Revenue Reality Check: What to Do When Revenue Plans Do Not Go as Planned with Julie Brinkman of Beyond

1 - > Alex Husner: Today we're back with another edition of our 2 - > bi-monthly series, the first of the month revenue reality check 3 - > presented by Beyond. 4 - > Because if there's one thing that AK drone managers know, 5 - > it's that your revenue strategy does not happen on autopilot. 6 - > Markets change, booking windows shift, owners ask hard 7 - > questions, and guests get more price sensitive. 8 - > And suddenly, the rate strategy that looked great a month ago 9 - > needs a second look.

10 - > That's where Beyond comes in. 11 - > Beyond gives property managers the tools, data, and dynamic 12 - > pricing technology to make smarter revenue decisions across 13 - > their portfolio, from protecting peak dates to filling 14 - > need periods to understanding what's really happening in the 15 - > market. 16 - > And that's exactly what this series is all about. 17 - > Each month, we're going to take a look at the moves that matter 18 - > most right now, what to stop doing, what to start paying 19 - > attention to, and where managers may need to double down.

20 - > Okay, let's get into it. 21 - > Welcome to Alex Dini, the Realman of Vacation Rentals. 22 - > I'm Alex. 23 - > And I'm Annie.

24 - > And we are back today for the first of the month revenue 25 - > reality check. 26 - > And today we're going to be talking about backup plans for 27 - > your revenue. 28 - > But before we get started, we've got Julie Brinkman here, 29 - > who is the CEO of Beyond. 30 - > Julie, it's so good to see you.

31 - > Julie Brinkman: So good to see you, Alex. 32 - > And hey Annie, how's it going? 33 - > Annie Holcombe: It's great. 34 - > Hopefully, it's a little cooler in Chicago than it is down here 35 - > in humid, humid Florida.

36 - > It's not sunny, but it's definitely humid, having a bad 37 - > hair day. 38 - > But um Your hair looks great, girl. 39 - > Well, thank you. 40 - > Thank you very much.

41 - > Um so I I think like what we wanted to do this month was we 42 - > we want to talk about kind of like hot news going into summer. 43 - > Like we, you know, we're we're in the thick of it right now. 44 - > Um, a lot is going on. 45 - > So we've got some like hot news items, and then we wanted to 46 - > dive into what it means to have a backup plan.

47 - > Everybody needs a backup plan for everything, but I think 48 - > sometimes people take it for granted that they need a backup 49 - > plan on their revenue strategy and they really need to have 50 - > things kind of prepared for whatever scenario could come 51 - > their way. 52 - > So we want to talk about some of those things. 53 - > So um maybe like first we just talk about the hot news of like 54 - > off the presses recently was Airbnb's um, I gotta say, 55 - > forcing people over to a new cancellation policy, the 56 - > extended cancellation policy.

57 - > So I think that goes into effect in September for 58 - > partners. 59 - > How do you see that affecting your partners? 60 - > Julie Brinkman: It's interesting that, you know, they're so the 61 - > way that I'm understanding is they're offering now guests the 62 - > opportunity to buy insurance, right? 63 - > And so they can have better uh flexibility when it comes to 64 - > potentially canceling their trip.

65 - > How that affects operators, I think is pretty meaningful. 66 - > Um, number one, it obviously increases the cost of any trip 67 - > consideration. 68 - > And so guests themselves will have to pay for that 69 - > flexibility. 70 - > And, you know, there's only a finite amount of money.

71 - > So while that might seem great for operators in that they get 72 - > the money back, that's also, you know, might limit the amount 73 - > that that guest is able to spend in terms of additional days or 74 - > experiences or so on and so forth. 75 - > I think there's also just like an operational challenge, right? 76 - > So now all of a sudden you have an open day, regardless of 77 - > having the money, your calendar is open and you your ability to 78 - > sell that inventory sort of last minute is greatly diminished.

79 - > You know, what we're seeing not just from Airbnb, but the other 80 - > OTAs as well, at Booking pretty much said it was without a 81 - > super flexible cancellation policy, you're just you will not 82 - > be ranked above the fold. 83 - > Whether they're responding to guest demands or trying to make 84 - > them more competitive with hotels, it's it's hard to say. 85 - > But it's it's clearly a trend that we're seeing continue to 86 - > emerge and how short-term rental operators respond will be will 87 - > be something to really watch because operating, obviously, a 88 - > short-term rental is not the same as operating a hotel, as 89 - > you as you very well know.

90 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, and I think, you know, at the end of the day, 91 - > it's like I feel like every summer we're just waiting to see 92 - > what's coming down the pipeline, you know? 93 - > Like it always seems to be this time of year when I don't know 94 - > if that's done strategically or not, but it's like it's a it's a 95 - > tough time of year to be putting something like this in 96 - > place when you know operators are very busy putting out fires 97 - > with guests that are in market in busy locations right now, and 98 - > now to have to go back and look at things and change their 99 - > policies on the fly and how that applies to the other channels 100 - > that they're on.

101 - > It's like, you know, it becomes pretty complicated. 102 - > But what are you guys advising your clients at Beyond to do 103 - > about this, Julie? 104 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, I mean, you're you're actually right. 105 - > So from my understanding, the May really like their Q1 106 - > earnings always coincides with a product announcement that is 107 - > usually focused on guests.

108 - > Um whereas their uh their Q2 earnings announcement usually 109 - > has a host focus product announcement. 110 - > So you're you're picking up on the trend there. 111 - > Um we're you know, we tell our customers that we want you ought 112 - > obviously to be as responsive as you need to be with the 113 - > channels, but that your rate needs to obviously reflect the 114 - > flexibility that is now sort of embedded in in the channel. 115 - > And for more flexible cancellation policies, you have 116 - > the ability to charge more and guests have shown that they'll 117 - > pay more and you'll have better visibility and so on and so 118 - > forth.

