Balanced Ambition · 2026-01-21 · 55 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
17 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Chris shares his journey through a throat cancer diagnosis that threatened the voice-dependent work at the core of his creative identity as a singer-songwriter, actor, and live events performer. Facing a minimum six-month treatment period and two-year recovery timeline, he grappled with immediate practical concerns - securing income while self-employed, managing childcare logistics, preserving his unreleased music, and navigating the pressure from long-term clients who needed continuity. The conversation surfaces a deeper realization: before cancer struck, Chris had already started consciously saying no to work, which paradoxically left him feeling better and more alive. Rather than chasing a return to his pre-diagnosis equilibrium, he's deliberately recalibrating to prioritize time with family and friends, selective high-impact creative work, and personal fulfillment over filling his calendar. The discussion touches on age-related casting changes in acting, the opportunity cost of saying yes to every job, and how self-imposed pressure during crisis (like his initial panic to record everything) ultimately undermines creative quality. For self-employed creatives and founders balancing survival income with meaningful work, the episode offers concrete insights on sustainable career design and the counterintuitive benefits of strategic scarcity.
Chris was diagnosed with throat cancer contained to his tonsil after a dentist noticed an unusual-looking tonsil during an emergency tooth extraction. He'd been feeling unwell for about six months and noticed his voice sounding off during a gig, but the dentist's observation prompted the referral that led to diagnosis.
His first instinct was to record all his unreleased music and songs before treatment, fearing that if his voice was damaged or he died, his creative work would be lost to the world. However, he realized this self-imposed pressure to create his best work under extreme stress was counterproductive and learned to relax into recovery instead.
He was told treatment would take about six weeks, with recovery lasting a few months afterward, but doctors indicated a minimum two-year full recovery period. He anticipated at least six months away from work initially, creating significant financial and client-retention concerns as a self-employed person.
Beyond medical costs, he had to navigate confusing government income support as a self-employed person, manage complicated nursery and childcare fee adjustments, ensure his self-employed partner Claire had stability, and reassure long-term clients (particularly those at English Heritage) that he would return - knowing that filling his role during absence risked losing future work.
Before diagnosis, he unconsciously began saying no to work and felt better as a result; cancer forced him to continue this recalibration intentionally, rejecting the pressure to return to his previous overcommitted state. He now prioritizes work that he actually wants to do, time with family and friends, and personal creative fulfillment over simply filling his calendar to earn more.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode is almost entirely personal storytelling about a cancer diagnosis and creative identity crisis, with virtually no actionable or novel insight for a B2B operator. The few conceptual observations - say no more to create space for better opportunities, keep yourself in the equation - are stated briefly and never developed with any rigour or framework.
Opportunity cost is massive.
I want to work less and earn more, get to work in nicer, hotter, sunnier climates. You know, I want it all. Yeah. Um, and that's massively unrealistic.
Every theme in the episode - cancer as a wake-up call, the cost of saying yes to everything, positive reframing of hardship, not chasing a big break - is a well-worn personal development trope. There is no contrarian position, no first-principles reasoning, and no framework that challenges conventional wisdom.
every time you say yes, you are saying no to something else
there's so much pressure when you have something major that interrupts your life to get back to where you were. Uh, I don't want to get back to where I was.
The guest is a freelance creative - actor, singer-songwriter, aspiring event MC - with no B2B relevance, no leadership role, no scale, and no track record that a B2B operator would find credible or instructive. He is also a personal school friend of the host, which further narrows the conversation to sympathetic chat rather than substantive expertise.
I never wanted to be famous. Loads of my friends never wanted to be famous. We just want to do good creative stuff
I'm doing a kind of big relaunch, if you like, into that specifically
There are a handful of concrete personal details - medical timelines, a named client (Philips conference in Amsterdam), named employer (English Heritage/Battle Abbey), weight loss and heart rate figures - but these are all personal medical or career specifics with no business metrics, revenue data, or transferable evidence for a B2B audience.
out of nowhere, my thyroid went crazy and I dropped about three stone in three weeks
I had a resting heart rate of 122 a week after I'd been bedbound
The host is a supportive friend conducting a sympathetic check-in rather than a sharp interviewer; questions are consistently leading, empathetic, and unchallenging, with no pushback on any claim. Follow-ups largely consist of agreement sounds and restatements of what the guest just said.
I mean, that must come as quite a shock to me through that how you sort of discovered that
Do you think there's a bit to be said for that sort of gratitude?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
What happens when your voice, your career, your identity, is suddenly under threat? In this episode, Chris shares how a throat cancer diagnosis forced a creative reckoning and a complete professional reinvention. From navigating fatigue and financial fear to reframing ambition and rediscovering joy, this is a deeply honest conversation about creativity, resilience, and learning how to keep yourself in the equation. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 - “I don’t want to go back to where I was” 01:55 - From amateur songwriter to live performer 03:00 - The subtle signs that something was wrong 04:50 - The panic to preserve his voice and songs 08:00 - Self-imposed creative pressure vs.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: There's so much pressure when you have something major that interrupts your life to get back to where you were. I don't want to get back to where I was. I want it to be better than where it was, which is an impossible ask, but of course I do because I want more time with my family, more time with my friends, more time for me. I want to work less and earn more, get to work in nicer, hotter, sunnier climates. You know, I want it all. Yeah. Um, and that's massively unrealistic. It was niggling away in the back of my mind and a few other little things and I was like, okay, yeah, I need to get that checked out. So I did and I went the next day. That got straight away, referred. I had to wait about three weeks. And on that appointment he was, you know, the consultant was pretty clear that it was probably cancer. Uh, I'd made a conscious choice to try and frame it as positively as I could. The hardest part actually came, as I say, this time last year, January, where, uh, the worst part of my recovery was try to be positive about stuff, but in a goal oriented way. You're still not in that equation. I'm going to be really positive because I've done this work today and I've earned this money and that gets me here in my career. Uh, what about you? Did you enjoy yourself? Did you meet nice people?
