Selling Less by Teaching More - KDE Technology

1 - > Russel: Welcome to An Agency Story podcast, where owners and 2 - > experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the 3 - > breakthrough moments, and everything in between. 4 - > I'm your host, Russel Dubree, former eight-figure agency owner 5 - > turned business coach, who sold my agency and now helps agency 6 - > leaders create their ideal business. 7 - > Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. 8 - > This is An Agency Story.

9 - > Welcome to the show today, everyone. 10 - > I have Tony Brown with KDE Technology with us here today. 11 - > Thank you so much for being on the show today, Tony. 12 - > Tony: Thank you for having me, Russel.

13 - > I appreciate it, sir. 14 - > Russel: Well, glad to get started. 15 - > We overcame quite the technological challenges to have 16 - > this conversation, but, we're excited to talk about all the 17 - > fascinating things about your business today. 18 - > Tony: Indeed.

19 - > Yeah. 20 - > If, we hadn't started off with some sort of technical problem, 21 - > were we really doing a virtual meeting, I mean, honestly? 22 - > Russel: Absolutely. 23 - > Absolutely.

24 - > It's, it's there to humble us and remind us every step of the 25 - > way. 26 - > Well, if you don't mind, just kick us off and tell us what KDE 27 - > Technology does and who you do it for. 28 - > Tony: Absolutely. 29 - > KDE Technology is a full-service design firm located in 30 - > Charleston, West Virginia.

31 - > We primarily do fully custom websites, digital marketing, we 32 - > do a lot of graphics and some cybersecurity work. 33 - > We've got, uh, a team of 14 total. 34 - > We've got three offices, uh, in... 35 - > One, one in Charleston, our headquarters, one in Huntington, 36 - > West Virginia, one in Columbus, Ohio.

37 - > We've got clients all over the United States. 38 - > I believe we've... 39 - > We're in about 17 states, I wanna say. 40 - > Primarily, we're focused here at home.

41 - > Uh, about 80% of our clients are in the state of West Virginia. 42 - > Um, but we do a lot of very high-end web development. 43 - > So we've got your local coffee shop and things like that, but 44 - > where we really flex our muscles is we, uh, we have a full stack 45 - > development team, and then in the past few years, we've 46 - > really, uh, piled on a lot of digital marketing as well. 47 - > We do a lot of Google business setup and management, a lot of 48 - > social media setup and management, a lot of content 49 - > generation, um, and then of course, a ton of branding.

50 - > Russel: That is fascinating, and can't wait to hear, uh, more 51 - > about it. 52 - > Before we hear more about how you do all that and how you got 53 - > to where you're at today, I want to hear the story of young Tony 54 - > and how and where he came up in the world, and we'll get to all 55 - > that agency stuff later 56 - > Tony: Sure. 57 - > So I was born in Charleston, um, so literally right down the 58 - > street from our offices now. 59 - > I've lived in, I guess, three, four states, something like 60 - > that.

61 - > Always end up finding my way back home. 62 - > This is a, a theme in West Virginia. 63 - > If you- Yeah if you talk to a West Virginian, you'll hear 64 - > this, uh, routinely. 65 - > Um,"Well, I left, but I somehow ended back here."

Absolutely. 66 - > Um, and that, that happens pretty often. 67 - > I think we've... 68 - > West Virginians have deep roots, so y- frequently we do, we do 69 - > end up back here.

70 - > And I enjoy the fact that I get to, uh, do what I do in 71 - > Charleston for the city that I was born in. 72 - > I would've never honestly dreamed that this is what I 73 - > would be doing. 74 - > When I was very young, I wanted to be a writer. 75 - > That was, like, my...

76 - > You know, when you're a kid and you wanna be an astronaut- Yeah 77 - > or you wanna be a, a police officer or whatever, the 78 - > earliest memory I can have of wanting to be a, a, you know, 79 - > something, wanting to do something for my career was 80 - > writing. 81 - > I love to write. 82 - > I actually generate a ton of our content here, uh, with KD 83 - > Technology because it's a, a natural skill of mine. 84 - > But, I've really parlayed the, the writing desire into 85 - > communication.

86 - > Um, so a lot of what I've done throughout my life and in KD 87 - > Technology has been communicative, whether it's 88 - > public speaking or training or sales, lots of different things. 89 - > I was a rambunctious kid. 90 - > I, I- got hurt a lot. 91 - > I was kinda wild.

92 - > Also a theme in West Virginia, our, um, moniker is, is wild and 93 - > wonderful. 94 - > So I mean- Okay i've lived up to it. 95 - > I've broken about every bone you could break. 96 - > I've been- Oh the ho- uh, my mom used to joke the hospital knew 97 - > me on a first name basis.

