From Broadway to Exit: A Performer’s Path to Impact Investing with Lisa Morris, Founder of Road Concierge and Managing Director of AKS Family Partners

Speaker A: Hello, this is, uh, Mark Gerson, the co founder and chairman of three I Members. And I am so delighted to have with us today three I member Lisa Morris. Lisa, welcome to the three I Members podcast.

Speaker B: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker A: Okay, great. So you have the most, uh, interesting background and story that I can imagine. So I'm going to dispense with an introduction because your story will come through in this discussion, I'm sure. Let's start from your youth when you were a theater, uh, kid and you went from being a theater kid to a Broadway actress. So let's start from being a theater kid.

Speaker B: Uh, sure. So I was always a theater kid from the time I got exposed to, um, Fiddler on the Roof when I was five years old. And I was probably the only child whose babysitters were very confused as to why I was afraid of Fruma Sara in my closet instead of another monster. But no, I've always loved theater. I started doing theater professionally as a child.

Speaker A: Um, were you doing Broadway theater as a child?

Speaker B: Not Broadway as a child. I did the Metropolitan Opera, children's chorus. Uh, uh, and I did a lot of, um, My first professional production was the wizard of Oz at Westbury Music Fair. I was a lullaby league munchkin. Um, that was my first time I got paid as an actor. And I think I made $75 per show. And I thought I was so cool.

Speaker A: You were, yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then I actually had the, uh, I was a living legend because I did Annie. But instead of playing Annie, like every young girl hopes to do, I played Sandy the dog. So, um, okay, you know, I had an early lesson in humility. Um, so, yeah, I was lucky. I got, you know, paid to perform as a child. And then I went on the road, uh, with my first, you know, kind of larger Broadway level productions. It was touring Europe. I went out on tour with Evita.

Speaker A: Now I've read and listened to you being, um, 18 years old on a cruise ship.

Speaker B: I also, yeah, I did a cruise ship. That was, that was very interesting.

Speaker A: So you were, you were performing professionally on cruise ships and, uh, you were saying how, uh, what an interesting experience it was. And there were just a few stories from what you've told that really stood out. One is when someone on the cruise ship asked you if you were going to stay on the ship.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that was hilarious. This woman is like, do you guys sleep on the ship as well? It was like, no, we actually dive overboard and swim home after performing for you. The questions you hear on Cruise ships.

Speaker A: Then we swim back.

Speaker B: Hilarious. Um, I had someone also say to me, the filet of soul. Is that like a fish? I'm like, well, yeah, we're not serving shoes. It was pretty hilarious. Um, but, you know, it was also. I had a great life lesson on. On my first cruise ship, um, because I met a woman. To this day, I don't know her name, but she changed my life. Uh, she was an older lady and she was in a wheelchair, and she lived on the ship. I mean, cruise after cruise she stayed. And she gave me a great, valuable lesson, which was, um, to retire early, Travel. Early travel while you're young. Because she said, you know, now I have all this money and time, and my body doesn't really let me go anywhere. So I'm living on a ship. She said, my mind is still sharp. She said, travel while you're a young lady. And I listened to her and I went. I toured for years, um, and spent the majority of my younger life either on a cruise ship or a tour bus or living in another country. And, um, you know, she really encouraged me to do that.

Speaker A: What a beautiful story. It's really the classic story of what Jewish teaching would say an angel is. I mean, the word for angel and messenger are the same thing. And the teaching is that, uh, an angel is someone who is deputized by God in that moment to be an angel delivers an important message and then goes back to being a regular person. And it seems to me that person was your angel.

Speaker B: She was. She was also my nemesis at, uh, Scrabble, though. Could not beat her. She was a monster at Scrabble. She was really good.

Speaker A: Well, she lived on the ship. She had plenty of time to play.

Speaker B: Exactly. And I would play with her all the time. But yeah, so being on a ship is great when you're, you know, 18 years old and traveling to different places all the time.

Speaker A: And what shows were you doing on the ship?

Speaker B: Oh, they were mostly reviews. So it was like, you know, like a beehive style 60s show and a country western show and a Latin, uh, music show, uh, a 1940s radio hour, you know, all of those types of things. And then. And then I left the ships and was doing more proper Broadway musicals. Evita and Cats and shows like that.

Speaker A: When was your first Broadway appearance?

Speaker B: Gosh, I guess it was, um, early 2000s, actually. No, I guess it would technically would be, ah, a show called the New Americans at Alice Tully Hall. Not m sure if it actually qualifies as Broadway. Lincoln center has a strange contract but, um, I was pretty young. It was a show by Elizabeth Suedos, um, who wrote the Runaways. And that was an interesting show as well. But most of my time was really more on Broadway, touring and, uh, Europe. And actually, probably my favorite performing experience was opening mainland China. We were the very first western musical to ever play China. They brought Les Mis over and they brought together sort of the dream cast. So they took some of us from tours, some from London, some from New York, and built this one company that went to China. Um, the BBC followed us around, did a documentary. It was pretty, pretty phenomenal.

Speaker A: I listened to you talking about that, and you said that there was an American group, a Canadian group, a British group, all in Shanghai, performing in China for the first time.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was really, it was really an incredible experience. Um, it just doesn't happen like that. And, you know, to get paid to travel the world is a beautiful thing. And when you tour, it becomes like a little dysfunctional family. Um, so some tours are better than others, depending on who you're touring with. Uh, some cast and crews really come together and become like a family. Others are like a family that hate each other, you know, so it depends on who you're with. But I really consider myself blessed that, you know, I was still a teenager and I was touring through Europe working with, you know, amazing people. And I turned 21 in Hamburg, Germany. Yeah, I just, I had a life experience that a lot of people don't get now. I didn't get the traditional college experience that most kids get. Uh, so my college was cruise ships and tour buses and living in other countries. But I got to meet so many people and learn from them. And I think travel really expands the mind. And when you're young and you get to travel and meet people outside of the community you grew up in, I think it actually does a lot more for you than a traditional college experience where frequently you are with people of the same age, you very rarely go to college and hang out with, you know, 47 year olds that are from Holland, you know, So I think just that experience and that that cross section of humanity that you get to meet, um, really shaped me and I'm very grateful for that time in my life. I miss it a lot sometimes.

