Global EV Trends w/ Nick Ancell

1 - > The reimagined mobility podcast series I'm Here with Nick Ancell 2 - > from E-mobility engineering magazine. 3 - > So we've had a lot of different guests on this show so far, 4 - > from a lot of different technical areas and e-mobility 5 - > and mobility space in general, that we're really talking here 6 - > about the future or again, as we call it, how do we reimagine mobility? 7 - > I'm excited to have you on the show, Nick, because I think from a 8 - > from the perspective of what you're looking at from a magazine's perspective, 9 - > you certainly get the trends, you get the different technologies, 10 - > you get the different players, and you probably also see it how it plays 11 - > in different regions of the world and how currently the state 12 - > is just in a small little section of e-mobility, 13 - > which is obviously the EV vehicles.

14 - > Sales are not always the greatest everywhere. 15 - > So I'm super excited to talk about and what you guys and specifically you see 16 - > from your perspective as we see, reimagining mobility 17 - > as a as a big topic, going not only today but certainly into the future. 18 - > Sonic, give our listeners and viewers a little bit of a background 19 - > of who you are, where you come from, what you currently do and learn. 20 - > Let's dive in together and reimagine the future here.

21 - > Excellent. 22 - > So, Stephan, well, as you said, my name is Nick Ancell. 23 - > I am the publisher of the E-Mobility Engineering at. 24 - > Very pleased to be here.

25 - > Thanks for the invitation. 26 - > And that's taken a while for us to connect on this. 27 - > But yeah, it's great to be here. 28 - > So, e-mobility engineering for those of you don't know, is 29 - > a monthly technical magazine specifically for engineers 30 - > working on e-mobility projects globally through the industry verticals.

31 - > So we don't just cover automotive, we cover the whole ecosystem 32 - > from a technical points of view. 33 - > So part of the basis of our company is helping engineers 34 - > learn from other engineers, no matter which space they read the aviation guys 35 - > and learnings from automotive the same in marine across heavy duty and off highway 36 - > so, I think one of the easy things is for people to just focus on cars. 37 - > You know, where e-mobility is a lot bigger than that.

38 - > Electrification is a lot bigger than that. 39 - > So we started in 2018. 40 - > We've been publishing racing magazines for the good old combustion engines for, 41 - > for 20 years now. 42 - > We also do autonomous, so it's a natural progression 43 - > for us to move into e-mobility.

44 - > Start off as a quarterly magazine, but with the growth of the industry, 45 - > we've gone to a bi monthly magazine with supporting website, 46 - > and we're publishing articles that, you know, we just 47 - > there's too much content to cover sometimes. 48 - > And as I mentioned, you know, the focus is on the technical side of everything, 49 - > but we do, so we focus on battery materials. 50 - > We can write the way into the chemistry, the materials, the ceiling, the ...

51 - > and then straight into, you know, some of the motors, and everything, 52 - > including the powertrain as well. 53 - > So there's so many considerations, you know, the engineers 54 - > have to sort of understand and learn from their parts, but so then when we when 55 - > we dive in directly, then Nick and oh, let's talk about what is everybody's mind. 56 - > Right now. Is it.

EVs are sort of stuck, right. 57 - > We've we've come a very long way, not only on the technology 58 - > but also on the number of EVs we're selling now. 59 - > We're sort of reached a plateau, is what I believe 60 - > as a relates to sales numbers. 61 - > How do you guys from from your perspective in your business again magazine, 62 - > are you are you feeling this sort of plateauing 63 - > as it relates to the engineering piece related to e-mobility across the board, 64 - > or are you actually seeing the exact opposite that everybody says, okay, 65 - > we got a little bit of a breather now we can really catch up?

66 - > Or do you see? 67 - > No, we have not really seen anything slowing down since 2021. 68 - > Whenever that exactly time frame is, when EVs really on a global basis, 69 - > not just China and Europe and also the US really started to take off. 70 - > Share a little bit from that perspective.

