#68 Discussing How The Sales Industry Can Create Opportunities For Everyone, Ft Leslie Venetz

Speaker A: Um, Agencyflare.com presents 2 Cents Worth, a podcast on B2B sales and entrepreneurship. The one podcast that's not afraid to discuss real sales strategies with real entrepreneurs that produce real results. Here's your host, James Harper.

Speaker B: Yo, what's up, guys?

Speaker C: Welcome back to the $0.02 Word podcast.

Speaker B: I'm your host, James Harper.

Speaker C: Listen, today's episode is one that I know you are thoroughly going to enjoy. First off, we get to speak with one of the biggest B2B sales influencers in the game, Leslie Vanettes. But more than that, even though she's very well known on TikTok and sales talk, and she rolls with that crew and creates a lot of great content there, she has such a stronger and more important message when it comes to really advancing the sales industry when it comes to diversity, elevating minorities and women, the leadership roles, and putting action behind those words, which is very, very critical and very, very important for such a great industry like sales. More than that, she's a fairly new founder, which I think you are going to be able to relate to a lot. Even as a big time TikTok sales influencer, she recently just made the leap, leap of faith into starting her own business, sales team builder. And, uh, you get to hear a little bit about how that transition was. And she is the founder and the author of a, uh, great deep dive B2B sales playbook, which is available, which we've linked in the show notes.

Speaker B: But it's just a playbook that really

Speaker C: gives you a roadmap to be successful with B2B sales. So without any further ado, I introduce you to Leslie Vanette.

Speaker B: Hey, Leslie, thanks for joining me here today. How are you doing this morning?

Speaker D: I'm great, James. Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I'm super excited to speak with you. Um, before we hit record here, we were talking about kind of, you're really well known in the TikTok space. I, I called you an OG, kind of TikTok sales influencer, and I'm proud to say I believe I'm a OG TikTok, uh, follower of yours. Um, I obviously know the last 12 months TikTok's exploded, but, uh, I've been following your content for, I don't know, a year and a half now and really love what you put out there. So, um, super excited to have you on the show. Maybe for simple introductions, uh, why don't you just kind of give us your story and talk to me about how you got to where you're at now and, and what's the story of Leslie?

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. And if I'm an OG, the B2B TikTok, uh, creator, you're definitely an OG supporter, which uh, I don't think people realize how important those early supporters are on TikTok. So shout out to you, James for uh, amplifying the voice of a woman in sales. So thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker D: Leslie.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: Who, who the heck am I? We were also talking ah, off, ah, camera about uh, how I'm a native Montana and I feel like that's a really core part of who I am and what I bring to sales because it's that sort of like salt of the earth mentality. My word is, is my bond. Um, I moved to Chicago almost 15 years ago, so I've been here, moved without a job, uh, fell into a sales role. It was not the job that I wanted. I wanted a different job with the company, but I thought, I'll take this job and then I'll, you know, when the next job opens up, I'll move. Uh, immediately realized I just had a uh, real knack for sales and it was something that I became very passionate about very quickly. And here we are 15 years later. And uh, after 15 years in corporate America, I've been lucky enough to be able to speak, step away and uh, focus 100% of my time on my own business that I started in 2018. So now I'm a full time founder which is, is pretty cool. But it's um, uh, it's, it's been a great, A great journey. A roller coaster certainly at times, but a great journey.

Speaker B: Sounds like you have a very common journey among all of us that join sales is we didn't really mean to get into it and here we are and we fall into it. Yeah. I like to say like when I was in fourth grade and the teacher would ask what I wanted to be when I grow up. Grew up. I never in a million years would have thought sales that would have been like the exact opposite. What, what did you want to be when you were growing up? I'm curious.

