Interview with Cecile Beliot, Bel CEO

Hello Cecil. Very nice to welcome you in our edition of the Growth FMCG CEO podcast. How are you doing today? I'm great, thank you. Frederic, in the middle of the Olympic Games in Paris. Very good. Thank you for taking the time. You know that we're launching this new podcast series that is dedicated to growth FMCG CEOs for exceptional individuals that are either driving growth in the FMCG industry or doing things radically different that are extremely experimental and that we can learn from. We are very grateful that you accepted our invite yourself. Let's start right? This podcast is dedicated to not only better understand Bell as a company, the strategy that is behind it, the successes, but as well you as a CEO, as a leader, along with your personal growth journey. So that's what is ahead of us for the next 60, 90 minutes. So maybe let's start with a very simple and open question, which is who is Cecile Belliot? Can you tell us a bit more about you and about the person beyond the function? I'm a woman of 50 years old. I'm French, as you can hear it obviously. I am a mother of four. I have a young girl of 22 years old. I have a young boy of 20 years old. I have two little boys, one of 12 and one of eight. I'm quite grateful with life because it's true that I have this great chance to have this beautiful family with me. And obviously I am a leader, passionate about two things, passionate about food because I believe that food is much more than a business and that's what helps me to keep moving. I think that food is a human right and because of that I the essentiality of what we do every day. And I am also passionate about people and leadership is a lot about people. When I was young, I was passionate about humanities, as American people would say, social science, ecology, philosophies. And I think that the reason why I moved from my business MBA to marketing and marketing in consumer good. This is clearly the kind of function where you spend your life studying people behaviors and food is about culture. Food is about social links between people. This sentence, tell me what you eat, I will tell you who you are. And I believe in that. So I think that the reason why I've started my career in food and in FMCG is that the reason why I became CEO is because of my passion for people and leadership. And I strongly believe that values shape individuals and shape leadership journeys. In few words, how will you describe your values, Cecile? So I am very transparent and honest and I believe in that a lot. I believe that life is easier when you do what you say to do. I believe in the power of care and kindness much more than driving results through fear. Even though I know that fear can be a strong lever to get people do things. But I believe much more in the power of care on the long run. And I think that the reason why I joined Bell, because it's a very caring company. I believe in meritocracy. Through, you know, hard work, you can deliver anything you want and you can dream big. And it's not only about talent, it's a lot about hard work and dedication. And I believe I get these values because of my family. We have been raised. My father was an entrepreneur. So when you are an entrepreneur, you have to dare to bring big and work very hard. And my mother was a teacher in a public school. So when you have a mother as a teacher, obviously you believe in meritocracy and you know that you have to learn. I am a fast learner and passionate about growth. My motto is about how to grow myself and to make sure that I make my people grow, surrounding me. Your father was in the food business or not at all. He was a scientist. So it was being materials for laboratories. Very good. Was working with researchers all over the world. So a pure scientist. And what were your dreams? Briefly, when you were a little girl, did you ever imagine that you will pursue the path you had and achieve what you have achieved so far or you were dreaming of something totally different? No, obviously not. I was not dreaming about that. And I think I don't know anyone who. Even as a CEO I was dreaming of becoming a CEO, to be honest with you. No. When I was a little girl, I was dreaming of becoming a ballet dancer. I was dreaming to go to the opera. And at a certain moment I had to choose as many others between studying and continue to study or spending much more time dancing classical ballet. And I obviously at that time took the decision and I believe I was not talented enough to become a real ballet dancer. But at least classical dance taught me discipline and hard work. I can imagine. So you studied in a French business school at the end of the 90s, you started your career in FMCG. And if I'm not mistaken, you're starting your career with craft and then on. And so could you please tell us a bit more about your leadership journey and your professional journey that spans, if I'm not mistaken, 27 years soon, 30 years. What has been the journey and what did you enjoy the most? First of all, I've started, as I was telling you, in marketing and in consumer good. I think because of what I've explained to you, because of my passion for people. And when you study marketing, it's about how do we shape the behaviors of the people. And food is so much into the culture. It's not by chance that I've started that craft and I loved it immediately. I was lucky because after three years I've moved to Danone. And when I've started at Danone, I discovered very quickly that food was, as I was telling you, much more than a business. Danone has been built on this dual project that I set up the company thanks to Antoine Rebou. And the Diode dual project is about a social project and