're talking with culinary innovators, a brewery entrepreneur, hotel and industry leaders, a TED Talk speaker and influencer with a purpose-driven message, as well as one of the top tourism execs in the country, all sharing insights that will inspire and elevate your journey.

So whether you're just starting out or aiming for the top, Bed and Butter is your go-to guide. Let's dive in. Today's guest is a true Maine original, Fred Forsley, a brewer, entrepreneur, and hospitality legend whose story is bold as his beer. From selling real estate in Kennebunk to founding Shipyard Brewing Company, Maine's largest craft beer.

And brewery. Fred's journey has been fueled by grit, vision, and a love of bringing people together. He's built restaurants, rescued brands, and poured his heart into every pint. Let's raise a glass to the man behind Pumpkinhead, Sea Dog, and much, much more.

Morning, Fred. Well, I guess I should say cheers for people in your industry. Cheers. Yeah.

Well, it really is kind of cool to have you as part of it. I've watched you for many years and you're way out there in social media. People know you. You're part of the community.

You do a lot for the community. So it's a real honor to have you as part of our podcast. Thank you. Thank you for all you're doing for the community and the school and the next generation of hospitality workers, et cetera.

Yeah. You know, it's a lot of us, a lot of our students, it's not just students. Ironically, there's a lot of people from Hilton, Marriott, National Restaurant Association that follow this. And I think the problem is because there's a lot of neat stories out there.

We're not all the same. We're all kind of get into this business a different way. So maybe that leads it into how did you, you know, dig into the life of you and hospitality. I heard one story about you started when you were like a kid at your house.

Yeah. My dad was a World War II Navy Prisoner War in the South Pacific, and he was a medic. When he got out, he opened a home for veterans and a 31-bed facility in Gray, Maine. And my mom and him ran that.

And my mother, you know, with five kids, everybody had to take a role, right? So she had me going to buy back in the old days. And some people won't remember this. Commercial Street had like Car Brothers produce and all that.

So in high school, as soon as I got my license, I'm the guy that's picking up food and overseeing, you know, things and interfacing. because with a home, three meals a day, 365 days a year, and you don't get a day off. Even in restaurants, at least you can set your time and schedule. That really wasn't my passion at that age.

I wanted to get into business and real estate right out of University of New Hampshire. I did an internship in real estate. It was a guy called Mark Stimson back then. When I was in college in 83.

Well, I was 81. I did an internship and he and Dick Schweppe spent. About 15 minutes to a half an hour a day with me. And that gave me a fundamental, because I learned early on, I stayed back in second grade that I had a learning disability with dyslexia and whatnot.

And I was, was an active, you know, today they probably have all kinds of classifications for it. But so long story short, I got into real estate, got my real estate license and interface with a lot of restaurateurs and putting people in And actually, the Great Lost Bear was a property I had to manage to go way back. And so I had a property in Kennebunkport, was in Pensacola, Florida. It was a vacant because of the industry and the real estate game back in 88, 89, it kind of collapsed.

And I was looking for something to turn that real estate around as a real estate guy. And I had a partner, Gordon Herchbys, who had gotten tangled up in it with the banks. And you may remember that time where banks got real tight. So my background was more in real estate, but then I realized that this micro craft brewing industry was just coming alive.

I went to an opening at McGuire's Irish Pub and Brewery. And I said, geez, this would work in Maine at the Kennebunk's place. And at the time, Gritty Mixed Stuffs were just getting going. I met Richard Pfeffer and Eddie Stebbins, and then they introduced me to Alan Pugsley.

And I had a tenant in the building that I said, well, I convinced them this would be a good idea for them to run the brewpub. And I raised the money. So long story short, I was a guy that could put things together in real estate and I was more business orientated, but I would say I got fortunate in that the people as tenants ended up splitting up and decided they didn't want to do the restaurant. And that was three days before we were supposed to open.

So next thing you know, back in that time, 1991, 92, we had a pager on your side, no cell phones, nothing like that. So when I'm doing real estate and still running, interfacing on my parents, both my mom and dad had gotten, my dad passed away and my mom kind of stepped back. So long story short, I was in the throes of running this real estate deal and there was nobody to do the restaurant. And I worked with the other tenant.

He provided food in the early years. And that's how I started in the hospitality business was the brewery. And it's still there today, 33, well, it was 1992, June 15th, 1992, when we first cheers the first chipyard export ale and still brewing it today. So I got really fortunate to partner with Alan Pugsley, who was a world-class brewer.