Speaker D: What did I, I feel like it changed a lot. I went through the um, you know, like I wanted to be a marine biologist for uh, for a while and then I wanted to be a lawyer for a, for a really long time. And then I thought I maybe wanted to be a politician. So I guess I like, I mostly wanted to do things that needed really strong rhetoric skills. But like you, I just never realized that sales was a profession that should be, that is like an Honorable profession. That's a profession that's rooted in helping people. So like I, I always wanted to use the same set of skills I use today, but I thought you could only be a, uh, you know, a lawyer, politician, or work in nonprofit management to get there. I didn't realize that you could do that in the profession of sales.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And that's really well said. I love how you classified it as like an honorable profession. I think it kind of has outside looking in a lot of the opposite. Um, like preconceived notions like oh, sales is sketchy or it's high pressure and it can be a little dirty. Of course that, that there is a segment of the sales industry that is like that. I would say a very small segment. Uh, and you mentioned the honorable part. Um, talk to me about where that honor comes from, uh, within sales. Like in your perspective. I love how you phrase that.

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Something that's really, really important to me is changing that external perception of sales to make it a respected profession. Um, to make it a profession that little kids, ah, think about as, you know, as a direction that they want to take their career. Um, especially because it's an incredible way to bridge like generational wealth gaps and poverty gaps. You can be tremendously successful in, without a college degree even sort of regardless of where you're, um, you know, where your past is, um, or maybe because of those lived experiences that you've had that make you more relatable to your prospects, to your customers. Um, but you know, going back to sales, being rooted in helping others, I think that's what makes it most honorable. And when I look around at the sales people who are most successful, maybe not in one type of sale or in one gig, but have, have had a really successful long term career in sales, they are 99 times out of a hundred, the folks that lead with empathy, that lead with curiosity, the folks that are willing to say, I don't think this is the right solution or product for you, let me introduce you to somebody else. If there's, there's really not a fit like the, the best salespeople, the honorable salespeople that are making this a more respected profession are those that really do put their buyer at uh, the center

Speaker B: of everything they do, uh, 100%. It's just taking the servant mentality versus the sales mentality. And I always believe if you can serve and if you can help and if you're not afraid to say no, uh, out of the best interest of your prospect or customer, then you're probably going to be really good at sales and really develop some deep relationships. Some of my best friends have came from people that I was involved in some sort of sales relationship from. Um, yeah. I have so many questions to ask you. We're going to get to like a lot of the sales tactics later. But I think you have a much greater message than whatever we could dive into when it comes to trends and B2B sales and all of that. I, you are one of the few people, and I, I mean this wholeheartedly that talk about something near and dear to my heart and it's given people um, that come from different backgrounds. And you kind of mentioned it too and the honorable sales mentioned, uh, there you were talking about how sales can change a wealth, uh, gap. I totally believe that believe sales can change lives immensely. I um, know a lot of your content. I've heard a lot of your content talks about two things that I think need to be highlighted much more, especially in the sales industry. Number one, women in sales and how women can thrive in sales. And I believe actually there's needs, uh, to be much more women sales leaders out there. Um, and then number two, um, how minorities, uh, from a different background and maybe a more complex rough background, whatever you want to talk about it can um, really jump into a sales industry and how I was the sales community. We, we need to be welcoming that. I've seen multiple pieces of content from you around that I just threw a lot at you. When you kind of hear those words, what comes to light and give me some of your thoughts?

Speaker D: Well, first it just makes me really happy that that message is coming across so clearly in my content because like you, it's, it is really, really important to me. And the sort of like TikTok, uh, paradigm is to educate, inspire and entertain. And so I love sharing my B2B, you know, tips and techniques and scripts and all of that that people can put in to use today to help them. Um, but it is part of a broader message that there is room for all of us in sales and that we are each responsible for creating more space for people of color for women, um, to feel welcome and feel included in sales environments. Um, a couple thoughts that popped up straight away. Um, one, you know, one thing that I'm kind of always banging on about is that we as a sales profession need to stop hiring based on access. And I think access to higher ed is one of the easiest things to point out. You see these like SDR BDR job roles that are requiring a 4 year degree I deeply believe that we need to focus on hiring for lived experience. Experience versus that access to higher education. Um, so that's a really important one to me and I think um, and this is true for, for making a safe space not just for, for women, but anybody that's sort of in other, in sales. So pretty much anybody that's not a, like a CIS het white man. Um, that diversity isn't enough. It's, it's not enough for us to talk about building diverse sales teams or you know, half of our sales team, um, you know, is, is female or whatever it is. We, we need to take that next step towards inclusion. And that can look like making sure that you are promoting more women into leadership. Um, depending on the data you look at, only about 12 to 20% of B2B sales leaders are women. So it's, it's not a lot. And the follow along data to that is that when there are women in leadership positions, the other women in the organization are automatically ranked and viewed as more competent. So really important knock on uh, effects to um, making sure that you are actively promoting women and people of color into leadership positions and giving them maybe that extra training or that extra encouragement or coaching so that they are successful in those positions. Um, and something else that I talk a lot about is just acknowledging that most of the sales literature, the sales techniques, the sales processes that we all use have been created by men and predominantly by white men. So I think just the simple acknowledgement that like all of these historical narratives, processes, et cetera, were created by a particular group of people for a particular group of people. And then using that uh, acknowledgement and understanding as a baseline for why it's so important to actively include different voices, folks with different perspectives and lived experiences. Because that's the only way forward and it's the only way to really get outsiders to respect and understand how valuable the profession of sales is.