Speaker A: But then you had, you made a, what turned out to be a remarkable discovery when you were, um, an actor. And the discovery, uh, was related to the inefficiencies in travel that you and your colleagues were experiencing. So please describe the problem. And unlike most people who see a problem and either Complain about it or accept it. You did something about it and you did something big about it.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I was, as I said, I was touring for a long time and you know, we would get very frustrated because the, again, not to speak badly about uh, other agencies or people, but the reality is the traditional travel agency is uh, more of a corporate setup. So they're acting from the perspective of corporate travel, which is extremely different from entertainment travel. The needs of a performer are very different than the needs of a businessman. And you know, when you come with people that, for example, we work at night and we sleep during the day. So giving us a complimentary breakfast that closes at 9am is not really a perk. Keeping the bar open till 1am where we can get food after the show is a perk. Uh, for the traditional business person. They might want a hotel that has a full service restaurant and room service and that type of a thing. Well, that all costs money when you're an actor living on very little. You want a limited service property with a kitchen. You want to be able to cook, you want a microwave and a fridge. You want uh, the ability to do your laundry because you don't get to go home every three days you're living out there. And so a hotel, a five star hotel would charge you $30 for a pair of underwear to wash it. You know, so you wanted a place where you could do your own laundry, where you could drink after the show and where you could prepare your own food, uh, where you could bring a pet, where you could park for free.

Speaker A: And also, um, where you were saying that some uh, members of the cast are going to be celebrities and you got to account for that.

Speaker B: Right? Well that's a whole other level. Um, that's then your concern. So that's a lot of what I book now. I still have a travel business, uh, and I do a lot of celebrities. And with a celebrity it's a very different experience. Um, they're not looking to cook their own meals and do their own laundry. They're looking for a private entrance. They're looking for um, 24 hour room service where they don't have to go and be seen, uh, in the public areas. They're looking for discretion and security and a place for m, frequently an adjoining suite for a nanny, um, or other staff, a security or a nanny. They might want uh, to take an entire floor so that they're not um, bombarded or recognized. They need the discretion of staff to make sure that they're not publicized, that they're there. Uh, they usually will use a different name. So it's a, it's a very different type of service, but it's the same idea, which is customizing the service to the client, not putting them in a cookie cutter. This is how we do travel. This is how we book travel, I think. And, uh, that's true for any good business is, I think, being flexible and customizable to meet the specific needs of that person instead of trying to fit them into what's convenient for you. And I think that's what I felt that other travel companies did. They wanted us to fit into their mold instead of us creating a new mold around the client.

Speaker A: So that's what you created. So you noticed all of these, uh, discrepancies, all these highly specific needs to a good sized market that weren't even being close to being met. And you said, let's form road concierge.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I would like to say that it was that thoughtful. It really wasn't. I was an accidental entrepreneur. I really set it up to make my own life better, my own travel. And then I started doing it, uh, for a few others. It was meant to be a side hustle. It was never. I wasn't charging money when I started doing it. It was for my own tour. I was on tour and I would just negotiate my own deals and post a signup sheet for the hotel, and everybody would come onto my hotel. Um, so I really stumbled into doing it. And actually it was a tour manager from one of the tours I was on that gave me my first big break because he left to do the show of the tour of Jersey Boys. And he said to me, you've done a better job than our travel agent all year. Why don't you do the travel for Jersey Boys? And that's when I thought, oh, well, I'd have to charge something. And I started doing Jersey Boys. And then I got a call from Spamalot and then Hairspray. And that's when I was like, this is a real business. So I quit acting and I formed the company. And I formed the company with a, you know, basically a laptop and a.

Speaker A: And a cell phone and the knowledge of all the specific needs of the acting community.

Speaker B: Exactly. And so it was really, um, I built it very organically. It was not, uh, I didn't have a business plan. I didn't have a degree from Wharton. I didn't have an mba. But I was aggressive and I hustled and I got clients and I negotiated. And, um, you know, I've been Taught to haggle from the time I was a little girl going to a flea market. So I haggle, you know, I would always get those prices down at the hotels, which is what most of the people wanted. It was the best price possible. Um, and it just grew from there. And then, uh, one of my other favorite little stories, um, of being a young entrepreneur was how much I bartered. I did not raise capital. I owned 100% of my company when I sold it. I did not have any outside capital, but startup costs, um, I, were very minimal for me. I, I shouldn't really say this, but this is just for the 3i community.

Speaker A: Well, I think it goes out. No, it goes out more broadly.

Speaker B: Okay, well, suffice it to say, I found an intriguing way is to get lawyers and accountants to do me favors and set up my company for me, um, via, via JDate.

Speaker A: JDate. Wow, that's so interesting. I, yeah, I remember back in the

Speaker B: day, uh, that's when it first came out and I just, you know, you'd go on a couple of dates and you'd find out somebody was a lawyer and say, oh, you know, I'm trying to do this. Do you have any advice? And the next thing you know it's like, oh, I could set that up for you. So, um, I might have used that a little bit to my advantage. Um, but you know, basic things like setting up, uh, an S corp, nothing. That was extensive, uh, work.

Speaker A: I also read that you were giving, uh, singing lessons, acting lessons, all kinds of things in exchange for legal, ah, services, accounting services, whoever needed to start a business.

