ambush on air: Microsoft’s FY27 incentives

Speaker A: Hello, hello and welcome to this episode of Ambush on Air. I'm your host, Ambush, and as always, bringing you topical content all around. Sales, marketing and partnerships in the Microsoft space. Today I am thrilled to announce my speaker. Today I have got Matt here with me. Matt, do a quick intro on who you are.

Speaker B: Hey, Matt, baby. Based over in sunny North Wales, been around the Microsoft ecosystem for a number of years working in distribution and now at, uh, Scipio, uh, bringing communication to AI amongst many other things in the MIC Microsoft ecosystem, as well as Zoom and WebEx. So, yeah, I just been around this industry for a number of years. Love it and love the people that I've managed to meet like you.

Speaker A: Yeah, same here. The Microsoft space is unlike any other. I've been like, all across ERP ecosystems for a lot of my career and now just in Microsoft. And I'm so thankful. Like all the different nuances that come from different micro communities, this one's just, it's got its own intricacies that we all kind of figure out and then stick with.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. You know what? When I first got exposed, if you like, to the Dynamics ecosystem, it was funny because I was at Microsoft as a contractor and I was in the Microsoft 365 space. And then after a few months of what we were doing, it was like we could do with someone doing this in Dynamics. I raised my hand. I was like, I'll do that. Because I took a very. I come from a contact center background and like sales and service. So I kind of had used CRM and systems and I kind of just drew naturally to it. And then I had my first kind of roundtable with a load of Dynamics partners and I was like, this is different. This is like everyone sharing, everyone's nice to each other. This is very different. So, yeah, lovely community. And yeah, some of the work that I'm doing at Scipio as well is, you know, we're, we're integrating Voice with Dynamics and I'm thrilled with it because it's like, great. I'm back in that ecosystem of partners and yeah, it's always a pleasure.

Speaker A: So fun. It's so fun. Well, we are here today to talk about something very, very important. Through a series of content we both create on the Internet, we became content friends. You, you kind of reached out as I was looking for some just people to talk about alternative opinions and things that are really not the AI slop that we're seeing all over LinkedIn and all over everyone's blogs. Right. Um, so you wrote an article about the FY27 incentives and what really partners need to gain from it. Can you give just an overview of what that article is about and really where your head came in, putting that together? Yeah.