71 - > Yeah, I think so that the the the industry slowing down is 72 - > it's it's across the board. 73 - > People are saying about how the sales are slowing that, 74 - > I think from a consumer point of view, we might hit a plateau. 75 - > And there's various different reasons we see behind that. 76 - > But when you look at the technology, when you look at the OEM, 77 - > when you look at the solution providers, there's so much going on.

78 - > I would say, you know, there's more content when we can publish. 79 - > So, you know, looking at the solution providers themselves. 80 - > But your shop shelves, all the others in the industry, 81 - > we're seeing new products come along, almost like, we're seeing new innovations 82 - > in research and development is just steaming ahead. 83 - > But you're correct, you know, sort of across the board, apart 84 - > from places like China, the, the sales for consumers has slowed down.

85 - > And that's that's got nothing to do with the technology. 86 - > You know, that's got nothing to do with the cars which are available. 87 - > I think a lot of it comes from misinformation. 88 - > You know, partly from journalists and mainstream media who, really sort of, 89 - > you know, talking about issues but unknown issues for most consumers.

90 - > You know, obviously, we've been through range anxiety. 91 - > We're going through charging anxiety. 92 - > You know, we see articles daily in the UK about how the EVS are creating 93 - > damage to the roads. 94 - > You know, car ownership, it should be wearing.

95 - > You know, these cars are a lot heavier, but they're really non-issues, 96 - > you know, it's I think that's a big part where a lot of the OEM is can help 97 - > with a lot more education towards the consumers, 98 - > not just about what the vehicle is, but how it can benefit their lives, 99 - > how they need to move forward and change mobility 100 - > because they just can't go on as it's, I mean, obviously you mentioned China. 101 - > That's obviously a very hot topic for a lot of people 102 - > at the moment apps, but they set the standards.

103 - > Let's be honest. 104 - > You know, and they talk about their EVs before anyone else. 105 - > But the way they brought them to market, the way they bought the volumes from 106 - > the consumer was completely different. 107 - > You know, in some cities, the taxis turned to EVs.

108 - > So people who were catching taxis got to experience an EV 109 - > without going and test driving, one without having to purchase one. 110 - > They just saw the benefits straightaway. 111 - > And obviously there are other cities in in Europe and the US which do that. 112 - > Amsterdam is great.

113 - > So that's you know, it's it's also same as you get off with Chip with Apple. 114 - > There's the Tesla waiting for you next. 115 - > So it's there's a lot lacking in education and awareness. I 116 - > use taxes as well.

117 - > So I think the stage of the early adopters is that, 118 - > you know, we're starting to see them become more mainstream. 119 - > But when people are told that they need X amounts of right, 120 - > you know, you've got to look at how many, how far people actually drive in a day. 121 - > I mean, the US is in different news, because you've got a great expanse. 122 - > People drive a lot longer than they do here in the UK.

123 - > In Europe, you know, most people are making short sermons. 124 - > Most guys were taking their kids to the schools, running to the shops, 125 - > maybe commuting to work. 126 - > So they don't really need more than 2 to 300 miles. 127 - > Obviously there's exceptions to the case.

128 - > You know, you've got sales reps who are covering hundreds of miles, 129 - > almost thousands of miles away. 130 - > But when you break it down to what people actually need, 131 - > there's a lot of misinformation. 132 - > I think that's probably the biggest problem 133 - > with the adoption of EVs at the moment. 134 - > When we look at the adoption of EVs as well, 135 - > charging infrastructure, it's a huge problem.

136 - > But we can overcome this, and everyone needs to sort of group together 137 - > and think of it as one, you know, I think one of the biggest problems 138 - > with the charging infrastructure, again, is the education, you know, 139 - > but you don't need to stop for 40 minutes to an hour to charge. 140 - > Yeah. 141 - > We see a lot of technologies coming through and a lot of changes 142 - > in strategies as well. 143 - > You know, everyone always starts talking about 144 - > we need to take us back to the previous.

