Raising Human Leaders in an AI World with Aubrey Schmalley

Speaker A: As, uh, the amount of computer use, not just over Covid, but even starting with just the introduction of ed tech came to be core to education. The types of children that were coming to see me had very, very different profiles and were struggling not just in one area, but in multiple areas of social skills and learning and development. So. So I really needed a way to get to the educators and the parents and say, hey, what's going on here? And is this something we can do something about from a brain and body standpoint so that our children do become leaders and creators, not consumers and victims of technology?

Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to AI with Bri, the show where we're cutting through the noise and helping leaders learn, leverage and lead with AI. I'm Brian Dunstead, and you can think of me as your chief AI officer helping you find your path. Here is a question that nobody in the AI industry is asking. What are we actually doing to the children who are going to grow up inside the world we're building right now? Today's guest has spent over 20 years working with kids whose brains and bodies process the world differently, and she just wrote a book on what it actually takes to raise a child who thrives alongside AI instead of being swallowed by it. Aubrey Schmalley is an occupational therapist, speaker, and author of Uniquely Raising Leaders and Creators in an AI World. She owns Sensational Achievements in Connecticut and has been featured on Fox and contributes to publications like Dyspraxia Magazine and Westfair Business Journal. Her clinical lens on child development in a digital world is one that every parent educator and AI builder needs to hear. And me, as a father of three girls, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Aubrey, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Speaker B: I am so excited to talk to you and kind of unpack this. If we jump into the learn segment here. I mean, 20 years of working with like, Neurodiverse children, and now you've written a book about specifically AI and child development. Like, wow, I'm going to learn so much today. Tell us a little bit more about sensational achievements and what led you to write Uniquely Human.

Speaker A: So, uh, in 2015, I created a frame called Framework called Body Activated Learning, which was to help teachers capitalize on the way that the brain and the body needs to move in order to optimize learning in the classroom. And then from there as, uh, the amount of computer use, not just over Covid, but even starting with just the introduction of ed tech, came to be core to education. The types of children that were coming to see me, had very, very different profiles and were struggling not just in one area, but in multiple areas of social skills and learning and development. So I really needed a way, uh, to get to the educators and the parents and say, hey, what's going on here? And is this something we can do something about from a brain and body standpoint so that our children do become leaders and creators, not consumers and victims of technology?

Speaker B: Mhm. Well said, well said. I mean, what are you kind of seeing in the clinic right now? I mean, uh, you're working with. The children today in my opinion are way different than the ones that we grew up as or even 10 years ago. How much of that change do you connect to the screens, the AI driven content, the digital environment that these kids are growing up in?

Speaker A: Quite a lot actually. Um, I think one, medically we have so much, um, so many advancements in technology. We genuinely are uh, having more neurodiverse children coming into the world at baseline. The second piece is we've shifted so many of the micro opportunities in our environment. Think how many things are contactless, how many times our children just see us tap our phone or look at our phone, but they, they have no idea what we're doing in the background. They don't see us taking money out of our wallet, they don't see us paying bills and writing the check at the grocery store checkout counter. It's all invisible behind the scenes. And so all of those opportunities that children used to have to either model or monitor what their parents are doing or experience it in a hands on interactive way for themselves have been significantly reduced as we have made more and more things online and pushed people into uh, visual and auditory content rather than multi sensory, real world sensory experiences to help them learn and grow and reason.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I see like, you know, I was watching some video on TikTok about, about communities and neighborhoods and how like the European city model of like you get to, to the bank or the grocery store or the school and you get all these opportunities for these little social interactions that you can take or not take. And then in the American suburban thing, everything's centered around us going from one bubble to another bubble to another bubble in the cars. So there's just something about getting outside and opening the doors to what life might throw at you. I'm curious though, are you seeing for, you know, you work with a lot of people on the autism spectrum and neurodiverse, like you were saying, what have you learned about AI tools that specifically with those differences is Is it helping or making things harder?