Speaker B: Hi Chris, thanks for joining me today. I mean, obviously we go way back and I know a little bit about your, I suppose your work, your career and, and how that process has, has changed. You know, I mean, I think it's fair to say you're a creative person and you know, originally your background was more vocal, the singing side, singer, songwriter, uh, and things like that. And you've, you've done acting and live stuff. But obviously during that process, most people, their jobs change what they do. Um, but yours has changed and it's also, you've been forced to change it.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's been a kind of interesting process actually. So like you say, I kind of started off as a singer songwriter. I mean completely amateur. But that was my kind of love of the creative arts came through. Just here's the thing, I just really enjoy and let's do it because I enjoy it. And actually isn't that its own reward? And then as you start developing things you go, ah, uh, well, if I can do that and enjoy that, maybe I would like it on stage or maybe I have ideas that would work in a different format. So try writing or try producing and bringing other people together and doing that sort of stuff. Um, but it has evolved over the years, like you say, and, you know, while there's been kind of acting and a lot of on camera work and a lot of live events work, the big curveball has been. Well, I always use my voice. All of that is dependent on my voice. Pretty much.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I have been forced to change because a couple of years ago I was diagnosed with throat cancer. So it's a big shock to be a, uh, creative. Unable to be creative.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And unable to rely on my voice in the same way. And what does the future hold for that? You know, it's been a lot of big questions with that. Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, that must come as quite a shock to me through that how you sort of discovered that. Because I think when we've had conversations, you were feeling a bit unwell, but wasn't quite sure. Just thought you had a bit of a sore throat.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. I kind of spent about six months feeling pretty off, as if I've. As if I've just been ill rather than I am ill. You know, like, towel. What is it? Am I taking on too much? And that kind of gone on quite a long time. And I made some big changes out of that kind of process. You know, I was very busy over Christmas. This is what, 2003 and into 2004. Um, sorry, that's not right. 2023 into 2024. So I'm going way back. Shows why I don't work in maths, you know, um, I'd made some big changes. I started saying no to a lot of work. Freeing up a lot of time and going to the gym and things like that. Focusing on me a little bit.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: What I wanted. Um, and actually I really started feeling good. That's the weird thing. By doing those sort of big changes, I was like, I feel on top of things, you know, the sun's coming out, it's summer again, and I'm kind of feeling really good. But there were some big questions. And I remember doing a gig and I don't do them that often as a. As a musician. So I'm. I'm doing my own stuff and I'm singing and I know how I can sing my own songs.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: No one else does, so it's fine if I'm getting it wrong, they don't know. But there was definitely a moment where I was like, oh, why isn't that working in quite the right way? What's going on? And I Remember saying to my boss on that day, who just happened to be there, going, uh, that sounds. Or it feels weird. And she's, oh, it's fine. It sounds fine.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And it was. There it was niggling away in the back of my mind and a few other little things. Um, but actually I had a tooth out. I had, you know, a cracked tooth. It was an emergency dentist.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And it was the surgeon who, you know, when I open my mouth, says, oh, have you got a. Got a sore throat? So. Oh, no, that's just my weird tonsil. It always looks like that. Uh, Yeah, I guess. Yeah. It shouldn't look like that. Okay. Yeah, I need to get that checked out. So I did, and I went the next day. That got straight away, referred. I had to wait about three weeks. And on that appointment, he was, you know, the consultant was pretty clear that it was probably cancer, but he couldn't say for sure because I hadn't done the, uh, the biopsies and the test. So there was another three weeks before it was kind of fully confirmed. But basically, at the end of summer, 2024, um, kind of knew, uh, I got cancer. I'm going to have to go in on chemo radio. It's my throat. And because of the nature of it. So it was contained to a tonsil. Yeah, right, tonsil. Um, but because of the nature of it, they can't operate. They've got to shrink it. And it can affect a lot of other things, the use of muscles and just my jaw itself and. Yeah, so there's a lot that could have happened.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But actually I was very lucky, uh, because I responded really well. And mostly things have come back, but it's. It's a long road still. Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, during that moment when you're talking to the consultant, I mean, there must have been a lot going through your head, because first of all, just getting told, you know, it's cancer or potentially cancer, that's a big shock for anyone.
Speaker A: It is.
Speaker B: Regardless of what they do. And then like you said there, your work, nearly all of it involves your voice.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And they've said it's in your throat.
Speaker A: Yes. My first thought was, I need to record everything I haven't recorded, because if that's the part of me that's under threat and it might never come back. I don't care about work, my songs, my music is lost to the world. And I know that sounds impossibly arrogant, but that's what goes through your head. Like, you know, if I die tomorrow, that's gone. All that effort, all that work is just vanished. And that was the panic I had actually. Um, I couldn't think too far in the future because I didn't know if a, the treatment would work, uh, how long all these things would take. I mean in the event it took six weeks and you know, kind of a good few months recovery after that and I'm still recovering to be honest. But it might have been that, well, that didn't work. We've got to go straight back in. And this could be years and years of treatment with you know, much worsening effects and things like that. So the short term panic was I need to record, I need, I've got to get as much down as I can just to preserve it. I don't know, for me, for the world, whatever.
Speaker B: Yeah. But that was you for a lot of. Because a lot of effort goes into creating your own creative stuff.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, often more than if you're being paid for a bit of work.
Speaker A: You know, you think about labor over this stuff.
Speaker B: Yeah. Labor, love. And you know, you really go for it. And the thought that actually all of that could, could have gone to waste.
Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, the problem was I, I don't, I'm not particularly technically minded so I don't really know how to record things and that's my own barrier. I've got all the gear, all the equipment. Exactly. Really. But there was this, this sort of moment. So I need to learn it and get it down just enough to a basic level that I can build it up and do stuff with it later. But as long as I've preserved this fragile moment because you know, I've got three weeks. The problem with this though is trying to do your best creative work and expressive work when you're under huge pressure imposed by myself, but feeling very much that pressure with this big heavy cancer diagnosis hanging over me and the thought that in a few weeks time I've got to undertake all this treatment, I've got to get my affairs in order and uh, I don't mean, you know, writing a will and things like that. There's a lot of admin that goes into not working for you know, an indeterminate amount of time.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know, needed to get some kind of government help for uh, my income but I'm self employed. That's confusing and there are things to do with, you know, nursery top up fees and things like that which are unbelievably complicated. If you're self employed and you don't know how long you're not going to be working for things like that. It just swallowed time. And I'm like, no, I need to sing, I need to do this. And then, you know, a neighbor gets the mower out and you can't record that afternoon because they're mowing their lawn and it's too noisy.
Speaker B: I've only got three weeks.