economical project. Yes, it's a company. Yes, you have to deliver and profit, but at the same time you have a mission. Danone is not by chance a mission led company. And immediately when I started at Danone, I understood that we were having a different way to do business and we were very conscious about the impact of everything we do. Even though I've started in the Adenone, in the biscuit division, I was spending my life working with nutritionists. They were telling me there are things you can do as a marketeer, there are things you cannot do, not because of compliance, but because of ethics. For instance, you can enjoy from time to time a Pimm's biscuit or a Mikado biscuit, but you cannot promote it as something relevant for the afternoon snack of the kids. So we were very clear on indulgence is part of food and that's great, but we have an accountability and this accountability should help the kids to feed themselves properly. So. So we are very strict on how do we promote healthy afternoon snacks, how do we always propose balance ways to consume our biscuits. So I understood very quickly that there is a way to drive profitability and ethics and sustainability at the same time. And that's the reason why I spent 17 years at Danone. And thanks to Danone, I had the great chance to work on many countries, live in many countries. I've been living in Belgium, I've been living in Russia, and I was enjoying the movement between global function and local function, up to the general management position when I was in France and then I moved to Bell. And the reason why I moved to Bell was because I was feeling super in sync with the company mission. It's also a mission led company in France because I wanted to enjoy a family owned company business because it's true that it clearly shapes the way you take decision when you have shareholders who are obsessed about the next generations and passing the baton to the next generations. When you look at the business with glasses that far, what is the impact of your decision today on the next 20 or 30 years? Because the company has 139 years old. It's true that it gives you a different perspective. And I was feeling very in sync with the mission of the company, which is to provide healthier and sustainable snacks for all. I was sharing this conviction that you can be a great mid sized company compared with the big ones, Nestle, Danone, and still being recognized to be the most innovative and the most sustainable company in the food industry. And that's what we aim for. So we'll come back on Bell in detail before that. What's your perspective on your favorite engagements? Because it's two decades plus work experience, very different roles. Could you please share a bit what you enjoy the most across those different engagements? Where did you take the most pleasure? What had been the greatest successes, but as well the setbacks, because that's where you learn the most as well. And so what have been the key moments that shaped you as a leader? I'm sure there were some key, strong, powerful moments in this journey. What were there? So first of all, I cannot say that I have preferred moment, honestly and because I think that every step of my career is also a moment in my life. That's why for me it's very difficult to choose and to pick up one, because it was really an ongoing growth journey. For instance, when I was in Russia, it was a fantastic moment of transformation. It was just after the acquisition of Unimilk, it was a 2 billion euro business where we were having a wide page and we were needing to set up a strategy for portfolio that Danone was not expert in. It was milk and kefir and sour cream and cheese. So categories that Danone was not used to manage and to pilot. And it was also a moment of my life where I was enjoying living in Moscow, but also having my three kids and the little one was only one year old, the third one, Sasha, that's why it's difficult for me to choose. It was a great moment. But I can also tell you that when I was general manager for France and you know how much is important for Danone, this is the start of Danone. So when I was enjoying water revision and then the one Danone in France, I enjoyed it fantastically because it was also a big moment of transformation. And it was a moment where I gave birth to my fourth one. That's why it's difficult for me that I've preferred this or this. Because everything is associated with my own personal journey on top of the professional one. The only thing that I can testify that I think what is important in a career and what was important for me was to be super clear on where were my strengths. And I've always focused myself on my strengths, on my right hand, not my left one. I know I can write with my left, but it's slow, it's painful. When I write with my right hand, it's joyful and it's easy. What is your right hand? I know I'm good at transforming. I know I like to arrive in a country or in a situation where either you have a big breakdown and you need to drive a turnaround, or like in Russia, you have acquired a huge business and nobody knows exactly how to manage this category and this brand. And you have to start with a white page and set up the vision and then drive the people and engage the people behind your dreams and your ambition. I'm much better at that than. And you had some people that are super strong in optimizing, accelerating, building on what has been done before and pushing the system and optimizing the system to drive it and accelerate it. And I think I'm better when you need to step back, put a vision and then transform, engaging everyone behind this vision. And that's why I think Danone understood that very, very fast. And I was