Speaker A: So uh, the kids that are coming in, they don't have the same level of resilience, the same level of persistence, uh, that we've seen in past generations. They, they do give up easily. At the same time they're also offered many technology accommodations that appear to be shortcuts. But at the end of the day, using Grammarly or setting up tools to decrease visual distractions, the kids still aren't turning in their work. Even from a basic standpoint of uh, it takes 12 steps to use Google Classroom just to turn into an assignment. So if you have problems with executive function, it's not actually easier using a lot of the accommodations. It's harder because now you have to do three, four and five more steps than everyone else just to get the work done. And so what we think is a great online tool ends up being an Achilles heel from a different standpoint. And so the children are still feeling very frustrated and they're still needing quite a lot of support, support just to manage the day to day. Where I think it has been amazing is the amount of things that we can do with communication devices, ways we can really customize to facilitate avenues for communication for children who can't speak, that has been phenomenal. Uh, but there's nothing in edtech that has actually shown that edtech facilitates learning. And the research by um, Dr. Jared Horvath actually shows that since edtech got introduced into the system we've seen nothing but a decline in reading and math scores. And we cannot attribute it to just the COVID gap because it was pre existing before that. So we need a different way to teach. And I think it's very interesting that they've come up with these AI schools, what they call um, do two hours of the online learning and then four hours of in person interactive. Build a company, do something amazing. I don't know that it's the two hours of online work. It's the four hours of those opportunities to collaborate, to explore, to build, to learn how to create something. That's where all of the brain development is happening. And then the online work becomes easier.

Speaker B: Yeah, a hundred percent. I can, I can see that completely. I uh, the anecdote that's popping in my head is, is that I do agree because I think I encourage my kids to read all the time but then I, I find one of, one of my kids honestly having very detailed in depth conversations with the Amazon Echo devices in, you know, and she is very much so all into space right now and amazes Me with the facts that her and Amazon have discussed together and comes and asks me questions about black holes. It's really, really powerful to see the depth that she is learning through just those vocal interactions. But at the same time, I want her to get even better at the reading pieces of it because I know that's going to set her up for the future. I mean, you're.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I think that one of the things that sounds like your daughter has that maybe a lot of kids don't have is that ability to generate the movie in your mind. And it's, uh, called visualization. And it's built on the ability to, like when someone is saying something, you can actually follow along because you have a movie in your mind. And when you read a book, you can follow along because you have the movie in your mind. The last couple school observations I've been to, I would say 80% of the class does not have the movie in their mind because they've spent so much time engaging with visual content, not auditory and reading content, that it's filled that gap and disrupted the development of that movie. So we want those kids to be able to have amazing conversations. To your point, with, um, with all those auditorily based things, to be able to read, to have that visualization. Because every creator in the world has that ability to visualize what the future is going to be, what that product is going to look like, and how it's going to impact people. But without that, you are setting our kids up for failure. And so we need to create those spaces for that visualization to happen. And then, yeah, all the doors of technology open to you. And you can use a large language model because you yourself have robust language for communication and understanding of processes to, to, uh, to supervise AI with.

Speaker B: I love it. Yeah, very well said. I mean, your book is called Uniquely Human. So I'm curious, like, what did you learn as you were researching and writing the book that you didn't know through the 20 years of clinical practice that you had?

Speaker A: I think I, it's. It was amazing as I was talking to different people, whether it was teenagers or parents, the, the number of missed opportunities a lot of this generation has had. So for example, my, my daughter shared with me that she was the only one at her table at a restaurant at a birthday party event that knew that you weren't supposed to leave money on the table and pay the tip amount that was automatically included in a party of six people or more. And that's such a small thing, but they didn't have enough experience because they spent most of their time using Uber Eats to give themselves food and less time actually in the restaurant and looking at the bill and watching all these things happen. Um, the anxious generation was very popular over the last year. I think it really brought attention to the impact of social media on children. But what was interesting to me is that we might be talking about social media or we might be talking about ed tech, but no one was really having the conversation of, um, okay, so what, what is it that we actually need for those uniquely human skills to develop so that kids can become the next generation of leaders and creators? It's not about using technology, because technology is going to change every couple of months, so by the time the school teaches them, it's going to be outdated. And what we need is more people that need to know how to think. And that's actually where all the gaps are right now with the children.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. It's such a powerful observation that, uh, you know, I think about this a lot as someone who's deeply embedded into AI day to day. The tools are moving, like you just said, so incredibly fast. And the conversation about what they're doing to these developing brains is absent from all the rooms where their tools are being buil. So I really hope our listeners are out there helping drive that change forward as we're building some of these new tools.

