Alex MacPhail Podcast · 2023-09-21 · 56 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
44 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Franz Smit built PilotInsure from a deep understanding of aviation combined with hard-earned entrepreneurial experience. Growing up in rural Eastern Cape, Smit developed an early obsession with aviation - jumping at the chance to fly with a stranger at Stellenbosch Airfield as a teenager. This passion never waned, even as he pursued music tours as a youth and later started a business broking operation at 19, living in a one-door Ford Fiesta while selling small mom-and-pop businesses. When a chance phone call led him into insurance, Smit realized pilots faced a critical problem: traditional insurers couldn't properly assess or price aviation risk because pilots are vastly different - a SAA captain differs fundamentally from a bush pilot, an aerobatics flyer, or a helicopter operator in the DRC. Each faces unique exposures. The conversation explores how non-disclosure issues plague aviation insurance when insurers lack granular details about aircraft type, experience, geography, and flying activities. Smit explains that PilotInsure exists to speak the specialized language of aviation risk and offer coverage that actually reflects what pilots really do.
Pilots face unique risks that vary dramatically based on aircraft type, experience level, geography, and flying activity - an airline captain has different exposures than a bush pilot or aerobatic flyer. Standard insurers cannot properly price or exclude these specific risks, leading to non-disclosure issues where critical details aren't captured upfront and become claim exclusions later.
Loss of license insurance protects a pilot's income if they lose their medical certificate or flying privileges. It's a specialized niche that wasn't widely discussed in the aviation community 10-20 years ago, but is increasingly important as pilots recognize the financial impact of losing the ability to fly.
While doing his PPL training in Mossel Bay with a flight instructor, Smit realized he could fund his flying by meeting and selling insurance to other pilots. He discovered that pilots faced major gaps in coverage because insurers didn't understand their specific risk profiles, which sparked the idea for specialized aviation insurance.
Pilots must disclose the aircraft type they fly, their total and specific experience in each aircraft, the countries or regions where they operate, the frequency and nature of flying (aerobatics, bush flying, commercial, etc.), and any other activity modifications - because each detail affects risk pricing and can become a non-disclosure claim exclusion.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
There are a handful of genuinely useful observations - particularly around why pilots are actually higher-risk for occupational disability than other professions despite appearing healthy, and why loss-of-license insurance pools took so long to form - but the vast majority of the episode is biographical backstory, tangential anecdotes, and motivational filler. The ratio of substance to padding is low.
there probably isn't another occupation I can think of where, uh, your odds of being occupationally disabled, which means you can't do that exact job, which means you need a loss of license... where the statistics are higher of you needing to ever claim it
In aviation there is no such thing as writing down I'm a pilot and then moving on. You cannot do. That's, that's when you opening yourself up for trouble
The cultural-identity argument - that pilots over-invest in maintaining their licence because their profession is core to their identity, making them lower behavioural risk - is a reasonably fresh lens on insurance underwriting. Everything else is recycled: perseverance narratives, 'find your niche,' COVID-as-catalyst. No contrarian or first-principles argument is developed with any rigour.
it's much more than that. It's a cultural thing. It's, it's who you are, who you identify as
it's like you've got a heart problem, you got a heart specialist but they charge you the same rate as the GP
Franz Smit is a genuine practitioner who built a niche insurance business from scratch in a technically demanding domain, has 10+ years of hands-on client experience, and clearly knows the product and customer intimately. He is not a career podcast guest. However, the business operates in a small national market and no meaningful scale indicators (revenue, headcount, AUM) are volunteered, capping the caliber assessment.
we on average 10, 15 cheaper than anyone else out there and we're the specialists
I've got to do with all the local airlines and a bunch of international airlines as well
The episode does contain real numbers - LinkedIn poll breakdowns (72%/24%/5%), a 400,000 rand tax saving claim, fly-in attendance figures (40/60/100+ aircraft), and a stated 10-15% price advantage - which is better than average. But these are scattered and unverified, and large portions of the conversation resort to 'a lot of,' 'quite a bit,' and vague market characterisations without supporting data.
Salaries to be increased was 72%... Less, uh, hours to be flown was 5%... time off between flying days was 24
one of the guys, by Talking to the CA, he says that he saved something like 400, 000 rand on taxes already
The host regularly hijacks questions with extended personal anecdotes (F1 pit crew, Red Bull Air Race champion, 2,000 no's story) and asks leading, compound questions rather than sharp follow-ups. There is no meaningful pushback on any commercial claim - pricing advantage, client outcomes, and product positioning all go unchallenged. The interview meanders for long stretches without redirecting to substance.
I've had some great conversations recently. One of the guys, Mark Priestley from the Formula One team McLaren, as a pit crew. He was exposed to Formula One when he was. I can't remember if he was eight or nine
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, that's a, that's a good way of putting it
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Franz Smit is a pilot and founder of PilotInsure, a leading loss of licence insurance company based in South Africa. Franz grew up in the small town of Tarkastad, in the Eastern Cape. As a young boy, he regularly watched airliners fly overhead en-route to Johannesburg. This captivated his imagination and drove him to pursue a career in flying. Along the way Franz became a financial advisor and used his knowledge of aviation and insurance to dig deep into the world of “loss-of-license” cover for pilots. Franz is passionate about his alternative career in flying, serving aviation professionals, when they need it most. After more than a decade Franz has become a well known name in the industry. During the Covid 19 pandemic, Franz used his network to arrange fly-in get togethers to support fellow pilots during the difficult times. The idea was to bring fellow pilots with their new business ventures and product offerings to a central venue, to help pilots sell their goods and services. Some of these businesses continue today. Franz is passionate about his industry and gets fired up when talking about protecting a pilot’s number one asset, the flight medical and right to earn a living.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Hello, it's Alex. And this is the Alex MacPhail podcast. I'm really glad you're here. I hope you enjoy this episode. Big favor to ask, please hit the subscribe button, share it with a friend, make a comment. Makes a big difference to me and to the show. Enjoy this episode is proudly brought to you by Pilot Insure straight and uh, level insurance.
Speaker B: Not gonna believe this dude.
Speaker A: Listen, that's, that's happened. So there's a guy, his name is Charlie Morley. He's very, uh, I don't know if famous is the right word, but he's a very prominent guy. He's got about three or four books out. Ah, based in London and he does. He's a big guy in sleep and sleep dreaming. Uh, I've interviewed this guy three times. Can you find any of my interviews with him online? Anyway, every time there's been something.
Speaker B: Oh, wow.
Speaker A: So it won't be the first time that things go wrong. You know, it happens, life happens. But welcome back again, France. It's great to have you here. It's good to see you.
Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, man.
Speaker A: And now that all the sound is working, we can do a bit more of a deep dive. Um, I know you've got something exciting to share, so we want to talk about the exciting new product offering. Before we go too deep into it, I just want to understand a little bit from you. What is aviation for you and explain your passion for aviation. Where does it come from and what does aviation mean to you as a person?
Speaker B: So I think like, uh, most aviators, you know, I was the cliche five year old boy. I uh, grew up in the middle of Eastern Cape in a small Karua Dorpi. Uh, that's. And uh, if you don't know where that is, I don't blame you at all. Um, and uh, you know, cliche, the uh, Airbus and Boeing overhead between Joburg and Cape Town. Um, and you know, always looking up at the sky and thinking what an amazing life that must be to be able to, to see everything from that perspective and like the freedom it brings and yeah, I think maybe got a lot to do with the small town mindset and like the idea of escape. Yeah, escape and the world being so much bigger and, and full of opportunity and uh, I think we, I think we maybe miss that, you know, when we get in a rut.
Speaker A: Certainly we got a big taste of that in the last three years. We kind of got a bit isolated. But are you referring to actually like sort of being out there in the dorpy and looking up and seeing the planes or just imagining being on a plane and disappearing?
Speaker B: No, I think seeing them and then having your six year old self imagination take over. Um, you know, growing up I definitely thought that like pilots were my heroes, you know, like 100. Um, and it's funny because it's not. We're not a family of aviators, so they, there wasn't any influence really from a, you know, uncle or uh, anyone like that.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So there's something that just happened and I'm really glad it did, you know, so, so that was the idea. I mean as a little kid, that was the idea. I really wanted to be a pilot, uh, as an adult and I wanted to have that be my, my job.
Speaker A: Um, but did you have, did you have a chance to go in the airplane or see little airplanes or mingle with any pilots?
Speaker B: None. None. None. None of that. Up until I'd say teenage years somewhere.
Speaker A: Okay, what happened in teenage years?
Speaker B: Um, I think it was at, at Stalinbosch Airfield. We'd come to Cape Town for a little, um, holiday. Can't remember if we fall there. We moved back here by then and uh, hung out at the club, started talking, uh, you know, I've never really been a very shy person, so started talking and bulldozing my way into conversations and as soon as I see someone land and walk off the apron, that, you know, force myself into a conversation with them and start talking about the aircraft and, and, and one of the women's day said, man, just come, let's go right now.
Speaker A: Okay. Wow.
Speaker B: And then that kind of changed, uh, made it a bit more real for me.
Speaker A: You know, that's a tangible thing and
Speaker B: I think that's where the massive passion for ga, uh, comes from. It's really from that moment, you know, it's like and, and the camaraderie and how happy everyone was to share the passion and the love of flight and, and community.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, because I think the aviation community is a, is much stronger than we give it credit for. And, and the guys really appreciate and respect each other.
Speaker A: Well, uh, I know you got some good stories about during the COVID years of, of the aviation community, bringing GA together to help a fellow person. But before we get there, uh, it's interesting that you bring up this idea of the exposure, you know, where you literally said it took off from there. You know, you get a chance to go in an airplane. I've had some great conversations recently. One of the guys, Mark Priestley from the Formula One team McLaren, as a pit crew. He was exposed to Formula One when he was. I can't remember if he was eight or nine, but very young. But in the little town he grew up in, the Formula one came every year and it was a very small sleeping town except for the F1 weekend or probably a week and the town quadrupled in size. And uh, as a. It's not the result of it but certainly the exposure to the fact that F1 was in town thought uh, you know, thoughts in his head as a youth. He could be involved in this. You know, how do I get involved? And he tracked that down hard. But if you haven't been exposed to things like aviation, if you don't get that chance, you know, certainly growing up before you uh, leave school and you don't get exposed. It's not really tangible for most people to. It's quite an out there thing. You know. It's firstly it's not cheap to organize and it's. Speak of aviation. Do you hear that plane going over?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: What is this? I wonder how much of that's coming on the recording. We, on the route where the, the, the tourism helicopters go around here. So we see it quite frequently. We often joke that's Derek flying over. Anyway, um, it's, you're not exposed to it. It's not easy to, to, to relate and it certainly it makes it hard to, to think that you could be involved in it or you, you need to put a lot of effort in outside your normal circle of life of school and family and neighbors to, to get involved. Okay. So going back to being a bit younger then, uh, at what age did you leave small town? Cuz I know then you eventually moved to Cape Town at some point for high school.
Speaker B: Yes. So we left uh, probably around about the age of eight or nine. Um, had a stint in uh, more towards the coast. Um, it's on the Eastern Cape, kind of East London. Pe all around there.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Uh, and then moved to Cape Town. I uh, would have been about 14 years old and kind of been here ever since except for a six or seven year stint in, in Joburg just to go build the business. Because all the aviation in South Africa gets committed in Joburg. You know.
Speaker A: It's all up there.
Speaker B: It's all up there.
Speaker A: Although I heard recently that Safi started their fly Sapphire head office. It was based in Cape Town initially. I. Quite interesting. They not. It's not anymore. It's now moved. It's become a big established airline. But, but yeah. Okay. So uh, so Cape Town is Where your sort of formative years, uh, began. And um, I know you're quite interested in music and you had an interesting story last time we chatted about getting stuck in the music game. Are you still playing music?
Speaker B: A little bit. Guitar. Um, when I say a little bit, it's, it's really gotten to the point where I've got five or six songs. That's my go to, you know. Um, and that only happens about two hours into the braai when I've, when I've got the courage. But yeah, I had fun with that. There was also around the age of 15, 16, um, did some, some performances, did a couple of tours just as a solo artist. Well, it was quite nice. Um, and then you know, at some stage I had to decide what I wanted to do was uh, was the performing arts and, and that whole thing going to be my, my life or not? Um, and I think I figured on, figured out very early on that I'm not really someone for the limelight. I don't like that. I like uh, I like face to face, one on one real connections.
Speaker A: Um, but, but around this time I know you, you spoke about this before that the touring etc is a different kind of lifestyle. But were you still thinking ah, at some point how am I going to get into flying? I mean was that you, even though you were going down a different path, is the, is the goal to get back into aviation still or to get into aviation?
Speaker B: Yeah. So the thinking was that the, the performing side would fund it. The thinking was I could, I could make enough money from that, um, to just find BP Alcom and see how it goes. Um, also, I think like most guys there was a, there was maybe a year or two. I was absolutely in love with the idea of being a bush pilot.
Speaker A: You know, have you done some bushf?