Speaker B: So I think for me, and I mean, you know I, I love helping partners and you know, that kind of content, it doesn't, I wouldn't say it directly benefits the role that I do today. It was kind of what I could see on LinkedIn though, just to, just to kind of get where my head was at when I kind of decided I'm going to write this was. I just seen so much negativity around the changes and I've, I've been through a number of changes over the years. I remember CSP to NCE and that M. I won't swear. But that storm that, that caused and you know, and I, and I saw this negative content, I saw it from people that I thought would know better and I'm like, oh, no names. I just, I just thought is this really the content that's being put out to partners that they're going into FY27 with a negative mindset like, yeah, like Microsoft trying to do them wrong. And that's not what's happening. And I think what the biggest mistake that I saw was somebody posted something along the lines of Microsoft is no longer helping partners that want to just support their existing customer base. They're supporting aggressive customer acquisition. And I looked at it and I was like, are we reading the same documents? Because that's not what I'm reading. You know, my what, the way I kind of read it was okay, Microsoft doesn't want partners that are just going to sit on their existing customer base, add no additional value. Not drive, upsell, cross sell, not drive. And not just upselling cross sell for upselling cross sell sake. This is. And I'm going to bring it back to. I, uh, created an analogy and I've got images on my LinkedIn of it of the AI jigsaw. And I think, you know, whether you are a aggressively going into AI or not, the market kind of is, you know, customers, uh, businesses are saying we need an AI strategy or they've got employees that are already using it, but wrongly, you know, and it's right. We need to kind of get some sort of restrictions in place. We need to make sure we're providing the right tools.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: The upsell and cross sell, whether we like it or not, is all towards that uh, end goal of kind of that AI integration piece. That's kind of how I, I see It I see AI as this jigsaw. And actually the co pilot, Co pilot license is just one piece of puzzle. There's so many more pieces to uh, that puzzle. And when I looked at the, the incentives for FY27, the way I kind of looked at it was okay, this is to support partners in terms of, I mean you can earn well without adding a single customer. You can continue to look after your existing customer base, but by look after them you need to add value, you need to help them automate processes, you need to help them be more productive, close more business, help their customers better. You know, and I think, you know, 12 months is uh, a is a long time and you go, 12 months ago everything was co pilot, co pilot, co pilot. And this year, same time of year, I'm hearing more. I'd say you've swapped out the word copilot for agents or agendas and you're going down that path. And I think when you look at. And I did, um, I've got a table in one of the blogs that I did, which is kind of the FY26 earning potential and FY27 earning potential and the things that have gone from like medium to high to very high. It's everything that's going to enable a business to do more. So whether it's you know, more Premium skis of M365, Dynamics, 365 Azure, AI Foundry, Agentic Copilot. So again, I think one of the biggest frustrations I saw was this negative approach to the incentives. And yeah, that was the kind of steer uh, for me to go, right, I'm going to write a blog on this and I always do these blogs in it's my own opinion. No doubt you'll find a bunch of spelling mistakes. Yeah, just type and go. And I'm like, right, I need to uh, yeah, you know, if I can help one or two people, I'm happy, you know, with, with that kind of content. And I, you know, I got some nice messages off the back of it that people had sent it around their own businesses internally. M. But yeah, I just think for me as a, if you're a mic, if you're a Microsoft partner in FY27 and beyond, great. Go for customer acquisition all you want. But if you want to look after your existing customer base, it's actually look after them, actually ask questions of your customers, understand where they're at, their industry, the legislations in their industry, what data are they, are they handling, what security have they got in place What AI initiative? You know, if they want to invest in AI, what do they actually want to achieve with that? You know, don't just do things for the sake of doing things, have an end goal. And I think that's what the incentives is encouraging. And uh, I think people are just looking past that too much. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: In your article you argue the Parker partners are really focused on how to get paid really more than they're focused on that. Sort of like the, the reason why the incentive changed first off, but also the mindset of the consultant. I feel like some of what your article reads like and some of what I kind of see in this space as well is some of these partners are like, my customers are good, we're good. We don't need to do any of that because we're just maintaining.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Especially around some of the more legacy customer bases and things like that.

Speaker B: Yeah. And this is the thing, and I think one of the other points where I think as well, I feel like partners, and I've been saying this for years, should never be, you should never be reliant on Microsoft incentives, Microsoft funding, anything like that. If, if the incentive change bothers you that much, you're not set up. Right. Brutally speaking. And I think, you know, I think it does present a lot more. And I kind of, I talked about something on, on a webinar recently where I gave it a name because everything's as a service. I was like, education as a service should be an offering that MSPs are providing. If you, if you've provided Copilot, especially because you look at the roadmap Right now in M365, Roadmap Copilot has about 260 odd items in development. About 60 odd items being launched. Exactly. Hundreds that have been rolled out recently. Like there's so much where, okay, so who's telling your customers about those things? Who's telling you? The partner, you know, and I think that being able to, it's not just providing newsletters or providing the uh, odd email like now you can really wrap education as a proper service. I think as an msp, really educate your customers because this, you know, even there's some things coming into teams which is, it's going to help with getting rid of spam calls and things like that. You know, those sorts of things. Extremely valuable to a business. And again, if you want to add value to a, uh, to a business, to your customers, it will give them the insights on what is the technology they're using, what can it do for them, what's coming in the roadmap. How does that impact them? And I'm not saying, okay, you need to educate Katie customers And all the 260 items that are in development, but you should be able to sift through them and go, okay, we've got these sort of 20 things that are going to be really valuable to the legal industry. And we've got 30 customers in the legal industry. Let's get all them on a call or let's get a blog out, you know.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Proper education as a service. You know, I keep calling it that but I just think there's so many more opportunities and you can still, you know, when you look at the money that Microsoft is putting into incentives and into funds, there's still some fantastic ways that you can earn as a Microsoft partner. Just looking after your existing customer base. You've just got to be doing forward thinking things and not just sitting back on your morals.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So who in the business do you see should be driving that change?