Speaker A: Well, and as you think about, um, different parenting decisions in Silicon Valley, they're sending their kids to the Montessori schools and the schools where there isn't a lot of technology. And even inside the companies, they've set up rooms that don't have technology, so specifically for opportunities for rest and recovery, opportunities for collaboration that don't create distraction. So if they're already aware that that's what their people need to succeed, I think there's reasons. If you are a high performer yourself and you're trying to raise high performer children, to think about that and say, how is it that I need to set up my household and my environment to make those tech free spaces and to create those opportunities for making children a part of the family community, contributing to a common goal, showing up for interesting conversations at the table, all those things are really going to cultivate your high performer skills for the future.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And if we dive into this leverage section, I want to stay with the thread you were just on because, you know, the practicalness of this is so important. Right. Your whole book is built around, uh, giving parents and educators the tools, not just a Warning label. Right. So what, let's talk about like responsible leveraging of AI in our world day to day. How are you, how are you using AI? I mean, it's going to permeate every aspect of society whether we want it to or not. Um, how are you using it in your practice? What does it look like when it's working for the kids and the families that you're working with?

Speaker A: Um, so I actually recently used AI with one of my children who uh, was running out of ideas of things that he wanted to build in the gym. And I've been trying to build his creativity and ability to look around his world and create something. Yeah, then I introduced him, I said, well, why don't we ask, you know, ChatGPT, let's see, based on the information we give it, what it's going to come up with. And it came up with the exact ideas that we already thought of. And it was such a great moment for him because he loves technology. He's definitely m going to be very embedded in it when he gets older. But he needed to learn that I should not outsource my brain to it. Right. And so when he saw that it had everything that he had already thought up, I said, well look, we only told it the materials that we have in the gym. And so remember, AI doesn't have any eyes. It can't see the world the way you see the world. So you're responsible for looking around the world and then giving that information to AI. But if you've already thought it up, that's great. That means your brain is working as well with this information as AI is. But we don't go there first. We create the product, we create whatever it is that we want to deliver to the world. And then as an expert you can leverage it to turn it into all kinds of spaces. Like what do I put on social Media? What's my LinkedIn blog post going to look like today? But you've done the thinking. And now he, uh, is much more balanced in the use of his technology. Not just from that one moment, but from having multiple opportunities to practice. Do the thinking first and then go to the tool to leverage the capabilities of it to increase your output.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. I mean I have to teach people how to use AI in these corporate environments and I'm using a similar technique, like really lean into the AI, lay out your vision of what you want and then it's going to come back with the tools or the method to accomplish that objective in some fashion. But even then I Say, question that, though, because it may not be the right tools you may like. I see this all the time. AI recommends X, and I know I've already tried X in the past. It's not the right fit. Go with Y. Y is the better solution here. And then once you tell AI that, it's like, it obviously placates you and says, oh, yeah, you're right, that is a better direction. But. But, you know, we do need to bring our experiences and challenge what the AI is saying, because it's just looking for the bell curve. I'm curious, as we apply this to, like, school districts and stuff, like, for the, for the potential teachers or leaders that are, you know, working with the schools that might be listening to this. I think they're adopting AI tools faster than anyone's really done the studies and the impacts of it. What questions are you hoping that these leaders and administrators are asking before they roll these tools out to the kids?