145 - > Right. 146 - > But there are some OEMs out there who are starting to rethink. 147 - > And they're producing smaller batches with fast charging capabilities, you know, 148 - > so you can go to 80% with some batteries coming through five minutes 149 - > worth of charging. 150 - > We covered, that was a game changer for most people.

151 - > And, you know, I've talked about it before. 152 - > It's right when people say, oh, I need a huge range. 153 - > I go on these long journey threads. 154 - > I am one of city people who has done an 850 mile, drive in one go.

155 - > And it's horrendous, you know, three points. 156 - > Like what if you take that. 157 - > So these little restaurants, what people need, you know, 158 - > to have to keep these going. 159 - > So I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned from China.

160 - > But that's one of the so that ethos you do is looking at how people can learn 161 - > from one another from different countries to different industries as well. 162 - > And when you talk about Europe, obviously we've got a lot for this in Europe. 163 - > It's it's an open place. 164 - > But, you know, when you look at things like vehicle to grid coming through, 165 - > you know, bidirectional charging in Europe, 166 - > we want the end of the early adopters of that, because we, 167 - > we have to roll out the smart meters.

168 - > When you're traveling from, say, Switzerland to France 169 - > or to Germany, let's that becomes a lot more of an issue. 170 - > When you hear stories of people with charging carts, you know, 171 - > trunks of different charging cars for all the different applications. 172 - > So we need that sort of interoperability. 173 - > And, focus of moving the industry forward.

174 - > So why China again, you know, it's such an interesting case at the moment. 175 - > Some of the vehicles coming out of that, I mean, if you go back to 176 - > sort of my history in automotive from where I come from, was 177 - > from a young child with the hot hatches, it was all about the German 178 - > by the through. 179 - > The Frenchman was back to his, you know, I was slightly off the 180 - > the great British automotive scene. 181 - > Yeah.

182 - > Life itself and it's just hardware. 183 - > It's changed and the innovation coming out of China is unbelievable. 184 - > I mean, we've got the BYD Yang Yang, which has a flood prevention system 185 - > which could drive through a flood. 186 - > It could actually, you know, navigate itself through water for 30 minutes.

187 - > You know, we're all selling to some recycling 188 - > so you can escape if you need to. 189 - > So I think everyone's just sort of needs to get on board 190 - > with EV adoption and, and look at their own use case itself. 191 - > Let me, for us here in the UK, I mean, find something for us 192 - > as a family, but can tow horses, you know, week in week out go just not really 193 - > a vehicle can do that in the EV space. 194 - > So it doesn't everyone but I think yeah.

195 - > Looking forward we will get to that point. 196 - > And it's still the early stages. 197 - > You know we've had test this for a while. 198 - > We've had a few other different EVs for a while.

199 - > But it's still the early days you know, when we look five, 200 - > ten years down the line, it's going to be a whole different situation. 201 - > An interesting point about, charging infrastructure, right? 202 - > As I mentioned, I was in Switzerland for two weeks just recently, 203 - > and that was blown away by the by the fast charging infrastructure 204 - > they have on the highways. 205 - > I mean, there were special places where you can pull to the side 206 - > on the highway there.

207 - > There wasn't even a rest area, was literally just a fast charging station. 208 - > And, I drove from the north of Switzerland 209 - > all the way down to the south, and it was throughout on that major highway. 210 - > I mean, every I would say every 20, if not 30km. 211 - > That was one of those things.

212 - > I was very impressed. 213 - > They weren't very busy, which was interesting at the same time. 214 - > But the infrastructure is there. So great point on the infrastructure.

215 - > It's a it's a challenge everywhere to one degree or another. 216 - > Right. 217 - > But let's let's jump into one thing that you mentioned a little bit, 218 - > the technology coming out of China and, and just generally staying with technology 219 - > for a moment. 220 - > Nick, what do you guys see from a magazine?

221 - > I know everybody's talking about, you know, how important a battery is for, 222 - > for an e-mobility, vehicle, whatever. 223 - > Heavy duty truck, medium duty truck, a passenger vehicle. 224 - > Everybody talks about either an E axle or just stick to E-Motor. 225 - > Right.