Speaker B: I think from, from a Microsoft partner perspective. Yeah, so I think, I mean there's a lot of Microsoft partners that are larger, uh, size that have got like, you know, Microsoft alliance managers type roles. Those folks definitely need to be, you know, ah, and again, cheap use copilot to analyze those incentives. I'm not even sitting here saying read through hundreds of pages of documents, make sure you get what's relevant to you. It's very easy to kind of analyze those things but it's how you're presenting that back into the business and how you can build out your plans. So then you've got to work with market and you've got to work with the product teams, you've got to work with the sales leaders and um, whoever's looking after the existing customers. And I think this is a huge thing. I mean I've sat in rooms with a lot of Microsoft partners before now and said, tell me what industries you're selling into. And I get looked at with blank faces. I know, never a good start. You should know your customers, you should know their industry, you should know their industry challenges. And I think, you know, I'll give an example. And I'm almost, you know, going under the hood here. But like I've created agents for Cipio where we can analyze industry and um, the customer, you know, whatever industry the end customers in, what's happening in that industry, what's the industry investing in. You can create agents to do that very easily or you just copilot or whatever, you know. But I just think we should, you know, whoever's, yeah, leading on the Microsoft front and whoever's leading on the sales front and the go to market front, they need to be kind of, they need to be communicating, they need to be talking to each other because it presents this massive opportunity. But then also you need to go and speak to the end customer. Because one thing with Copilot and I, I remember downloading, it was one of the Microsoft pitch decks about Copilot and this is over 12 months ago. So these decks might have massively improved now but they, there was like stats in there where it was like you will save on average 11 minutes a week or so. It was something like that. And I thought, hang on a minute, like if you're in the league, if you're a small legal firm, you are going to save hours a day. You know, AI is so user specific that even the way that I use it with, compared to other people in my own business, in the same industry, in the same company, the ROI is completely different. How we use it is completely different. Absolutely. You can't be generic with this. And I think now more than ever it's so important to get to know the customer, understand where they're at, what are their goals. Because not only can you create an opportunity for, okay, we can build you an agent for that, you should be able to as a Microsoft partner now, create a two year roadmap of what you want to do with that customer. Because whether it's SMB, SME, enterprise, no one's got the budget to do it all now. But if you understand where they want to go and again, you build that AI jigsaw of all the services, all the products and solutions, everything that's going to make that AI initiative super impactful. You build that jigsaw over time to the end goal where they are going to get the best roi, the best value, they're going to love you and they're going to stick with you because yeah, right now that's just, that's just not happening. Which is why you've got over 40% of all AI initiatives get abandoned and over 90% don't achieve the ROI that they're expecting. Um, and some of that could be down to the customer. You know, they think they've got AI, they've got the magic button and it's going to do everything for them. And realistically less than 30% of their applications are actually integrated. So then there's AI doesn't have access to everything. Voice is completely out there. So there's Just data that they don't have access to. But yeah, I think, you know, Microsoft partnership got to start by speaking to your customers.

Speaker A: Literally. Literally. I find it so interesting because you have this go to market side who's focused on how do we uh, achieve revenue, how do we meet goal. And then you have the consultant side of the business too. That's thinking, how do I help the customer? And it's almost like in a lot of instances we're not having the discussion together, we're having them in separate silos. And you mentioned education as a service. I hear partners all the time talking about just selling Copilot. Are they even really selling software at that point or are they just really selling licenses? Right?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, they are just selling licenses. And the thing is as well, the adoption rate of co pilot and I've, you know, been in and around this partner ecosystem since the launch of Copilot and before and for a long time. And I'm going to assume it's not changed massively over the last 12 months or so. But the average deal size was really low on Copilot compared to the seats that were available. You know, 100 seat business, they sold two free seats of Copilot. The adoption is not there and a big part of that, uh, is down to the education piece. So I know, and um, maybe, you know, I work in the industry, so if someone hears that and I mean even at like children's birthday parties and someone will say to me, oh, you work in tech. And it's like, okay, what are you going to talk about? I remember being sat around, I was sat in this room and they started talking about, yeah, we use AI. I was like, oh, cool, how, how do you use it then? Like, you know, if you're going to talk to me about it, I'll ask a question. And they're like, oh, you know, I copy and paste all my emails into chat GPT and just ask it to. And I'm like, you do what? And they're like, and uh, you know, and then it's like, yeah, and I've put like spreadsheets into it. I'm like, don't tell me this. You're just a cybersecurity risk. Like, you know, and then I'm like, I'm sat there at a children's birthday party going, do I tell them about cybersecurity? Do I talk to them about data breach?