And the one thing I think I learned as a young guy was really try to get involved and associate with people that one were good people and you could trust, but two, had a real passion and ability. Somebody can have passion, but they don't necessarily know what they're doing. So when I met Alan Pugsley, nobody had ever partnered with him, right? And he had put breweries all over the world.

He went to Manchester University. He was actually up in Canada doing a brewery for a group. He had done it for Gary's. He'd done it for Gritty's.

He did it for Magic Hat. He did it for Long Trail. So he's done all these things. And I said, geez, would you be my partner?

And you run the brewery, and I'll do the marketing and sales. And so next thing you know, on a handshake, we became partners. We formalized it like a year and a half later. Was that at Federal Jacks or was that at Shipyard?

It was Federal Jacks. And then we did Portland. But what I learned about hospitality and my strength was, was really marketing and making customers feel comfortable and hiring the right people, right? Right.

So and I think I learned that from examples around me of people that I was fortunate enough to to meet, you know, George Denny won't call Han Shoe. He was a mentor of mine. And, you know, ironically, mine, too. No kidding.

He was in the hotel business as well. Yeah. But I served on some committees up here in Freeport with him. He was such a classy gentleman.

Yeah. Well, I grew up with Michael Liberty and Michael's still a friend to this day, had a real passion for real estate. He got me into real estate and we had done in the 80s, all these Chandler's Wharf, Middle Street, everything was going great. And then people forget that Ronald Reagan did the retroactive tax law change that blew real estate up and that made everybody, put everybody in a tough spot.

So that ripple effect was felt. And I think for young people, when you're in business, I think the biggest lesson about the thing that happened, if you, maybe you don't study it, maybe it's not studied why something happens just that it happened, right? The real estate collapse of the eighties really happened because the banks went bust, and then they put pressure on the borrowers. So at a high level, I was forced to really put my financial world got in chaos because the banks got in trouble.

But I think the biggest lesson I learned from that is don't quit, right? Like a lot of guys, they gave up or they didn't have the persistence to hang in there. And in real estate, there's a line location, location, location. And if you have something good and you can believe in it, if you work through it, you work hard, there's always a way to do it.

And you may not have money, but people you know might have money and if you have a plan, they will lend you the money. So if you're in hospitality, first and foremost, get an education in what you're passionate about. If you wanna be a chef or a cook, it's not just about cooking, it's about learning purchasing. It's about understanding seasonality.

It's about understanding quality and what you're going for. And don't be afraid to find people that are in, you know, when you go to work for Marriott, for example, you're going to get training, right? You're going to get mentors. You're going to get, or if you go to work for a guy who just might be his own little business and he runs everything and you say to him, listen, I want, you know, I might start as a dishwasher.

But I want to be a chef or I want to be, and we actually have a guy at Federal Jacks that started when he was like 16, 17 years old as a dishwasher. And today he's the head of our whole culinary chef's side. He'll hire chefs. He coordinates the interfaces with the purveyors.

He gets deals. And now he's married with two kids. He met his wife through people within the industry. And it really shows that he didn't go to college, which I'm not saying don't go to college, But, you know, he really learned from, you know, we got Jim Bunting overseas, a bunch of our C-Dog restaurants and Federal Jacks.

And he, these different people mentored him. We have a chef at Federal Jacks, been there almost 30, probably about 28 years. And now he's the head chef and together they grew, you know. So I think, you know, that's an interesting point.

Yeah, it's like sports, right? If you have somebody that can give you the time and energy to spend and bring you along, or you can watch and learn from, you're going to be in a great spot. And I think that's the biggest thing I see today that worries me sometimes. Well, it's probably always been there.

People that quit and this feeling of, I got to be happy every day doing what I'm doing. I, you know, I've been fortunate, but I definitely haven't been happy every day to what I'm doing. You know, you have some days where it's like, oh my God, why am I in this? Especially the beer business is very competitive.

When I, when I started, there might've been 30 breweries in the country that were my size. And now there's probably, well, I know there's at least 7,000 licenses and, you know, it's just, you know, there's been a number of people that have failed. And a lot of it is about, you know, trusting the people you're involved with. And a lot of times just having that right job that's going to give you the opportunities to do what you want to do.