119 - > So we are, you know, we're advising our clients to stay on 120 - > top of it and then obviously make sure that you're aligned 121 - > across your channels. 122 - > So you don't have one cancellation policy on Verbo and 123 - > another on Airbnb, and that you're continuing to push push 124 - > your clients, obviously, to your direct booking site. 125 - > I have a question. 126 - > Annie Holcombe: Um, and it kind of goes to like the parity, the 127 - > the parity issue.

128 - > And so I've always been of the mindset, you know, and the 129 - > channels don't like it when I say this, but like, you know, F 130 - > the parody. 131 - > I mean, come on. 132 - > It's like you you'd it at the end of the day, we're all saying 133 - > to people, drive your direct booking. 134 - > So if you if you don't really care about the channel bookings, 135 - > then parity doesn't really matter.

136 - > But but when you're starting to get into this situation with 137 - > policies and stuff and then considering um, you know, 138 - > different commissions. 139 - > And I actually was told last week that Virbo is now offering 140 - > an 8% versus like the higher, like they're doing a different 141 - > commission now, and I don't know if it's purposely to undercut 142 - > what Airbnb's rolled out. 143 - > So you've got all these like moving pieces and parts. 144 - > And so from your perspective, when you're working with 145 - > partners, are you helping them put together a strategy that'll 146 - > ultimately help them get the most bookings of the time, but 147 - > help them wean off of channel dependence so they can drive 148 - > direct, or do you try to like just find a good balance in in 149 - > it across the board?

150 - > I mean, what is the strategy from your perspective? 151 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, I mean, I think I think diversification 152 - > does matter. 153 - > It's not, I think in a case where you're almost 100% direct, 154 - > you're probably not getting all of the eyeballs that you want. 155 - > And so, you know, there is a cost to gaining exposure, and 156 - > that cost is real.

157 - > Whether it's 8% on Virbo or 15 to 20% on Airbnb, you want to 158 - > make sure that you have the right balance. 159 - > And so we say, okay, max you want 20 to 30, depending on your 160 - > market. 161 - > So this is where we're talking super general, very difficult. 162 - > Yeah, 30%, up to 30% of your traffic is is coming through the 163 - > channels, whereas the other 70% is hopefully coming direct.

164 - > Obviously, that's a lot different in urban markets. 165 - > It's very different in Europe where it is highly booking.com 166 - > dependent. 167 - > Um, very different in traditional markets where it's 168 - > very direct booking dependent.

169 - > But, you know, I think when you have almost an exclusive direct 170 - > booking distribution strategy, your ability to be more dynamic 171 - > with your merchandising, with your pricing strategy is more 172 - > limited because you have sort of the same eyeballs constantly, 173 - > because we all know you're not going to win the SEO game. 174 - > But you, you know, I think that's the other, that's the 175 - > other component is now booking engines offering the ability to 176 - > connect into the LLMs, into um the foundational models, you 177 - > like uh ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini to become discoverable.

178 - > So making sure that your booking site is discoverable. 179 - > So you're not having to spend money on Google and bid against 180 - > bid against the OTAs because you, you know, we all know 181 - > that's not going to really work. 182 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, yeah. 183 - > And I mean, I would say this year probably I've seen the most 184 - > radical changes as far as even the companies that most of the 185 - > companies that I work with, they are legacy, they've been in 186 - > their market for a long time and and high high direct bookings, 187 - > but even these companies, they're getting more and more 188 - > from the OTAs.

189 - > And you know, I there's in my mind now, I that I think is a 190 - > good thing as as long as once those guest book with you, that 191 - > they do rebook. 192 - > And we just did a deep dive into uh one company that we were 193 - > trying to figure out okay, we've there's more OTA bookings, 194 - > but like really trying to understand are is it 195 - > cannibalizing our direct bookings or are these new 196 - > people? 197 - > And if it's new people, that's a good thing.

198 - > But then also looking at the booking window, the booking 199 - > window of OTA guests in this market at least has expanded 200 - > significantly. 201 - > And it used to be that like we looked at Airbnb in particular, 202 - > of it's the last minute guest, it's the deal seekers. 203 - > In this case, it's not. 204 - > I mean, like those the OTA guests are gobbling up some of 205 - > like the best inventory and weeks.

206 - > And so now it's like, okay, we need to kind of think about 207 - > earlier in the year, you know, we're never gonna be able to 208 - > compete against Airbnb and paid spend, but what are we doing to 209 - > really drive that back to the company? 210 - > And you know, the hard part is like, you know, most companies 211 - > are marking up their rates anyway. 212 - > So a guest who is knowledgeable is gonna go find it and book 213 - > direct. 214 - > But a lot of people are still choosing not to book direct, 215 - > even if the price is higher in the OTA.

216 - > And I think in the case of Virbo, you know, having the 217 - > points and the one-key is part of it. 218 - > They would rather get the points so that they can use it 219 - > down the line or something. 220 - > But I think the other part is it's the professionalism of the 221 - > Airbnb's website, Virgo's website, the OTAs, they are 222 - > investing millions of dollars in testing on conversions on their 223 - > websites that it's just not possible for an independent 224 - > property manager to do something like that.

225 - > So, I mean, I feel like I'm in that boat sometimes too when I 226 - > buy things online or if I'm booking a vacation. 227 - > Like, you know, I notice more now when a site doesn't look 228 - > like it is up to 2026 standards. 229 - > And I think that just it raises concern. 230 - > And especially in our industry when you hear about people 231 - > arriving at a destination, they don't even have a place to 232 - > actually stay.

233 - > So it's it is a it is a conundrum, but I think the most 234 - > important thing is just really looking at the data of like, you 235 - > know, those guests, like, are they rebooking for next year? 236 - > If they are, then that's a win, you know. 237 - > But if they're not, looking at how you're gonna be able to get 238 - > them back and how you can fine-tune that mousetrap. 239 - > Julie Brinkman: Absolutely.