226 - > There's a lot of everybody knows, and everybody talks about this. 227 - > But from your perspective, from a publisher's perspective, what are some 228 - > other technologies that maybe not too many people are talking about? 229 - > But you see as much activity and maybe as much criticality for engineering people 230 - > working on it than than batteries, E motors and E axis materials. 231 - > source materials is probably the most important topic 232 - > that we talk about outside of batteries, outside of motors.

233 - > You know, when you're talking about increasing range and talking efficiency, 234 - > lightweighting is a huge issue. 235 - > You know, it's, making these vehicles lightweight so they can grow that much. 236 - > But then incorporating the same safety standards, you know, so I think then 237 - > that trickles down into every area that you just previously mentioned. 238 - > You know, it's about materials.

239 - > It's about safety as well. 240 - > I think sort of everyone's focused on the batteries 241 - > at the moment. 242 - > You know, that's where the dollar is. 243 - > It's where the pound is.

It's where the euro is. 244 - > Everyone's focused on the battery, and sometimes we lose that focus 245 - > on the other side of things. 246 - > But, you know, it's very easy to talk about it, 247 - > but it's it's the interior, you know, the interior of the vehicle 248 - > with the materials, but the seats are made 249 - > out of the interior. Yeah.

250 - > So I even the wheels come out, you know. 251 - > So I think the materials is probably the strongest points 252 - > in terms of technology development at the moment. 253 - > And that comes down from the raw materials to the intense material 254 - > that goes into the car. 255 - > So, yeah, I think that's probably the key area 256 - > that people need to focus on and what we see as well.

257 - > But then comes down into it into a thesis, you know, it's, it's 258 - > every single consideration that the engineer has to have 259 - > when they're producing these vehicles, you know, how are they going to bomb 260 - > the battery? You know, we've seen huge underfloor 261 - > batteries and now we're moving to, you know, batteries actually 262 - > being adapted to, to be installed in the body. 263 - > You know, not talking about the battery technology 264 - > It's the statements that we make that happen.

265 - > So yeah, we see a lot of movement in that material point of view. 266 - > You know, whether it's silicones, whether it's carbon fiber, 267 - > the list is endless, you know, and this is what's an exciting thing 268 - > about motility at the moment. 269 - > You know, it's it's it's not a done deal. 270 - > There's there's so many different areas of innovation and so many people 271 - > are coming through with great ideas, each that, funding is obviously a huge issue 272 - > when we come into these points, you know, it's 273 - > you can have a fantastic idea, some of the solutions that are coming 274 - > through, it's just far too expensive, you know, which is yeah, go back 275 - > to the cost point of these vehicles.

276 - > It's stopping the adoption, you know, so we have to get the costs 277 - > of the manufacturing that. 278 - > But to make these vehicles happen, we have to use these special materials 279 - > which are driving the cost stop, which, you know, two thirds, they say 280 - > the vehicle cost is the battery outside. 281 - > I'm not saying that corners are being cut, but there are, you know, areas 282 - > where the actual climates into that area of technology gets reduced. So 283 - > yeah, I mean, we we enjoy our articles on materials.

284 - > If you look back over our publications, every article, what we produce, 285 - > it goes down to the materials, you know, whether it's about modes 286 - > or whether it's about battery, whereas about axles or the vehicle 287 - > construction or any interesting, interesting difference between. 288 - > So if you if we go back to the, the, the true purpose of this podcast 289 - > on reimagining mobility, and you said your magazine 290 - > or this particular magazine has been it's being published since 2018.

291 - > So you've seen, let's say, six years of progression in e-mobility. 292 - > If we leave passenger vehicles alone for a moment 293 - > and leave it up to medium duty trucks, 294 - > heavy duty trucks, er, aerospace, agricultural, mining, 295 - > whatever it might be. 296 - > One of the most exciting areas you look towards again, 297 - > besides passenger vehicles as we talk e-mobility, is it, 298 - > is it in areas like forestry that very few people are talking about? 299 - > Oh, I need an electric.