98 - > Um- I got 99 - > Russel: hurt a lot. 100 - > That sounds expensive. 101 - > Tony: Getting cut in creeks and just living a very, you know, 102 - > uh, outdoors childhood. 103 - > Still love the outdoors.

104 - > We still do, uh, a lot of outdoor stuff here. 105 - > For a tech company, I think that's very important. 106 - > You know, we, you and I spend a lot of our time behind a desk or 107 - > in an office inside. 108 - > And we're always plugged in, right?

109 - > We are always plugged in, so I think it's good for us to 110 - > literally unplug. 111 - > Um, so we still enjoy doing that. 112 - > I've done that throughout my life, and still very much enjoy 113 - > completely detaching from internet, from phones, from all 114 - > the things, going on a hike or hitting the river, something 115 - > like that to decompress. 116 - > We had a very high, I really don't wanna say a high-stress 117 - > job, but it kind of is.

118 - > Um- 119 - > Russel: It is a little bit. 120 - > That's, uh, that's fair to say we're 121 - > Tony: results driven. 122 - > Yeah. 123 - > What, what we do is results driven, so it's, you know, we're 124 - > constantly having to perform, if you will.

125 - > Meet a goal, meet a goal, meet a goal, surpass that goal, surpass 126 - > that goal. 127 - > You know, and that can become exhausting at times. 128 - > So it's great to be able to pull back on that a little bit on 129 - > occasion, and completely detach and unwind, and sort of get back 130 - > to my roots as a child and, um, growing up in rural West 131 - > Virginia. 132 - > It is very rural here.

133 - > I don't know if you've been to West Virginia- I have not, no or 134 - > if any of your listeners have been to West Virginia, but it is 135 - > a lot of what you heard. 136 - > Fair enough. 137 - > Very rural. 138 - > You know, mountains, and I mean, we've still got almost entire 139 - > counties that don't have broadband internet, so it, it's 140 - > still pretty rural in many places here.

141 - > Fortunately, we're in the capital city, Charleston, um, so 142 - > you know, we don't experience many of the hardships that a lot 143 - > of West Virginians do. 144 - > You know, but we're all from the same state, so you know, we, I 145 - > feel the pain, um- Yeah of my, my neighbors and am happy that I 146 - > now have the opportunity to give back in a lot of ways to these 147 - > people, to the, to the businesses because, you know, 148 - > that's, I mean, that's really what I do every day.

149 - > I wake up and help other people make money. 150 - > Yeah. 151 - > You know, or save time, do other things too, but the main thing 152 - > they like to do is make money. 153 - > Russel: That's, that's great.

154 - > I love to hear that. 155 - > I mean, that's what we're here, we're here in the world to help. 156 - > I'm just curious, when you were a kid, is the building your 157 - > office is in, was it around when you were young? 158 - > Tony: It absolutely was, yes.

159 - > Um, yeah. 160 - > I don't know exactly what was in this particular office. 161 - > We're in a very large building downtown. 162 - > It's almost an entire block.

163 - > So there's, like, residential places upstairs. 164 - > There's businesses on each side. 165 - > There's businesses on the backside. 166 - > So I don't recall exactly what was here, but this is a 167 - > historical building.

168 - > It's actually been here, my partner would know probably 169 - > almost down to the year,'cause he's a freak like that, but I 170 - > would say it's been here since the 1800s. 171 - > Russel: Okay. 172 - > Definitely there then, yeah. 173 - > Yeah.

174 - > I don't think you go back to the 1800s, but... 175 - > Yeah, that'd be really cool. 176 - > I grew up in a really small town But, if I had a business there, 177 - > just the memories of young Rusty, going by what was to be 178 - > his future business, I think that would be, that'd be a 179 - > pretty cool scene or, or spot, uh- It's pretty cool. 180 - > Yeah yeah.

181 - > There's 182 - > Tony: a lot of nostalgia that we have doing business here in, 183 - > literally in the places where we used to ride bikes, and we used 184 - > to play in the park, and we... 185 - > You know what I mean? 186 - > Like right down the street. 187 - > It, it's pretty cool.

188 - > I mean, one of my favorite things about what we do is that 189 - > we genuinely get to Help in our community with things that we 190 - > would have very much benefited from when we were kids. 191 - > Lee also, my business partner, also grew up here right in 192 - > Charleston, in downtown Charleston on the west side, 193 - > and, we know the struggle. 194 - > We, we had difficult lives growing up. 195 - > We were poor.

196 - > We, we've really had to scratch and claw to get where we're at, 197 - > both of us. 198 - > Um, and it's, it's probably the most rewarding thing that I get 199 - > to do is to give back to my community, the kids that, are in 200 - > the place that we used to be 35 years ago. 201 - > It's, it's Very few things make me as happy as that when it 202 - > comes to work. 203 - > Russel: That's awesome.