Speaker B: I have, yeah, I have. I've been very lucky. Um, and, and so, so yeah, that, that's how the singing stuff happened. And I obviously decided that wasn't going to be my path. Um, I, I started getting recognized and it was just too strange for me. Um, you know, go to the mall and people stop you and yeah, I wasn't, I didn't enjoy it.
Speaker A: Okay. But, but now at the same time you still need to find your flying because that, it's not a cheap exercise.
Speaker B: Yeah. So, so then uh, uh, then uh, after school I, um, I studied a little bit, uh, ah, to stop about halfway through because I, I started another business. Um, and there wasn't funds to actually pay for my studies. Um, and Then I started a little business, breaking business, if you'd believe that, and buying, selling businesses at the age of 19 to 20 and you just fake it till you make it. Um, and that wasn't too bad. I mean I, I definitely learned a
Speaker A: lot knocking on doors and knocking on
Speaker B: doors, hitting the pavements, going to businesses. Um, and that must have been an interesting experience for the people I'm talking to. I never really thought about it, but
Speaker A: yeah, imagine yourself now. A 20 year old comes knocking on your doors. Hey France, let's have a chat.
Speaker B: Yeah, I want to sell your business. You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily take them. Maybe I would because I was on that end, but, um, you wouldn't necessarily take a 20 year old seriously about something.
Speaker A: Again, what do you think your unique selling proposition was there that people listen to you? I mean, did you sell some businesses?
Speaker B: I don't know. I, I didn't know enough to know that there was something like a unique value proposition. Okay, um, no, it was a cheat. This is what I'm doing. Can I help you? Okay, can I help you sell this? You know, um, but that's great. I mean that's all part of, you know, building grit. That's, that was just, that was just my, my school of learning, you know, of, of how to, how to take the thousand nos to get to the. Yes and, and then figure out. Okay, but how do you package and develop and build something intelligently? Because I think in business all you're doing is you, you trying to find a cheap goat, uh, cheat code to, to turn those 99 no's into 99 yeses.
Speaker A: It's funny, France, because this is a theme that's come up so much in the last few months, like running through this season of the podcast. This, um, this you got to get through the nose. And that's not a new concept, but people have been talking about it for, for many, many years, but it is, it is in the forefront because I think the way the world has kind of shifted in the last couple of years, things are very different today than they were. There was. Lots of traditional jobs have been smashed apart and people think differently. And also the gig economy has become big the last sort of two decades. So with gigging, you know that you're going to get, you're going to try things and things don't always work. But um, it's really sitting with me, this getting through the nose. And I guess I had, we were talking about the other podcast earlier. The guest I had about 18 months ago, Yoshi, he was eventually the Red Bull air race champion, I think. 2017 Red Bull eras champion, Japanese guy. 2000 no's before he got his first yes. I mean, that's a lot.
Speaker B: I think it builds up. I think the universe builds it up for you. Like, the more no's you get, the bigger that yes is gonna be.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, that's a, that's a good way of putting it. But the other thing is, uh, I don't think I've done anything in my life that I've, I've hit 2000 off any no's or any. I mean, that's just, that's a lot of perseverance. But I imagine as a 20 year old trying to, on the streets trying to sell businesses, you heard a lot
Speaker B: of no's, all nos, it's all no's. And, and the yeses come gradually and the yeses come with a small, uh, you know, Mickey Mouse businesses that, that the established guys who actually know what they're talking about wouldn't be interested in. And that I figured out quickly.
Speaker A: All right, little wins, momentum, that's it.
Speaker B: So, so then I, I kind of shifted tax and went after the businesses that I knew no one else would be interested in selling.
Speaker A: Okay. Was there any, any particular theme there?
Speaker B: Uh, any real moms and pop business? So something like, you know, has. There's a lot of very small entrepreneurs in South Africa. Yeah, a lot. So something I, I did a few of was, you know, husband and wife who bought 10 lawnmowers and they had a little, um, business with that go around and, you know, charge you 100 bucks to do your lawn and um, so those kind of smallish businesses, they worked well, I mean, very little money, very. But you know, I was 20 years old, I didn't really need much.
Speaker A: Living in your car with, uh, two doors or one door?
Speaker B: One door, I'll tell you that.
Speaker A: That car Story this episode is proudly brought to you by Pilot Insure. Straight and level insurance. Pilot Insure is the number one choice for every pilot, commercial or private. With 10 years of experience and thousands of clients, PilotInsure has earned its wings by finding the ultimate life insurance and loss of license to cover all your flying. PilotInsure clients have the added advantage of access to top lawyers and chartered accountants to help you make the best financial decisions. Reach out, say hi and Pilot Insure will do the rest. Make sure a specialist has your back. Pilot Insure, we speak Pilot. Head on over to PilotInsure Co Za to make sure. You have your destination alternate intact. That's PilotInsure. CO ZA Pilot Insurer is an authorized financial services provider.
Speaker B: So um, so we can fast forward a little bit into um, starting insurance.
Speaker A: But before we get to the insurance, it was insurance and flying at the same time because I know you, it was around the same time you saw an opportunity. But is the, is the flying bug still sitting there? You wanted to get there.
Speaker B: So all of this, I mean really all of it at that stage now I'm talking about 18, 19, 20 years old, that was all really about how do I make enough money to survive and pay for the day to day stuff I need. And you know, how do I make enough money to go see clients that I picture my car and airtime on my phone and then okay, maybe I can save a couple of bucks for an hour or twos flying in there. Um, and that theme kind of progressed, um, right throughout, um, and then directly after the OR while I was doing the business broking, um, one of the big insurers HR directors phoned me. Um, so I'd, I'd facilitated a sell of one of the total Garages I think it was, um, and a buyer of this big insurance company was, was married to the HR head.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And, and she phoned me and said look, hey, don't you want to come be a financial advisor? And of course when I heard the word financial advisor, I was like, this is the big time, you know, like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna print money from day one and it's gonna be so easy. Um, I just thought it was a very fancy name.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, and that's how the insurance thing started so completely by chance with a random phone call. And of course I did, you know, all the interviews and they take it very seriously when you in, they call it agency. So when you work for an insurer, okay, um, they take it very seriously. Um, did all of that. Um, and I was ah, an agent for uh, an insurer for about two years before I went um, independent. And, and the other. So the funny story with a car there is um, for the first, I think two, maybe three years I had a two door Ford Fiesta Fun.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And um, and somewhere along the line the, the key, not the key, the lock on the driver's door. So my door had broken so I couldn't open or close the car from the outside. I had to open and close that door from, from the inside.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So now back in the day I, I used to mostly work with you, uh, know, husband and wives and, and they work during the day so you go see them at home at night. So m. Most of my meetings are 7, 8, 9pm um and of course being a financial advisor, telling people what to do with their money and how to, you know, how to invest properly and how to ensure it'll be a bit awkward if, if the guy stops and then climbs in and out through his boot. I don't think you'd take him very seriously. So I would, I would always stop uh, around the corner and you know, get out in my suit. But um, you know, I'm a 100 kilogram guy so for me to get in and out of a small car, climb over through the, through the boot must be quite a funny.