Speaker A: Yeah. Don't you realize, guys? But it, it's a self imposed kind of panic and I actually, I started to relax into it and going, you know what? I think it's more important that I don't run myself ragged, that I get a little bit rested, that I enjoy life a little bit. I mean my doctors were telling me, put weight on, enjoy it because you're not gonna wanna eat for quite a while. You know, enjoy yourself now. Um, but also keep going to the gym and things like be strong and fit and no, just be prepared. So as much as I was like, I've gotta do everything, no, I also need to calm down and let it be what it is. And that was a real lesson actually.
Speaker B: Yeah. I think there's a lot to be said for that. Quite often we panic and then try and want to do everything.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: In the fear that you're not going to be able to do it. But actually you're just putting extra strain on your body.
Speaker A: Yeah. And uh, like I say, it's not really conducive to your best work. Anyway. I've got 10 minutes to record my best vocal ever.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah. I mean you're already right up there and tight. Yeah. That's not going to come out great, is it?
Speaker B: Nice.
Speaker A: That was the panic, that was the difficulty. So it was a, it was a really strange time because I'm trying to spend time with family and I'm trying to see friends and you know, enjoy life and do all of these things knowing that this pretty rubbish time is going to, you know, is just around the corner. But also use my time like as if it's a job to do my best ever creative work under massive amounts of self imposed pressure. It's ridiculous.
Speaker B: And I mean you said that the financial aspect as well. Because I know that's the boring side of any creative work. But, but actually, you know, everyone needs to eat. You need, need an income and you know, you got a family.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B: And you were going to be without work for like you say. I'm not too sure.
Speaker A: No, I mean I knew it was a minimum of six months.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: That I'd be out. Uh, they were very clear on that. You know, it's a relatively short treatment time, kind of twice that length again for recovery, the full, you know, the early stage recovery to get yourself back up. Um, but you, they've always said to me it's a two year recovery minimum. Am I not going to be able to work for two years? I mean, I've got money behind me because I've saved and I've been very frugal over the years, but two years in this economy, I mean, it's a lot. Yeah, yeah. So there are those worries as well. And I'm very lucky. You know, my partner Claire has a good job and you know, we have been frugal and we've saved, we've got money but, you know, we've got a daughter and she's, she's just started school now. So we're like, how's this going to affect her? Uh, there's just so much in the mix as there is for anyone who goes through some kind of big health scare and. Well, not just a scare, the reality of it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, but as a self employed person, there's this sort of undetermined, um, pressure, if you like, that if you don't do a job for someone, they will find someone to fill that job and then you lose the job.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know what I mean, going forward.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: So quite a lot of that time, that uh, sort of prep time ahead of my treatment was spent talking to my bosses who I've worked with for years, saying, you know, I will be back. Yeah, I want to come back. And they're like, yeah. And everyone's really supportive but they do have that pressure on them that they have a problem and they need someone
Speaker B: to come in and do it.
Speaker A: Yeah, come and do it.
Speaker B: It is business.
Speaker A: That's it. And then the role gets filled and if the other person's good, great. You know, I want someone good to come in and help them out. I don't want anyone to be struggling because of going on with me. But I have a job and I, I want to be able to do that when I am able to do that. But it's difficult stepping back in, you
Speaker B: know, of course, I mean, before we get onto the work and I mean, how's that? Has it changed your outlook on like you, you said you're always sensible with money.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Anyway, um, I mean, have you continued that and
Speaker A: I've, or, or has it
Speaker B: made you go, you know what, life's really short.
Speaker A: Yeah, a bit. Yeah. It hasn't made me go, you know, in that nihilistic kind of way, like nothing matters, you know, it's just not really in my nature to go and spank all my money on, on things that I don't need.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But at the same time, like, life is short and you do have to live. And weirdly, I look back at that period when I had cancer, but it was undiagnosed thinking I felt good for not saying yes to everything. So putting me back in the equation, you know, cancer in the treatment made me have to do that. But I'd kind of consciously done it in a way already and life was better. So I don't want to go. There's so much pressure when you have something major that interrupts your life to get back to where you were. Uh, I don't want to get back to where I was. I want it to be better than where it was, which is an impossible ask. But of course I do, because I want more time with my family, more time with my friends, more time for me. I want to work less and earn more, get to work in nicer, hotter, sunnier climates. You know, I want it all. Yeah. Um, and that's massively unrealistic. But that's what I'm going to work towards. You know, it's a weird one. Rather than just chugging along to set goals and to put me in the equation saying, what do I want out of this professionally and personally and for the people I love, you know, what do we need? Uh, the equation has changed. Definitely.
Speaker B: Yeah. That personal realization as well is really key because I think as someone who, I mean, I'm self employed, you know, so therefore you say yes to every bit of work because like you say you don't want the client to go and find someone else. Also you sort of think, well, yeah, I work for myself, so I should be working, you know, and you get caught up in that. Very easy. And actually when you're almost forced to change or you started to subconsciously change, you started to realize actually the world slightly bigger than just saying yes to every job you get offered.
Speaker A: It's, it's definitely that and it's. But it's also that you look back over, uh, that period of time that you were saying yes to everything. What, what did I do? Like, I know my diary was full.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I know my bank account is kind of looking quite healthy. But there's two kind of problems with that. None of it's for you, so it's, it's always that you're a kind of bit player in your own story. So therefore the story hasn't really cemented. There's nothing to hang a memory off. You might have done some cool jobs in between, you know, in that time, but it's not for you. So five years feels like a year. And yet there's a lot more gray going on. You know, um, the other problem is that if you say yes to everything, then you are. It's just a treadmill. Yeah. It just chugs on, goes on and on and on. Nothing really changes because you don't have any time to devote and invest in yourself. Yeah. But also, you are just tied up doing that. And this has happened for me kind of a few times in a way where I've started saying no a little bit more. Then you're freer, and then good opportunities come along, really good ones that build to something new and then go, uh, are you able to do this? Well, yes, I am, actually, because I didn't say yes to all that other. And I don't just mean lower paid. I mean the stuff that you want to do. Sometimes you do that for the opportunity, even though the money isn't great or it might connect you in the right way. Sometimes you do it just because you think it might be fun.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know? Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Sometimes, you know, there's no money involved at all. Like me coming on here, this. Seeing, um, my old schoolmate talking about this stuff. Because you think I do have a point of view and I would like to talk about it. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and that might help some people as well. Um, it's not just like, uh, it's a working day and I've got to fill it with work. Do you know what I mean? There's a richness that you can build into how you plan your day and your career and your work that doesn't just involve filling your diary and paying your bills.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: It is a much more complicated being
Speaker B: really conscious about the things you say yes to. Because there is actually. You think I say yes to everything, but actually every time you say yes, you are saying no to something else.