Speaker A: We're talking about right now. Yeah.

Speaker B: So like, so this is the thing, like when, when businesses are, uh, adopting AI, they're not being educated on the right way to do it. And even things like prompt. I remember going to a prompter and I remember thinking, I'm pretty good at AI. Like, I'm pretty good at prompting and all those things. Like, I don't just type in a small prompt. And then all of a sudden I learned the goal methodology, which is really cool. And I was like, okay. And it's all about giving, like, context to the AI. So I'll use an example when I did, I. So I'm running an ultra marathon and I created an AI. I asked, I asked Google Gemini, my personal life, I love a bit of Google Gemini on my Android phone. And I asked Google Gemini. I was like, I need a program. Now you can just say, I'm running an ultra marathon. Write me a program. And it will be super generic. It won't know what days you can run, what days you can weight train. Can you even weight train? Can you. What equipment do you have available to you? Then I wrote the, uh, prompt and I said, like, I've got a home garage gym. I've got a row machine, a spinning biker treadmill. I've got dumbbells up to 25 kilos. I've got a bench I can train on these days. I want to do my long run on a Saturday, followed by a medium run on a Sunday. I can go running in the morning on these days, evening on these days. And, uh, then I even put in like my age weight and I put in my Strava results that I'm at at the time. So I was like, this is what I've just run a marathon in. This is what I can do 10k in. This is what I can do 5k in. Like, wrote all these things. So this prompt was like, huge, right? But the program I got was just perfect. And I've been able to follow it to a T. And I remember showing somebody who was training for an obstacle course race, and they're actually representing Great Britain in obstacle course racing, showed it them and they were like, can you write one for me? I was like, I'm not writing the program, but I will take all your information and I'll get the program written for you and I'll teach you how to go and do it. But I think, you know, when you've. The majority of people that would ask AI to write a program for a marathon would say, I'm running a marathon in June. Can you write a program from now to June? Or whatever.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And again, I even put in what my ultramarathon is sent a link to the route of the Ultra Marathon. With the elevation and all these things, the program's been brilliant. And um, you know, that's the difference between knowing how to prompt and just kind of assuming you know how to prompt. And that's even if you can get your business using the right AI tools that are safe, secure, you know, you're not going to risk your, your business data. Um, so this is the thing. I think, you know, there's a lot of businesses that think they're using AI, but they're just letting their employees use whatever they use in the evening to get their evening recipes for their meals and things like that.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Letting them and they don't. And um, the problem is no one's doing this maliciously. Company owners don't think they're doing anything wrong. The employees using AI think they're just being more productive and they're doing it for good reasons and they don't realize the risks. That education's gotta come through the ch. I think that's where the channel right from the top has let down the end customers in terms of that education train. Just hasn't happened like it should have done.

Speaker A: Agreed. And I think a lot of businesses like mine included, We're a small 25 person company. We don't have an AI policy at all. We just have like here's the tools you have access to. We don't have this documentation that says like this is what's safe to put here, this is what you use this for. Right. We have a couple of agents that people use across the business and even that my explanation of like I gave them, I did a go to market one for all of our forward facing staff for things like make it sound like do I make it look like do I do this like deck for me in this way and all of that stuff saved in the go to market agent. But even then I just gave them instructions of like before you send something to a customer, run it through this. Like that's the rule. That's it, you know, like, but like where's the depth in knowing where you're allowed to put something versus where what even is possible with the tools?