Speaker A: So hide around the corner and walk up the street.
Speaker B: But yeah, that's kind of, that's the journey man. That's how it all started with the insurance, um, side. So it was quite nice because I obviously had this massive love for aviation and I'd started doing a little bit of flying but I never got to the point where I could actually do something serious uh, about it purely from a financial point of view. Um, and then once I'd saved up enough to just start with my ab initio stuff for the ppl, um, I went down to um, Mossel Bay.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And that was really great because nice airfield down there. That's beautiful. And if you want to learn how to fly crosswinds, that's where you go like you know, 80 of the time. Yeah. Um, and there's a, I've got a beautiful connection down there where um, my, my wife's best friend's dad is a, ah, is an instructor. Agent. Instructor and Jay Middle.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Um, so that connection in immediately into uh, into that world.
Speaker A: Did you do some training with this guy?
Speaker B: Yes, sure. And that's how this up the idea of piloting sure happened. Went um, down there. And you know, I immediately said okay, well I'm gonna go down there. I don't actually have enough money to do all of this. Um, but while I'm there I'm gonna get to know and introduce myself to as many pilots as possible. And while I'm doing my ppl, I'm going to pay for it. So while I'm doing my people, I'm going to meet enough people, sell enough insurance um, to, to fund this thing so it's going to find itself.
Speaker A: At the time it wasn't necessarily pilot insurance, it was insurance that you're selling to pilots.
Speaker B: It was just, I was just A normal insurance broker just thinking, uh, you know, let me be as proactive as I can.
Speaker A: Okay, so France, you know, it was a, you were in the life insurance game and you were very interested in flying. But you know, we spoke about it' some point. We were speaking about uh, the industry and loss of license and it's quite a niche. It's a very niche, very specialized, um, domain. It seemed like nobody really spoke about it much 20 years ago, but now, you know, more people know about it. Like the, the average pilot knows about it now, whereas even 10 years ago people knew about it. But it wasn't as loose and free the conversation it is now. You know, what was your sort of beginning at all this phase? And you know, being a pilot yourself, understanding the opportunities or the possibilities or even the risks that pilots faced knowing that they weren't actually covered.
Speaker B: Yeah, so. So multiple things. I mean the first thing is, um, I'm just going to loot back to where there's a disconnect between what's actually insured and what the pilot's actually doing. And this is because a pilot's really not a pilot. Not just a pilot. There's so many variations. There's so many different types of flying. You know, on the one side you get the airline guys, uh, the professional airline guys. You've got the guys, you know, helicopters slinging in the drc. You've got guys with a dash eights moving, whatever, they're moving around all over the world. You know, in Africa, African states, you've got guys like uh, you know, Patrick Davidson doing aerobatics.
Speaker A: Red Bull Air Race.
Speaker B: Red Bull Air Race. Oh massive. And I'm, I'm very proud of him, um, being a client and um, uh, so you've got so many different variations within the aviation risk. Mhm. Uh, and it's very difficult to understand how each and every one of them are unique from a risk point of view because it's different. You know, the risk for uh, Safek Jober, Cape Town captain and uh, a guy slinging in the drc.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Is completely different. So it should be, you know, it should be priced differently. And that's just from a pricing point of view. Never mind that the insurer needs to know all of those details. Cuz if they don't know all of those details, there's lots of exclusions that
Speaker A: will pop up later.
Speaker B: Excluded. It's all if they don't know exactly. This is what you're flying, this is the type you're flying, this is your experience in it, this is the country you fly in. This is if they don't know every single one of them, every single one of them could be a non disclosure.
Speaker A: Yeah, but it's almost like a knee jerk response. I almost feel like I'm having. We've had this conversation before and I've uh, and I still feel like that knee jerk response is there. It's like, it's like that health quiz when they say how many units of alcohol you drink a week? And you want to write two a week. And you know, you had two this afternoon. But, um, but more seriously, as I'm an airline pilot and I fly, you know, Boeing and Airbus airliners day to day. But every now and then I fly aerobatics and it's not very often and if you measure in hours, I might do maximum five hours a year flights, maybe 10. But the seasons where I'll do, you know, three or four flights in a month and then nothing for six months. I mean, what you're saying really is I need to list that because the day I need it is when I'm in the aerobatic airband most likely. But is it also weighted? So the fact that I do it, am I gonna now be shelling out lots of money? Changes everything for most of the year based on those five hours of flying?
Speaker B: Yeah, it changes. It can or it couldn't. Like, I mean, it depends. So, so even there, there's a lot of details. It's what's the machine? What's your overall experience? How much have you done in the past?
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Um, and, and I like, because I'm so close to it and because I know such a big part of the, the aviation community, um, I, I also like to try and sometimes think about that exact person and individual and you know, are they a risky guy or not? Um, not m to say that I can really influence much, but uh, it's important to have to know all of these aspects before you um, make, make a judgment. So there's no, you know, there's no, there's. In aviation there is no such thing as writing down I'm a pilot and then moving on. You cannot do. That's, that's when you opening yourself up for trouble.
Speaker A: So if you've done that in the past, then you just know that you should really look at that again.
Speaker B: Yeah, you should definitely, or at least, you know, at least uh, reach out to us. Let's just chat. Let's just see if there's something. I mean if it's not broken, don't fix it.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Like if it, if what you've got is amazing, keep it, it's amazing. But okay, but Covert definitely proved otherwise. Like we saw, we saw in Covert that it's uh, it's absolutely not being a professional pilot. So being a guy with 10, 15 years under the belt, you can't transfer that anywhere. And it's not necessary to say that you can't do the job. Like I still believe that you can do the job. Yeah, I think you can be, uh, you know, a middle manager at almost any company and do that job just fine. That's not the problem. The problem is that company won't take you because there's 10 other guys with the correct background, with the correct experience that's better qualified, better suited also wanting that job. Yeah, so. So it's not, it's not necessarily, that's not about ability. Yeah, it's not not about ability. It's just there's no space in the job market for uh, guys coming in with a 10, 15 year backlog. Because everything, almost everything's specialized now. Yeah, like there's think about almost anything. You know, you've got someone that's been doing it for 10, 15, 20 years, almost any job, um, and you're not going to get that job if you don't have that experience.