240 - > Yeah, I mean, you never want to pay for a guest twice. 241 - > And as long as your pie is growing, you know, you you're 242 - > winning. 243 - > And then it gives you the opportunity to look at your 244 - > direct booking site, pull it up on your phone. 245 - > That's where people want to have, you know, want to book a 246 - > trip.

247 - > And is it pretty easy? 248 - > Can you get three clicks to a checkout? 249 - > Or are there forms you have to fill out? 250 - > Do you have modern payment infrastructure?

251 - > Is it Apple, Google Pay? 252 - > Like those types of things outside of just the trust factor 253 - > bring you up to the modernity of what the OTAs provide. 254 - > And and to your point, Annie, on the parity side, I don't even 255 - > know how you achieve parity when you have booking.com 256 - > offering discounts that like outside of a property manager's 257 - > control, for example.

258 - > Annie Holcombe: So Yeah, I know when I was at Expedia, they did 259 - > that a lot with, you know, when you start to look at like Meta 260 - > because you can flex with the margins on the back end and 261 - > stuff. 262 - > And so it's like really nothing anybody's control. 263 - > But that brings up another release that came out was um 264 - > Virgo offering paid placement. 265 - > And so like Expedia has been doing that for the on the hotel, 266 - > like on their standard brand site for years.

267 - > That's nothing new. 268 - > But to have that in Virgo, and it's like, okay, so now it, you 269 - > know, now it really becomes really, really competitive in 270 - > market, but that's where managers can start to use like 271 - > marketing funds that they do have that maybe they would be 272 - > using towards Google. 273 - > And because the the, you know, you're in most markets, you're 274 - > throwing money out the window every time you try to buy 275 - > Google. 276 - > I mean, it's just unless you've been established for a really 277 - > long time, it's just it's hard to do.

278 - > So, you know, I think this is a good thing. 279 - > But from a revenue management perspective, and I think that 280 - > sometimes, and this is where I I think Alex and I have always 281 - > always been trying to get people aligned, is that your marketing 282 - > and your revenue management team, they have to be aligned, 283 - > they have to be talking and be synced up like Siamese twins 284 - > going through, and so this I think is a good a great example 285 - > of why that that is necessary.

286 - > And anybody that hasn't done that connection needs to think 287 - > about it. 288 - > Um, but what would your guidance be in terms of 289 - > utilizing these paid ads? 290 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised it's taken this 291 - > long, right? 292 - > Annie Holcombe: I was like, haven't they already?

293 - > I thought it was already done. 294 - > I didn't even think about it. 295 - > Julie Brinkman: You know, like the these are these are 296 - > marketplaces, and so why wouldn't you pay for boost? 297 - > I mean, LinkedIn, now you can pay for boost, right?

298 - > So I think you have to test and measure. 299 - > And I think where where we fall short, you know, is a lot of 300 - > times with marketing promotions, there's there's the test and 301 - > then maybe not so much the measurement. 302 - > How do you actually know what you would have got without that 303 - > spend? 304 - > And so making sure your attribution is all ticked and 305 - > tied, and making sure you're in coordination with your revenue 306 - > manager because God forbid, you boost the ranking, and then all 307 - > of a sudden, you know, the revenue managers trying to drive 308 - > bookings, they drop the price, and now you're you're literally 309 - > paying out of both ends, you're getting lower top line, and 310 - > you're paying more for that visibility, and you might not 311 - > even get that booking, um, which we see a lot of where you know 312 - > there's promos being run out of sync with the revenue managers.

313 - > I think it's a really interesting opportunity for 314 - > sure. 315 - > And I think showing the visibility of how it actually 316 - > either impacts or doesn't the uh the booking or revenue or 317 - > occupancy of these listings will be definitely something that 318 - > we're gonna be taking a look at on our side. 319 - > Annie Holcombe: I'm assuming that like from their account 320 - > support, their account management teams will be working 321 - > with partners, like larger partners that they have an 322 - > actual person to go through reviews to be able to give them 323 - > the data on these paid ads.

324 - > But is that something that you guys would be able to 325 - > extrapolate or pull to do any reporting from? 326 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, that's interesting. 327 - > I know so with Airbnb specifically, we are able to 328 - > surface where you are ranking. 329 - > Um it's not a tricky, it's not an easily done art and it is an 330 - > art, more of a science, because it obviously you have to take 331 - > into account a bunch of different factors.

332 - > What we try to do is surface the opportunities for a um for a 333 - > host to increase their ranking through better pictures, through 334 - > better content, and uh through honestly better availability. 335 - > Like if you don't have availability, your rank is not 336 - > going to show up. 337 - > Um when it cut I I want to see how the attribution comes 338 - > through the Virgo sponsorship and um you know how it comes 339 - > through GA or through to the PMS and then help our customers 340 - > really try to pick apart what did they pay and then how did 341 - > that actually impact the booking or not.

342 - > That's something we'll be looking at for sure. 343 - > Alex Husner: More to come. 344 - > More to come. 345 - > I love having you on because I think it's it's it's really cool 346 - > this the place that Beyond operates in and the experience 347 - > that you guys have because you really do talk to both sides of 348 - > the marketing and the revenue.

349 - > And I think you know, that's we like Annie said, we know that's 350 - > important, but it's it's super important. 351 - > So anybody who's not connecting your revenue and management or 352 - > marketing, uh, this this is the time to do it. 353 - > Um and I'm sure Julie. 354 - > Annie Holcombe: Yeah, yeah.

355 - > Alex Husner: I'm sure you guys have um some guidance on that 356 - > too. 357 - > So I I would defer to reach out to Beyond to get some tips on 358 - > it as well. 359 - > But so we've got something really interesting and fun that 360 - > we've been working on now that this is a new segment that we're 361 - > gonna try out this month with Julie that we polled our 362 - > audience and we asked, we told them we had Julie coming on. 363 - > She's the revenue guru queen, and we wanted to hear some some 364 - > use cases of issues going on and things that they are struggling 365 - > with.