Speaker A: Well, we have some school districts in our area, I think five or six that have signed up for an AI pilot program to try using it in their high schools. The biggest, uh, gap in education is the opportunity for the teachers to be educated on how to implement technology and AI mindfully. Right. So they're given access or they've been signed up for the program by the district. But then teachers often operate like islands. There's just not a lot of opportunity for them to all work together, come together, and spend a lot of time saying, how do we do this responsibly? And unfortunately, the same thing happened with EdTech. They got a whole bunch of tools and they said, you know, you're supposed to use this, and we're going to track your usage. But nobody took a step back to have a big meeting and say, what are the outcomes and how are you adjusting your teaching strategies so that we can use this? So what I would hope is that more districts actually do take a step back and have professional development, not just from the developers of the AI tools that they want you to use, because those people don't have a lot of experience in development and education, but from, you know, people that have worked with neurodiverse children that also know where some of those gaps are in the thinking and the learning that need to be cultivated so that AI can be a tool, not a replacement. And if they're telling them, do a project that requires X level of skill and your brain is at X level of skill, well, guess what? They're going to outsource. Yeah, they're going to get some Generic product and then you end up being in college and getting flagged for using AI even if you wrote yourself just because it overlaps too much with what AI does.

Speaker B: That's right, yeah. It's so true. I mean we keep talking about real world experiences and the human connection as the best gifts we can give our children In a very tech heavy world. How do we further make the case that to the parents that sees AI tutoring tools and think more AI, more technology is really the answer?

Speaker A: You know, like so think about the brain as operating not in algorithms and not in a linear way, but in a multisensory way. So we used to think the cerebellum, this back part of your brain here was only a motor organ. We now know that it's kind of the core of, to all the rest of your brain in that it has connections to language, to executive function, to complex thinking and reasoning, to uh, you know, playing sports and all the, and all the things that go along with that. You can't, you can't separate movement and, and hands on experiences from how your brain is thinking and learning about the world. Whereas an algorithm, it's just going to feed you the next thing on the menu that it thinks is related.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Your brain has to be able to break out of that. To your point is like, I know that that doesn't work. That's a wrong. You know, I don't need to go down the rabbit hole just because AI wants me to stay on it for six hours. I don't want to be on AI for six hours.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: I need to go out into the world and make my own impact. And so understanding that the key to brain development and the development of uniquely human social skills, language skills, physical skills is spending more time doing collaborative and interactive projects. You know, we've forgotten how to fix our cars. And you watched a lady go to the mechanic and say, uh, you know, how hard is it to change the, change the headlight in my car? And I was like, wait a second, he's going to charge you like $50 to make that happen. And you could literally do it in five minutes if you just open the manual. But we moved away from those physical everyday activities because our generation grew up saying you, uh, need to learn about computers. The Internet is the future. We gotta really get on this WWW thing, right? We can't, we can't leave it behind. So we were told that the blue collar work was down here and that our skills had to be up here. Well, guess what? The blue collar workers are the new millionaires. Why?

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Because nobody knows how to do their job.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: And you don't know enough to be like, no, I don't think I need that car repair that cost $5,000. Maybe I just need that this one piece that needs replace. So I'll go to the small mechanic and he'll do it for me. And all of that critical reasoning. If we just show up more in the world instead of spending more of our time consuming technology, we can go back into AI and be the creators and leverage it for our businesses in the future.

Speaker B: Wow, that was very powerful. I love that. I come back to the skills that you're describing are. It's, it's those basic things. Self regulation, sensory tolerance, um, problem solving, human connections. Those are the skills that the AI is not going to replace anytime soon. So we can't outsource child development to a device that's actually hollowing out these very things that are going to make us very valuable and resilient in this AI world. That's the future. I think that's really the paradox that the child development industry kind of needs to think through and drive forward. So yeah, the last segment here as we try to wrap up is the leadership segment. And I want to put some leadership questions out there because I think they're going to be really interesting from your perspective, uh, I mean me and from everything you've said so far, neither one of us are anti technology, we're just pro human. And you know, you've been working with, you know, you've been running sensational achievements for I think over 15 years now through different regulatory changes, uh, a pandemic financial pressure I'm sure. And now this shifting landscape with AI that, that leadership is, is through so many disruption points is exactly what I think you're going to bring to the table. What belief do you, do you hold about children, technology and AI that the tech industry would generally like push back on something that you're convinced that the mainstream AI conversation hasn't really caught up to yet.