204 - > That's cool. 205 - > Well, w- I wanna, I wanna talk more about that, but I wanna 206 - > continue down our story line here. 207 - > And, uh, as I understand it, you had a career in government, and 208 - > clearly something happened at some point for you to wanna, get 209 - > out of the private sector, the work for someone else sector and 210 - > start your own business. 211 - > What led up to that?

212 - > How did... 213 - > where did that moment occur in your journey? 214 - > Tony: Yeah. 215 - > So, uh, going back to when I was a young adult, I actually 216 - > dropped out of high school right before I would have graduated, 217 - > which was a, a terrible mistake, but I did that a- as part of 218 - > some family things that were going on.

219 - > We moved my senior year, like six hours from home. 220 - > The, uh, requirements in my new state were s- way more 221 - > stringent, so I was going to actually have to go an extra 222 - > year of school, and I was like, "I'm not doing that." I was 223 - > ready to graduate. 224 - > My...

225 - > I was mad at my parents. 226 - > You know, they yanked me from home and gonna make me, go an 227 - > extra year of school somewhere. 228 - > Uh, so within a few months I had my GED, um, about the same time 229 - > I would've graduated. 230 - > Uh, ended up going to college, got two degrees.

231 - > I got a degree in human resources management and 232 - > business management, and after graduation, I went directly into 233 - > the private sector and started... 234 - > Well, first I was in restaurant management, which is brutal. 235 - > My goodness. 236 - > I bet.

237 - > If you ever want to test your resolve, go be a restaurant 238 - > manager. 239 - > Wow. 240 - > I have a lot of respect for those folks. 241 - > So I did that for about six months to a year, after about a 242 - > decade of working my way around private sector management, I 243 - > moved to the state of West Virginia, and got a job with the 244 - > state of West Virginia.

245 - > I did about another 10 years, 10-year bid in the government 246 - > here in West Virginia as a public sector employee. 247 - > Worked all through human resources, business management. 248 - > Virtually everything you could do in those two fields, in, in 249 - > management and HR, I did it in the state of West Virginia. 250 - > And at about the...

251 - > It was actually about nine years, I wanna say. 252 - > My business partner I mentioned earlier reached out and had been 253 - > doing, uh, websites on the side. 254 - > Um, at the time I was working at, the DEP, actually, and he 255 - > reached out and was like,"Hey, man, I think I either need to 256 - > lean into this or I, I gotta abandon it? 257 - > It's gotten so big now that I can't really properly manage the 258 - > things that I've done for people, and I didn't really 259 - > wanna get into managing websites anyway.

260 - > I just kinda wanted to design them and give them to somebody 261 - > and, and, you know. 262 - > So would you be interested? 263 - > And we'd known each other since we were kids. 264 - > We're very, very close, like brothers.

265 - > And, uh, I thought about it and I, I wanna say maybe a day or 266 - > two, and then I reached out and was like,"You know what? 267 - > Let's do it. 268 - > I'ma, I'ma jump off a financial cliff and we're gonna do this 269 - > thing." Uh, that was November of 2017.

270 - > And- Okay. 271 - > Russel: Did you just quit cold turkey? 272 - > This is 273 - > Tony: the- Just quit cold turkey. 274 - > Oh my gosh.

275 - > Yeah. 276 - > Uh, left my very secure, very stable state job. 277 - > The old adage in West Virginia is, uh, if you're a state 278 - > employee, once you're hired you're never fired. 279 - > So- um, I left that very, very- 280 - > Russel: That might be every state for that 281 - > Tony: matter job, um, to do this crazy thing that we're doing 282 - > now.

283 - > But man, it's been, it's been phenomenal. 284 - > I, I don't regret it. 285 - > Um, not that there haven't been days that I haven't regretted 286 - > it,'cause there certainly have, but never truly, though. 287 - > Uh, honestly, this is exactly what I wanna be doing.

288 - > W- I love it. 289 - > I love it More than I could express, honestly 290 - > Russel: Yeah. 291 - > I can tell. 292 - > Your passion certainly comes through.

293 - > And I, I mean, so it sounded like you were jumping in a space 294 - > you really didn't have a, a fundamental, Maybe you had a 295 - > fundamental understanding, but it wasn't your core area of 296 - > expertise or skill set. 297 - > What was that part of it like? 298 - > Tony: Yeah. 299 - > I, so when I came into KDE Technology, I had virtually no 300 - > knowledge on websites or marketing.

301 - > You know, I, I... 302 - > Lee brought me in because he'd known me for, 30 years or 303 - > whatever at the time. 304 - > He trusted me. 305 - > He knows that I'm good at business.

306 - > The skills that I have in, in business in general, people 307 - > skills, communicative skills, he has confidence in those skills 308 - > and that I could parlay those into the skills that I would 309 - > need in order to properly run a digital marketing and web 310 - > development company. 311 - > Fortunately, he was right. 312 - > I spent probably my first six months or so learning everything 313 - > about web development with Lee. 314 - > He's an expert in web development, had been doing it 315 - > for decades, um, and had been tasked with basically teaching 316 - > someone enough about it to be able to sell it, to be able to 317 - > educate people on the difference.