Speaker B: I, I cannot uh, I can't even add to that. I think that's so well said. I uh, do love the fact, I love all of it. But I really love how you said stop hiring based on like access. Like I mean I've been part of so many, I've consulted so many companies that hey, we, let's hire this AE because he comes from XYZ company and has XYZ access, this prospect pool. And therefore of course that account executive, you know, mid-30s white dude that just got this job out of college. I also think we're very prejudice in the hiring process based on qualifications. I think qualifications are total most of the time, um, especially when we're talking about the sales industry. I don't care about a four year degree um, at all. I actually, I don't want to say I, I view that against you by any means, but I don't look at that at all and hold any credence into that. Because sales is the ultimate experience driven and people driven business there is that can't be taught within a classroom. Uh, my one video that's actually picked up steam on TikTok was talking about like, like I believe we should be given felons a chance at sales. I uh, to re. When they're making the transition back into the real world, um, out of prison because their people skills are so incredibly high and their experience, experience is so incredibly dense. And like you've already mentioned, sales can change a wealth gap and sales can literally not just change lives, but save lives. And I've always believed like I don't come from a four year degree. I come from a hustle and grind type of background and I was able to pick up a cold calling job at 18 and do some door knocking and then get introduced to the big picture and the, the more um, higher up B2B sales that I'm in now. But it started with like a job just because I was able to, I had initiative and hustle. And what if we took as a sales community, took more of an open mind like you, you were speaking about and give that to uh, ex felons, give that to people of color from rough neighborhoods and teach them the value high skills of communication connection that can be applied to an entry level sales job with room for growth. Then obviously we need to have a hiring path for that. How can we make women um, more in a leadership position? Because there's a ton of, there's a ton of positions um, out there right now trying to hire for women. And if you're telling me that women are viewed more competently with someone in leadership that's insanely valuable, then we need to like really diversify our leadership. Um, so I love your message. I absolutely love your message. And before this, um, and I'm going on a rant here, but before this conversation started, you talked about International Women's uh, day. You talked about heels on deals, something you're a part of with a group of women. Talk to me about what heals on deals is and like let's, let's elevate this message even more. So.

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. And one thing, uh, maybe a call to action for the Listeners, James, uh, is that it's my opinion that being an ally is not enough. So saying I support women, that is not enough. That is the least platforming a woman on your podcast, amplifying women's voices, actively promoting women and giving them the coaching or the training that they need to be successful. Like, those are the pieces of advocacy that are required. Um, being an ally is just simply not enough. So call, call to action. I know there's a lot of folks that say they're an ally and it just feels a bit performative to me.