capable to refuse great position because I was thinking that it was not stretching myself enough. And even though it was a great position, I was not passionate about it. So I refused sometimes position where the nun told me nobody refused that kind of position, like marketing director in France for the biscuit division. And I told them that I know France by heart. I've done all the brand. So I would like to discover global position, new countries. And at the moment, they provided me my first global position. And it was a job creation. They were a part of risk with that. But I was very at ease with taking this risk. When I was promoted in Russia, I am the one who raised my hand and I was the one asking for it because first of all, I was speaking Russian, because I learned Russian when I was at school, it's my first foreign language. And because I was passionate about Russian culture. So I wanted to live this adventure. But at the end of the day, I knew it was a risk. Also, some people told me, whoa, Russia, it's wild. It was wild. I can tell you that I think a year after my arrival, it was the first war with Ukraine and at the moment where the country closed itself. So you can imagine the level of disruption, the rubble, devaluation, the price of milk went from one day to another to the roof. So I've learned how to manage in a very volatile environment, and I've learned to accept that we are in front of the unknown. And that was a fantastic gift for me. And I think it helped me a lot when we had to go through the massive tsunami of inflation with the start of the new Ukraine war. I think it helped me a lot to manage the companies because I've been through that when I was at the head of Russia on the marketing side. So I think important is to know what you want, to know where you are good at and to dare to build your own path and not necessarily following the path that is supposed to be followed, but to build your own and to accept that when you choose, you have to renounce. And I knew I was very aligned with my own choice and I always believed they were the right one. And so far, so good. Very good. And would you say that this experience in Russia was the most challenging one because of the culture, the market, the category as well? Because milk is high frequency, high penetration category, high to differentiate, hard to decommoditize. It's really a different animal. Yeah, absolutely. I think it was one of the most fantastic one because the team was fantastic. The connection that I had at that time with Russian people and it was a personal growth journey, absolutely fantastic. So it was one of the most challenging one and certainly one of the moments where I learned the most. Definitely. Because on top of that, Russia is not a country, it's a continent when you have to manage the area and Moscow, it's. It's a different country. You can imagine that you don't exactly serve the same people with the same habit in a village in Siberia and in the middle of Moscow. You have very different behaviors and way to approach the market. So six years ago, you started at Bell, first in a position of strategy, business development, and then a bit more than two years ago, you moved to the group CEO role. Bell is singular. Right. We'll discuss about it, you will explain us, but it's highly singular for multiple reasons. The company structure is very singular, its mission is very singular. You became the first non family member CEO, which is singular as well. And tell us about that. So can you explain us a bit the journey? So in the circumstances in which you joined Bell, what was the mandate and what has been your journey over the last six years? Yeah, for sure. When I've decided to join Bell six years ago, it was because I was in touch with Antoine. Because the first time I've been in touch with Bell, it was five years before the moment I really joined the campaign. But at that time I was ready to leave Danone. But that the moment I got in touch with Antoine Phivet and Antoine was at that time the chairman and the CEO of the company and family member of the fifth generation. And because I get in touch with him and we were having maybe once per year a regular lunch together just to share about businesses and what we see are the key challenges and issues as to companies working in the food industry. I understood step by step that I was very in sync with the mission and the values of this company. Values that are about their care and commit there. Because there is a lot of innovation behind Bell and we don't necessarily see that at first sight, but in reality it's funny to understand that there is only one company on earth who knows how to do a baby Bell and it's Bell. There is only one company on earth who knows how to do the mini cubes and this is Bell. And because this is proprietary know how with dedicated machine. And so there is a kind of initiative with very strong brands. And I love brands, obviously truly global brands. You can ask in France, in us, you show a round, red marks and anyone would tell you that it's a Barbie brand, you don't even need to name it. Triangular portion are the same. Everyone will tell you that it's a la finco portion. So the brown are super strong, are super iconic. The mission is really to keep nurturing's innovative mindset, to continue to build and nurture the care. Care has been embedded into the company culture since, I don't know, 20, 30 years. They talk about care nowadays and I think that's good. Most of the company would talk about care, but 20 or 30 years ago it was not that usual. I would say this company believed a lot in the power of laughter. I'm used to say that the start of the company is this fantastic brand name, the Laughing