Speaker B: Exactly. So I really, I traded what I had. You know, it was like, okay, I know how to give. I was actually, um, doing massage therapy. So I've did massages, I taught voice lessons, I um, babysat, you know, whatever I had to do to get the services done for me. Uh, and then, um, I got a really interesting first office. Um, I made a deal with a hedge fund that needed a receptionist that I would work very inexpensively, um, if they would give me health insurance and let me use their office as my office. And they didn't really need a lot because they had their own phones at the trading desk. What they really needed was a person to sit up front and accept food orders because the delivery guys could never find them because it was like a U shaped office. And then if they had a meeting, they needed a woman to, or a person, I should say, to bring that person to the conference room and give them water. So there was really very little work, and they didn't want to pay a high salary for that. And so I said, look, I'm your perfect solution. I will come every day. I will bring you coffee, I will set up the conference room, and I'm going to run my business, and you let me use your prestigious Wall street address. And so that's how that happened, because

Speaker A: you needed a New York address to run a real business.

Speaker B: Right. Because people. Yes. And this is before we work and things like that. So, yeah, I didn't want to pay for a New York office when I didn't need one. Everything I was doing was online. It was just phone and computer. But that. That way I had a prestigious address. If someone did ever want to meet me. I had a conference room, and I didn't stay there long. And it was funny. I got out just in time. I started doing well enough that I could afford my own office, so I left. And that was right before the 2008, uh, kind of crash. And then that hedge fund went under, and one of the guys that I used to bring coffee to every day now works for me.

Speaker A: You hired your boss?

Speaker B: I hired. Well, he wasn't my direct boss, but I hired someone that was certainly superior in the company to the receptionist, and he still works for me today.

Speaker A: Um, what a great entrepreneurial story and such a great insight. So you didn't go to college, you didn't go to business school, but instead, you had something that graduates of college and business school don't have, which is deep customer knowledge and grit. And you use the combination of those two things to create what became a remarkable business that you sold. Uh, when did you sell road concierge?

Speaker B: I sold it in 2012. Uh, and actually, there is a correction. I did go to college. Um, I got a degree from college. I should say so. I. I do have a degree. Um, and in fact, I have a graduate degree as well, but I never went in a traditional way, so I was doing what now would be considered distance learning, but before online classes. So back in the day, the only universities that were real where you could get a real degree, not like these, you know, embarrassing television commercial. Uh, NYU Gallatin and University without Walls at Skidmore. And I went to Skidmore, so my degree is from Skidmore University, so it's not like I'm. Or Skidmore College. It's not like I have no degree. But you're. I did not study business. Uh, I was a. An English and theater major with a music minor and a PhD in entrepreneurship in life Lessons. Absolutely.

Speaker A: And life lessons. Right, right. Um, okay, so 2012, you sell, um. What's the process of selling the business like? So that's new for you, too. I mean, you're the accidental entrepreneur. Absolutely. With an incredible story, kind of a story you don't hear about. And, uh, so the business must, uh, take off, because when did you start it to. When did you sell it in 2012? It wasn't that long.

Speaker B: Right. I started it at the end of 2007.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, five years. Yeah. Sold it in 2012. And, you know, it was really fascinating. I knew nothing about M and A, in fact, so I tell this story because I think it's so amusing. Um, the first guy to ask me about my ebitda, I didn't know what that was. I mean, that's not a normal word.

Speaker A: What do you think it was?

Speaker B: Well, I honestly thought he was being. I thought he was hitting on me, because what he said was, what does your EBITDA look like? And I was like, what? How dare you? And then I realized what it actually was, and I thought it was, and we had a great laugh about it. Um, he's not the person I sold to. I actually had five different offers of acquisition, and they were all structured. Structured completely differently, which is really amazing. I learned a ton. I learned a ton. Um, really what happened was that I was growing so quickly. I was taking a lot of market share away from bigger companies, and they were like, who is this woman? I didn't come from one of their competitors. I just kind of sprung up out of nowhere and started taking clients that they'd had for years.

Speaker A: So these were traditional travel companies that were trying to serve the acting community. And we're losing to you all the time.

Speaker B: Well, not just the. When it was just the acting community, it wasn't so exciting for people. That was a niche. What happened is, uh, as soon as I started building that, then I got into music and then film and television, and then I started doing sports and then corporate travel. And so I just grew it. And so it was really when I started digging into their, you know, their corporate travel clients, or when I started taking, um, film clients that they'd had or music clients, that's when they took notice of me with theater. I was still kind of under the radar. Um, so you.

Speaker A: So you had made road concierge into a diversified business of various forms of entertainment.

Speaker B: Exactly. So for me, you know, my first music client, my first big music client was the artist formerly known as Prince, and that opened so many doors for me, because to have one of your first clients in a certain sector be a world famous name. As soon as people knew I handled Prince, then it was like, oh, well then you're good enough to handle my artists. And so that opened so many doors for me. Um, and so then I started building in music and then that turned into. So, yeah, it all again organically just built. Um, and travel is travel. You just have to adapt for the market for what they need. And so I ended up being on the radar of these companies. Um, some of whom wanted to buy me to get me to leave. So they really just wanted to buy me out. They wanted to buy my company and get me to go away. Um, others, others wanted to buy me to get me to run their company, which was not of interest. And then I had two that wanted to buy me to help me grow, which is what I wanted. I wasn't looking to get out, I was looking for support. I was growing so quickly. I was reaching burnout. I couldn't keep up. I didn't have the cash flow to hire. That was one of my biggest challenges. So with travel, you work on commission, but you only get paid after the group stays. So I might be booking in say 2009 for a group that's not going to stay until 2010. So I'm not going to get paid until 2010. So how do I hire the support team in 2009 when I'm not receiving the money till 2010? You can only do that if you have enough cash flow. So a bigger company would say, okay, you can justify essentially advancing salaries or laying out money for expansion based on the contracts you have in place. But I didn't have the capacity to do that. And I was having to turn down business because I knew I didn't have enough people to handle the business. And I also didn't have enough cash flow to hire. So that was a big reason I wanted to sell, was to grow.