Speaker B: That, and it's I think honestly having the data and this is the, I mentioned before, one of the stats that always is just stuck in my head is less than 30% of a business's applications they use are actually integrated. And um, that means that AI isn't going to be able to access everything. It's not going to have the roi. But one of the things that, and again, you know, working at Scipio and being in this voice space, but I remember I was doing it, I was doing a presentation for a partner and I did my usual thing when I finished and asked co pilot if it was any good. It's like, you know, can you just run through this? Is there anything I'm missing? Let me know. Away you go. And uh, fully enough it came back and this was a phone conversation that I'd had with my boss whilst out walking the dogs that because we've got voice integrated with teams, it had a copilot had access to that call. So it basically reminded me you completely missed what your boss told you to do on slide three. And that was because, you know, I was out walking the dogs. I'm happy to do these phone calls when I'm out and, and I think since, you know, since everyone's gone through to hybrid working and remote working, we are more comfortable doing business calls while we're out for a run or we're, you know, out walking the dogs or whatever. Just the lunchtime walk, but you're not making notes and that can get completely lost. And again, if I, if copilot wasn't integrated to that call, I wouldn't have remembered that I was asked to put a certain line on a slide.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Um, I wouldn't have known even in copilot wouldn't have known when I asked. So it's making sure that that integration is, and this is where I think partners, they have been presented with the biggest, and I don't even mean the end goal licensing, I just mean the overarching opportunity that you have right in front of you to truly enable your customers to have better cost optimization. Lower their total cost of ownership. Increase spend with you, but lower their total cost of ownership. Make sure more is integrated and drive the roi. And I'm not even suggesting everything has to be under the Microsoft, um, umbrella. You know, I'm not. There's ISV vendors, there's third party security vendors that just, you know, people have got a preference. Right. And partners have a preference of, I really like using CrowdStrike for this or whatever, that's fine. But it's just making sure that is it integrated? Is it driving cost effectiveness? Is it safe and secure? Does Copilot or the chosen AI tool have access to it? And a lot of the time right now the answer is no. But I think partners don't know what they don't know. And then customers are even worse off in terms of they don't know what they don't know and, um, they think they're doing the right things and it's just not, it's not gelling right now.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. So I think I know the answer to this, but if you were to build a Microsoft practice today from scratch, on your own, go in, what are the core kind of services you'd offer beyond just licensing?