366 - > And I've got a whole stack of these papers. 367 - > Uh, and I'm gonna shuffle them and we're gonna pick one, and 368 - > you're gonna just have to answer it on the spot. 369 - > So here we are. 370 - > I was gonna try and do like origami or something, like to 371 - > make these better.

372 - > Julie Brinkman: Remember the MASH game when we were younger? 373 - > Okay. 374 - > Yeah. 375 - > I feel like I've had like watch what happens live with Andy 376 - > Cohen.

377 - > You know, oh yeah. 378 - > Annie Holcombe: We won't ask anything that provocative. 379 - > Okay, maybe I don't know. 380 - > I'll give you a yeah, we don't we don't know what they're gonna 381 - > say.

382 - > Alex Husner: First question. 383 - > Dear Julie. 384 - > We we had them all label it that way. 385 - > Dear Julie, we manage about 140 properties in Nashville, and we 386 - > planned around a major event weekend that has historically 387 - > been one of our strongest revenue opportunities of the 388 - > year.

389 - > Based on last year's performance, we expected this 390 - > weekend to book early, hold a strong ADR, and give us room to 391 - > be confident, but pacing is behind. 392 - > Owners are starting to ask why their calendars still have 393 - > availability, and our team is getting nervous because the 394 - > event is getting closer. 395 - > Some people want to start discounting now so we don't miss 396 - > the window. 397 - > Others think we may be overreacting because the booking 398 - > window could be shifting or because guests may be still 399 - > shopping.

400 - > We're also wondering if our minimum stays, fees, or 401 - > cancellation rules are creating friction. 402 - > So the question is when a peak week or major event doesn't 403 - > perform, what do we do? 404 - > Julie Brinkman: This situation, Dear Nervous at Nashville. 405 - > Um, this situation that happens more often than I think that is 406 - > really actively talked about.

407 - > Events. 408 - > Events are incredibly important. 409 - > So events overall, like for beyond, events drop about like a 410 - > third of our revenue. 411 - > It it and so when you miss an event or you misprice an event, 412 - > not only do you miss revenue, you also lose trust with your 413 - > owners.

414 - > Um I was talking to an owner down in uh the 30A area, and 415 - > there's this graffiti fest. 416 - > Have you heard of it? 417 - > They have an NPCB and then an Alice Beach. 418 - > No, no, no price increase for it.

419 - > And the owner's like, what the heck? 420 - > I don't understand. 421 - > And, you know, that can that can very quickly, even if you've 422 - > delivered incredible returns to your owners, that can very 423 - > quickly erode trust with owners and they start shopping around. 424 - > And so I do want to validate the concern that you have around 425 - > this event not performing the way that you've historically 426 - > expected or that you've historically seen that that it 427 - > performs.

428 - > The first thing I I look at is, you know, what date, what day 429 - > is the event on versus last year? 430 - > So I'll use this year's 4th of July for uh a good kind of 431 - > corollary. 432 - > This year of July 4th falls on a Saturday, which for 433 - > traditional markets is probably about the worst day it could 434 - > fall on, especially when you have Saturday to Saturday 435 - > check-in, check out. 436 - > And so, you know, being proactive with identifying what 437 - > are these peak events in my market as a revenue manager, as 438 - > a property manager, A, you should know them off the top of 439 - > your head, which it sounds like you already do, which is 440 - > fantastic.

441 - > But understanding where they fall in the calendar. 442 - > And then if there are other competing demand events that are 443 - > near or popping up around the area, which uh which could be 444 - > pulling demand away, but that sort of is outside of your 445 - > control. 446 - > I think the ability to quickly look at your dashboard and 447 - > wherever you manage your revenue and see how you performed last 448 - > year to how you're trailing, uh how you're pacing this year is 449 - > critical.

450 - > Your tooling should absolutely be able to surface that for you. 451 - > And it sounds like it is. 452 - > So you're already able to tell, hey, we're pacing behind where 453 - > we expected. 454 - > The other consideration to look at is supply.

455 - > So uh one of you know, another another little anecdote, 456 - > Sundance is moving from Park City to Boulder. 457 - > Um, I can't remember if we talked about this two months 458 - > ago, but or you know, what happened with the World Cup, you 459 - > have all of these now sort of short-term, short-term mental 460 - > licenses being granted. 461 - > And so because this event performs so well, there is a 462 - > there is a not zero possibility that there is now more inventory 463 - > available.

464 - > And so you might actually just be competing with with more 465 - > inventory. 466 - > And so I would look overall at supply. 467 - > And then I would dive deeper into your quote unquote market. 468 - > And your market isn't Nashville, your market is your 469 - > competitors, and so your your tooling, your revenue management 470 - > tooling should be able to service to you how your 471 - > competitors are pacing for this event, looking at ADRs, looking 472 - > at occupancy, and then revenue.

473 - > And if you're pacing behind, maybe that's the signal to 474 - > marketing or to your revenue manager that you need to take 475 - > action to potentially lower prices. 476 - > But you brought up a couple other interesting things that 477 - > you also need to take a look at, which is the minimum stay 478 - > requirement, especially if the the event's on a Thursday and 479 - > you have a, you know, a five-night minimum stay, that's 480 - > not going to happen, right? 481 - > So you want to make sure your minimum stay requirement aligns 482 - > with when the event falls.

483 - > Cancellation policies, everyone is really playing with those. 484 - > I think as you get closer to the event, being more flexible 485 - > with cancellation policies could boost, could boost ranking. 486 - > And then there's the non-pricing side of the house, 487 - > which is there are certain units, you know, you can run 488 - > through uh AI tools beyond has an AI tool that helps you 489 - > understand if your content or your pictures or your reviews 490 - > are putting you at or above the competition.