Speaker A: Um, but okay, so just if we just back up a little bit in terms of the specific loss of license or the opportunity that you saw a decade or more back, um, is it that the aviation industry is sort of the formalized aviation sector in South Africa as relates to insurance is still young or, or why was it such a case? Because if you talk to any pilot in the last five odd years, you know, there's different names and we can mention names and we don't have to mention names, but there's different places people go to for, for sort of pilot loss and license cover now and varying prices. But uh, it wasn't so available a decade or so back. What do you put that down to? I mean, was this something that's been available around the world for 40, 50 years or is it new everywhere?
Speaker B: Uh, it's fairly new everywhere. When I say fairly new, maybe 15 years or so. Uh, but I think that's. Look, I don't know the definitive answer for it, but I think it's really got a lot to do with uh, no one, no one really took it seriously enough to really go after it. And that's just the numbers. Just because there aren't as many pilots, there's Uh, a handful of guys. And for a risk product to make sense, you need a lot of numbers.
Speaker A: Uh, see the total number of pilots as it relates to percentage of a workforce.
Speaker B: Yes. Well, as you know, so when you, if you assume we build this product and for this product to make sense, you know, everyone's got to make money. Like the insurers got to make money other if they don't make money, they can't pay claims. So they've got to make sure that that pool. So the number of pilots insured in that product is sufficient. Yeah. To actually pay out for all claims. So. So as maybe um. Okay, so someone, you know, no one really took it seriously enough and, or they just. That the pool just wasn't big enough for it to make sense for uh, the insurers to actually offer this product. So it needed time, it needed some. And there's a, there's a bunch of people who uh, who worked hell of a hard behind the scenes and to, to make the loss of license thing happen. It wasn't something that just miraculously happened.
Speaker A: But then on the other side of that same argument is that, you know, it's one of the few careers where two things. One, you have to make sure your health is pretty much tip top every year you're doing a medical just to keep your health in checked that you can do the job. And two, twice a year you, you proving yourself in the current job to be a professional. I don't think there's any other career where twice a year you check to see if you can keep the same job that you're in. So from a health and body point of view, you know, you, you in order to do the job you have to be healthy. So for insurance that must be good. And from a professional and uh, ability point of view, same story. So the, the sort of candidate of a person is quite a fine filter of individual. I mean that must, uh, attract, you know, attention to the insurance. Surely.
Speaker B: Well, something uh, and the point I've been making for years is it's much more than that. It's a cultural thing. It's, it's who you are, who you identify as. So, so a pilot would go way above and beyond what anyone else would do to keep their job.
Speaker A: Okay. Because they don't want to not.
Speaker B: They identify.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like when you becomes part of you,
Speaker B: that's who you are, you know, and that's your whole circle. Yeah. I mean, I don't know about you, but I, I don't think, I think I've Got three or four non pilots that I socialize with. Like everyone is, is in, in aviation. So it's part of who you are, part of your identity. Identity. Just like a lawyer, just like an accountant. Ah. You know, ca. Or um, or a doctor.
Speaker A: So they go to quite, quite extreme lengths to keep the job.
Speaker B: Absolutely. More than anyone else. And, and I think that's combined with the other factors, that's what makes it really, um, a safer risk for the insurers. Because remember on the other end when you're talking about the loss of license, it's very fickle. Like there's, you could lose your medical for a pretty small event. Yeah.
Speaker A: You're committing woodwork in the garage and something goes in your eye or.
Speaker B: Yeah, well, for sure. Um, it can be something so small that for me, as an example would have no difference. It would make no difference to me. I'd stop, I had to walk. Uh, you know, work a normal career, put in the hours, put everything for you because of that one thing. Or maybe even not that. Maybe it's just medication.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So a side effect of the medication.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Means that you can never fly again. Um, so it's, it's, it's very fickle. So for when you look at occupation versus occupation, there probably isn't another occupation I can think of where, uh, your odds of being occupationally disabled, which means you can't do that exact job, which means you need a loss of license.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Where the statistics are higher of you needing to ever claim it.
Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So this is quite a multifaceted animal that they're trying to sort of contain you. You've got a high profile individual is potentially healthy, but a small thing could disrupt them. And you don't have a big pool to work with. But the premiums, you know, the payouts could be high, but you might need to charge a lot.
Speaker B: And, and the payouts are high, you know.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean if you look at the, the average salary of uh, a pilot is m. Much higher than the average salary of, you know, the normal guy out there.
Speaker A: I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were Talking about top 10 salaries in the United States and they mentioned like anesthetists and uh, neurosurgeons. And I think they mentioned number seven was this is all averages. Was airline pilot 100%. Yeah.
Speaker B: It's also funny. Airline pilots are always the guy that says they don't earn enough. Right.
Speaker A: You don't get fast enough, high enough, big enough.
Speaker B: I did a poll the other day on, on LinkedIn.
Speaker A: I saw that. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker B: Yeah, it was fun and it was really good interaction and, uh, because I've got to do with all the local airlines and a bunch of international airlines as well. Um, and it's always. It's always interesting for me to. To try and give, um, some proper feedback to the people in the industry. Yeah. So it's like everything. If your boss asks you what's wrong, you say, no, I'm fine.
Speaker A: Yeah, you know, not very helpful.
Speaker B: But if an outsider asks you what's wrong, you'd be more willing to tell them and get, like, an honest opinion and honest feedb.
Speaker A: What was the results? I didn't see the results. I think I did vote. It was time off and money. And was it just the two?
Speaker B: It was. It was more money, like a higher, uh, you know, and. And, um, more time off. And the other one was more time between flights. So.
Speaker A: Okay, more sort of balanced roster or something?
Speaker B: Yeah, more off time between, um. Yeah, more balanced roster.
Speaker A: Did it make you think of, um, Jerry Maguire? Show me the money.
Speaker B: There was a meme thrown in somewhere like that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, but, yeah, that was interesting because the majority, I want to say, uh, 70%, said they want more money. And I thought that was super interesting. You know, it's like, uh, I understand it because we also have to realize where we are at right now. We had a place where, um, after Covert, no one did anything. Now all of a sudden, and we've got the guys who were pretty close to retirement who just retired and decided they weren't going to come back in the saddle, which created a. A big, um. Uh, wow. Okay, so I just got the official.
Speaker A: Yeah, let's hear it. Let's hear.
Speaker B: Salaries to be increased was 72%.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Less, uh, hours to be flown was 5%, which makes sense.
Speaker A: Yeah. When you get working.
Speaker B: No, it's a passion thing, right?
Speaker A: Yeah. Ah, yeah.