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker D: Um, but heels to deals. Thank you so much for bringing up because I am jazzed about this project. I, uh, was extraordinarily, ah, lucky to be asked to contribute to the book Hills to Deals. How Women are dominating in Business to business sales. It is a, um, bit mind blowing because other folks that are also contributors to the book are individuals like Jill Conrath and Laurie Richardson. Like we talk about, oh, geez. I mean these are the, the OG women in sales. Um, I was talking to my mentor yesterday and he said that Jill's book was actually the first sales book that he ever read. And it's like sort of bizarre that the first sales book he ever read. Now she's in a new book and you know, me, who he's been mentoring for six years, also in it, like this real full circle moment, I think for many of us that had an opportunity to contribute. Um, but it's a great collection of stories meant to inspire, uh, other women to consider sales as a profession and certainly meant to educate and inspire that community of allies and advocates to get kind of a behind the curtains view of what it's been like to be a woman in sales. Because the threat is that it's been really hard. But like, we are showing up and we've decided if we want change then, then we're going to be that change. So it's available, um, if folks hit me up on, on TikTok or LinkedIn, probably on LinkedIn, I can, can send the link. Um, and all of the proceeds are invested back into scholarships through the Girls who Sell Empowerment Fund, um, to help more women get the training they need to be successful in sales. So nice give back project as well.

Speaker B: Nice. And talking about call to action. There you go. That's pure action. So awesome that you're doing that. Um, we'll be sure to link it in the show notes and put that out there as well. Absolutely love that. So knowing where you're at talking about female, uh, in sales, you not only um, have done it, you're constantly doing it and you're one of the, the bigger influencers. Which might even be crazy to hear, I don't know, um, on TikTok in the sales, in the sales community. Talk to me about why TikTok, how you got there. Um, and just talk to me about like your journey becoming like ah, this kick ass sales influencer.

Speaker D: It's so weird. I, I know it's like uh, I have a girlfriend that constantly is reminding me that I'm like TikTok famous. Um, and it kind of makes me blush a bit. Um, but my journey to TikTok was actually uh, kind of reactive. I was really dissatisfied with a lot of the content that I saw going viral on LinkedIn because it was like super bro y, super like hustle. I wake up at three in the morning and you know that one you probably saw like I work out for four hours now I'm flying to. And then those posts were getting thousands of likes and then I would see this really incredible content. Either um, folks sharing really meaningful stories or folks sharing really useful, really valuable advice and those tips and techniques for free. And they just were kind of falling flat on LinkedIn. So I thought where can I take my message, which is a message to inspire the next generation of sales professionals is in a message to help folks that are new to the profession, like stop gatekeeping. Some of those top techniques that, you know, we always see top performers like maybe hold a bit too close to the chest. Um, and after some consideration I thought I'm going to try TikTok, which was a really weird time to start it because it's when um, TikTok was going to be banned in America. Uh, uh, and it's also when Clubhouse was hot on the scene and everybody was flooding to Clubhouse and I, for whatever reason just really listened to my intuition and said TikTok is the right place for me. And over the past, you know, 15 plus months have spent a lot of time and energy building that community. And really in you, I'm sure are seeing this too, James. Like in the last two to three months, after over a year of like just teaching the algorithm that our content is good, teaching the algorithm which videos to push out and which hashtags to promote. Just in the last two to three months we're seeing a lot of new creators come onto the platform and join the sales talk community and have a ton of success. So it's really incredible. Um, and I really, because I get to see like the personal messages that I get from people saying, I use that and I close the deal or I was about ready to quit my job and leave sales forever and I realized it wasn't sales I hated. It was, you know, this manager, this process. Um, like the journey for me has been creating that community and connecting with people and helping people. Uh, and as a result I've been really lucky to get some great clients for my business.

Speaker B: Yeah, good.

Speaker D: And so I don't want people to think it's only about like inspirational content. Like there's a real revenue impact, um, to being on TikTok as well. But like leading with the desire to help has on the back end, um, then ended up being really profitable. So that's always nice.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's kind of like how sales is, right? Actually, in general, I think, like, if you lead with value and lead with good intention and you do that consistently, like, it ends up paying off. Like, and it ends up paying off because you become a kick ass salesperson and you make a ton of money. Like, that's the point of sales. It's, it is to make money. But that's just to me now, like almost a byproduct of the great relationships I get and the constant learning I get from people like yourself and others in this community. And it's like, so if you lead with value like you did for 15, 16 months on TikTok, and then all of a sudden like it becomes a revenue stream. It's like, actually that's kind of how sales works in general. Like, you build that credibility. Um, I, I like how you mentioned the new creators on Tick Tock. I, man, it feels like the last 90 days I see a whole new, um, like the Instagram creators coming over to Tick Tock and I kind of get a little defensive at first, like, no, stay, stay on Instagram. But like, uh, we welcome them with open arms. Talk to me as a sales professional, as a marketing professional, even maybe just a professional in general. Do you see the value of trying to build a personal brand? Um, I don't want to say late in the game. I still think it's early in the game, in TikTok. On TikTok and just kind of talk to me about TikTok in general and some, it doesn't have to be sales tips, just maybe just some tips in general that you see since you are so familiar with the platform that might benefit someone. Listening.