491 - > So those are all of the things I would start to do before you 492 - > really just start panic discounting. 493 - > And you know, being proactive with this messaging. 494 - > You don't let I think this is uh a term I I heard someone use 495 - > the other day. 496 - > You don't let the bad news beat you home.

497 - > So you know, you want to be proactive with your owners about 498 - > we're seeing this event uh pick up slower than we. 499 - > Did last year. 500 - > Here's the full three things we're doing about it. 501 - > Here's what we expect.

502 - > And you can expect further communication about this as we 503 - > go forward. 504 - > That's a myriad of things to look at and to do. 505 - > And it's all really complex. 506 - > And this is why it's really important to have automation 507 - > across all of the sort of X's and O's of revenue management so 508 - > that when things like this literally pop up, you're able to 509 - > be strategic and thoughtful and proactive with your owners, 510 - > with your marketing team, and then potentially, you know, with 511 - > how you are framing your listings.

512 - > Annie Holcombe: And one thing I would add, and this I think came 513 - > up really robustly in the World Cup situation. 514 - > And I think it's relevant for nervous in Nashville, is that 515 - > when you are in a convention city, when convention blocks 516 - > drop, inventory all of a sudden looks like it just pops open and 517 - > the occupancy for the city just drops. 518 - > And that's what people saw, and everybody panicked and said, oh 519 - > my gosh, you know, like in every town they dropped like 520 - > 2,000 room nights.

521 - > Well, it wasn't that the room nights canceled, it was just 522 - > like the blocks didn't hold and they released the room. 523 - > So when they did that, all of a sudden the hotels went from 524 - > looking like they were 100% occupied at $400 a rate to, oh 525 - > crap, we're only 20% occupied and we need to drop, and so they 526 - > dropped their rates. 527 - > And so I think you have to be mindful of what, even though 528 - > you're maybe not competing directly, like if you're in a 529 - > studio or a one bedroom, you're definitely competing with the 530 - > hotels.

531 - > But if you're in the larger ones, don't panic if you see a 532 - > report that all of a sudden drops it if you are in a 533 - > convention town. 534 - > And I think some SDR operators don't take that into 535 - > consideration when pricing and looking at dynamics of a of 536 - > their destination. 537 - > And that's very prevalent with any of these large cities. 538 - > Julie Brinkman: Absolutely.

539 - > Yeah. 540 - > I mean, seeing how hotels are pacing and um understanding the 541 - > dynamics of how hotels manage their inventory is a really good 542 - > point, Annie. 543 - > Yeah. 544 - > Okay.

545 - > Alex Husner: So we've got two more questions from our 546 - > audience. 547 - > Okay, the next one in the shuffle is from Myrtle Beach, 548 - > where I am. 549 - > And it says, Dear Julie, we manage around 220 properties in 550 - > Myrtle Beach, and the market doesn't look terrible overall, 551 - > but our inventory is telling two different stories. 552 - > Our oceanfront condos and newer properties are pacing pretty 553 - > well, but our older condos and second row homes are lagging 554 - > behind.

555 - > When we look at the portfolio as a whole, the numbers don't 556 - > seem alarming, but once we break it down by property type, 557 - > there's a clear group that is underperforming. 558 - > I remember this being in those shoes very well here in this 559 - > market. 560 - > The team is debating whether this is a pricing issue, a 561 - > product issue, visibility, or just a sign that guests are 562 - > being more selective. 563 - > Some owners want us to lower rates immediately, but we're 564 - > worried that if we apply a broad discount across the whole 565 - > portfolio, we'll give away revenue on properties that don't 566 - > actually need help.

567 - > What would you do? 568 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, yeah. 569 - > Hey, um, first of all, I mean, I think a lot of operators, 570 - > especially in, you know, destination markets, do struggle 571 - > with this, where you have the premium, the premier inventory 572 - > performing well, and you know, the second row um uh and other 573 - > and other sort of maybe aged inventory doesn't perform as 574 - > well. 575 - > And you want to you want to apply a blunt instrument to the 576 - > problem.

577 - > But I think the caution here uh is warranted. 578 - > So the ability to analyze your inventory, not just by bedroom, 579 - > but by hyperlocal locate, you know, hyperlocal cluster and 580 - > amenities, and then have your revenue management system or 581 - > dynamic pricing system understand the differences 582 - > between second row, first row, behind the highway, and really 583 - > embed that into the pricing, I think is really important. 584 - > So you should make sure that if you're using a dynamic pricing 585 - > tool, that they're understanding all of those um dynamics and 586 - > that the algorithms themselves are looking at specific um 587 - > demand by bedroom types.

588 - > We admittedly beyond up until about two years ago, used to 589 - > just look at overall demand. 590 - > And we got this, these issues from our customers saying, hey, 591 - > that's that's not can that's not nuanced enough. 592 - > Sure, my three or four bedrooms are performing great, but my 593 - > one and two bedrooms are really, really suffering. 594 - > And when you look at different markets, you can certainly see 595 - > those curves.

596 - > So, you know, not all inventory is um the same, obviously. 597 - > This is this is our world, this is short-term rental world. 598 - > And while you spend time trying to convince your owners to 599 - > update their units, that's not going to happen this summer, 600 - > right? 601 - > So, what can you do to try to accelerate the booking pace?

602 - > I would look at the listing overall. 603 - > So, you know, running it through the AI tools that give 604 - > you perspective on the reviews, on the pictures, how you're 605 - > framing the views versus like the floral bed spread, how 606 - > you're responding to reviews, and then being pretty targeted 607 - > in offering discounts for those units that are underperforming. 608 - > And I think the other thing to consider is your distribution. 609 - > I mean, this is where we started our conversation.