Speaker A: Opportunity cost is massive. Yeah.
Speaker B: And you don't always realize that. And whether it's opportunity or purely spending time at home or being able to go to the gym that day or whatever it is. Every yes, actually, there's a no to something else. It's being really specific, really conscious about what am I saying yes to and do I really want to do this?
Speaker A: Totally. And you don't know the answer.
Speaker B: No.
Speaker A: That's what's scary about it. You kind of go into that process going. I'm gonna say no, and I don't quite know why, other than this sort of loose sense of faith in the future. Yeah. And I'm not a particularly mystical or, uh, religious person or anything like that. So to have faith in a very rational universe is quite. It's quite a weird thing.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But if you don't say, you'll be five years just chuggling along as I found myself going, what has it built towards other than, you know, and this is not to, uh, denigrate it at all, other than I paid my bills and I still managed to, you know, start a family and do those things.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But there is more. And you. At some point, you just. I suppose it's not burning down the house, it's kind of recalibrating that equation just a bit to put yourself back in. And. And like I say, I started doing that a bit. Cancer and kind of treatment for that, and the. The long road of recovery absolutely forced me to do it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But as I've come out of that, that equation is recalibrated and I have to find the new things, you know.
Speaker B: Do you think age plays a certain, um, part in this? Because I've very much had it that I, uh. I think I've sort of said yes to everything. Because, I mean, in your 20s, there's. There's obviously millions of years left of your life, you know, and then suddenly you hit your 40s and you're like, actually, time is. Is ticking away and I'm not quite sure what I'm doing. I certainly got it right. You hit my 40s, and I was like, oh, so this is it. Because I was always felt like I was young and I was doing stuff and growing something.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then you get to that stage and you're like, actually, is this it? Is this really what I want to be doing?
Speaker A: I'm too old to start again. Yeah. And if I've got to build on what I've got now, is. Is that the right.
Speaker B: Yeah, well, the foundations. Right.
Speaker A: Yeah. I've absolutely gone through that. And that's not to say that, oh, I've. I've. You know, when I hit 40 and now I'm 45, I'm past it.
Speaker B: No, no, no.
Speaker A: But I mean, it's interesting, actually, because as an actor, you're casting type changes, and there is a bias in that. You know, I kind of hit 40, which was 2020. So when the pandemic hit. So it was quite a, you know, a dividing line. Between one sort of work and others.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: Anyway, um, but I very much went from, you know, kind of leading man and, you know, the. The kind of office nice guy and things like that in all sorts of ranges of jobs.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: To, uh, dad and wanker banker. You need a kind of slick, sleazy guy. I'm your man, apparently. Which is weird because I'm not motivated by money at all other than paying bills, you know.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, but my casting type changed. Now, if that's an external force coming in on you to do with age, it's impossible not to tie this stuff into your age and be very conscious of your age and how you're changing. But the flip side of that is I don't feel any less able to do any of the stuff I could. Particularly. My knees are a bit short, you know, uh, my back's a bit jiffy. Yeah, whatever.
Speaker B: You make little noises when you get off the ground.
Speaker A: Weirdly, yes.
Speaker B: I don't know where they came from.
Speaker A: Ground off a chair. But it's, you know. Are there things that I'm purposefully kind of not going for now because of my age?
Speaker B: Not really.
Speaker A: I mean, I. I feel like experience trumps kind of the youthful good looks or the, you know, whatever.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: A hundred times over. So I feel way more comfortable doing the things I used to do. The only difference, I would say, is when you're younger, you, It's. It's quite random, the opportunities that come your way. So you say yes, just to build something.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So I've. I've always worked quite a lot with English Heritage. Um, and, you know, we grew up in Battle, and I work at Battle Abbey, and I've done their ghost tours for many, many years now. I think 12 years, something like that. That came through completely randomly through a casting to get in on TV job because I looked like Nikola Tesla, you know, and it was, you know, and I ended up getting the role. And then the guy, you know, my boss, Mark Griffin, so big shout out to him. He's a legend. Um, but he called me back in for another job six weeks later. And it was then we got talking about how I've always done a lot of improv and things like that. And then he said, oh, do you know anything about the Battle of Hastings, mate? I grew up in Battle. I know all about it. Right. That's how accidental it is now.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Coincidentally, I listened to history podcasts. I didn't do history at school or college or anything, but I'm into it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But it just Came together. Now, uh, you can say that's cosmic. You could say that kind of is meant to be, but it's way more accidental than any of that. It was. Here's an opportunity. Does it fit? Yes, actually, it does for these reasons. And you guide, and you do have some agency in that to guide the areas where it does fit and away from when it doesn't fit. So you can look at it as being all cosmic and mystical and everything. I really think that as accidental as it all is, in some way, we. We naturally move through the channels that we kind of open up as well.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: If that makes sense. I know it's getting a little bit metaphysical, but.
Speaker B: No, but I do know what you mean. Sometimes, you know, people say, you know, you create your own luck and things like that. And then there is a little bit of that of sometimes you've just got to be in the right place. And I guess that is that balance of what opportunity is to say yes to. Yeah, no, because we've spoke about saying no. But sometimes you do need to, uh. Something's like, I think I'm gonna do this. I'm not quite sure why it's not going to pay all the bills like I originally thought. But it can lead onto something and it helps you find out actually what you do enjoy. Yeah, you know, I mean, I've taken on jobs that, uh, I haven't necessarily thought. Don't know if that's quite my thing. Be like, actually, I really enjoyed that.
Speaker A: And particularly when you're younger, you don't know.
Speaker B: No.