Like I have a lot of people that are, that work for me and they just want to be a bartender. They don't want to be a manager because they really enjoy that. When they managed, it was either, you know, responsibility that was too much and they didn't like it. Or, I mean, sometimes you get the right bar shifts or the right weight staff shifts.

You can make, you know, you can make more than you do as a manager. So I think our industry, the amount of energy put in, you can get back. And the other interesting thing is you can literally do it anywhere in the world, right? If you're fortunate enough and you pick an area, even with AI and all these other things, there's still going to be a niche and a need for engagement and hospitality.

And you and I have seen over our career, every time we thought technology was going to take away the need for people, we're going to take away the need for people. Changed it right so today we're still a better opportunity yeah to engage more yeah you know if it takes some of the mundane stuff out of the world you know you could go back to what you were saying about the the the bank crisis my career was scary at that time yeah that i worked for in freeport maine had a lot loans called you know it was just that time he paid he'd always pay them but he just bank was in trouble he ended up going in trouble the end of the story is i worked for a bank for a couple years that owned it and then my current partners and the ones that have built that company to what it is today with 26 hotels and 800 associates where that that opportunity came out of that crisis and it's right and you you talked about growing having mentors and growing with people and the opportunity so you get all those negative things that happen in your life and yeah i could have quit and said the heck with this i mean i go back to way back i was a high school teacher and i dealt with kids with learning disabilities so so we had a lot in common here And Federal Jacks is probably 200 yards from where I first jumped into the hospitality business, where I was making sandwiches at what's now called Provisions.

Yeah. Back 50 years ago, 55 years ago, it was called Riley's Friendly Store. My father had that. So we've got a lot in common.

But I think, you know, the negative things that happened to us kind of created the opportunities for me. And it sounds like for you, too. You know, yeah. And that's the message I would say that is don't quit on yourself.

If you really believe this is something you want to do, if you see yourself, they're also in hospitality. There are a lot of industries that are often right. Like yesterday, a girl was selling toast POS systems, but she used to be in the restaurant business. So she evolved from that.

And it really is a, for the most part, an industry that doesn't matter if you're male, female, other orientations you have or whatever other aspect. If you go at it with a positive attitude and you respect others and you work hard, there's a lot of successes. We have just about every race. We have people from Jamaica.

We have people from Africa. We have people from all walks of life, too. And at the end of the day, our hope is, you know, if everybody works hard, the customer walks out of there happy. And it doesn't always happen, right?

You know, I like to say, if you can get it right 70% of the time, you're better than 80% of the people because it's such a difficult thing. You can have the same haddock, a sandwich made the same way. And some will go, geez, I love that haddock sandwich. And the other person, well, I don't like it that way.

I don't like the size of your bun. I don't like this. I don't like that. And I just sit back and go, okay.

And it isn't always about what you like, right? I like the old French fries that are plain with the ruffles, but people now like some of these enhanced French fries that are coated. And we did a little test and it came out. The customers wanted the other French fries.

And it was, you know, I think I've been involved in locations that have succeeded, you know, like Federal Jacks and some of the Sea Dogs, like Topsoom is a great property and Bangor. Yeah. And you really, well, we've had some that have failed, you know, in Orlando, we had a C-Dog that I lost a great deal of money in. I had to get to a point where I said, I can't compete against Disney.

And sometimes you really have to examine who your competition is. Is it one, is it worth it? And two, can you win or even pay your bills? And, and even, is that the best opportunity for you to work at a place that gives you, I mean, both you and I have met a lot of people in the industry that a lot of them started in low spots, but ended up, you know, we have friends, you know, like Mark Beaupre, who started working for Alfred Oberlechner, who actually worked for me at a little place in Waterville, Maine.

and you get him a job at the Marriott. And the next thing you know, 30 years later, he's running a $90 million food and beverage at the Marriott World Center. And then he gets a whole other career out of it, you know, hiring and coordinating cleaning companies for the country, you know? And one thing I would say is the people you meet along the way are instrumental in.

You know, maybe somebody that doesn't even, they're unconsequential, but they all of a sudden know somebody else that they say, geez, you know, you might want to hire this guy because he's got their, or a girl because he, you know, worked hard and had the right ability to learn, et cetera, et cetera. And you just, you never, you never know where it's going to take you, you know? And I think that's one of the things that I feel that, you know, I'm not really that smart, but, but what I do is I have a lot of friends who have, are smart.