610 - > These units might need a wider distribution than you currently 611 - > have for your higher performing homes. 612 - > So you might think about not just Airbnb or Burbo, but also 613 - > booking.com, home to go, things like that. 614 - > I think the the what I would hesitate, I do hear people say, 615 - > well, I have an underperforming home.

616 - > I'm going to push it to the top of my, you know, newsletter for 617 - > my guests. 618 - > And I'm like, I, so I used to work at Groupon, and that is 619 - > like um, that is a no-no. 620 - > That you're literally just putting inventory that people 621 - > don't want right in front of them. 622 - > So they're not even going to look at your your um with 623 - > showcasing, you know, lower performing properties, although 624 - > that owner might say, Hey, I'm not getting enough visibility, 625 - > and you're like, Well, there's here's not three or four other 626 - > things that we can do in order to increase your visibility um 627 - > uh and pick up that demand and and hopefully book.

628 - > Um and you know, I think owners they get attached to their 629 - > units. 630 - > We've talked about this time and time ago. 631 - > Emotional, yeah. 632 - > Getting them to relax anything that they can, being proactive 633 - > with minimum stays, with minimums, showing them the data.

634 - > And you know, in BI, you can you can you can cut the data by 635 - > value, mid, lux, you can cut the data by bedroom size and 636 - > saying, hey, here are the minimum stays for these types. 637 - > That's that's your comp set. 638 - > Those are who you're competing against. 639 - > And that helps owners know that it's not just Alex saying, hey, 640 - > I need you to like put in a jacuzzi.

641 - > This is literally what the market is saying. 642 - > Annie Holcombe: Yeah, and I and I would say also like make sure 643 - > you, when these things are happening in real time, keep 644 - > notes because these are helpful, you know, conversations at the 645 - > end of the season to be able to say, like, okay, we can look 646 - > back and this is why performance was what it was. 647 - > And that's the stuff where you can say, here's the three things 648 - > that you as an owner could do to help performance for next 649 - > year.

650 - > And a lot of times it is the flexible policy, but most of the 651 - > time it's something simple like getting rid of the flowered 652 - > couch, you know, like rolling the carpet that's been in the 653 - > living room for 10 years. 654 - > I mean, and uh in these condo markets, that's a huge, that's a 655 - > huge thing because some of these buildings, you've got 656 - > owners that recently bought them, gutted them, and redid 657 - > them, but then there's units that have been in there since 658 - > the day that building opened, you know, 10 years ago and 659 - > they're tired and they're worn.

660 - > And if somebody stays in a tired, worn unit in a building, 661 - > all of a sudden all of those units become that in that 662 - > portfolio for that owner. 663 - > So you really have to, you really have to think about like 664 - > not only the data that you can provide, but like keeping note 665 - > of it so that you have this post-mortem, if you will, report 666 - > to give the owners for next year. 667 - > So you can plan effectively and be prepared. 668 - > Alex Husner: Yeah.

669 - > And I think another important takeaway from this too, and you 670 - > know, admittedly, I'm I I was guilty of this when I was CMO 671 - > here at Condo World that, you know, every day we would look at 672 - > the the booking comparison of what we booked the day before 673 - > compared to the to the year before. 674 - > And it's really easy to look at that and be like, oh, we're up, 675 - > you know, revenue's up, bookings are up. 676 - > But it wasn't until you really start to like look at things 677 - > because like I'd be, you know, thinking everything was great.

678 - > And then revenue would be like, I mean, our two bedrooms, 679 - > they're dying over here on the vine. 680 - > What's going on? 681 - > But I that that really just shows the need for marketing and 682 - > revenue to work together closely because you know, some 683 - > of the optics that you see from the business perspective, you 684 - > know, you're not seeing the full picture of what's actually 685 - > happening within the inventory. 686 - > And if you wait too long to find that information, it could 687 - > be too late, you know, that that homeowner's already made their 688 - > decision, they're gonna move on.

689 - > Julie Brinkman: 100%. 690 - > Yeah, that you need, I mean, you need to be able to have 691 - > smart, dynamic groupings, right? 692 - > And uh give you that picture. 693 - > And the way that we visualize it and beyond is like what needs 694 - > like immediate attention.

695 - > So a stoplight sort of um uh report where it needs immediate 696 - > attention, what is what is potentially going to need your 697 - > attention soon, and then what what's what's what's good to go? 698 - > Because it's it it is you can have uh the revenue overall 699 - > performing, but then the units dragging down and you're leaving 700 - > a lot of money on the table and then end up with an owner churn 701 - > problem. 702 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, exactly. 703 - > Exactly.

704 - > All right, well, on to card number three. 705 - > Julie Brinkman: I feel this is like you know, what we get in 706 - > our support channels. 707 - > I and we all do at least two days in our customer support 708 - > team uh beyond. 709 - > Um, and so this is like real life.

710 - > Alex Husner: This is the revenue reality check. 711 - > Annie Holcombe: There you go, making sure Julie knows what 712 - > she's talking about. 713 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, this is this is a good one too. 714 - > This is from Park City, so a little bit of a different 715 - > market.

716 - > It says, Dear Julie, we manage about 75 luxury homes in Park 717 - > City, and one of our owners just emailed because they still have 718 - > open dates during a period they expected to be booked by now. 719 - > The owner is comparing their calendar to last year and asking 720 - > why we haven't lowered the rate yet. 721 - > They're nervous and they want action. 722 - > Our revenue team believes that the dates still have value, but 723 - > we also don't want the owner to feel ignored or like we're being 724 - > too passive.

725 - > The challenge is how do we explain the strategy clearly 726 - > without overwhelming them with data? 727 - > We want to show that we are watching pacing, ComSense, 728 - > booking window, and demand signals, but we also need 729 - > guardrails so one anxious owner doesn't push us into a reactive 730 - > pricing decision. 731 - > Julie Brinkman: Um, first of all, 75 luxury units in Park 732 - > City, can I come stay at one just to tell you how? 733 - > Research, right?