Speaker A: So who did you sell to in 2012?

Speaker B: I sold to Altur.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Uh, which at the time was about a two billion dollar company. And I did not sell to the highest bidder. Um, Alter did not give me the biggest offer financially, but I knew instantly it was the right company for me. Uh, the CEO I had gone through, I had gone through. It was another company I had gone very far down the path with. We had done all of the diligence. We were about to close and then they were being, I thought, very unfair to me in the valuation of my company because I had all these Other offers that were higher. And I said, look, you know, I understand you're not going to pay me that the highest offer, but I really think we need to meet in the middle here because you're. You're really under. Underpaying me substantially on the multiple of ebitda. And that guy just was like, well, then it's not going to work because I'm not paying you more. This is what we think your company's worth. So I walked away from it. And then I met the CEO of altor and he asked me why it didn't work out. And I told him and he said, well, what were you asking for? And I told him and he said, done. Um, I mean, he agreed to buy my business. In our first meeting, we had lunch, and he was the perfect person to sell to.

Speaker A: So after you sold the business, were you still getting the proverbial 3:00am um, call? Now, I've, uh, read that, um, that you were dealing mostly with, not with the talent, but with their managers. Except in one case, uh, a talent who you did not name called you at 2:30 in the morning and wondered where he was.

Speaker B: Wait, where are you finding all of this now? I want to know your intel on me.

Speaker A: It's all on mine.

Speaker B: Wow. My gosh. You know more about me.

Speaker A: No, you're such an interesting interviewee, though. There are several interviews with you. They're all great. I, I love listening to all of them. But, uh, yeah, There was a 2:30am so you get a 2:30am m call from some actor who you didn't name, but you implied he was famous.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was actually a musician, not an actor. But, yeah, I get this call. Uh, it was hilarious because I'm thinking, you know, normally I dealt with his manager, not him. I didn't even know how he got my phone number. And he's like, I, uh, don't know where I am. And I was like, so I get out of bed and I pull up the sheets, and I'm like, well, this is where you're supposed to be. And he's like, I'm not sure I'm there. And I was like, okay, well, what do you see around you? And I literally guided him into an elevator, asked him to go to the front desk, ask them where he was, tell me where he was. And then I could tell him how to get to where he was supposed to be. But it was just one of the funniest.

Speaker A: Was he in his hotel?

Speaker B: He was in a different hotel.

Speaker A: Oh, okay.

Speaker B: And that's why he Didn't. And he's like, I'm not sure. I don't think this is where I'm supposed to. He was trashed. I mean he was absolutely hammer.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I have no idea how he found my number though. We'd like never had a conversation other than initially getting hired him a car.

Speaker A: Was this pre or post Uber?

Speaker B: This is actually. It wasn't, it wasn't Uber. I knew the car. You know we have a black car

Speaker A: for him uh, at 2:30 in the morning ready to go.

Speaker B: Yeah, that I can do. I can pull off lots of travel miracles. I mean amazing Prince. I had to, for Prince, I had to rent a, I had to get a yacht. Uh, well a small boat, not a yacht like in the Hamptons. I had to get a boat to take him out the next day because he decided, you know, in the middle of the night that's what he wanted to do the next day. So sometimes you have to be a bit of a magician. Uh, which is part of why I sold this company. That's the stuff I did not want to do anymore. And I don't do now. Now you know, I don't, I don't deal with those things anymore. Uh, it is still a 24 hour business but I, I moved on from the company. I do still, I am still with the company but I'm no longer the operational person that has to deal with that every day. Um, but yeah, Altur ended up rolling up. So I sold to Altur and then altor, uh, sold to Internova, ah, travel group. So my business is currently owned by Internova.

Speaker A: And how did you get from um, being a travel entrepreneur who sold her company to uh, the world of family, uh, offices and professional uh, investing?