Yeah. No, I bet one of my partners, he always, he's a C student, but he always hires A students. Right. And I think, you know, you can really grow through your networking.

And, you know, I, I was, when I talk with students at any of the schools, why wouldn't you just write to a CEO or a Fred Forsley or a Sean Riley and say, Hey, I'm so-and-so. If a kid called you or sent you an email and say, Hey, can I talk to you for five minutes about X? I'd drop what I was doing. And I talked.

Right. People just don't feel that that's the case, but when people rise to a certain level of success, they want to give back. I look back at what you've done in the community. Obviously, the social media campaigns that you have are great, but you're at events.

You're doing things with people. You're doing things with races. You're not only giving financially, but you're giving of your time. Can you just touch base?

We're getting a lot done here. Federal Jacks was a start. Then you get Shipyard. Then what came next?

Seadog was next? Well, we did Federal Jacks and Shipyard in Portland. And then we had brands that we spread it out on with Captain Eli Soda. And now we have a new project, Ice Pick Vodka.

And then we're getting into other brands, some non-elf brands. We're doing a mushroom energy drink. And I was fortunate enough and got quite an education. I actually partnered with Miller Brewing Company in the 90s.

And then I was fortunate enough to buy it back. During that time, I was able to, you know, meet a lot of, like you said, build networks, meet a lot of people. As far as restaurants, we really grew the C-Dog brand after. And what happened with that was, again, it was who you meet along the way.

Peter Camplin had sold C-Dog to a group and they had filed bankruptcy and he called me and wanted me to buy it out of bankruptcy. And it was a unique situation in which he agreed to finance the whole thing. And oddly enough, the people that were in trouble agreed to pay him off in full and he wouldn't take the money because he did not like the other side. So that's how we got SeaDog.

So that was a big, big one. And I get really involved in trademarking. So we have Shipyard trademarked globally. SeaDog trademarked globally, and we're selling a lot of product beer in the UK.

And we have very strong relationships over there. And with Sea Dog, my goal is to kind of keep growing it. Like right now, we've got an opportunity on UMass campus, UMass Lowell, to put a Sea Dog in a location that was right next to a brewery. And oddly enough, my dad grew up in Lowell.

So I still have relatives and a lot of relationships and we're real time right now working on that. So we're trying to see, I've done chowder projects. We did India Street Pasta, which did not succeed. A good friend of mine, Danny Gore, we went to high school together and he became a chef right out of school.

He actually worked at Mercy Hospital and he ended up going to France and studying, came back at his own restaurant and then we're working for different things. And he, ultimately, we weren't doing well. It wasn't really scalable the way we were set up. It's just fresh pasta is very difficult.

So I had to say, well, that's not going to work. And I had a relationship with the Amato Sandwich Group. And Danny got a job there and he's been there ever since. So we have a relationship selling and working together on things.

And he's another guy you should interview is Danny Gore, who's at Amato's. And he was a real example of a guy that carved out. I mean, he didn't go to college. He just, he didn't go to formal.

He may have been a formal school in France. and you know it's unique right my i have a daughter that became a cpa she went to providence college and she went to bentley and she was working as a cpa making a lot of money she basically didn't like it she hated it you know she hated it hated it but she didn't like it and she came home and said i want to go to culinary school and my wife judy's a cpa and she goes like what do you mean You never even enjoyed working at the restaurant.

No, I've applied. I get into the Colony Institute of America in Helena in California, and I'm going to go. And we're sitting there going, because you're going to quit a job making six figures to go become a chef and see where that goes, right? So she did it and got hit with the fires.

She did a few internships with other chefs and making no money. And then in the middle of it, COVID hits and she's out of, out of school, graduates, sitting at home, finishing from online. And we're like, okay, this is great. Now what are you going to do?

And my wife said, you better go back and see if you get the, get back into the CPA. And she got a job being a private chef. And she basically was making the same amount of money being a private chef for a wealthy family. And great people.

And they brought her to Connecticut and, you know, she now has her own brand called Upbeat Ginger and she does private chefing. She'll go into homes and do dining and all that. And so it's, again, following her passion and she's doing, but you just, you never know. I never would have guessed that would have happened and she would have been the one.