734 - > So we we the term we use here is helping owners hold their 735 - > nerve. 736 - > You have obviously these large homes, they are very expensive, 737 - > they probably have a lot of fixed costs, and certain owners 738 - > get very attached to having full calendars. 739 - > We all know that booking windows are very dynamic, and 740 - > especially in a ski market, um, which with some summer and fall 741 - > activities like Park City, there there can be changing dynamics 742 - > and when uh when people book.

743 - > So before, as you are proactive in your communications with 744 - > your owners, I think that's like first and foremost is making 745 - > sure that you have a proactive owner communication strategy, 746 - > that we aren't just calling owners when something needs to 747 - > be lowered or something uh we need to deliver bad news, or 748 - > we're not just being reactive to inbound inquiries, but we're 749 - > giving them a sense of what's actually going on in the market.

750 - > And so you've already got this inquiry from your owner. 751 - > So now we have to actually give them information that makes 752 - > them calm enough to hold their nerve, knowing that this date is 753 - > going to sell. 754 - > So the things that you want to make sure that you're 755 - > considering in pulling in to tell the story. 756 - > So we talked about Naioba last uh month when we were chatting.

757 - > Um, this is a great use case for Naioba is drafting emails to 758 - > owners that sound not like a robot and not like a data 759 - > analyst. 760 - > But I have this owner who's very concerned about this date. 761 - > Tell me three reasons why she should hold her nerve and let 762 - > the date kind of ride. 763 - > Um, what the pricing assistant will likely look at is your comp 764 - > set pacing.

765 - > So the auto, the automatic comp sets that we generate comparing 766 - > this listing. 767 - > We're gonna look at the booking lead time, see whether we're in 768 - > it or we're not in it. 769 - > And it sounds like we're not quite in the booking window. 770 - > Um, or if we are, we've just entered it.

771 - > We're also going to want to look at how you compare how the 772 - > current price compares to the other units that are being 773 - > priced that are in your comp set. 774 - > And then obviously some of those policies that are very 775 - > important and impact, uh, impact the bookability, the minimum 776 - > stay, the cancellation. 777 - > And then, of course, last but not least, you want to make sure 778 - > that the listing in and of itself is showcased in the best 779 - > possible light.

780 - > And there are there are simple things. 781 - > You know, if we're talking about a fall or a winter date, 782 - > the pictures that you show in the in those seasons should be 783 - > different than the pictures that you show in the summer seasons, 784 - > that you want to highlight different amenities. 785 - > Um, so I think all of those things can help an owner stay at 786 - > ease and you don't want to undersell the night, not only 787 - > for the owner's sake, but also for, you know, for for your 788 - > other owners who now all of a sudden think that there's some 789 - > fire cell happening and that everybody needs to fill up their 790 - > calendars.

791 - > So helping owners hold their nerve through a simplistic way 792 - > of explaining and showing the data is is a great use case for 793 - > agents. 794 - > Um, within beyond, you can connect your Claud, um, you can 795 - > even visualize it. 796 - > You know, I like charts and graphs versus uh versus just uh 797 - > a wall of text. 798 - > But those are some of the things I think you can do to be 799 - > proactive in advance of these owners coming to you.

800 - > And when they do come to you, that you're they know that 801 - > you're on it. 802 - > I validate their concerns. 803 - > Everyone wants it to be validated, right? 804 - > Right.

805 - > Annie Holcombe: Yeah, I love the hold your nerve. 806 - > I think that's that's so great. 807 - > It's like I feel like more often not we want to tell owners 808 - > to hold their tongue, but hold their nerve is like really 809 - > important. 810 - > And and it's interesting because I think Park City is a 811 - > great example in that I hear all the time like, oh, well, the 812 - > booking window is X, because the conversation about changing the 813 - > photos, you know, I'm always like, you need to change your 814 - > photos.

815 - > And they're like, well, my booking window is you know six 816 - > months out for these homes. 817 - > It's like, is that direct or is it on the OTA? 818 - > Because I guarantee that that's not the same. 819 - > And I think that they don't take that into consideration 820 - > that maybe one, they get to tell the whole story on their 821 - > website, but on the OTA, they're having to tell the customer 822 - > that's working at that time.

823 - > And that customer is definitely different. 824 - > So I think that it's like the owner may come with all this 825 - > feedback, but the if you have the data to be able to show them 826 - > the things to back it up, it it's it the conversation goes 827 - > much, it doesn't always win and it doesn't always land because 828 - > sometimes these people are just so either emotionally attached 829 - > to it or they're coming at you as the educator and they know 830 - > more than you could ever possibly know about the 831 - > business, you know.

832 - > So depends on on the owner. 833 - > But I think there's just like you have to really understand 834 - > that when you're doing your your um your strategy, you do have 835 - > to look at direct different than your OTA, but then you just put 836 - > all that data and kind of find the happy medium with what you 837 - > want to share versus what you don't want to share. 838 - > Julie Brinkman: Absolutely. 839 - > Yeah, it's all about balance.

840 - > Alex Husner: Well, those were three great letters. 841 - > And to the audience, if you have a revenue question, please 842 - > go ahead and send it in to us. 843 - > You can send it on LinkedIn or you can go to our website, um, 844 - > send it through the contact form. 845 - > We'd love to hear more because we've got Julie coming on for 846 - > several more episodes over the next few months to talk about 847 - > revenue.

848 - > So um that's kind of fun. 849 - > Life in the field. 850 - > Um, but the next thing we want to do that we've done for uh the 851 - > last revenue reality check is we look at three things from 852 - > Julie that she suggests that you should stop, start, or scale as 853 - > far as your revenue management. 854 - > So what would you say to stop right now?