Speaker B: Yeah. So again everything in my life's been accidental but amazing. When I was still a travel person I was hired by a family office group to help do their conference. Just conference services, you know, registration and badges. But they wanted me on site so I went out to Park City and the night before, this is when impact investing was first a thing. So Justin Rockefeller came out there to talk about launching the Impact and it was sort of uh, the new hot topic amongst family offices. Um, and the night before we were supposed to do the conference, the gentleman who was supposed to give the opening remarks, aligning your assets and your values, what impact investing is. And then um, moderate. Justin's panel was a nervous public speaker and he was absolutely freaked out that he had to go first. And I said I'm an actor, I'll work with you on this. So I sat in his hotel room for like four hours rehearsing, like a monologue, this five, five minute speech. I went to bed, I get up the next day, I'm, um, handing out badges, I'm telling people where coffee is. And the organizers run over and say, we need to start, and he won't go on the stage. He was sweating, hyperventilating. And I said, look, I know your speech. Do you want me to just give your speech? And he said, yes. So I went out there and gave the aligning, uh, your assets and your values talk and moderated the panel. And that was it. That I could do in my sleep. Well, because of that somehow, and to this day, I don't know who, but because I was a speaker, I got listed somewhere as an expert in impact investing for family offices. And then I started getting invited to all these other family office conferences because they wanted to know about impact investing. Now for me, it's just this strange little world of interesting people. And I thought, sure, why not? So I started going and I made friends with all of these families because I was delightful to them. Because guess what? I wasn't raising capital. I was not selling a service. I was not trying to become their anything other than kind of a fun girl that they thought was refreshing and could talk about theater and golf. And I just made friends. And then I sold the company right after that. And so then I suddenly had money and I wanted to start investing. And I knew I wanted to start with impact investing, the thing I had just apparently become an expert in. Um, and so I did, and I started calling some families that I met and saying, listen, I just sold my company. Um, I'm new to investing. Is there, you know, can you help guide me if you have an allocation? Can I maybe get a little piece? Can I throw one of my little baby checks in with your bigger checks? And a lot of them were very kind and said, absolutely. And so I sort of just started investing alongside families, um, very early on. But it wasn't until 2020 that I started working in the space. I was simply a friend to families and sometimes a co investor. And that was it. Um, I would really say I was just an angel investor with a really good network. And then what happened was the pandemic. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, having your income come from large group travel for live entertainment was a very bad place to be.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: So we went from highly successful to zero overnight. Had absolutely no idea when and if performing was coming back, touring was Coming back, all of the contracts I had already done got canceled. All the meetings, all the. Everything canceled. And, um, a company called Force Family Office. Who are. They're not a family office. They're a network. They're like a deal flow network, Family Office Network. Um, I was always on their list of investors, so they would reach out and say, hey, you know, we've got a company doing xyz, can we introduce you? That's how they, they make one on, um, one introductions. And they reached out to me and I said, please get me out of your database. And the CEO got that message. And he knew me personally. I had actually invested in some of the companies they'd shown me over the years. And he called and said, what did I do wrong? I said, oh, you've done nothing wrong. I just have no money to invest. That's why I don't want to be in your database, because I don't want to waste anyone's time. And he said, oh, my gosh, I didn't think about how this would affect you. I said, yeah, I'm in entertainment and hospitality, like the two hardest hit industries by the Pandemic. He said, come work for me. And I said, wait, I thought you. I said, I'm not licensed. I can't work for you. He said, I'm not a broker dealer. I said, oh, I just assumed. I never asked him his business model. I always assumed that he just got paid if I invested. But instead, no, they actually are. They're consultants. They get hired to make introductions on a. On a fee basis, not on a success fee basis. So he could hire me. And he hired me and I started working, uh, with them. And, uh, then through a lot of outreach for them, uh, the family I work for now, I kept bothering them to look at life science and biotech deals because I didn't know a lot of people in my network that looked at that. And Forrest had a lot of those clients. And so I kept asking him and, um, long story short, he ended up saying, you need to come work for me. And so then I started working for his family office, and then I switched my role at Force to do philanthropy for them. So I still have a great relationship with Force. I head up their philanthropic initiatives, and I work as the managing director for a single family office, which is, uh, how I now I'm basically a family office executive. So I went from performer to entrepreneur to angel investor to connector to family office executive. And that was my path.

Speaker A: Now, you've also said that being a Broadway performer is the perfect training to being a businesswoman.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: How's that?

Speaker B: Well, first of all, you learn how to face rejection over and over again and get back up. It's the rock.

Speaker A: Because you're constantly auditioning for parts that you're not getting.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Always. You're spending your entire life saying, pick me, choose me, I'm the best. And it's up to someone else. And you, uh, never know why. And a lot of times it has nothing to do with your talent, which is the same thing as a business. You might have the absolute best business, but guess what? They're going to invest in the guy that they are at the country club with because they know him. Or they're going to invest in a fund because it has a name behind it that they recognize. And a lot of times, the best entrepreneurs don't get looked at at all because they're not in the circle. It's about access. And so as a performer, it's kind of similar. If you don't have the right agent to get you in, you don't have the name, you have to go to every audition, every open call. You have to realize that, you know, if you're rejected, it's frequently not having anything to do with you. You might not have the right look.

Speaker A: So you learn from being a performer. You don't take rejection personally. It's not about you. It's about them or something else.

Speaker B: Exactly. You also learn, I, uh, I believe as a performer, how to read people. That's really important.

Speaker A: Uh, how do you learn that as a performer? You're on stage, I'm in the audience. Are you reading me?

Speaker B: You can absolutely feel when an audience is with you and when they're not. How you're not. The laughs aren't coming at the moment they're supposed to come. The reactions are not happening. You know, when an audience is engaged and when they're not, you feel it, and you sometimes want to pivot a bit to make it work. But also just on the performing side, when you're doing a scene with somebody, you're having to react frequently to what they're doing in that moment. Uh, one thing about live theater, you're not seeing the same performance every night a lot of the time. And so you have to be able to adapt. But I think it's also an interpersonal skill. I think when you work in theater or in the creative arts, you really have to connect to people on a very different level. They're not data.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: They're not a spreadsheet. You are having to connect and convince and create an energy exchange that when that's not right, that's there's no magic. Right. When they say people like, you'll hear somebody say about a performer, like she just has that special quality and it's undefinable. Well, usually that special quality is the ability to connect. It's an authenticity that makes somebody say, I believe this person, I like this person, I want to be around this person. This person gives off an energy that I find exciting. And I, you know, I want to listen to them sing or I want to follow their podcast, whatever it is. And I think when you, um, come from a background of communication, that's a skill that is essential in almost anything you do in life. Unless you really are just sitting behind a screen crunching numbers and letting an algorithm do your work. If you are trying to create a business relationship, trying to create a relationship between co investors, trying to. Anything you do involves, in my mind, connecting on an authentic level with people. And you'll see it in politics. The people that are not that can't give off an authentic vibe usually don't get elected because people feel that, sure, they sense it, um, it's not always definable, but it's real. And that's my entire strength. So the reason that I've been very successful in investment and the reason that the family I work for wanted me to work for them wasn't because I'm, you know, a quant, but what I have is the ability to truffle hunt. So I call myself the Truffle Pig because what I can do is I can sniff out the fakes and the BS and I can find that truffle and I can say this one, this one has the fire in her belly. This one is worth banking on. And that is not a skill everybody has. And so where I'm really valuable is in my ability to connect and also my ability to really get a strong sense of when somebody is, uh, really not worth doing business with. So I'm really more the EQ than the iq.