318 - > One of our biggest challenges in this company has been that we're 319 - > creating technical projects that are at the forefront of 320 - > technology in a state that's about 10 years behind in 321 - > technology. 322 - > So there's a massive educational gap in West Virginia, uh, that 323 - > has been probably the single most difficult thing to educate 324 - > people on in this state, is that doing it different and there's a 325 - > good reason why, and you should care.

326 - > You should care about the quality of a website. 327 - > It matters a lot. 328 - > Your digital presence matters a lot. 329 - > Digital marketing, will more likely determine your success as 330 - > a business in 2026 than your ability to do the thing that 331 - > you're passionate about I, I feel very strong about that.

332 - > Because in 2026, it's really not just about doing a good job and 333 - > offering a good service. 334 - > There's so much more to the success of a business now 335 - > because of the way the world works, right? 336 - > Because we're all online, because if we go to a new city 337 - > and we want a steak, we go to Google to find out where that 338 - > steak is at. 339 - > Like, we've, we've just shifted the way that we shop, the way 340 - > that we operate, the way that we choose a business or, or 341 - > whatever it is, and businesses either adapt or they get left 342 - > behind.

343 - > And we're in a state where most businesses are literally just 344 - > now starting to adapt. 345 - > They kinda had to be dragged into to this digital age kicking 346 - > and screaming. 347 - > Wow. 348 - > Okay, yeah.

349 - > Well, yes, sir, they're correct. 350 - > So there's been a lot of that for us and, the education piece, 351 - > me getting educated first from Lee about how all this works, 352 - > um, and then me having to take that and run with it and 353 - > re-educate other people, it's been a fascinating aspect of 354 - > this business and us growing it and how we've gotten to where 355 - > we're at. 356 - > It's, uh It's honestly probably the thing that I least expected. 357 - > I, I didn't realize that in doing this, I would become more 358 - > of an educator than a salesperson.

359 - > Russel: Well, it's funny, the similarities in our story,'cause 360 - > I think I was the exact same as you and started - Seems like 361 - > everything's just in a ten-year shift here. 362 - > I started in'06. 363 - > Pretty sure I couldn't even set up a computer back then, and had 364 - > to go through a same level of education process. 365 - > And then, right,'06, I think we were having some of that same 366 - > challenge of, right, getting folks just even open to the idea 367 - > of what digital could be and how they need to do it and leverage 368 - > it in their business.

369 - > So that, that resonates a lot. 370 - > But it, it's interesting in hearing you talk through th-this 371 - > challenge of education. 372 - > It really sounds like the problem agencies face 373 - > everywhere, that clients just, just different starting point 374 - > perhaps, but clients often don't know exactly what they need, or 375 - > they might arrive what they think they need, in maybe less 376 - > than correct ways. 377 - > But probably can ask anybody, and everybody knows their goal, 378 - > and our job is to help educate and share, what is important for 379 - > them to, to achieve that goal and how we assist in that 380 - > process.

381 - > So differences, but similarities all the same as I'm sitting 382 - > here, you telling that story. 383 - > Have you been able to do that education piece on more of I 384 - > guess you'd call it mass scale, or are you just always having to 385 - > do that in one-to-one conversations with your 386 - > potential clients? 387 - > Tony: So we have. 388 - > Um, I'm actually very, very happy about where we've gone 389 - > with sort of mass scale training, if you will.

390 - > Over the last, uh, I wanna say three years, that's about, about 391 - > right, we've had this office space that I'm talking to you 392 - > from right now, and this is 1,600 square foot on Hale Street 393 - > in downtown Charleston, our capital city. 394 - > This actually has been multi-purposed into a training 395 - > facility. 396 - > So we actually do trainings on things like, what's a logo and 397 - > why? 398 - > What's the difference between a template website and a custom 399 - > website, and why does it matter?

400 - > Uh, we do cybersecurity training. 401 - > We, we just did, training with the company about, password 402 - > management and to- the importance of 2FA and mult- 403 - > multi-factor authentication. 404 - > We now are, in the last few years, getting to a point where, 405 - > yes, we can train 25 people at a time, or we've gotten linked up 406 - > with a lot of local networking places like, alliances and 407 - > chambers and things of that nature. 408 - > So we've partnered with, the SBDC, SBA, and other places of, 409 - > similar nature so that we can offer trainings for them as 410 - > well.

411 - > So we'll do things like, we did a lunch and learn a few months 412 - > ago where the, Charleston Chamber, actually it was the 413 - > Huntington Chamber, they set it all up. 414 - > They just have us come in and teach the class. 415 - > We just send them a presentation. 416 - > We come in and we teach, I think, I wanna say there were 70 417 - > people there.