855 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, I mean, I think what these examples point 856 - > to is the need to stop being reactive with your optionality. 857 - > Uh the more that you can build trust with your owners and build 858 - > in the ability to be flexible with stays, with rates, with 859 - > content, the better chance that you have to be proactive and to 860 - > be strategic with the um with optimizing revenue. 861 - > I think what trap we fall into when we're treating flexible, 862 - > you know, flexibility or sort of like, hey, this isn't selling, 863 - > so we need to discount it.

864 - > We're backed up into a corner, the owner feels backed up into a 865 - > corner, and that's their only option. 866 - > That's not a great dynamic between you and the owner. 867 - > And so being, there's a customer we have down in North 868 - > Carolina who is worked toward, you know, North Carolina is 869 - > especially the outer banks, notorious for owner needs to 870 - > approve everything. 871 - > The rate card is in the contract.

872 - > And they do it for three years to get the owners to give full, 873 - > full bore uh control to the property managers. 874 - > And that's this was something that they said that they were 875 - > going to do and they've done year after year, get just 876 - > getting more and more owners to relinquish that control by 877 - > building that trust, by delivering returns. 878 - > And so I'd say, I'd say stop being reactive with those um 879 - > with discounts by being proactive and building trust 880 - > with your owners.

881 - > Annie Holcombe: Okay. 882 - > So they stop that. 883 - > So what should they start? 884 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, I mean, I think so.

885 - > This the start is it really goes back to start building 886 - > trust and start really using that data in your conversations 887 - > with your owners. 888 - > Start to communicate this is what your market is and and show 889 - > them their comp set. 890 - > Show them what their comp sets are uh showing from a 891 - > cancellation policy from a minimum stay um standpoint, you 892 - > know, the the the number of available nights that they have, 893 - > all of those things are incredibly important.

894 - > So start to speak in data, not in anecdote. 895 - > You know, I think data applied through anecdotes, but not in 896 - > sort of um beliefs or assumptions, but rather like 897 - > really grounded in data. 898 - > Alex Husner: Yep. 899 - > It just makes the conversation so much easier when you've got 900 - > something to back you up.

901 - > That's the main thing. 902 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah. 903 - > And what do they scale? 904 - > Yeah.

905 - > And I think that goes, I think that is where, you know, I'm 906 - > telling you to use data to back up your conversations with 907 - > owners. 908 - > And more often than not, I run into folks who are like, okay, 909 - > well, I have seven systems I need to look at in order to tell 910 - > the story. 911 - > And so that's not scale, that's not efficient, that's not 912 - > streamlined. 913 - > You need to scale your team's ability to get the story quickly 914 - > and get the data quickly through a single system.

915 - > And so scale your team's ability to get the data and the 916 - > story through one system versus having to pull from GA, from 917 - > your data provider, from your RMS, from your PMS, and then 918 - > stitch together the story. 919 - > That's how you can really empower them to have these 920 - > proactive data-backed conversations with owners. 921 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. 922 - > It's like if you already, you know, these notes that we got 923 - > today, if you already build out those scenarios and work through 924 - > them with your team and you've got those playbooks ready to 925 - > roll.

926 - > I mean, when it's peak season and you don't have time to 927 - > think, you've you keep a binder, you know, do a notion notebook 928 - > online or however you want to organize it. 929 - > But it's like if you already have these things planned out, 930 - > it makes it so much easier when the when the time is. 931 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah. 932 - > Playbooks, playbooks for days.

933 - > Alex Husner: Yeah. 934 - > And sometimes you can experiment with it. 935 - > You know, it's like if you go with one playbook and you say 936 - > this is what we're going to do in this scenario, and then you 937 - > know, iterate off of it, see how it worked, come back to it, and 938 - > then revise as needed. 939 - > So it just helps bring more collaboration, I think, within 940 - > the company, too, to make sure you're doing the right thing.

941 - > Annie Holcombe: So I think um for for beyond, it would be 942 - > really great if there was like a help tool that was Julie that 943 - > people could just make up. 944 - > Yeah, a helpline that they could talk to Julie within the 945 - > tool, just ask them their question and you could pop up 946 - > and give them the answers. 947 - > This is all kind of stuff. 948 - > Julie Brinkman: I'm gonna go, girl, you email me, I'm 949 - > answering you.

950 - > I love it. 951 - > I love it. 952 - > It's been great. 953 - > Annie Holcombe: Well, it's great to like get into your brain 954 - > because I know that that's there's a lot in there, and you 955 - > guys are doing tremendous work to help partners really navigate 956 - > this stuff because it is an ever-evolving topic.

957 - > And so I think it's super important. 958 - > And you answered these questions great. 959 - > And hopefully we'll get some more questions for the next 960 - > time. 961 - > So come prepared with that knowledge bank of yours.

962 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, I love it. 963 - > I love it. 964 - > Awesome. 965 - > Well, until next time, Julie, if anybody wants to get in touch 966 - > with you, if they want to reach out directly, they can't wait 967 - > until the next one.

968 - > Uh, what's the best way for them to reach out? 969 - > Julie Brinkman: Yeah, you find me on LinkedIn. 970 - > Um, you can always email me, Julie at beyondpricing.com.

971 - > And I really enjoyed getting these questions. 972 - > I mean, it's my love language, it's it's what I spend my time 973 - > thinking about and waking up to. 974 - > Um, so uh thank you, Alex and Annie, for for asking your 975 - > listeners to send in these questions. 976 - > Because it's, I mean, this is all real stuff we deal with, 977 - > right?

978 - > Alex Husner: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 979 - > And especially, I mean, this time of year, there's not a lot 980 - > of conferences going on, and I think people feel like they're 981 - > on an island. 982 - > But you know, part of when we started the podcast, we wanted 983 - > to help people not feel like they're on an island. 984 - > So if you have questions, send them to us and we will get them 985 - > answered for you.

986 - > But uh in the meantime, if anybody wants to get in touch 987 - > with Annie and I, you can go to alexandypodcast.com. 988 - > Thanks for tuning in, everybody.