Speaker D: Yeah, everybody that is listening should Definitely consider if TikTok is a good platform for them either to build a personal brand. Um, because Although I recently become a full time founder, the first year I was on TikTok, I was just, you know, a B2B sales professional sharing tips. Um, but it did really help my personal brand or if you are a business owner, if you're in, you know, real estate, anything like that, where your brand is also your business. 100%. Yes, get on TikTok immediately. Uh, the, the, I, you know, I think like the, the moment for me that it, it clicked James, was I had just onboarded a client that came to me from TikTok and I was about ready to take a week off and I was going to be completely offline. And so I, you know, communicated. I'd be completely unavailable, you know, no emails, no text, nothing. And instead of getting the normal reaction that I got for, you know, 15 years in corporate America, which was the, uh, okay, but if it's like really urgent, I can text you or, but still check your email like once every 24 hours just in case. Right. The client said, incredible. Like, we were so excited that you get to take this week off and go on this trip. Like, you enjoy yourself, we'll talk when you get back. And it was this moment of realizing, oh, this person's been listening to my message for a year about work, life balance and the importance of boundaries and the importance of taking a moment to step back so that you can lean in more fully when you return. And so we are aligned on that. And I don't have to try to like justify myself. They just get it. Um, so for, for anybody that is thinking about TikTok, do it. Show up, uh, bring your full authentic self and you're going to find that you then attract the type of customer that you are most excited to help and most excited to work with.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Really well said. Um, talk to me about like, following. I think so many people try to. Obviously you have a big following that didn't happen overnight. Uh, that took a lot of effort, a lot of content creation. A lot of like, thought goes into it. I think people think, oh, I can just pull up a phone or start my camera and talk. And it's like, no, you need to be more authentic and more valuable than that. Talk to me about like the follower aspect. Like, I think there's this big misconception and the content creation world, like, you have to have this massive following to be a, uh, success. And I heard you on someone else's podcast talk about how maybe that's not true, like even a, uh, smaller following, that you're more valuable to can still be really valuable.

Speaker D: Yep. Yeah, I was just talking about that with Morgan Smith actually like maybe two weeks ago.

Speaker B: Yeah, actually, actually that might have. I, I heard you on LinkedIn somewhere and Morgan's great. I don't know if it was with him, but uh, awesome. Tell me about it.

Speaker D: You're spot on, James. I mean I think the uh, like when you're starting your account and you're creating content, you need to ask yourself, why am I creating this content? Who am I creating this for? Am I creating this content because it's important for me to be a famous influencer and I'm trying to go viral? Like, is that the purpose of the content I'm creating or am I creating the content to inspire like this? Like for me it was, I'm trying to reach 18 to 24 year olds that are considering a career in sales or new to say like it was so, so niche and beyond that, not even 18 to 24 year olds, like specifically women and people of color. Like that was such a small niche. So it was never, I m never thought my content would do as well as it's done. Like I didn't realize there would be as big of an appetite for it as there is. Particularly 15 months ago when um, you know, TikTok had at that point just released TikTok for business as a concept and it was only for B2C. There were no B2B creators on TikTok. And even TikTok for business was a new concept to the platform. So I think have that conversation with yourself and realize that it's okay to have a following of, you know, 5,000, 10,000, 20,000. It doesn't need to be 500,000 because it's my opinion that your goal should be to create a community. And I focus much more on engagement and community than I do on numbers. Which isn't to say that it doesn't hurt when you put a lot of work and thought into a post and then it flops. Yeah, there's still an element of like, come on.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker D: You know, because they're sort of like the bigger purpose behind it. You know, you don't get too, too down about it. Uh, but you know something else that you said that I would pull forward is um, that I don't think people should over complicate it either. Like show up and make sure you're showing up with a message that is valuable but don't think that you have to have like a whole fancy setup and 17 ring lights and a microphone like that's great. And if you get there, like, awesome. I still record all of my content just on my phone and then I edit it in the TikTok app. Like I am so just like low tech on the way I create content. Um, so don't, like, don't let yourself use that as an excuse to not start creating content today. Because it's better if you just take action and start showing up and putting