Speaker B: So I think for me, the be a consultant, I'd want to be. And this term gets thrown around way too much. Trusted advisor, right?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: But some people think a trusted advisor is their customer wants Business Basic and you upgrade them to Business Premium because that's the security. That's not being a trusted advisor, that's upselling.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Sometimes there's a good thing about that. I think one of the things that I would 100% have is education. I want to be educating the customers on responsible AI, because I think as well with education and I, and I keep using the M M365 roadmap as the example, but actually what's happening in government, government legislation around AI, how's that changing? How's that transforming? Um, I want to make sure that my customers have the right data readiness for their, their businesses. I'd want to make sure they're having the right conversations. I'd want to understand their business. So I think from a consultancy perspective, it would be more of a business consultancy, education, everything like that wrapped up into a service and not just trying to sell licenses. I think the end goal shouldn't be the licenses. It should be what's actually going to add, uh, value to the business we have lost. Sam, what I'm going to do while this is still recording, I'm going to turn this into my podcast. Maybe she uses this recording, who knows? But yeah, I think when you. I'll just talk a little bit around that AI Jigsaw, because I think again, when it comes to the AI Jigsaw you can have, you need to understand the customers, what industries they're in. Are there regulatory overlays? Um, you want to make sure there's an industry overlays as well. Understand what's happening in those industries, what regulations are in place. There's different industries with different regulations, different legislations, if you can understand that. Because one of the biggest mistakes I think a lot of Microsoft partners make when they're speaking to their customers is they think their customer knows their industry better than them. And, um, for the most part they will. But certain news and updates and legislations they might not be up to speed with. There is no harm in providing that information and then actually saying this is what I would do to combat that. This is what I would do to make sure you're achieving the state, the standards that you need to be achieving in this industry. So again when you're, when you're thinking around the business, they're the kind of things that I'll be looking at. I think also from a, from a Microsoft partner perspective, again I think one of the biggest things missing is the voice aspect. Again I've talked around it in my example of voice data being massively important when I've built presentations and things like that and Copilot having access to those calls that have been made on my mobile cell phone, walking around. But even when now agentic is such a huge topic, only 15% of uh, all agents that get demoed actually make it through to production. Of the 85% that fail, 30% fail because of a lack of voice integration. And uh, one of the things that we're working on at Cipio with Microsoft, with Microsoft partners is how do we enable and we've built the infrastructure to do that. Enable agents to go and execute whether it's receive a call, make a call, transfer a call, we have that infrastructure to enable Microsoft partners to do that. So again I think when we're thinking about agents we can go really basic with it. And I think one of the biggest problems I think sometimes Microsoft partners have today is I like the idea of the citizen developer, the everyday developer. But for example, you know, I've built websites in Power pages, I've built apps in Power Platform, I've built agents in Copilot Studio, am, um, I developer nowhere near. So all that stuff is really basic and something that an end user can do. So what I would think about is also how do you add value to that, how do you make it the next level? Therefore, when a business is thinking about an agent that's going to help from a customer service perspective, well, can it receive calls, can it transfer that call to an available agent if it needs to be escalated? All those things. And again having that CPO infrastructure in those agents, it takes that agent that in theory an end customer could go and build themselves and makes it something more valuable, higher roi, it's going to help drive sales or improve customer service, whatever department you kind of get in, uh, that into and it's going to add a ton of value. So again some of the things that I would be thinking about as a Microsoft partner and Yeah, I think from an uh, internal perspective as a Microsoft partner, it's making sure we're staying on top of these programs and these, you know, these updates from Microsoft and you know I mean there's the MCAPS event today, the incentives guides went out recently. Are ah, we staying up to date on those? One thing that I also did for on in my blog and you can have a look at this on my LinkedIn is kind of looked at. It's all in good what Microsoft's paying out more for but what's actually kind of the customer demand, what's the service opportunity and what's the partner profitability opportunity. And I built a table collaborating all of those so you can kind of see is it low, medium, high, very high for Microsoft incentives, customer demand services opportunity and partner profitability and then the growth opportunity as well. Put all that in a table so you can go down the solutions and go where should we hedge our bets in FY27 and beyond? So by all means go and check out that blog. I think you know, hopefully that adds uh, a lot of value to, to your FY27 if you're a Microsoft partner. Watching this, you know I'm more than happy to jump on with any partner and just hash out different ideas. I think sometimes again we think about what we're doing and sometimes you can almost. And I do it myself. Right. You almost feel like you know best having that external opinion. It's very, it's invaluable. You know I'm someone who, I like to analyze the market. I like to analyze what's happening, different vendors, what are they doing in the industry and how's that going to impact Microsoft partners and um, yeah, more than happy to have those kinds of conversations but yeah, I think other things that I would look at as a Microsoft partner, I'm not sure I'm hoping at this point that it's not me that's crashed and I'm on M my own M and it's not being recorded and it's, I'm not sure what's happened here. So apologies if I'm just talking but something else that I would kind of think about as a Microsoft partner is collaboration hygiene. And again being in this kind of voice space, I know that about 60% of uh, organizations actually use more than one collaboration collaboration tool, be it Teams and Zoom or Teams and Slack. And I've been in organizations that use both. It's highly frustrating. Again Microsoft partners, you have a massive opportunity to reduce, you know, the, the, the different Solutions that are being used help your customers actually maximize their ROI cost, consolidate. There's even migration tools available now from Slack to teams, things like that, to make that very easy. So hopefully you can, uh, you can add value in those ways as well. Now then, Sam has just dropped me a message on link. Say that she's having some issues on her side. So what m. I'm gonna do, and I assume we're gonna finish this web, uh, this podcast properly and maybe none of what I've just said will be used. If it is used, great. If not, that's absolutely fine. But I will just say a huge thank you for listening. And uh, Sam, do not worry about the, uh, the issues. Technical difficulties always happen. Hopefully this has been interesting. While it's just me rambling to myself, anyone who wants to reach out and have a conversation, please do as I say. I think the opportunity around AI, that whole AI jigsaw, ensuring that voice data is integrated, these are things that I can help with in a big way. If you're thinking about agents, again, don't think small on this, but you need to make sure those agents can actually execute on something. And in order to do that, you need that voice layer, that voice infrastructure. You don't want to become a telco. We can do that for you. You do the developer work, you build your own applications, your own agents. It's great. Incipio is just that execution layer for you. So again, there's a lot of ways in which that I can support in terms of. It's not about adding another solution to your offering or anything like that. It's about strengthening the offering that you have already. So, yeah, by all means, reach out anytime. Follow me on LinkedIn or connect me on LinkedIn. And uh, yeah, thank you for listening. If this gets used, great. Have a good day.