Speaker A: Well, in terms of, uh, iq, you certainly have that in business as well. And I'll say probably the smartest thing I've read about startup investing, and this is over decades now, was something I read that you said, whereas, well, you were asked, um, what do you look for, um, in an entrepreneur? And you said, I only, I only have three questions. What do you do? Why is it needed? And how am I going to get my money back?

Speaker B: That is true.

Speaker A: Like that's It.

Speaker B: Isn't that what you really need to know?

Speaker A: That's it. That's it. You totally encapsulated it. There's really nothing more to say.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, I do have one other. I do have one other thing. I do always say there's one question I ask every founder, and I recommend that any investor ask the founder this, which is, um, what do you see as the biggest obstacle to your business succeeding? And the way they answer that question for me is a very telling. Is very telling.

Speaker A: All right, so let's play that out. You say, what do you see as the biggest obstacle to your success? And, uh, what do you hear that's good? And what do you hear that's bad? And perhaps surprisingly so.

Speaker B: Well, I'll give an example of the good first, because why not be positive? Uh, right. But I actually just mentioned this. This morning on another. Another show, I met with a woman that I was honestly not that interested in her business on paper. I took the call as a favor to another portfolio company that said, you'll love her. Please just take the meeting. So I did. It was a zoom, and I was being polite, but genuinely not that excited by it. And then I asked her that question, and she said, the physical and mental health of my team M. Because if they're not strong, we won't make it. And I immediately perked up and said, okay, I'm now interested in you because now I understand that you understand what it takes to build a business. And her thoughtfulness about having the right people around her and having them be strong and supported and to me showed the markings of a really good entrepreneur. The answer I don't like. And it's not that it's not true, but it's an obvious one. And it's also not the only thing. And if that's what you think it is, when someone says, oh, access to capital, as if if they just got money, there'd be no other problem for their business. And a lot of people say that. I would say 90%.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: And it's like, that's just not true. If I gave you the money today, which I don't have, but let's say I was, you know, Elon Musk, and I, I could say, sure, here's $100 million, no problem. You're not going to make it as a business just because I gave you money. That's not going to be your biggest obstacle. It might be a very annoying obstacle or a frustrating one when you're trying to raise, but I want to see someone that's going to answer that question with truth. And a lot of times it could be anything from.

Speaker A: No, no, Lisa, in that case, does the entrepreneur know the truth and just wants to hide it from you because they're trying to sell you, or do they really think there are no obstacles aside from access to capital?

Speaker B: Well, the second one's the more frightening one to me actually because if they're trying to hide it for me to not scare me off, that's at least, um, a uh, poorly thought out tactic. But, uh, they actually believe that money is all they need. I don't believe they know what they're doing. Now. That's personal. I could be wrong. Somebody else could just. Yes, if you give them the money, they have everything lined up. But I think you need to be thinking about every possible headwind that's coming. And sometimes there's things that nobody can work around. Right. Uh, you know, like the tariffs. Right. If you suddenly have a tariff put on you and your goods are twice as much as they were, you, you couldn't have anticipated that or Covid, you're,

Speaker A: you're in the live entertaining team of business Covet happens and Exactly.

Speaker B: I had an investment fail. I invested in a company that was doing great. They were tracking very well and, but they were in ticketing and ticketing for live performance and they didn't have the Runway as a small startup to be shut down for a year. So they failed. But they were doing great until the pandemic. So that was unfortunate. Um, but those are things that nobody can really avoid, like a black swan type of a thing. But, but you can think about realistic things. You know, sometimes the issue is supply chain, that's a realistic answer. Political risk, that's a realistic answer. Sometimes there's regulatory risk. That's a legitimate answer. Um, but when you just competitive risk. Sure. Um, although hopefully they'll have a strategy for that. I think a lot of people think. But, but I just want a realistic reason that you might have an issue. Um, and all companies are going to get faced with problems. I simply want to know that I'm dealing with a level headed person that is prepared to pivot, is prepared to deal with that unexpected or expected headwind and has a plan for how to survive it. And if you don't, I wish you luck. But I'm uh, probably not going to want to go on the journey with you because I'm coming in at such an early stage that the stage of company I'm investing in, it's really about the founder Other companies are a little bit different. If you're in a later stage company or you have a technology that's patented that no one else can do and you're not a great founder, okay, you could be replaced, you could have a CEO replace you and still have a great company. Uh, I deal with that all the time. Where you find these great technical people, great engineers or scientists, and they're brilliant, but they're not, they're not CEOs and they simply have to get past the point where they have enough money to hire that CEO and then you feel confident somebody else can lead the company properly. But if you're a startup and you don't have a plan, I think you have a dream and that's great and I hope it works out for you. But um, look, I was an entrepreneur with no plan, but I pivoted. I always.

Speaker A: And no capital. So the access to capital must be particularly ironic to you because you never raised any capital and you, you just made it work regardless.

Speaker B: Yes, but to be fair, I was a service based business, so I didn't have a huge upfront capital expense. I couldn't have done that if I was trying to open a restaurant. You know, there are of course where you, you can't just if, but if you are business.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And even in your story you did run into capital constraints when you booked something in 2009 and you weren't getting paid till 2010. So capital is important, but a good entre entrepreneur in this kind of market should be able to get it.

Speaker B: Um, or you should be able to figure out how to do something, you know, again.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Figure out what you can offer, make a partnership. I, I, you know, I mean I do a lot of philanthropy and I meet people that have their, oh, I've got this idea and I want to start this non profit doing this and this and I'm like, that's amazing. But why don't you just become a program of an existing non profit?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Structure, just get it done. Be efficient.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: I really like to connect dots and think about how can I take the least amount of anything and make it as big as possible. And that's how I function. That's not for everybody, but that's for me as an investor the way I do it.