Speaker B: your stuff out there and finding your people absolutely imperfect. Action done is always better than perfect. 100% agree with that. I think a lot of people though, um, maybe talk to me about this, talk to me about how you do map out your content and content creation because I really do think it takes more work than some people might initially envision. Like even myself, I have a couple thousand followers. I've had a few videos do really well. Um, I host a weekly podcast. We have a decent sized email list. But like, when it comes to TikTok and like, the fact that you still edit on your phone I think is awesome. Like, that takes freaking talent and time. And I think you, I think, I think you had a post out there like talking about like, yeah, I, I put a lot of time into my content and you know, I should get paid for it or I, I don't want to speak for you, but it was something along those lines and I was like, hell yeah. It takes so much time to edit a freaking TikTok video.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, it was a, ah, I replied to a really rude comment.

Speaker B: That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Speaker D: Because I, I sell a playbook which is like, you know, 15 years of my knowledge, brain dumped m into this, like really easy to navigate playbook. Um, but it was, uh, video about being frustrated when top performers gatekeep the best tips. So I, you know, took the time to put everything into this one playbook. But I sell it. It's 150 bucks. It's not expensive, but it's. It took me a lot of work. I have to pay for the platform, etc. Etc. Um, and a person left a really rude comment pretty much chastising me for, for being, for asking people to pay for my labor and my intellectual property. Um, and so I went pretty hard at them. So I was like, first and foremost, like, if I want to charge for my labor, that's my right. You don't get to expect me to give you this for free. Um, but as part of that video, I also shared that for folks who don't create content who only consume it, yes, I Think it can be really, really easy to underestimate how much time it does take to create content. Um, and depending on the type of content I'm creating, what I'd shared is between TikTok and LinkedIn. Um, it's between 40 and 80 hours a month that I spend. So like often in a month I'll spend the equivalent of one to two full work weeks creating free content. Um, so you're right, I don't think that folks necessarily realize how much time it takes. Also, you don't have to take that much time if you don't want to. Um, so it's not that that's like the, you know, the barrier to entry is you need to spend 40 hours, you know, 40 hours a month creating content. Um, a couple of things that I've done that have made it a lot less time consuming. When I started, I would create whole content plans. So an easy way to start would be figure out what your umbrella message is. Like, that's the thing you want your channel to be about. Then pick five subtopics and then you can create a tree where you create like five topics underneath each of those topics. I, uh, think folks would be surprised how quickly they come up with like 100 ideas to talk about. But it takes time and you do have to be thoughtful about it. What I've actually found works best for me is to text myself every idea that I think of. So it's all just in a really long text message thread between my phone and my personal phone. And so when I sit down to create, I just go through all of the like, kind of train of thought ideas I've had over the past. And I batch create content. So I only create like every once. Once every like two, three or four weeks. So then I sit down and every sort of stream of consciousness thought I've had over that two, three, four weeks and I can record from there. And that's what I found works best for me. Um, so between sort of capturing all my ideas as they happen and then batch creating content that, you know, that does win me back a tremendous amount of time. But boy, editing in the app is still so time consuming.

Speaker B: So time consuming. I'm convinced there is a business model out there. It's probably already happening of like a video company, like, send me your videos, I will make you the most badass TikToks. And here you go, 500 bucks a month or whatever. Um, talk to me about your playbook. I think this is really interesting. It's called unleash youh potential a B2B sales playbook. You are right. I'm looking at this now. There are a ton of courses from what it looks like, or modules, as you have them, with a lot of sub modules in there. Talk to me about it.