418 - > It was a huge class, but it was awesome. 419 - > We did, an AI prompting class. 420 - > We actually have, my business partner's an AI expert as well, 421 - > so we do a lot of training in AI. 422 - > So that was super fun, but it's been great to be able to do that 423 - > on more of a mass scale.

424 - > I still very much enjoy the one-on-one and getting, really 425 - > into the weeds with someone, but w- we've done it so much now, so 426 - > much trainings, we just... 427 - > You know, we've built so many websites. 428 - > We manage so many social media accounts. 429 - > We've done so much of it that we've really lasered it in so 430 - > that it is, I don't wanna say just as effective for me to 431 - > train 25 people at a time as, as for me to sit down with just 432 - > you, but it's much more effective than it would've been 433 - > five or six years ago for me to try to accomplish that when I 434 - > was, honestly still trying to figure some of it out myself.

435 - > Russel: Right. 436 - > Tony: So that's, that's been a great, upgrade for us with 437 - > regard to the educational aspect. 438 - > Russel: Yeah. 439 - > Well, I mean, it's always great to hear stories of when you can 440 - > scale in any aspect of the business from one-to-one to 441 - > one-to-many to, one, have more impact.

442 - > I mean, I just imagine just, getting your voice out there, 443 - > sharing this expertise and experience, ties really back to 444 - > this passion you talked about earlier of small businesses and 445 - > everything. 446 - > And, and if it leads to the opportunity to serve in more 447 - > meaningful ways, great, and if it's not, you're, you're just 448 - > creating an all-around better ecosystem. 449 - > Um, so I lo- love to see this in action 450 - > Tony: Yeah, we love doing it.

451 - > It's, uh, it's fun. 452 - > M- most days it's fun. 453 - > Russel: Yeah. 454 - > I, I can feel that.

455 - > You know, it's, I probably mentioned this too many times on 456 - > the podcast at this point, but, uh, look, business is nothing 457 - > more than waking up every day, getting kicked between the legs, 458 - > and doing it the next day, and you learn, you grow, and you 459 - > find out a little bit more about yourself and others in the 460 - > process. 461 - > Tony: I, I completely agree. 462 - > I mean, that's a very good assessment. 463 - > Russel: Yeah.

464 - > Yeah. 465 - > Well, a, a lived as- a lived assessment, a lived experience 466 - > for certain on, on my part as well. 467 - > One Of the things that you've talked about is some of the 468 - > challenges in, in economically in the area that you're in. 469 - > As you've come up through the years now, what else has been 470 - > tough, or what's been one of the most toughest or frustrating 471 - > moments in your journey?

472 - > Tony: Well, I think, and this probably speaks to all business, 473 - > but scaling is very difficult. 474 - > I truly think it, as someone who's now got nearly 30 years in 475 - > business, it, it might be what I personally consider to be the 476 - > most difficult part of business is scaling it. 477 - > Figuring out a good product or a good service and then figuring 478 - > out your, target audience and then delivering that can be 479 - > challenging, but taking that s- that thing that you've 480 - > successfully done, you figured out your product or service, 481 - > you've delivered it, and then turning that into, our, from our 482 - > two-man team to our 14-person team, oh, it is a challenge.

483 - > People are... 484 - > we're all unique and we're all interesting, and we have these 485 - > quirks about us and piecing people together to make a 486 - > successful team, to make a successful, even just a, a 487 - > project team, but it, it can be very difficult, having different 488 - > personalities and different, some people are early, some 489 - > people are late, some people, you know, are, are visual 490 - > learners, and some people need to read it. 491 - > And it, it just, there's so many, uh, different 492 - > characteristics that go into a successful team, and I think 493 - > it's extremely important and difficult to piece that together 494 - > in such a way that it truly does run like a well-oiled machine, 495 - > and everyone understands their role and everyone else's role, 496 - > and it's all symbiotic.

497 - > And, for the most part, we're always moving f- the same 498 - > direction at the same speed. 499 - > It's a beautiful thing. 500 - > It's art, to be quite honest, to accomplish, but it is 501 - > challenging. 502 - > I mean, it's taken us, again, I, I like to mi- to think of myself 503 - > as, pretty much an expert in business and human resources.

504 - > It, I could hire and manage 1,000 more people and 1,001 505 - > would still be tricky because that, that person is their own 506 - > person. 507 - > You're you and there's not a single other person quite like 508 - > you, even though there might be some people that from a distance 509 - > you look like, you know, their doppelganger. 510 - > So trying to take all that and, and piece it together, it's, um, 511 - > it's tricky. 512 - > It's, it's, uh...