300 - > I don't know what we got to do. 301 - > You know, a machine that cuts wood. 302 - > We need more electric, machines for working 303 - > in the mountains or whatever it is. 304 - > Interesting your perspective.

305 - > And again, from the demand, probably from your customers, 306 - > from the engineering field and what they want to see published, 307 - > as well as what you mentioned at the very beginning, 308 - > which I thought was interesting. 309 - > The purpose of your magazine is to try and bring e-mobility engineers 310 - > from different segments of the e-mobility space together and teach things. 311 - > So again, reimagining mobility. 312 - > What excites you the most outside of passenger vehicles 313 - > when we talk e-mobility and why?

314 - > Well, that's a fantastic point. 315 - > It's a great question and I get excited about this because 316 - > whenever someone sees the magazine, they understand we working in e-mobility 317 - > or EVs they just think cars they think the automotive industry. 318 - > But it it's so much bigger. 319 - > But you know, it's it starts with my partner, 320 - > you know, let's look at the scooters.

321 - > Let's look at that sort of publications on your personal watercraft. 322 - > Looking at some of the vehicles we've covered, we've gone 323 - > from snowmobiles, you know, going up to see the Northern Lights, 324 - > which covered excavators with the first issue 325 - > we ever published had the fifth show out for a lecture, 326 - > which is, a battery powered, you know, light aircraft. 327 - > To give you a little snapshot in one of the later editions this year, 328 - > we're actually having the Fortescue Liebherr Excavator mining thing, which is.

329 - > Yeah, the size of people's houses. 330 - > You know, this this is unbelievable engineering. 331 - > That's where our readers get cited, you know, as we talk about off of highway, 332 - > heavy duty, large construction machinery, people are excited because it goes back 333 - > to, you know, creating vehicles that have to endure rugged and harsh environments. 334 - > You know, I mean, we've just that actually covered a snow groomer 335 - > of all things, you know, that there were electrified snow groomers up on 336 - > the ski slopes day in, day out to the moments part project.

So 337 - > I think this is what a lot of people need to understand 338 - > is every area of vehicles is getting electrified. 339 - > You know, it doesn't stop with the passenger car as we stop 340 - > with the excavators, the medium duty lorries, it's absolutely everywhere. 341 - > And each industry, each vertical, has its own challenge. 342 - > Yeah.

343 - > No, it's, I mean, you look at today whose return to bet 344 - > batteries are fantastic solution for that. 345 - > But then you look at certain aspects, you know, as soon as you talk 346 - > about aviation, as soon as you start getting some light aircraft 347 - > up to larger aircraft, weight is your biggest issue. 348 - > You know, which it always has been, you know, so 349 - > the innovation there's a lot talk about hydrogen fuel cell. 350 - > So I think, you know, when we look at the different 351 - > areas of electrification, the bigger and the heavier.

352 - > I mean, to shift big shifts, you can you can put a lot 353 - > you can weigh those down and they keep on going. 354 - > But again, as we evolve mobility but gets electrified, 355 - > it has a direct impact on everyone's lives. 356 - > You know, people are living next to construction sites. 357 - > I mean, cities are still getting expand, is still getting built.

358 - > You know, if you're living next to one of those construction sites, 359 - > you don’t want to diggers going on, you don't want to hear the lorries 360 - > coming in and out. 361 - > So I think, yeah, that's one of the biggest areas of education from 362 - > a consumer point of view, is to understand it's not just about your cars. 363 - > You know, they're not just trying to get you 364 - > into your passenger vehicles, your battery vehicles to save the world. 365 - > It's it trickles down into absolutely every area.

366 - > I mean, marine, you know, you just have to watch 367 - > the demonstrations of how much combustion engines pollute the lakes 368 - > You know, there are so many lakes again, which have banned combustion engines. 369 - > It's just making the whole world an experience better for everyone. 370 - > You know, when you take the here, the motors going. 371 - > And people still love the sound of combustion.