Speaker D: Yeah, So I created it last February, um, again, like, just because I. I wanted to give folks access to all of this information at a price point that was like, really reasonable. Right. And you see a lot of the courses out there and they're hundreds and hundreds of dollars or you have to pay every single month to have access. Like, if that works for people, like, I'm not gonna yuck your yum. But for. For. Yeah, yucky. I really, like, I wanted something where people could pay one time they had, you know, unlimited access. It was one sort of small investment in their success. Um, and I mean, I get extraordinarily positive feedback on it. So I know it's good. I know, um, it's valuable. And actually on my calendar in April, which I'm really excited about, are some updates to the playbook because I'm going to add in a bunch more video.

Speaker B: Oh, cool.

Speaker D: Um, so I think, because right now a lot of it is, uh, is. Is like text heavier PowerPoint, so just to make it even more accessible based on different learning styles. So I'm excited about that. Um, evolution. But yeah, I. I don't know, James. I'm just out here trying to. Trying to help people, but also, like, not go broke well while I do it. And I think that's so much of sales. Right. Like, you can be motivated by money and by your comp plan and also be motivated by helping people. Those. Those two things don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Speaker B: Totally. And I love how real you are about it. It's like the highs are high in sales and low can be low. Same with entrepreneurship. I've been running my own thing for coming up on 10 years now, and there's been years that have been great and there's been years that are tougher and even, like, if you break it month by month. And I think there's this, um, I, I'm going to blame Instagram for this, but, like, there's this, like, facade of entrepreneurship, um, the hustle till you die mentality kind of grew there. And then like the fancy, like, oh, man, I hate the people that wear these, like, Rolex watches for, like, their sales meetings, like on Instagram, at least. Um, it's like, it's not always flash and people are human. We have one of the most badass female tick tock influencers on this podcast and you're like, I'm trying to do this and maybe not go broke. Like that's still a thought and uh, a reason to continue. And it's not always like as flashy as people talk about. And you've made the transition from career to full on entrepreneurship. Last few questions here actually kind of pertain to that. So there's a good segue. How was that, that leap of faith?

Speaker D: Incredible. It was absolutely incredible. But with the caveat that I started my business in 2018. So while I had the comfy cushion of a, um, six figure enterprise B2B job, I got to make a lot of mistakes and learn from them and I got to do it in a super low risk environment. So I think a huge part of the reason, two things, one part of the reason that it's been an easier transition for me, I think than it often is for folks is because I had that four years of uh, figuring out what I don't want to do and the types of clients I don't want to work with and getting a lot of those foundations under me also just from like a logistics standpoint. So I think that was one like one piece of it. Um, I think the second piece of it was that at the beginning of 2021 I really thought about making sales team builder my full time, full time gig. And I talked myself out of it. Like I put up every roadblock and every excuse. Oh, I, you know, the safety net. Oh, my husband also just got a job at a startup, um, too big of a risk. Oh, we want to buy a house and you know, we won't get the lot. Like literally. James, every excuse you could think of, I put, I put it up and was like, okay, well I know I want to leave the job I have now, so I'm going to interview. So I went through this six month process of uh, interviewing and I was really specific. I wanted another head of sales role with an early stage startup, like a series a series B startup. So I was talking to founders all, you know, all day long and I finally got to the point where I was like, why am I trying to work so hard to put money in somebody else's pocket to work for another founder? And it just so coincided. Then in October on a Friday, I got a job offer that was what I thought was my dream job offer, like CEO reporting line, full ownership of the entire commercial function. It was a 460k offer which would have, I mean truly like a life altering Amount of money. Like, more money than I've ever thought about making. Um, and the next day, I won my biggest client that I'd won for Sales Team Builder and was working for a female founder, somebody who's deeply embedded in, like, respecting pronouns, creating an inclusive culture, like, making sure, uh, like, our values were just so aligned. And I sat with myself and realized that I was just 100 times more excited about that, working with her and the work through Sales Team Builder than I was about this path that I thought was the best. The path to Chief Revenue Officer that I was supposed to be on. And that was it. Like, in one minute, I realized if this job, which is everything you thought you wanted, if that's not what's getting you as excited as the opportunity to do your own thing, um, then you need to stop ignoring your intuition and you need to stop actively talking yourself out of the path you need to be on. So I think it was those two things. Like, part of it was just simply that I've been doing the work for so long, and part of it was that I tried to talk myself out of it for a year, and it was shit. So when I finally said yes and leaned in, it felt really right.