513 - > But we now have what I consider to be the best team I've ever 514 - > been a part of. 515 - > And I've been a part of a lot of teams, and I've pieced many of 516 - > them together. 517 - > Most probably. 518 - > But the staff that we have currently, I, man, these people 519 - > are like family.

520 - > I, I, I, I love them. 521 - > I mean, I truly, like, adore our staff. 522 - > Uh, and we, we cannot function without every single person. 523 - > And we, I try to make sure that they all know because it's, it, 524 - > again, it's very difficult.

525 - > It, it's hard to get the perfect team. 526 - > Um, and I do feel like a- a- at just eight, nine years in, we 527 - > finally got it. 528 - > Russel: What's the biggest lesson you've learned in, in the 529 - > process to even be able to get to where you're at today? 530 - > Tony: Oh, gosh.

531 - > The biggest lesson, probably the biggest lesson that I have 532 - > learned is that- No matter how much I believe I already know 533 - > about a thing, there's always something to learn. 534 - > I, again, self-proclaimed, business and human resources 535 - > expert, there is rarely a day that goes by that I don't learn 536 - > something about those industries. 537 - > And, and I really do like to think of myself as one of the 538 - > best i- in this area in those things.

539 - > I've done them just ad nauseam, and it's very important to me 540 - > to, to do it right, to do it well. 541 - > But man alive, there's not a week that goes by that I don't 542 - > make, uh, the lion's share of mistakes. 543 - > Lee and I like to frequently say, like,"If you're not making 544 - > mistakes, you're not trying enough things. 545 - > You're not doing enough things.

546 - > You're not pioneering, you're not trailblazing, you're not 547 - > doing something new. 548 - > You're just doing the same old thing that's been done. 549 - > You're, you're staying safe, staying inside your little box, 550 - > inside your little container, and that's not growth." So, with 551 - > growth comes error, comes mistake, and it's been...

552 - > you may have picked up on this at this point, but I'm a little 553 - > bit of a, a know-it-all. 554 - > I, I see a thing, I'm like,"Oh, I have interest in that thing." 555 - > I try to learn everything there is to learn about that thing. 556 - > I wanna know that thing inside and out.

557 - > I wanna know how it works backwards. 558 - > I wanna be able to reverse engineer it. 559 - > I wanna know all there is to know about the thing. 560 - > But the truth is, and this is that, that part that's been hard 561 - > for me to...

562 - > The big challenge is I'll never know all there is to know about 563 - > the thing. 564 - > I'll never know all there is to know about the thing. 565 - > Yeah. 566 - > So I gotta consistently remind myself of that.

567 - > Like,"Oh, Tony, you still got stuff to learn, buddy." Yeah. 568 - > Every day you still got more to learn. 569 - > Russel: Yeah.

570 - > Well, the business will always give us a stark reminder, in 571 - > different ways that, we all have more to learn. 572 - > But, the ability to recognize that, is, important in and of 573 - > itself that, there is more to learn and we're just on that 574 - > journey. 575 - > It's funny, as you were talking earlier about this whole human 576 - > thing, and I've always said that, is that, agencies are m- a 577 - > very difficult business, if only because there's just lots of 578 - > humans involved in the process, from us to our team to the 579 - > clients, their team, their clients' clients.

580 - > I don't know. 581 - > It's making me think of the saying, you might have heard of 582 - > herding cats. 583 - > I think that saying might need to be switched to herding humans 584 - > is the more difficult, um- Yeah. 585 - > Agreed analogy than cats.

586 - > Cats might be easy when it comes to the agency business. 587 - > Tony: Yeah, I think that's probably true. 588 - > Cats get cocky too, so 589 - > Russel: That is true. 590 - > That is really true.

591 - > That would be... 592 - > I feel like you could have a whole TikTok page just devoted 593 - > to, uh, trying to herd cats. 594 - > Tony: Cat- 595 - > Russel: Um, cat herding business. 596 - > Um, well, you know, you talked about too, right, scaling is a 597 - > challenge, and I, I think, I think there are a lot of moving 598 - > parts.

599 - > There are a lot of humans. 600 - > That can be a hard thing to scale. 601 - > But obviously you're on this track it sounds like, and, and 602 - > if I understand correctly, to, to move beyond your borders and 603 - > expand the business to other geographic areas. 604 - > What does that look like for you?

605 - > What is the goal with that, and where are you at so far in that 606 - > journey? 607 - > Tony: So our plan, i- which it is, it's a mountain to climb, 608 - > but- uh, our plan is to become a, a household name in web 609 - > development and digital marketing, cybersecurity as 610 - > well. 611 - > We aim to have offices throughout the United States. 612 - > We've got these three in the east right now, but we want to 613 - > have, places out west, places down south, places up north, and 614 - > essentially create a canvas, a network of offices and employees 615 - > rinsing and repeating what we've been able to accomplish here in 616 - > Charleston, West Virginia, uh, with regard to, you know, 617 - > helping businesses increase sales, save time, secure what 618 - > they have, uh, already earned, and do that on a scale that 619 - > quite literally, has us a, a GoDaddy one day or a Bluehost or 620 - > a HostGator, someone that is, again, a, like a household name.