Speaker A: What you're going to enjoy and what you're not. So you do kind of shop around a little bit and see what fits. As you get older, it's actually easy to close yourself off to that kind of new experience. But I. I think it's worth doing. I do think it's worth challenging yourself and kind of going, you know, what. What am I going to get out of this? I might meet some really cool creative people. It might be a passion project. Uh, it might be that it's really good money and I've got to learn to suck it up, you know, and do a job that I'm not that interested in, but find those skills to. To make it work for me personally as well as you put out there. So there's all sorts of kind of. What's the word? All sorts of rewards that you can get out of kind of saying yes as much as saying no. It's a weird one, isn't it?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: There is the Little nuances between what you need to do to survive, but also, you know, survive financially because that's the economy we live in. But equally you want to survive in yourself and feel proud of some of your work and, and happy. Because if you're getting home every day like that was the worst day ever.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: It doesn't matter what money you're getting paid, eventually that is gonna, gonna eat you.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, and, and you just get fed up of it.
Speaker A: And this is the thing as well. If you're self employed, uh, I think, uh, I think this is true of a lot of people. If you go into the arts and you're self employed, you know, you're not relying on the big break. If you are relying on a big break, you're going to be in trouble. But actually it's perfectly credible to not have a big break and work very happily and very successfully in your life. I never wanted to be famous. Loads of my friends never wanted to be famous. We just want to do good creative stuff and we have integrity in the work that we do. But I, I really think that we, we kind of do it to facilitate our own creativity in some way.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So what's frustrating is if you say yes to everything all the time, there's no room for you in it. You don't get any of your stuff done, but you still get all the sacrifices that you make as if you were doing that, you know, as if you were doing your own projects. So you might still not be making great money. You might be working lots of weekends and unsociable hours and missing holidays and weddings and things, thinking it's not even my project that I'm sweating for.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So why am I doing it over and over now? Money's a big part of that question equation. Of course.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But it's not the only part. And that's, that's definitely this switch that's happened with me. The waiting has changed a lot in my.
Speaker B: I think it's something a lot of people struggle, uh, with and it's, it's very easy for us certainly, and into our 40s and uh, like you say, maybe have been able to save a bit of money and got ourselves in a position to say, oh, it's not all about the money. And there's, there's someone watching. Hang on a minute. I'm just trying to pay the rent, you know, so I, I get it completely. But it's maybe just having that at the back of your mind that don't work just for the money.
Speaker A: Well, I, uh, don't think it's sustainable, weirdly, because there's too many sacrifices. If you're just doing it in pursuit of either some magical goal, like a big break.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Or. Or just to get through. If you do. If it's just to get through, just to pay your bills, but you're not actually being a creative person, get a job and then you'll have way more free time to do it. Do your own stuff. Yeah. Don't do this, because this swallows up a lot of time and, you know, you're wearing lots of different hats and it's mentally exhausting. And you kind of think, oh, well, at least I'm exercising my creative skills. It's a busman's holiday. The last thing you want to do when you've been out doing all this stuff or when you've been working on, I don't know, a corporate script or something all day, is then go, right, well, now I've got words in my head. I'm going to write a novel.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You just, you don't. You're not going to do it. It's too much. So there's. It isn't sustainable to think that this is a good way to just kind of plod on, like, you are a product. You're not. You have to be a creative person. You know, if. If you are a creative person, you have to feed that beast for yourself.
Speaker B: And I mean, so talking about that, you know, it's been a couple of years now since that, the cancer diagnosis. You've had treatment, so you still in that recovery phase.
Speaker A: So I finished treatment in the end of November, 2024.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, the, the hardest part of recovery kind of kicks in after that. So actually it was about this time last year, kind of middle of January. That was my really tough time.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, and it's weird what the body does. I mean, out of nowhere, my thyroid went crazy and I dropped about three stone in three weeks.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: Uh, I had a resting heart rate of 122 a week after I'd been bedbound. So I don't know what it was like when I was. Yeah, I mean, it's like I've just run to my absolute limit and, like, what's happening, it was really strange. And they're still investigating it. It's a very long, protracted process. Um, but I got my first all clear in March. Um, and I literally just had another one yesterday so that, you know, these, these continue kind of every six weeks.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I think now it's tripping over to every two or three months.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: Um, and then all in all it's about five years, um, for the checkups. So I'm one year into what they always said was a two year recovery. Now if you'd asked me that question in summer I'd be like, I've beaten it. I feel amazing and everything's brilliant.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: I got a cold in September and because it's this whole area, you know, I'm no longer immunocompromised directly from the chemo or the radio. But this whole area is just a bit sort of weak and pathetic, I suppose. M and my. I just couldn't shake it. But I'd said yes to all these really cool jobs and, you know, projects and just lots of different things when I felt great. And I'm a bit like that in summer anyway. Like I can do other thing in summer.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And the weather starts turning.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, but I was doing an amazing job, um, uh, for Philips. So this medical conference, I was in Amsterdam and so ill with this sinus infection and I had to do the same kind of show against his video background every half an hour. So for seven minutes I was not ill. Yeah, I would come out, absolutely do the show, you know, whatever crowds I've got, big energy. It was very cool in response with the video content as if we're interacting. So I could not drop a breath, cough, uh, stumble over my words. It was very tight. But for 23 minutes I was backstage going, oh, I'm so ill. And I really was very ill. But that you can't stop. No, ordinarily then your body can get over things but because I just didn't have the chance to stop and it's just the nature of it, um, that really hit me hard and honestly it kind of all came to a head with the last week of my Christmas work. So I was actually finishing a little early to go and have a holiday. But that very last week I just suddenly couldn't do anything. I was really unwell. Um, and I cancelled four jobs which is a record, uh, previously, you know, Dr. Theater steps in. Yeah, yeah, I think I've cancelled the odd day here and there and I'm talking over 20 years, you know, I think two or three days, maybe four jobs in one week, just laid up in bed. So it comes to a head and you get that rest and you feel a lot better. One of the real ongoing problems, actually two ongoing problems I have from it is that my. I have incredibly dry mouth a lot of the Time I have to sleep with like, uh, special mints to kind of help me have something going on. Yeah, you know, it's, it's a real problem when you use your voice a lot to go, yeah, I need a kind of drink. And you might not have access to that in the middle of a show. You're doing a scene or whatever. Um, the other problem is this kind of underlying fatigue. And it's definitely there. Uh, and it's definitely real, but it's not the same as just feeling a bit done in or a bit tired, a bit sleepy. It's like your body shuts down in the weirdest way. So I don't sleep a lot. I never have done. But the way I don't sleep has changed. So I used to struggle to get to sleep and then be awake a lot in the night and things like that. Now it gets to like, I don't know, nine, quarter past nine if I'm lucky. And I just go. And it's like a switch.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I can go fully. So I've got to be in bed for that. But it means I can't do jobs when I'm driving late or anything because. Yeah, not in control of it. Um, but I'll often wake up at like 3:30 in the morning and that's when my day starts because I'm just awake. Yeah. Right. Okay. Sort of feel rested. But it's a long day, you know, and so you have to plan your energy in a completely different way around the work. I might have if I've got my own list of things I need to do, you know, my own work if you like.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: What can I do for that? I really have to plan it and I have to also listen to my body in a way that you don't when you're young. You just get on.