Speaker A: I think meaning and adaptability. M. Right. Is that we as people, we have to be able to adapt to whatever is coming next. And just because there's a tool that seems to make it faster and easier doesn't mean that it's going to lead you to the outcomes that you're looking for. So you know, I, I went through the uh, the Obamacare flow in health care which completely, you know, change the direction of my practice and every Time there was some kind of regulatory disruption. I ended up going back to creating, to be honest. I created in a. I created the framework, I created another book. I created, you know, what is my new direction so that I am not dependent on things that might get regulated to a point or um, or um, shifting at a mass industry level that it would put me out of business overnight because I did that over Covid. I don't need to go back there over Covid. But what came out of COVID more online events, more training, more education. We went back to connecting with people. And so you're always going to need to have the skills to go back to connecting with people, to adding something of value into the community, whether you have a job or that job gets outsourced to AI.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. So very true. I'm curious, as a leader in this space, who's hiring and interviewing and working with others? What do you look for in the other? Therapists, collaborators, educators? That is hidden, doesn't show up on the resume. The thing that lets you know that this person gets what children need in this moment of, of A.I.

Speaker A: m. Um, I actually listen for keywords in the way that they explain things. Uh, if their voice is reflecting

Speaker B: protocols, um,

Speaker A: if they say I have training in this program and that program and this program program over here and they don't tell me that they have that ability to see the puzzle, then they're not going to get hired. Because if you can't see the puzzle, then you can't create that customized solution. And that's both with children and in business because you're only going to learn the tool. And then, you know, uh, we talked about this before we came on the show. You become that 100 level person that is just putting out and regurgitating what you learned how to do with no adaptability and no creativity. And you need to be uh, the 300 level person on your way to being the 500 level person so that there is space for you to grow in your thinking and reasoning.

Speaker B: Love it. And I'm curious, last question as we're wrapping up here. If you look towards the future, what do you hope and how soon do you think we can get there? All these kids who need the protection the most that sort of says they got it and the tools are built for them and we're building them with their development in mind. What's your hope for the future? I guess. Hmm.

Speaker A: My hope or my realist view? My realist view is that it usually takes a generation of kids going from kindergarten to 12 to really kind of turn the tide in the educational system. My daughter was born 2007, the year of the iPhone, and she, I think just got out under the mark where she built a lot of her foundational skills in elementary and middle school and then was using the technology hardcore in high school. We need another generation that goes through an elementary, uh, period where they're getting what they need so that when they get to middle school and high school, they can run with the tools that are going to help them really be successful and adaptable.

Speaker B: Mhm. So well said.

Speaker A: But if you as parents can get ahead of that, I would say do not wait for the school to catch up.

Speaker B: That's right. That's right. I mean, you know, the big takeaways for me, ah, like we have to be raising these leaders and creators in an AI world. It's not about limiting technology, but it's making sure that us parents and teachers and educators are developing the human first. Right. So you have clearly been doing that for many moons now. And I really appreciate you being here and having this conversation with me about AI and childhood development. How do people find your book and connect with you and your work?

Speaker A: So Uniquely Human is available on Amazon. Um, so you can definitely get it there. My website is very easy. Aubreyshmalle.com Same thing on Instagram. Just look my name up. At the moment it's pretty unique, so on pretty easy to find.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, we will make sure that aubreyshmalley.com and uniquely human are linked down below in the show notes. You can click straight through. And again, really appreciate you being here, Aubrey. To everybody out there, if you are a parent, an educator, or an administrator at a school, or anyone building technology that's touching the children that we talked about today, please share this episode with somebody. This conversation needs more to be shared and talked about than it is right now, for sure. Follow our podcast, leave us a review and check out all the ways to connect with Aubry down below in the show notes. I am Brian Denstad. You have been listening to AI with Bri. And remember, the future doesn't wait. Learn, leverage and lead. And we'll see you next week.