621 - > We, at the beginning of this call, I mentioned that, if 622 - > someone wants WordPress, we can build you WordPress. 623 - > Well, I, I want to be known like that. 624 - > I believe this company can achieve that level of notoriety, 625 - > at some point. 626 - > We're Google Premium partners.

627 - > I, I've been in calls with Google where they've said things 628 - > to us like,"It's not supposed to work like that. 629 - > How did you make it work like that?" That's a... 630 - > I mean, my jaw's hitting the floor.

631 - > When Google looks at you and says,"Hey, Mr. 632 - > Engineer, we designed this thing. 633 - > We designed this thing. 634 - > You figured out how to make it work in a way that we didn't 635 - > design it to work in.

636 - > Could you show us that? 637 - > Could you teach us how you made it do that thing?" It's, that is 638 - > like, you know what? 639 - > I'll, I'll be remembering that, Google.

640 - > I'll be remembering that. 641 - > And one day we'll get to the point where, we'll be that, that 642 - > level of, I don't know about Google, but w- we'll be at a 643 - > level where, that sort of education will be en masse 644 - > because we are so large and we have so many, offices and 645 - > employees and, hopefully hundreds of employees at some 646 - > point in time, that we can take what we've been able to do here 647 - > in this tiny little place and duplicate it, metropolitan areas 648 - > all over the United States and help so many businesses achieve 649 - > goals that I believe many probably thought were either 650 - > unachievable or just more work than they were willing or able 651 - > to put in.

652 - > Russel: Now, well, I've got your new tagline. 653 - > Google calls us. 654 - > There, there- I love it there you go. 655 - > Tony: Kick.

656 - > Russel: Yes. 657 - > Um, that, uh, that, that'll get some people in the door. 658 - > Man, I love to hear a, a big goal. 659 - > I, I honestly think back to my own journey and probably had, a 660 - > similar goal that, just the pathway didn't eventually make 661 - > sense to pursue that.

662 - > But, that's an amazing goal, and you wanna help businesses, and 663 - > so the, the bigger and more places you can be and showing up 664 - > that way is gonna have a, a wonderful effect, and I can't 665 - > wait to see how that journey plays out for you. 666 - > One last big question for you, Tony, is, are entrepreneurs born 667 - > or are they made? 668 - > Tony: So, uh, I, I love this question. 669 - > Never, uh, heard it or been asked this question.

670 - > I believe entrepreneurs are born and made. 671 - > I believe that as with many other things in life, a lot of 672 - > people are born with the traits that, can be nurtured and 673 - > polished into an entrepreneurial spirit, right? 674 - > Th- Maybe you've got, you just came out of the womb with a set 675 - > of traits that would make it, that would facilitate you 676 - > becoming an entrepreneur, being your own boss, running things. 677 - > I think a lot of times these folks lean in, and they do 678 - > become industry leaders, they become business owners, and I 679 - > think sometimes they choose a different path.

680 - > Uh, they end up with a family or whatever it is, and, someone 681 - > that maybe could have been, uh, the next Steve Jobs, had five 682 - > kids instead and went a different route and is doing 683 - > something else. 684 - > Likewise, I think that there are folks that thought they would 685 - > never own a business, that, they didn't wanna be other people's 686 - > boss, that they, are happy just, with the status quo or just 687 - > getting my paycheck or whatever it is.

688 - > And then something in life happens or a change in mindset 689 - > occurs, whatever it is, and then through hard work and 690 - > determination, they develop the necessary skills to become an 691 - > entrepreneur. 692 - > I truly do think that, that it's both. 693 - > Russel: Yeah. 694 - > I tend to agree with that, that, uh, it can work either way and, 695 - > but to ultimately be successful, yeah, your path h- has to be 696 - > made.

697 - > So great answer there. 698 - > If people wanna know more about KDE Technology, where can they 699 - > go? 700 - > Tony: Our website is very, very simple. 701 - > It's kde.

technology. 702 - > You can also go to kdetechnology.com, but we love 703 - > the kde.technology.

704 - > It's su- super simple. 705 - > We have a ton of information on our website about our products, 706 - > our services. 707 - > You'll see my face on there, a little bit about me, lots of, 708 - > uh, examples of our work. 709 - > Just a, a lot of information on our website.

710 - > We have pricing online, which is very unusual, um, in our 711 - > industry, that we have just stated pricing for most of what 712 - > we do, um, which we find is, is, is very unique. 713 - > You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. 714 - > Uh, we've got, like I said, offices in Charleston, West 715 - > Virginia, Huntington, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. 716 - > Russel: Nice.