Speaker B: No, no, no. You just, you, yeah, you bounce back from things very quickly and, and yeah, because, yes, fine, you just, just crack.
Speaker A: I'll be right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything like that. But now it's uh. I'm a project manager for my own body. It's really strange. But also like going to the gym isn't like, uh, it's quite nice and I feel good when I do it. I absolutely have to.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: To keep myself at a base level of being able to function and like stretching and things like that. I don't know if it's common to all. I've heard that it's the chemo that does it because it strips away a lot of the new growth. Everything Gets very tight. Um, and even now I have to stretch every night. I don't want to have to do it or else, you know, give it a few days. And I'm like, oh, things are getting difficult in a way they never did before. So it's all these kind of new things and there's a limit to how much you can fit in a day. So actually my working day has got shorter even if I feel fit to work because I have to build in all this other stuff. So it's a hard one. Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean it's really taken a, uh, toll on just, just your body.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But, uh, on your mind as well. On, on, you said, thinking about your project, managing your own body. So you constantly sort of thinking ahead about, oh, if I've got that job, will I have time to recover ready for this job?
Speaker A: Yeah. I used to, I used to book my diary up back to back. I did one summer where I don't think I had a single day off for three months. And that felt good because I was like, I am working, I'm doing all these things. I felt really dynamic and creative and it was cool. Now it's like, right, if I do that job and I've got this time to recover, can say yes to that job.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, but if any curveballs come in on that or this sort of illness that I can't shake for three or four months and you know, I think a lot of people actually deal with long term stuff that's not necessarily a diagnosable thing. A lot of people sleep badly and are just used to a level of tiredness and it sort of becomes the norm. Yeah. Problem is, this is a new normal for me and I'm still learning it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I'm very conscious of it. And I think it will either settle down in terms of how extreme it is on my body, but also I would just become less conscious of it. But at the moment, as I kind of come back into work, uh, all cocky in summer, feeling great, bit of a tough kind of autumn and winter and then kind of start again. It's like, right, I have to think of it differently. I have to. So even though the, you know, we talked about how the equations changed in terms of the toll on my mind, it's like I can't do the things I used to do, which is really tough actually. Like mentally that's really hard to go from someone who's quite dynamic and doing lots of different creative things going. Yeah. I actually have quite a lot of limits now. That's really hard. Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting hearing you sort of saying that because I've sort uh, of struggled with that a little bit. Even just probably my body and going to the gym and recovery times and things like that. And that's on a. Almost self imposed. You know, I've worked hard at the gym, but yeah, okay. Walking down the stairs the following day is. I can feel that.
Speaker A: Yeah. Um, it's tough. I mean, the amount I go to the gym, I should be massive. I'm going five times a week for like two hours at a time. Half an hour without stretching.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, but, yeah, it's, it's frustrating to go, oh, where is it all?
Speaker B: Yeah, but. But our bodies change as well.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker B: You know, I mean, even down to like testosterone levels.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, we're in our 40s now and, uh, you know, going to the gym is probably one of the best things that we can do to try and pack on a bit of muscle and.
Speaker A: And obviously mentally as well.
Speaker B: And mentally as well.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, I think why you go to the gym changes. Yeah, I, I certainly found that, you know, sort of in the 20s, you know, just need your biceps to look good in a T shirt in the summer. Now it's like, it's as much for my head as it is for my body.
Speaker A: Yeah, I, I was never particularly a gym goer. Um, there have been kind of phases of my life where I've done it more than others. And that's partly because I'm kind of thinking it's given my career and it kind of helps and all of that, but partly just because I get into it and then I just get busy or whatever and drift away from it. These days, uh, it's absolutely essential for my mental health. I really feel it if I don't go. And one of the reasons is, is that all my hobbies became my job. And that was cool when I was using them all and kind of going, feeling really dynamic and I'm really busy and I'm using everything and doing all of that now that everything's sort of a struggle, work wise. Yeah, my hobbies are a struggle. So, you know, I talked about how I started as a singer and then I taught myself guitar because I wanted to write songs. I wasn't particularly interested in doing covers or anything. It was just to do my own thing.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Because I can't sing at the moment. It might come back, but it's just my, my vocal cords are unaffected, but it's very weak muscles around it. And my throat just. And I lack confidence and I've had a long period of not doing it. So everyone, you know, out of practice and. But I haven't really been able to do it now for like a year and a bit. So I haven't picked up the guitar in like a year. And it's really strange because it's like mentally my mental image of myself, my identity, if you like, is that I'm a singer and everything springs from that. What am I if I'm not that? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. What a strange thing.
Speaker B: Yeah. Your identity has been.
Speaker A: Uh.
Speaker B: You've built yourself around that identity. Sort of self imposed, creatively.
Speaker A: Everything sprung from that kind of. Not just because I've. I sort of found it easy to be fairly good at singing if you like. Yeah. I still had to work at it, but I loved it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And then if I don't love it and I'm not doing it and I'm m not that anymore, but I'm still doing the other things. It's just. It's almost like there's a hole at the foundation of my creative identity. It's really weird and I don't have the answer. I'm sort of thinking aloud if you like.
Speaker B: Because ability could come back.
Speaker A: Yeah. But uh, I think I'll have to work at it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: To train it back up. Which feels like a big mountain to climb.
Speaker B: Uh.
Speaker A: When I've also got other things that I need to kind of put my energies into like rebuilding my career and.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And moving into new directions. Yeah.
Speaker B: Talk about that. Talk about your career. Because like you say your identity was built around.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Sing a songwriter and you can't currently sing.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But you can talk.
Speaker A: I can talk. And you know, I've. I've always done voiceovers. I've always done kind of on camera work where it's much more talking than big performance stuff.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, I actually made a return to doing my. The Ghost tours at Battle Abbey.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: In October. I saw you. You came.
Speaker B: I was there.