Speaker A: Other people, well, that's how you deliver spectacular return on investment. Exactly. As you said. Now, um, let's go through those other three questions that you asked. Kind of these essential truths that you've called out when you ask these questions. What do you Do? Why is it needed? How do I get my money back? I mean, these seem like simple questions, but they must not be because you seem to hear all kinds of answers from entrepreneurs that aren't what you'd expect.

Speaker B: Well, yeah. Ah, or you see that, you know, you have an entrepreneur that can say, um, this is the problem I solve. Right. Maybe they have a climate technology. Right. Well, we have this huge problem with plastics and uh, and this is how we solve it. Great. And that's. So now one is good and two is good. We do have a problem with plastics. You have a technology to help that. Great. I'm on board. And then it's how do I get my money back? A lot of times you're just hearing, oh, well then our next round, we're going to be valued at this and then we're going to be valued at that, and then we're going to be valued at that. And I'm like, well that's all great, but that's on paper. So I can't pay my bills with that constant, uh, valuation. Where's the answer?

Speaker A: Right, that describes diluting me, not paying me back.

Speaker B: Exactly. And you know, sometimes a company doesn't know yet, you know, are they going to try to go for the acquisition or for the public exit or are they going to be just an ongoing cash flowing business? I actually prefer those. Uh, so it's funny, the family I work for is very much, you know, prefers like an IPO type of an exit. I prefer companies that are just going to give me a cash distribution and be an operating business because I'm okay with a smaller company that just does well, as opposed to a unicorn where I might have a massive exit, but I also could crash and burn. I like both. But I just want to know, how are you going to get me my money back? What's the time frame that you believe you can get my money back? What milestones do you have to hit for that to happen? What's your break even? What's your burn? I mean, these are all really basic questions, but half the time they don't know it yet. I don't usually ask evaluation because they don't know yet. How can they know?

Speaker A: Right? And it's certainly honest to say, well, we don't know who's going to buy us and we don't know if we're going to go public. But what we do know is that if our model works, and we're pretty sure it's going to work for the following rigorously construed reasons, then we're going to be really profitable. Because whether really profitable means making distributions. It turns out that companies want to buy companies that are really profitable. And the really profitable companies also have the option of going public. So if you create a fundamentally good business, you got tons of optionality.

Speaker B: Absolutely. But also the plan for that. The other thing that it tells me when I'm talking to a founder is how committed they are to their business. You know, you have the people, sort of serial entrepreneurs that are, uh, they're like flippers, right. You buy, you buy a house, you sell it, you buy the next one, you sell it. Some people are like that with companies. And while that's okay to a certain point, uh, it doesn't appeal to me because I'm not looking for the person that wants to basically get in and get out and not really care about their business because I don't think they're as careful with my money as the person that like their livelihood depends on that business working. So.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, you know, uh, oh, well, I'll just, you know, we'll just have a great exit and then, and then I'll take you along on my next thing. Like, that's cool. But I don't think I'm the investor for you. You need some big VC to back you.

Speaker A: Well, or they should go into house flipping.

Speaker B: Right. Or horse flipping. You know, this is my, my brother has such an interesting business. Do you know what pin hooking is?

Speaker A: Uh, only from what I've heard you describe your brother. So why don't. Yeah, tell everybody.

Speaker B: Well, I, I love how much you know about me. This is insane. I learned it from him. So pin hooking is essentially like flipping houses, but you flip horses, you buy a horse, sell, and you sell it a year later. So you're buying a one year old and selling a two year old. And people think of, of, you know, buying horses as this incredibly speculative, difficult thing because they're thinking about buying that racehorse and trying to win the Triple Crown. That is the risky part. But actually buying a horse for a good price and selling it for a higher price a year later is an incredibly realistic business model. So I just think you're describing the.

Speaker A: That your brother bought one for 150 grand and sold it for three quarters of a million.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I don't remember the exact number, but that's very close and accurate. Wow, you really do your research. I'm very impressed with you.

Speaker A: Well, you're so interesting. And your brother, that's pretty spectacular. Roi. Now in, in in horse flipping. That ROI can't be that common.

Speaker B: No, that's why he's good at what he does. Um, maybe even if you're not, even if you're not getting a spread like that, just like with real estate, I mean not every house is going to be bought, of course, but as long as you're making a profit, you're still doing well and you're still returning capital to investors after a year, which to me is interesting versus, you know, a five to seven or ten year hold. Uh, it's all different structures. I'm simply saying people I think need to be more creative in what they look for and less close minded about an industry. I find frequently, particularly if I say life science or biotech or medical device, you know, there's an immediate shutdown because it can be so expensive and it can be absolutely. And it can be very risky. Investing in theater, oh my goodness, you couldn't ask for a riskier investment. And yet I can honestly say I've made more money in theater than in private credit.

Speaker A: Is that because you have a deep lifetime expertise in theater and that, ah, when something's presented to you, you're able to get several steps ahead of just a regular financial investor?

Speaker B: I think it's because I have more access. Uh, oh, interesting. Frequently if you are only offered the less attractive deals, by the time it's getting to you, it might not be that great of one. Whereas.

Speaker A: So it's a question of investing. Why am I seeing this? So if I see a theater deal, it's very different than if you see a theater deal.

Speaker B: Well, not necessarily. You might see a fantastic theater deal. But I think the difference is the smartest way to invest in theater is to invest a small amount in almost all of them, knowing that a lot of them are going to wipe out entirely. It's like the traditional VC power law, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker B: The difference is that in VC you might see thousands and thousands of companies to try to choose from. Theater only has so many investable projects a year. So if you can just do most

Speaker A: of them, do the index.