Speaker B: So that shows you. We write when we say that guys want to fly, they don't want to lose their jobs. It's interesting.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, and then time off between flying days was 24, so I think I
Speaker A: voted on that one.
Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, yeah. You've got enough money. You don't need to worry about it. So, um, so anyway, so that's interesting, but. But there's a lot you can read into something like that.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: It's not just, you know, what you've been asking. So I've come up with a couple of new cool ones. So if you guys want to check out my LinkedIn you'll see.
Speaker A: Yeah, you must just do something. A weekly poll. Just do some of these fringe things around the outside and uh, you know, also pose some questions related to if you knew you were going to lose your license, uh, five years before retirement, you know, or 10 years or suddenly or you know, those kind of life and passion and professional and license being there and not. There might be some interesting questions you can ask on that.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But speaking about, uh, you know, we're digging deep here in the crew room. Talk about pilots, but you'll appreciate it. So the one company had the union reps out management, they were negotiating for days and days and days. Eventually they came back to the pilot body and said, guys, great news. New roster plan. Management signed off. You only have to fly on Wednesdays. The guy's like, what every Wednesday? Uh, you can't uh, please the guys,
Speaker B: you know, can't keep them all happy.
Speaker A: Collective noun of pilots is a whinge of pilots.
Speaker B: But it's just people, you see, that's people. That's the interesting thing. And I think it's tough because think of any other profession, right? Huh. There are very few. They are. Especially in the States. But there are very few companies that employ 300 doctors. There are very few companies who employ 300 lawyers, you know, very few. And I think you've got the same. That dynamics would be the same because you've got these highly skilled people and, and highly skilled means, uh, generally more intelligent people.
Speaker A: They look up things and they focus. They want answers.
Speaker B: You know, you're not gonna, uh. And this is, this is probably one of the most interesting things for me working purely with. With pilots is. Is the kinds of questions and the kinds of challenges I face every day. I think is. Must be 10 times higher than the normal ABC broker down the road because the questions are all real. Most of the time it's very well thought out. Most of the time it's properly researched. So. So I get very few, just okay, cool, let's do it. I get, uh. Mine's all hard work. Let's say objections, right? Mine's all like someone said this about it. But then it's someone that hasn't been in the industry for 20 years, you know, or you know, around the. Brian, someone said something about. Yeah, you've got to be careful about uh, this insurance. You gotta, you know, m. I heard a story about this guy, like those kind of things, um, makes uh, you makes. Makes your day to day much more interesting.
Speaker A: Oh, speaking of that, now I know you. So you Feel these different types of questions both with the uh, people you're trying to onboard and also people that are now either trying a new thing, they're getting into aerobatics or they may have some health hiccup or they're not sure about a surgery that they need to plan. And so all these conversations have led you to come across this geodea. So let's talk about the new product offering the new service where you want to have more of an inclusive package like a house, let's call it a house brand, but more in house services available to people that are your clients. So yeah, tell me about it.
Speaker B: So again I think because pilots are definitely more worldly definitely. And understand how the world works a bit more because they um, on the higher middle to higher end of uh, the income brackets, um, especially uh, you know, contract guys that fly away that's unsure about the tax burdens and how all that works. The guys flying all over the world, South African pilots, um, a lot of guys are, have a lot of uncertainty around tax and around how to manage their money. And just uh, everyone kind of needs a guide in that, you know, and it's because you so hyper specialized in what you do. I'm the same just in what I do, you know, I'm, I'm the hyper specialist in this field. So, so what we found is that a lot of our clients are asking for legal advice. So day to day little things pop up. Um, some serious, not some not so serious. Um, and, and they want someone that they can be able to phone and have you know, a lawyer in their pocket. And it's like how do I deal with this? What can I do with this? Is this something I should worry about or not? Um, and, and on the accounting side some more, the tax side, the same thing. You know, everyone needs a real proper chartered accountant, uh, to guide them. Um, irrelevant of how far you are in your journey. Um, you need someone that can have overview, holistic, uh, approach to just what's going on and where you're going in life with your finances and, and where you've been and what you're going through right now. Um, you know, and um, so, so we, we've, that side of the business has grown uh, quite a, quite a bit. Um, and so what we've decided to do is um, so all our clients that have got um, um, more than two products with us. So when I say more than two products I mean we do their insurance. So they do their loss of license and their life insurance and those kind of things, um, as well as the investment, because we're quite big in the investment space as well. Um, all of those clients have got free access to, uh, a lawyer and a chartered accountant.
Speaker A: Okay, so is this someone that you've contracted in for your clients or is this sort of in house counsel with the pilot insurer?
Speaker B: So for now it's, it's contracted in, um, and we'll see how it goes. We'll see how the uptake is.
Speaker A: Yeah, this is quite fresh. In the last few weeks you've launched, how long has it been going? So do people know about it and have they made use of the services yet?
Speaker B: So, uh, obviously with everything else you've got to trial. So I've had my hundred, you know, trial of 100 clients go through it.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So I let a small batch know.
Speaker A: All right.
Speaker B: Um, about that. And the feedback's been phenomenal. Um, I mean, one of the guys, by Talking to the CA, he says that he saved something like 400, 000 rand on taxes already.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Uh, I mean, just, you know, big, big numbers. Um, and I think the, the lawyer did a property transfer for him and charged him half or something for the transfer. So there's a lot of. What I'm trying to do really is I'm trying to take your day to day stuff. Your day to day costs, your. The things you're going to spend money on anyway. Yeah. And, uh, I'm trying to just slash that so that we've got more money to invest for you so we can just build that end goal quicker and faster, you know.
Speaker A: Okay. So if you have two or more products, then you are, uh, entitled to get access to one of these two services. So it's tax and money and CA and some legal advice. You got a lawyer?
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And it's nice because they, I mean, so both the CA and the lawyer, I've known them for over 10 years.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So it's proper people, you know, Are
Speaker A: they involved in aviation at all?
Speaker B: No, no, unfortunately not. But I'm working on it.
Speaker A: You never know. One day you're going to marry up one of your flying instructors, A guy who owns an airplane who's insuring with you and the lawyer. And there's going to be training and renting and then this legal counsel.
Speaker B: And hey, we've done some funny stuff. Uh, we've, we've connected some incredible people, especially in, in Covid. We, we started this initiative. Look, everyone was at home. No one knew how far on how long we're going to be at home for, uh, everyone was terrified. You know, the depression was starting to kick in. Um, and uh, and we were standing still. I mean we had no work. We, you know, all our clients, we hyper specialized. We only do pilots, so.
Speaker A: And they weren't flying.