372 - > You know, you can't get like this. 373 - > You just have to look at the racing world. 374 - > You know, people are boating. 375 - > I mean, takes take Formula One, for example.

376 - > Just moving off topic slightly. 377 - > You know, people moan the fans, but we're not having the screaming 3-10s. 378 - > You know, the V8 anymore , we've got the hybrid vehicles 379 - > because it goes faster. 380 - > It faster lap times when they ever done.

381 - > Isn't that sort of the sole purpose of the pinnacle of motorsport is, 382 - > is to push the boundaries, you know? 383 - > And that's exactly what engineers are doing at the moment. 384 - > That's really getting hold of how they can push the boundaries. 385 - > And making everything more efficient.

386 - > So yeah, it's a great topic looking outside of automotive, 387 - > and we get really excited about it. 388 - > The readers get really excited about it. 389 - > The manufacturers do as well. So gives you some insight into, you know, 390 - > I hate to use the phrase exciting time to go live, but where we are 391 - > so still at the beginning of this, you know, it's forestry is a huge area.

392 - > I mean, these machines that we've been using for years 393 - > and years and years have been pumping out noxious gases. 394 - > They've been damaging areas and now they can move slightly silently. 395 - > They could, you know, go into areas, but they haven't been able to before. 396 - > Yeah.

We're trying to conserve the world. 397 - > So why not do it in this way? 398 - > So yeah, big heavy duty is massive. 399 - > Massive part is for OEM and engineers and suppliers 400 - > and that's as you know it's there.

401 - > So you just touched upon your last sentence here engineering. 402 - > That's where I want to go next, at least for the next couple of minutes 403 - > until we wrap up. 404 - > Your magazine is for engineers. 405 - > I would like you to go to 2018 or 2019, right, 406 - > and share a little bit very, very shortly because again, 407 - > we're about reimagining things, but what we're engineers 408 - > mainly concerned about in 2018, 2019, when it comes to e-mobility, 409 - > what are they today and what is it going to be 410 - > as we reimagining mobility going forward?

411 - > And I'll give you an example. 412 - > I would say up until about 3 or 4 years ago, systems 413 - > engineering was nowhere near as big as it is today. 414 - > Today, I think more and more companies recognize that you can get more. 415 - > All the things we talked about today, you get more weight out of this vehicle.

416 - > You can get more range out of the vehicle, get more cost out of the vehicle. 417 - > When you look at a vehicle, instead of a bunch of Lego blocks 418 - > that you bring together and then put together and say, okay, here I go. 419 - > Mass produced this thing. 420 - > When you look at it from the beginning, from a complete systems perspective, 421 - > which means systems engineering, system integration, system 422 - > design, all the stuff system and then some engineering discipline 423 - > is becoming critical.

424 - > So but again, it's not my show right now. 425 - > It's yours. 426 - > What do you see in 18. 427 - > What do you see today?

428 - > And then most importantly, what do you see as we reimagining what 429 - > what's the next big topic engineers need to focus on? 430 - > So back in 2018, I think the overarching topic, 431 - > as I've mentioned, is back to, you know, every everyone's focusing on batteries. 432 - > So back in 2018, it was very much about the battery. 433 - > It's very much about the motors.

434 - > And again, the materials. 435 - > So over the past few years we've moved into safety. 436 - > You know, everyone's concerned about safety. 437 - > We've had a lot of success stories, whether they're false, 438 - > whether they're true.

439 - > You know, there are a lot of stories out there 440 - > about EVs spontaneously catching fire. 441 - > So we'll run away. 442 - > Those issues will never go away. 443 - > So over the past few years, we've seen from developing, using the best battery 444 - > cells, which you can never go away, but it's, you know, we're getting there, 445 - > we're getting towards solid state, we're getting towards fast charger.

446 - > We've then focused a lot on, as I say, safety. 447 - > You know, the biggest, topic that is thermal runaway, 448 - > you know, is that battery safety. 449 - > But we're now in software defined vehicles. 450 - > You know, we're now talking about cyber security.