Speaker B: Exactly. The ones that hit payoff, the ones that lose, that's how you do it. Now if you try to pick and choose a winner, I have definitely picked losers, um, big time. But when you pick a winner, it pays so well that it can really, uh, pay off. So it's all about how you invest and it's all about figuring out the right people to invest with in what space, um, and how to be creative with taxes and how to be creative in a lot of different ways. And I think people just need to open their minds a little bit to learning about different sectors before they make their mind up. Now their mind could still be absolutely not for me, and that's fine. Um, but I just find it interesting how people will jump into following the pack in a lot of ways. I've seen a lot of, uh. Well, I see two things in family office. I see family offices that stick to what they know only. And you know, if they're a real estate family, they do real estate, they know it, that's what they do. Or manufacturing, that's what they do. And that's great. But then I see family offices that I feel remind me a little bit of little kids playing soccer where they all run after the same ball in a pack. And I've watched it happen, you know, uh, from impact investing to SPACs. Remember SPACs? For like four minutes, everything was a spac and then it was all member of the metaverse web3 metaverse. That was everything. Everyone was doing that crypto. It's just ever. And now it's dual use defense. I'm not saying any of these are not good. I just find it funny how everybody follows now. Everybody's doing an AI deal and everybody has to get into a space tech and it's fine. But I still think the smartest investors are ones who invest in something that they know or who find the person that really knows it well and gets access to it through that person, not through, you know, if somebody is sending me a really, really well known name company, I know it's going to be an SPV with so many fees attached because I was never offered direct on the cap table in that, in that company for a reason. So by the time they're sending it to me, I don't believe in it anymore.

Speaker A: Well, there's also the, the uh, the creativity that you bring. And uh, you just got to tell the story about how you threw a charity event in an off night at a gentleman's club.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh. How are you finding, by the way?

Speaker A: I don't like the name gentleman's club. These should be called adolescent clubs for grownups. But anyway, let's put that aside. You threw a charity event on an off night in a gentleman's club?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm very creative when it comes to fundraising and charity is like my world. Right. That's what I care about most of all. And I was, uh. Well, I shouldn't name the. Basically there was a children's cancer charity that I was very much wanting to help. And I was doing traditional fundraising for them, like a gala. And I was trying to sell a hedge fund on buying raffle tickets and a table, and they weren't interested at all. And then I was out with these same guys, like two days later, and I watched them blow like 25 grand in the back room. And I thought, wait a second, you wouldn't buy a fight, you know, you wouldn't buy a hundred dollar raffle ticket for me. You wouldn't buy a $10,000 table, but you'll blow 25 grand here. Aha. Uh-huh. Give the people what they want at the club. At the club. So I went to the club, which unfortunately no longer exists, but they, they were. I mean, I used to go there all the time. I happened to enjoy that arena. So I went and I said, you know, what's your weakest night? And if I were to be able to guarantee you a certain number of people, would you be willing to give the girls their same cut? I didn't want to take a penny away from the hard working women. Um, but could we get the COVID and split the bar? And they said, yeah, because for them, getting half the bar on a night like that was great. And all I had to do was go around the finance community. Uh, and at the time there was a. Oh, gosh, what was it called now? There was like a traveling. They called it burlesque things. And they were making so much money running this little ring. I just kind of went through that same community and said, guys, if you want to help children's cancer, are you willing to go out to the bar on a Monday night? I know it's the beginning of the week, and, and you can tell your wives and you can invite them and, you know, and it worked. We raised.

Speaker A: And you raised a lot of money for children's cancer?

Speaker B: A lot of money. Way more than I raised when I did a Broadway, uh, concert for them.

Speaker A: Creativity is unbelievable. Okay. Yeah. I thought your story on animal rescue was moving. I was surprised by it. You said that some, um, women stay in abusive relationships because there's no place to put their pet.

Speaker B: Yeah, so that's my big project right now. My big project. Um, my dog passed away. And in his honor, I created, um, a program at an animal rescue that specifically houses the pets of women of domestic violence or people with addiction or mental health problems because they need to go short term and get help. So the idea behind this is you don't have to worry about Your animals, they will be safe. You go get the help you need, and then we will return them to you. And that can actually do so much good for people, because people forget that pets are a big part of someone's life. And also for veterans, there's a lot of veterans, they served in war with these dogs. They are not abandoning them. So if you can provide somebody with the support to get the help that they need as a human by caring for their animal, it's such a smart way to solve a problem. Like I said, I always try to find connections and connect dots. And you wouldn't think domestic violence and animal rescue have a tie, but they really do. And so I'm really trying to make my program work. And I want to see more animal rescues and women's organizations or addiction facilities work together, because this is a real problem you can help solve. And it's a very common sense solution, which I like.

Speaker A: Lisa, in conclusion, uh, just tell us about your experience as a 3i member.

Speaker B: It's been fantastic, I have to say. I'm a member of a lot of different groups for a lot of different reasons, and I feel like 3i is exceptional because you really take the time and effort to connect us to each other. I feel like most people are joining groups because you want to meet each other. I don't join groups for content. I can get content in a lot of places. Um, I join groups because I want to meet peers. I want to meet people that know things I don't know. And I feel like 3i has done a really excellent job of introductions between members of interesting curated events of group diligence on deals. Um, it's been a very positive experience for me.

Speaker A: Oh, terrific. Well, thank you. We are so delighted to have you as a member and, uh, to be sharing your totally fascinating story with us here in the 3i podcast. So, Lisa, uh, thank you for all you do, for who you are, and for your participation in 3i.

Speaker B: Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity, uh, to talk to you. It's been really fun, and I don't think I'm that interesting, but I'm very glad that you do, so. Thank you.

Speaker A: You certainly are. Well, thank you.