Speaker B: They weren't flying, they weren't earning an income. So the only cause we were fielding really for almost two years was uh, here and there, contract guy, you know, who still managed to keep his job or, um, or a cargo guy who managed to keep his job. So there was some things going on, but the majority of our calls were, you know, how do we get rid of these costs? Like, how do we get rid of that monthly premium towards my loss of license? And that was terrible because it's. You think it's bad now? You know, cancel that loss of license and Murphy comes for you.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Then it's really, really game over. Um, so we were spending most of my time there, but I, but I was constantly thinking of how can we, how can we actually create value? How can we, how can we help our guys just do something and achieve something in this downtime? So there's two things we did for the general aviation community. Um, I started a really nice, um, uh, YouTube series. It was called Rusty Pilot.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And that was really cool that, um, it was really all general aviation guys talking about safety, talking about, uh, so in South Africa, we had this period where you couldn't fly in ga. I can't remember how many weeks it
Speaker A: were, but there were some loopholes. You could do a test flight. Remember that?
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could do it. Everyone's planes needed test flights. Um, and uh, but the general guy, you just couldn't fly. So there was a couple of weeks where you couldn't fly at all.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, and my main concern there was, okay, but now what? When the guy gets back to what happens then? What happens then? And that's where the name Rusty Pilot came, uh, from. Um, and it was, it was really cool. I got some proper big industry, uh, professionals to, to talk and present on various different topics. But it was really all about, okay, next time you go flying, you are rusty. You, you know, you want to jump into that and just fly it. Like, you can't do that. You can't go with that mindset. You've gotta, you've got to really check yourself. You've really got to triple check everything and make sure that Pre flight is 100. You know, make sure your oil's not gunky, like, you know, all these technical things. Um, so that was fantastic. I mean that I really enjoyed and learned a hell of a lot from. Um, and then we also started um, a, ah, an event where we took all the. There were, there were a lot of pilots who started small little businesses. But again, uh, you've got 10, 15, 20 years of experience as a pilot.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: The fundamentals aren't there. So, um, silly things, you know, you don't know how to even ask someone to do a website. You don't know.
Speaker A: Sure.
Speaker B: How to do any kind of marketing or branding stuff.
Speaker A: Um, so you use this as a network to collaborate and to bring people with those skills to help people. Starting a wood business or a meat
Speaker B: business or a. Yeah, there were all kinds. I mean you can, you can almost think of it. Someone tried it and anyway, so we did a big fly in. Um, for that I think we did three fly ins. And, and the idea was then to get the, the general aviation community to support the airline community.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So uh, because in GA there's a lot of businessmen who fly around and fly for fun. And so the, the idea was, is come bring whatever your idea is, bring it to this fly in. We get 50 or 100 aircraft to fly in. All bunch of different businessmen. Yeah. And uh, let's see if we can't connect you guys. Let's see if what you doing isn't something that they, you know, actually need.
Speaker A: Um, that's a great idea. And I mean, is this one of the things you're like, well, I, I've got to do something. I mean I've got a network and how do I do something? And, and, and you turned it into a fly in.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Where were the ven.
Speaker B: I want to turn, I want to turn everything into a fly.
Speaker A: Where were the venues of the fly ins? Did you do one down here?
Speaker B: No, we didn't have a cape down one.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Um, I didn't, I didn't think, uh, we would have. I didn't really think we'd have an uptake on it.
Speaker A: Okay. Um, and how was the uptake? You mean you didn't think you'd have an uptake in Cape Town?
Speaker B: In Cape Town, yeah.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So we did it at Rhino Park.
Speaker A: Okay. Uh, yeah.
Speaker B: Outside Pretoria.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, and it was great. I mean I think the first, I don't know the exact numbers, but I think uh, there was a gradual increase. I think the first one had 40 aircraft, second one at 60.
Speaker A: Sure.
Speaker B: The third one had, I think one of them definitely had over 100, um, aircraft.
Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker B: Fly in and Then it was great, man. We had. Everyone had a stall, you know, a little gazebo. Um, we try to help as much as we can. Some guys we, you know, did branding for the gazebos and stuff. Because I've got, you know, I've done all of these things 3,000 times, so try to help as much. And even something like make flyers for the guys or whatever we could do, you know, whatever we could think of. And anyone put down, up and said, look, we need help with that. I used whatever experience I had and my team to try and, you know, get this guy, uh, a start.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And there were some cool. There were some. I know of a couple of the guys, they actually went on and really made businesses out of it. Um. Yeah, and there's definitely a few of them who made the connection. Connections there.
Speaker A: Okay, well, that's great.
Speaker B: Yeah, that was fun. That's. That's one of the, I think one of the coolest projects of, um, you seem to be.
Speaker A: Yeah. Someone who likes to just think a little bit different and how can we, you know, what opportunities to blend aviation with either everyday life or other avenues to that are maybe not so common to bring them together. Where does this sort of, uh, thinking laterally, where does the streak come from in you?
Speaker B: I think necessity.
Speaker A: Uh, well, I think so, actually.
Speaker B: I mean, I think that's, uh, you know, when you, when you, when you, when you kind of need to carve your way up, um, you don't, you don't have another choice, you know. Yeah, you have to think of something different, another angle, something else. Um, otherwise, uh, you. You're just going to stay stagnant. And I think that's what Covert did. Covert was okay, so you've got a choice. France. Either you go sit in the corner and cry. That's one choice.
Speaker A: And some of us did that, of
Speaker B: course, a lot of. And that's understandable. I mean, you know, that's, I think, the more normal reaction. I want to say. Um, or you can just. Just go out there and see what you can do, make some noise and see what happens. Um, at least then you're not wasting your time.
Speaker A: Um, and if it's in aviation, you're having fun while you're doing it.
Speaker B: 150 and, you know, I've been. I still have a long road to go, but I have been super blessed. Um, I've done some amazing ga Flying. You know, I've. I've gotten to fly some. Some machines with some amazing pilots that I would never have been able to do. I would have never been access to uh, any of that if I ended up being uh, an airline pilot. Right. Because then I probably wouldn't have the time, definitely wouldn't have had the network. Um, so it actually worked out much better for me than, than uh, I thought it would.
Speaker A: The conventional route.
Speaker B: Yes, I think so.
Speaker A: You know, and there's still uh, you still do these outdoor events whether it's the uh, other air shows that you are part of or you sponsor some of the smaller fly ins etc. Is there, is there some more things coming up on the cards for the rest of this year? What else is on the cards for pilot insurance France and the team?
Speaker B: So this year's, the season's almost done.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So it's all winter. You know, 95 of events happen in winter. So we've had all our big events, uh, for this year. Um, we just had a massive helicopter fly in. Okay. Copter only flying planned for next um, weekend.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: But funny, funny enough, that was also something that I stuck my neck out. Uh, I tend to do this, so I tend to say this is a great idea, let's go, let's do it and let's figure it out as we go.