Speaker A: Yeah. Um, and I was really worried about that because that was the first job where I would be projecting out loud to potentially, you know, hundreds of people at a time. And it's a big, loud open space so you got to be big. You know, I was worried, but actually it worked. It was okay. We made some, uh, changes to kind of the format so that I wasn't moving people around, which is where I'm really shouting at people to hurry up.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, so there was that kind of aspect of it. But you know, I talked about the fatigue. I can't remember lines in the way that I used to for doing the very quick turnaround kind of acting work, which is how you pay your bills. You know, the bread and butter kind of acting work. If you're doing a show, you've got weeks, maybe, maybe months to learn your script.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You turn up on a corporate job, they've given you the script the night before, maybe they've changed the lines when you get there, uh, you try it and they go, yeah, we still don't like it. Can we do this? And they move things around. And not just corporate work that can be anything on camera.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Uh, and you've got to adapt. And I don't have the confidence in my, uh, my memory at the moment. So it's kind of, it's, it's almost like laying down the things that you can do and to what degree and then matching it up to the bits that you used to do and seeing what can still happen if you like. So I'm kind of now looking at professionally, uh, like presenting work, live events, emceeing. So that's kind of big. My going to be my big kind of change that I'm rebranding if you like, is the Event mc.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Amazingly I was able to buy those kind of, uh, domain names, the social media handles for the Event MC or Event mc. I'm amazed.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, but I'm doing a kind of big relaunch, if you like, into that specifically, but with a view that that work still facilitates my creative work.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So that I can still go, you know what, I do still want to carry on writing, but that's a massive time sink. So I can't devote my time to that at the moment.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Do want to rediscover music, but that'll take time and energy and I need to build things up financially and, and for myself knowing that my career is kind of back on track, even though it's taken a, a little bit of a turn, you know, um, but kind of keep the door open for the other things that I used to do because there's some really good opportunities that sort of come along and you don't ever want to say no to good stuff and whatever that good is that you can get out of it, you know? Um, so it's been really hard because it would have been very easy at this point just to go, right, that's it. Creatively it's too hard. I can't trust it. Let's get A job? Yeah, let's get a. Whatever job. I can't do it.
Speaker B: Because you've always been creative in the way you've rediscovered what you can.
Speaker A: I'm too old to change. Matt, come on, let's be honest. It's. It's a part of it, though, isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker B: But being an event MC M, there is some creativity behind that in. Yeah. You know, because I'm guessing quite a lot of those things, you end up. While you've got some bits you're meant to say, there is some thinking on your feet, there is interacting with the crowd. It's amazing how that creative side out.
Speaker A: Yeah. It's amazing how many different skills that I've worked on and felt that were disparate skills growing up or kind of throughout my creative life that suddenly you come together and go, yeah, you know, I started as an improviser. Yeah. This is an improv job. There are things to, you know, uh, a script that you might have to make work. But then all my work on writing and, you know, when I started my. My masters, it was all about, well, it's professional writing, so it's unpicking language. And how it works is, you know, the messages, the stories in it and why that speaks to people. Well, I can take your bullet points then, and improvise that off the. The hoof and. And see what lands with the audience. Yeah. Um, but then standing up on stage as a performer, knowing how to read the audience and feed off them and give them what they need and adapt what you need to do to fit the mood and. And guide. You know, there's all these different things, even down to, you know, work I've done on stage, but directing or producing and, you know, pulling shows together, having that umbrella view of how an event works. I mean, we were talking about this off camera.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Connecting those dots.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: It's not like I come in and do this. This tiny part of this thing, but that's my. My blinkered view. That's all I need to think about. You need to have an understanding of what's going on around you and how it all connects up, because that's how you service all the different things, bring it together, give it the right voice to the right people at the right time. It sort of.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Sounds easy when you say it, but it's only when you're doing it and you look back and go, oh, yeah, I learned that skill teaching or, you know, why does that come into play when I'm hosting an event? Well, of course it does because I'm giving the people the information they need at the time that they need it, which is what teaching is.
Speaker B: Yeah. And understanding what's going on before and after. Because like you say quite often, you know, you think the job is turning up. Oh, and I've got to tell people this, this and this.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, but actually why do I need to tell them that? Why do they need to. How am I going to get them to actually listen? Because actually, yeah, this is important, but this is a boring safety line. How do I keep that going? And then how does it lead from me coming off stage to whoever else
Speaker A: is coming on that's right afterwards? And that could be a 10, uh, second gap. It could be a 10 minute gap.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And sometimes you do have to fill and, you know, make that time, valuable time. It's not, you know, like that old DJ cliche, you know, dead air is, is a sin. No, you've got to fill it with valuable stuff or know, to get off. You know, I'll leave it to it, folks, you know, uh, yeah, you don't want to listen to my voice all day. Just wittering on. I'll come back and I'll give you the information you need when you need it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know, yet there's so many different skills that you bring in. So that's, that's why I feel very comfortable and positive about this change in direction. Because even though my hand was kind of forced a little bit by the cancer and the treatment and kind of what I'm left with, I mean, that's a. Yeah, that's a very harsh way of kind of framing it. But, you know, ultimately, look, that process of looking at what can I do now could have been incredibly negative. But I feel really positive about it because I am using all the things. This feels like the positive end point of all that experience rather than the scraps, the kind of leftovers.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I think that's a choice, actually. I think you have to, in some way you can choose your experience. So this is, this is actually a, a lesson that I did get from the cancer treatment. But there was one moment where because I was having radiotherapy, I had to have a mask fitted. Um, and it's this kind of plasticky mesh. Um, and it's hot. And they bring out the machine. There's quite a lot of them. They lay you on this table and it's. So basically they can line you up for the treatment with the lasers and then target cancer with the beam. Um, so this mesh goes on and they're poking and prodding you and you've got your eyes shut and it's weird. It's claustrophobic. It's kind of uncomfortably hot. I think it's, uh, at 80 degrees or something when it first comes out and then suddenly it tightens and it's a bit like getting sort of hit by Spider Man. And you're there. Okay. Right. That's the position I'm now going to spend 10 minutes of every day for the next six weeks in. And it's really weird. And I've got that mask. They've given it to me afterwards as this kind of token. Now, when it finished, my partner Claire was in the room with her and she's like, all right. And I was just like, that was amazing because I kind of chose weirdly to find it amazing because I'll never do it again. It's a weird one off experience. It's a positive thing because they're doing it to try and save my life.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker A: So the negatives of it, I kind, uh, of chose to filter in into
Speaker B: a positive way, framing the experience.