451 - > You know, you've got to think about how these vehicles are. 452 - > You know, if we move away from the battery, the motors that the powertrain, 453 - > the whole experience of a driver, for an EV is very much 454 - > about the infotainment system, the accessibility. 455 - > You know, we've got a lot more distractions there. 456 - > But then we've got connect in vehicles, you know, so 457 - > there is a lot more going on where we talk about cyber security.

458 - > When we talk about software on vehicles, I think that's going to be the big focus 459 - > for the next few years. 460 - > You know, and this is one of the reasons why people said 461 - > they think people are going to hack into their vehicles, 462 - > you know, as they're driving down the freeway. 463 - > It's there have been a few examples of that in the past you know, so 464 - > that's probably the biggest thing is making vehicles safer, 465 - > not from a crash point of view.

466 - > You know, we've got fantastic in terms of producing vehicles with that. 467 - > But it's that accessibility from the outside, you know, making sure 468 - > everyone is safe. 469 - > And I think, you know, we're going to start to see people 470 - > move away from the infotainment system because there's a lot of talk 471 - > about distraction. 472 - > Like, you know, there is these huge, huge screens people are leaning over.

473 - > It's the whole, you know, used to be putting your CD in. 474 - > Now people are using their massive screens, access 475 - > windscreen wipers and stuff. 476 - > But, you know, we sort of two expect it to be distracted 477 - > when they're in charge of a two tone vehicle. 478 - > Let's be honest about that.

479 - > So but yeah, cyber security is probably one of the biggest issues 480 - > when people talk about, you know, vehicles comes from China. 481 - > I mean, they are software defined vehicles that very much riding on software 482 - > that is, you know, one of the biggest issues at the moment for engineers. 483 - > I've spoken. Okay, okay.

484 - > Great point. 485 - > And I agree software defined vehicle definitely is is the up and coming thing. 486 - > Domain controllers, essential compute platforms, all the stuff associated 487 - > I think at the end still a major systems challenge. 488 - > But to your point, the focus is shifting to to the software defined vehicles.

489 - > Great. Great ending. 490 - > So then the last question for you, Nick, nothing to do with with your magazine 491 - > or maybe what you're seeing, but what is going to be the next vehicle 492 - > you buy and why? 493 - > I don't know, to be honest.

494 - > That's that's a really hard questions that far out. 495 - > I mean possibly, you know, the, the way the, the frankly the magazine 496 - > or the, the industry, the for EV become mainstream. 497 - > There's a few vehicles I've got to check out, you know, 498 - > before that are available. 499 - > There's let's hear Porsches out there.

500 - > There's a few Mercedes. 501 - > But yeah, there's some of the hot hatches when I was young, 12, maybe three. 502 - > If I can convince my wife, we'll have one in the driveway again one day. 503 - > Yeah.

And it's. 504 - > Yeah, it's very. 505 - > I think that's a great point as well because we, you know, the used car 506 - > industry at the moment is booming. 507 - > You know, people are holding on to their vehicles, 508 - > because they don't know what's happening.

509 - > And they won't enjoy that combustion vehicle. 510 - > They want to hear that especially in the US, they want a roaring V8 511 - > just for their charge, you know, so I just for me, it's very tricky, 512 - > because we have a specialized use case with I mentioned, you know, 513 - > retiring horses around for our daughters to compete with. 514 - > So finding the right vehicle is hard. 515 - > For me, I would love it to be one of the overarching mindsets 516 - > for converted 911's.

517 - > You know, the what? 518 - > It probably doesn't agree. Or below all of that. 519 - > But yeah, I think that's a very difficult question to answer.

520 - > So I do have to say TV right now, but yeah, there's a few cars to to cross. 521 - > Minister. Perfect answer, I appreciate it. 522 - > Thank you so much, Nick, for your insight from from the magazine's 523 - > perspective, which is a unique perspective.

524 - > And also what you see not only in the UK but in Europe and globally. 525 - > So thank you very much for your insight.