Speaker A: Create a buzz.
Speaker B: Yeah. And I did a bit too well um, because the, the, we had way too many helicopters wanting to come.
Speaker A: Okay, where is this?
Speaker B: It was going to be at Krugersdorp. Um, and the, so the area we had to work with was actually just too small. We wouldn't be able to land, um, all the helicopter. So it became a safety issue.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So then I had to pull the plug and we got to go back to the drawing board, uh, you know, properly get CAA involved, get ATC involved, do a big thing around it, um, for safety. Because there's nothing, I mean there's never anything I can ever do and you know, safety is always going to be number one, like nothing else actually matters. It's all about we don't care if 10 people come or 100 people come, as long as nothing happens. You know that that's a good event.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Um, so unfortunately I had to pull the plug on that one. But that just means I think the next one's going to be, you know, even bigger. Um, because I don't know of anything like that that's happened.
Speaker A: Um, okay, so you continue with the creativity. Well that's great. I mean the, it's nice to have someone that's sort of rallying up people. You know, it's the passion of aviation is that we spoke about in the beginning, the exposure to things that ordinarily wouldn't have been exposed to. Uh, is, are there any sort of school events and that kind of thing that goes on? I mean, what if younger people are listening and they want to just know more about aviation? Is there any way that you're connected with that kind of a game?
Speaker B: Yeah, so I think the younger guys who want to get into aviation, that's the nice thing about how the industry is set up. A flying school has to talk to you. They have to give you attention and show you exactly how to get into us and give you all the information you, uh, need. It's a business, right? So I would always start there. If there isn't some sort of a family connection, um, and even if it's just someone, uh, you know, someone your father knows or your mother knows or
Speaker A: your brother knows, knock on the door.
Speaker B: Go knock. They want to talk about aviation. So, uh, never be shy to talk to anyone about aviation, especially if it's not a pilot, because that's the only thing we know how to do.
Speaker A: Look at us. We've been Speaking now for 50 minutes, we've just been talking about aviation.
Speaker B: So, uh, so if you want to get into aviation, I promise you, the, uh, the old boys who've been around for a long time, they want you in it. They, they, they want you to be involved. Um, just don't be shy. Put your hand up, ask the questions. Um, you'll figure it out. If there's a way, uh, I'm a testament to that. If there's a way, I promise you, you can make it, it, make it happen. You're gonna, you know, you can make it happen.
Speaker A: Okay. And then for the professionals out there who want to know more about the, the specialist services of Pilot Insure France and the team, what's the best way to reach out to you and, and they can find out what they need to know about making sure their destination alternative is intact.
Speaker B: Yeah, I quite like that. That's something you came up with. Yeah. So the idea of the destination alternate being intact is really about the, uh, the loss of license, you know, which, and when we talk about loss of license, guys, what we actually saying is ensuring your class one medical. That's actually what we're saying.
Speaker A: So ensuring your future earnings.
Speaker B: That's it. So, um, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a small amount of money to pay. It's a small premium to pay to make sure, uh, that one thing is, is Catered forward. Um, and, and if you're going to do it, do it with someone that's an absolute specialist, you know, that's been there since day one. Um, and interesting enough like we always keep tabs on what the market's doing but yeah, we on average 10, 15 cheaper than anyone else out there and we're the specialists. So it's like, it's like you've got a heart problem, you got a heart specialist but they charge you the same rate as the gp.
Speaker A: Okay. You know, well, France has been great having you in the studio again. Nice to have a face to face conversation. We spoke about being in person. It's, it's always, I always enjoy being in the studio. It's, it's nice. Much better than the Zoom connections for sure. And uh, you know we've got a wide ranging audience. Some people just see snapshots of the podcast, some people um, listen to the, the whole episodes. Uh, but also you know kids come up on board sometimes and sometimes the parents will send an email through LinkedIn and say what's the best place you must get a lot of people also reaching out to you because you've got quite a broad network in aviation. So if somebody wants to know more about either the uh, pilot insurance specifically professionally or just general questions about aviation like when you were a teenager and you were keen, what's the best way to people to reach out to you
Speaker B: so you can follow us at all the normal uh, socials, uh, everything is pilot insurer, um, or Pilot Insurer SA. I'm one of those two. Uh, my LinkedIn is Franz Smith, Franzet, uh, Smith, um, and keep a lookout for our blog post coming up. We're doing a whole new series. Uh, I don't know how much it's going to be. I think we've already written down uh, 20 names or something. We're going to do a whole series around different types of pilots, um, their day to day lives. You know, what does it, what does it really look like being an airline captain? What does it really look like being um, uh, fighting on fire, pilot, uh, you know, um, those kind of things. We're gonna, we're gonna try and talk to some really interesting people. Um, uh that, that shows you almost behind the curtains of um, what it really looks like. Not, not just the glitz and glamour, uh, but, but also what kind of commitment it took, you know, to get there. Who's this person really what makes them tick? And um, and for, for new people um, wanting to get into aviation. I Think that'll be really a fun read. Um, but really reach out to all your flying schools. Flying schools are amazing. They've got all the information you could possibly need. Uh, wanting to get into it. Um, and they, they really want to talk to you. It's a business, after all. They want you to come flying there. They want to teach you. Um, and they want to make sure you're a safe pilot, number one. Um, but reach out to the flying school and go and twist someone's arm to pay that. I don't know what it is now. 1500.
Speaker A: Randy. Flight.
Speaker B: Intro flight. Go do it. It doesn't matter how old you are, go do an intro flight with an instructor. You'll be surprised.
Speaker A: Um, or maybe you won't be surprised at just how awesome it is. It's.
Speaker B: You won't be. So it's gonna be. If you haven't done it, it's going to be better than you think it is. Um, and, and that's, you know, before you've done that, you can't actually even say if it's for you or not. So that's kind of like the, the first test. So take your first test, go for an indoor flight, and then, you know, in three years time, frame me with insurance fee.
Speaker A: Good. Well, France, thanks again. Great to have you in the studio. Thanks for stopping by and your time. And we look forward to the exciting installment of what's coming up with pilot and show.
Speaker B: Hey, man, Always talk. Awesome chatting to you.
Speaker A: Thanks. Take care. Thank you once again for listening to the show. I appreciate your support. We're trying to reach the top 1% of global podcasts, and with your help, we can get there. Subscribe to the show, share it with a friend, post a comment about it on whichever platform you use to listen to the show. I appreciate it. Take care. Till the next time.
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