Speaker A: I think that's it.
Speaker B: And I think, uh, you know, I mean, I mean, that's quite an extreme example, but I often use simple examples of. You know, the example I often use is you're getting ready to decorate and, uh, you know, you're setting everything up and you get your ladder out and you get the paint pot out and you, you get it. Dog comes running in, hits the ladder, paint goes everywhere. Now someone will be like, why does this always happen to me?
Speaker A: It's like, I mean, I would be swearing. Yeah. But then also you'd just be like, I know.
Speaker B: And you can laugh about it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, and okay, probably that first minute your body goes into the. But then you're just like, you couldn't make that bit up.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, and it's how you frame that experience.
Speaker A: I think it is. And actually, I think having kids massively helps you do that because so much of your life is weirdly, you're not in control of, uh, their own person, you know, and you've got to, uh, kind of go with it. And you've got to learn to do that and see the cool in it and the funny in it. Because otherwise, oh, it's a slog. And, yeah. It's unrewarding. And I really think that out of this, this process, I mean, in that moment of that. That mask kind of tightening and everything just coming out of that, uh, it felt like a real conscious choice. To find all of this really positive.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I did. And I, you know, I was really lucky in my treatment that I drove myself every day from. I live in Worthing, but I was driving to Brighton, um, for treatment. Uh, they're really lovely people that I was working with. So this was like, I get to spend my day with nice people.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, and I can't work. And there's a massive part of me going, oh, I can't work. And another part of me going, I can't work.
Speaker B: No.
Speaker A: Great.
Speaker B: I've actually got an excuse to slow down.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And, and, and stop.
Speaker A: Yeah. And the truth is I needed to because I was, you know, it definitely takes a toll on your body and a lot of it. I was quite, um, unwell for, you know. But you know, weirdly I, I'd made a conscious choice to try and frame it as positively as I could. The hardest part actually came, as I say, this time last year, January, where the worst part of my recovery was six weeks after my treatment had finished and I felt utterly depleted. Couldn't sleep, was, uh, you know, really physically fraught because it was, you know, so much adrenaline going in or whatever.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, and that was my most self pitying kind of time of going, when's this gonna end? Because I, I can't con, I can't keep going. This is all good when it feels awful. Uh, and it just caught up with me. But I came out of that pretty quick actually. So I was very lucky. You know, I really was lucky in my whole treatment. I responded very well and it wasn't as awful as it could have been. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, I've had a couple of people on the podcast here have gone through, you know, some life changing experiences and quite often they've framed it as one did. So it was the best thing that happened to me. But um, obviously not in that exact time. But how it's changed their outlook.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And um, what doors it's opened up going forward. You know, and other people have said now I, you know, I don't put things off. You know, someone saying, I think it's their sister had passed away and they sister always was saying, oh yeah, I'm going to do that for my 40th, I'm going to do that for my 45th birthday. They never made it to there. So now they're like, no, I'm not, not waiting. It woke me up. It was an awful experience. But it's given me this outlook that is positively benefiting my life.
Speaker A: And you know, in so many different ways. M. I said about how the fatigue is reframed, how I don't sleep. You still don't sleep very much, but at least I now sleep in. What, you know, when I do sleep, it's one solid chunk. Yeah. And the rest of the time I can use. Whereas sort of just drifting in and out and never feeling rested, uh, felt like dead time and really debilitating. So, you know, now it's like if I wake up at 3:30, I'm going to the gym, I'm getting up and I'm using that time. Yeah, it's a long day and I'm tired. But, uh, I, I want to use my time.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know, and yeah, that's, that's the kind of big lesson really. Be positive where you can be. Because there's a lot you can't be positive about that just sort of happens. So I, yeah, I definitely tried to reframe it and then go, right, I'm going to be positive about it. I'm going to try and use my time and I'm going to set some goals and I'm going to get there. Not in a fixed way. Like it has to be at this stage by this time or else it's not valid. But I want to feel like I'm making positive gains.
Speaker B: Do you think there's a bit to be said for that sort of gratitude? Yeah, a lot of people do a gratitude diary or, you know, today I'm grateful for these things and it, you know, because whatever is going on, there are always things that you can be grateful for. And actually I think the more positive you speak about yourself and speak to your mind, it keeps your mind going because it is easy to slump yourself down and talk yourself into, into depression. Yeah.
Speaker A: And I had depression for many, many years and it was really debilitating for exactly that reason that never felt like I was on the right track. Whatever labor I put into something, that kind of effort or work, if it didn't deliver my fixed ideas about what it should deliver, it's a failure. Give up, start again.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know, and I joked about it earlier, I'm too old to start again, so I got to make good on what I've got. But that's not a negative. It's like there's a sort of acceptance in that, uh, going, okay, this is the new reality. You know, whether that's a health thing that's taking you there or that you've got commitments which are, you know, good and bad, depending on how you look at It. Um, but what are you doing it for? Um, but that's why I always return to that thing of keep yourself in the equation because it's very easy to then try to be positive about stuff. But. But in a goal oriented way. You're still not in that equation. I'm going to be really positive because I've done this work today and I've earned this money and that gets me here in my career. Uh, what about you? Did you enjoy yourself? Did you meet nice people? Was the day the minute by minute experience bearable? You know, because you can get just as burnt out feeling that you're on the right track as you can feeling you're on the wrong track.
Speaker B: That's a really nice line to finish on. I like that. Thank you so much.
Speaker A: That's my pleasure.
Speaker B: To me.
Speaker A: Thank you.
Speaker B: Coming along from, uh, traveling over from Worthing as well. So we could do this in person.
Speaker A: Which is brilliant.
Speaker B: Really appreciate and yeah. Uh, always good to catch up. Like I saw you at Battle Abbey, didn't we?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, yeah.
Speaker A: That's lovely seeing you mate. Really. And I love your podcast. So I was very happy to come on. Thank you.
Speaker B: Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Balance Ambition podcast. I genuinely hope the stories inspire you as much as they inspire me. If you found value in today's conversation. Conversation. Please share it with a friend. And remember, by subscribing you won't miss an episode and it would truly mean the world to me. Stay balanced and I'll see you next time.
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