Well, she probably manages the finances better than many because she had the CPA. I was a former teacher and no understanding of hotel business. And, you know, I'm sure my parents say, oh my God, he's leaving teaching now, he's going to do this, but it turned out okay. So Fred, we got just a few minutes left, but can you just tell me, you got an ear of people that are frontline associates, people that are in school, maybe some people who are new managers, and even people in the executive roles of Hilton Merritt.

What would you say to the listeners about what lessons you've learned? Give me one or two lessons that you've learned that might help them in their careers. Even if they're an executive now, they could still go to the next level. I think it's about interfacing and keeping the passion, keeping the interest level, making an effort to find and do a lot of times restaurants and what you do can be mundane because even when it's working.

Why mess around with it, right? I think somehow keeping, sometimes working in these kitchens, it's hot. We try to provide benefits. We try to provide, we do provide benefits, but everybody has to pitch in today with healthcare and everything else.

So I think communication is key and we can all do a better job communicating. And I think if you're in a leadership role, communicating is especially especially key for what's happening now and where you're going. That's been my biggest challenge, biggest thing I've have to continually work on. And it's amazing to me how many times you have to say something, how many times you have to explain how many times, because people are in their old world, right?

So I think if you're in a position, whether you're a dishwasher or whether you're running a kitchen or whether you're, you know, want to run a kitchen or you want to get into this, find somebody that you enjoy and you can get mentor from at that level. And they may be a little bit ahead of you and really take pride in what you're doing, no matter what it is. I have got a guy who works for me, Chris Oliviero. He mows the lawn and does every odd job or whatever.

And he is so passionate and so positive. It makes his life better, right? It's like I said, I mean, he's happier doing what he's doing. He's painting a deck for me right now on Forrest Avenue and the Poor Boy and Pickles building.

And literally, I talked to him because I get energy out of his energy, right? So, I mean, we're all human beings. And if you don't get excited about something, somebody else isn't going to be excited about it. And that doesn't mean the boss.

You can be a host. When somebody walks in a restaurant, they want to be greeted by somebody who's got a smile. Somebody looks them in the eye and says, welcome to Federal Jacks or Welcome to Sea Dog or welcome to the chip yard tasting room. And if it's not, then it, you know, it's still just a job.

It needs to be more than just a job. And I don't care if you're sweeping the street out front of a restaurant or if you're at the hotel and you're making sure people, the little things matter, you know. So my mother used to say, it's like, and she stole it, I think it was a military alliance, is for lack of a bolt, the tire was lost, loss of the tire, the Jeep was lost. The loss of the Jeep, the battle was lost.

The loss of that battle, the war was lost. So, you know, every little detail matters. That doesn't mean get knocked up. Just do your best to make sure the wheels are on the truck and, you know, away you go.

You know, like George used to say, plan your work, work the plan. You know what I mean? It'll get you there. So it's like you experienced, you know, there was a guy didn't go to, I barely finished high school and never went to college.

And he's on Madison Avenue with one of the biggest shoe brands that people would, you know, wasn't gross wise or biggest, but one of the best shoes in the world. Right. Because he knew, he knew what he was doing with weather. He was going to say to me, Freddie, you got to know your product, know what you're doing.

So it's good. Well, you know, I got to, I got to thank your mother for that. Sorry. Unfortunately, this will be transcribed in the podcast.

So I'm going to take that out of that transcription and reuse that one. I love that about the bolt. You definitely can. Yeah.

So Fred, you've got Sea Dog, you've got Shipyard. Not all our listeners are going to go there right away, but Shipyard, I mean, I love going to Sea Dog. I've been to half a dozen, at least a half a dozen of your shipyards. Food is consistent, always great.

And if listeners want to give that a try, that's fine. And when you're old enough, you can try Shipyard. But Pumpkinhead can't be there. So there's a lot of great stories.

And if Fred has some podcasts out there and he has some things, so just check them out. Yeah, on YouTube, just go to Fred Forslund. Yep. So if you want more, Fred, you can do that.

I wish I had more time to do that, but we do have a time limit. So Fred, thank you so much. You're a good friend. Thank you.

I really appreciate it. And thank you for what you're doing with this, leaving a path for other people to have some of the successes you've had and challenges and opportunities. Well, let's go out both and impact some more lives. Thank you so much, Fred.

Cheers. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Bed and Butter, the hospitality podcast produced in partnership with Southern Maine Community College. Subscribe to the podcast to ensure that you don't miss any episodes. And while you're at it, share it with someone who might benefit from these insights.