717 - > Wonderful. 718 - > All right, folks. 719 - > Well, you know where to go, and, for those listening, you can 720 - > always go to anagencystory.com/podcast, find 721 - > this episode with Tony, and the links to all that will be there, 722 - > as well as a recap of this episode, and you can listen to 723 - > it there as well, as well as any of your favorite podcast apps.

724 - > Well, Mr. 725 - > Tony, man, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your 726 - > schedule to share so many wonderful insights that really 727 - > that, probably our most important role in this business 728 - > is, component of education, and we have to do that for our 729 - > customers, that, mistakes will happen along this journey and 730 - > the difficulties and challenges of navigating herding humans. 731 - > Really appreciate y'all taking the time to share all that with 732 - > us today.

733 - > Tony: Yeah, of course. 734 - > I appreciate you very much for having me, Russel. 735 - > Thanks for reaching out. 736 - > Uh, it's, it's been a pleasure.

737 - > Russel: Likewise. 738 - > Likewise Thank you for listening to An Agency Story podcast, 739 - > where every story helps write your own. 740 - > Subscribe, share, and join us again for more real stories, 741 - > lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. 742 - > What's next?

743 - > You'll want to visit anagencystory.com/podcast and 744 - > follow us on Instagram @anagencystory for the latest 745 - > updates. 746 - > Tony: Some of the, you know, quote,"negative" things that 747 - > have happened have actually been phenomenal for us. 748 - > I mentioned earlier that, you know, Lee...

749 - > This was really Lee's business in the beginning. 750 - > He was doing it on the side. 751 - > He had me come in, my business partner, and I sort of picked it 752 - > up and ran with it. 753 - > Well, he, for the first, I don't know, up until September of last 754 - > year, he maintained a day job.

755 - > The, the job that he had when we started this thing, he kept that 756 - > job. 757 - > I did not. 758 - > I left my cushy state job and, and did nothing but this. 759 - > So that worked pretty well for us for about seven years, and 760 - > then we've got a whole team of developers.

761 - > We've got network guys, database guys. 762 - > I mean, we've got... 763 - > There's... 764 - > It's a lot.

765 - > It's a lot happening. 766 - > I'm managing, like, four people on my side, and he's got twice 767 - > as many on his side, and he's trying to manage those while 768 - > doing a, a pretty intense day job that's, 40, 50 hours a week 769 - > on a good week. 770 - > Last summer, honestly about this time last summer, I had gotten 771 - > to the point where I thought,"I don't know if I can mentally 772 - > take this anymore." We've got, servers crashing that have never 773 - > crashed.

774 - > We've got websites crashing that have never crashed. 775 - > Like, all these little things kept piling up, and I reach out 776 - > and I'm like,"Lee, look, man, if we, if we don't get you on 777 - > board, if we don't find a way to get you on board, we're, we're 778 - > gonna tank. 779 - > And life served us up a curveball in him having, uh, 780 - > lost that job in September of last year. 781 - > I initially, I'm super excited.

782 - > I'm like,"Oh, my God, all my, all my prayers are answered. 783 - > Uh, Lee's coming on board, it's gonna fix everything." The thing 784 - > that I hadn't thought about, Russel, is Lee comes with a 785 - > salary And his salary is very similar to mine. 786 - > In fact, it's identical.

787 - > So overnight, while one problem was basically solved, a 788 - > brand-new problem that I hadn't even really considered yet was 789 - > on the horizon. 790 - > So he came on, he immediately solved all those problems, um, 791 - > but then we had this glaring, huge money problem. 792 - > Well, within, uh, I would say another month or so of that 793 - > nearly ending me, things started clicking and, and all the 794 - > promises I'd been telling Lee forever, like,"I promise if you 795 - > just come on board, we'll figure out how to make it work."

And 796 - > now, after having gone through probably what I would consider 797 - > one of the most difficult years we had for two different 798 - > reasons, uh, we've now had the best quarter we've ever 799 - > experienced in nine years. 800 - > But we dug in. 801 - > We made adjustments. 802 - > We did all the things that I know we're capable of doing, and 803 - > i'm very happy with where we're at right now, and honest to God, 804 - > if you would've reached out six months ago, I probably wouldn't 805 - > have even done this.

806 - > I'd have been like,"I got too many thing, too many fires, 807 - > Russel, I'm sorry." 808 - > Russel: Oh. 809 - > Uh, I'm glad I con- I contacted you at the right time. 810 - > Uh, sounds like a, a high-stakes game of Whac-A-Mole.

811 - > Tony: Absolutely, yeah. 812 - > So- 813 - > Russel: Yeah. 814 - > Awesome 815 - > Tony: we're 816 - > Russel: rolling 817 - > Tony: up now, so. 818 - > Russel: Great.

819 - > Well, that's good to hear. 820 - > Always love a turnaround story.