Speaker B: Awesome. And, ah, it sounds like, too. Like, I. We always say money's an important thing. It should never be your everything. And, I mean, a $460,000 job offer is massive. Freaking massive. But in your case, your business, uh, or money was an important thing. It wasn't everything. And look at what it's unlocked. It's unlocked a lot of happiness.

Speaker D: Well, it kind of makes me sweat when I talk about it because I'm like, I can't believe I said no to that.

Speaker B: No, you should. No. That's awesome. What good is a person's yes if they can't say no? And so, yeah, that means a lot. That means a lot. Cool. Last. I have two last questions here for you, and I so appreciate your time here today. First question. Well, one, it's going to be more of business related to. It's kind of a fun one we do at the end here. Um, number one, if you were to give one piece of advice to a hiring manager that's a male, let's say it's a white male. Uh, in the sales game, what piece of real advice would you give that man? Ooh.

Speaker D: You know, I would say, uh, what we started our conversation with, which was look at. Look at lived experience and look at potential versus only qualifications. Like, don't look at the bullet points and the qualifications really look at potential. Um, and those lived experiences.

Speaker B: Love it. I think that's really well said, and I, I encourage anyone listening that's in a hiring role to follow that. And like Leslie said earlier, like, take action. Uh, that should be a call to action. Absolutely. And that should be a standard. Uh, just in hiring in general. Sounds so simple, but for sure, in sales. All right. We play this game. It's called box roulette Question. Roulette. I don't know. I really don't know. We just call it a roulette. Something. Black box, white box. People think these are like cigarette packs. When I do this, I'm like, no. Uh, certain cigarettes. Uh, random questions. They can be anything across the board. We've never read them on the show. Um, would you like to choose from the black box or the white box? No difference in questions. I. I have no clue.

Speaker D: Okay. Black box.

Speaker B: Okay. You're part of the 85% of people on the show that choose the black box.

Speaker D: Ooh, I wonder what sort of mental thing that is.

Speaker B: I know, I know. I think about that often. Um, this is good. This is really good. Especially with, um, the change you've been through this last year. What's one thing you've learned about yourself this past quarter?

Speaker D: This past quarter. Wow. I have learned so much about myself this past quarter. It's been, um, like a crazy time

Speaker C: of, uh,

Speaker D: really having to look at what I want to carry forward into this new version of myself. So I think what I've learned about myself is the importance of, like, looking at past habits and actions and activities and asking, do those still serve me? And as I get, for the first time in 50 years to redefine what good looks like are those things that I want to carry forward to create my new foundation.

Speaker B: It's really, it's really self aware, and I think that's really. Actually, that's. That's great. That's great. Do those still serve you or, you know, we should all be asking that question, really, because things change. People change, and that's okay.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us today. Where can people find you? Obviously, TikTok. And we will link whatever you. You call out here below, so you don't. You don't have to spell it out. This will all be linked below. Uh, but where can people connect with you?

Speaker D: Perfect. Yeah. So obviously, heels to deals and the playbook are great ways to support me. Find me on TikTok at salestip talk. Uh, LinkedIn is still a primary channel. I'M posting there every single day, so you can hit me up on LinkedIn. And I also just released the freaking cutest product. I should have brought one. I can't believe I didn't. But it's this, like, little glass apothecary jar. And inside of them are, like, little smiling, like, vitamin capsules. And then I, um, hand roll, like, daily doses of inspiration. Think, like, um. Yeah, like a fortune cookie. And you can open one every day and get inspired. Get your headspace. Right. Um, so I'll share that one, uh, as well, in case people want to, um, want to check it out. But this is a really lovely conversation, James. Thank you so much for having me.