Co. And the reason why we buy and we continue to buy and we transmit that to our kids, it's because the cow is laughing. And these brands stand for celebrating the power of laughter. Life is stuff. It's very interesting when you hear people who are the laughing consumer, they will tell you in France, in Morocco, in Algeria, in Vietnam, in us, they will tell you we know that Life is tough, but we also know that there is one way to go through and tackle with all life's challenges. And this is to keep this positivity and philosophy in life that whatever happens, it's better than love. That's great to work with that kind of brand within the portfolio. But why I'm mentioning that because I think it shaped massively the company culture. And for instance, I'm used to say that at Bell we do serious things without taking ourselves too seriously. We have a very serious mission, which is about providing healthier and more sustainable snacks. But we also provide super playful snacks. Different way to engage with people. It's. We live in the power of fun and joy and laughter and playfulness. The magic of the company. I think. I think few people understand how innovative has been there. Because when you start researching the brands like Babybel, like the Lofinco, La Vachequiris and you look at the technology behind it first time triangle portion in aluminum packaging. It was crazy at the time. Putting cheese in a wax that will preserve it and do not require to be temperature controlled. That was convenient anytime, anywhere. Snack a hundred years, 80 years before anyone. What is funny as well? Because we made some research as well for this exchange. And it comes from the Laughing Cow brand is actually. Is not so funny. If I remember well, the founder during the war there was a truck. It was written Valkyrie during the World War. Then they said Valkyrie Vashkiri. So it's quite interesting as well right now. The birth of the laughing Co is absolutely amazing. Because when I say, you know, the laughing Co stand for promoting the power of laughter. The origin of the laughing Co as the brand. So this red coat laughing. It has started exactly as you say, during the First World War. And how does it start? How did it start at that time? Benjamin Rabier is a drawer and he's the inventor of comic books. He was a first to draw comics books. And the army they understood that the guy was good at drawing and painting. And because at that time, not everyone was capable to read. So he asked him to draw on the trucks who were delivering food for the soldiers. So that soldiers can recognize immediately what is inside the truck. So for the trucks that were used to deliver the meat to the soldiers, he decided to paint. At that time it was a beef, not a cow, a red beef, laughing. And on top of it he wrote the Valkyrie, which was a way to make a joke and to laugh at the German soldiers in front of the French one. Exactly. And why he did that? He did that because when he was looking at the condition of life, the shoulders, can you imagine no condition of life of the soldiers during the First World War, he was thinking at the time, I need to find a way to provide them a smile. I need to find a way. So he could have drawn any kind of piece of meat. And because he was having this obsession, okay, let's provide them a smile. That's how he had this fantastic idea of red coat laughing. And Leon Bell met him during the World War. And when he came back in his village, he was having all these big wheels of cheese. And he said, what will I do with that? Because I cannot keep them for too long, and people cannot afford to buy them because cheese is very expensive. So that way in Switzerland, this technology to melt the cheese, and when you melt the cheese and you put it in aluminum foil and aluminum box, then you can keep it for a year and you can sell it everywhere, and much further than not in your village or your region, but you can sell anywhere in France. And then he was thinking, okay, what kind of brand can I put? And then that's how he contacted Benjamin Rabier to get the authorization to use his icon. And the funny part of the story his wife told him, okay, we need to make sure that we understand that it's a cow and not a beef. So let's put earrings with the box so that we understand that it's a co. It's a female, and it's not a beef. So that's how. And it's super daring. It's super innovative to start. Extremely innovative. Because before that, the dairy and the cheese industry was mostly unbranded. It was local to local. It was extremely seasonal as well. I would even dare to say that the laughing cow, with all this innovation really addressed some huge bottlenecks of growth to grow the category to start as well. Creating the category where cows are not present, because you could start shipping to places where they are not cows within France and beyond. Right. Removing seasonality around it. So it was incredibly innovative. And I'm not so sure that a lot of people understand the innovation and the breakthrough that the loafing cow was on just the cheese and the dairy category. No, that's. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. And when you imagine that this brand has 102 years, I don't know if today anyone would dare to launch a brand with a red coat smiling on it. That's where you see all the modernity, and that's how you create an iconic brand. Some companies, they claim they want to Build an iconic brand, but you cannot claim it either. You are an iconic brand because you are part of the culture. You are part of. And the Lofinco is part of the culture. And that's why a lot of contemporary artists have played with it, have embedded this icon into their hearts. And everyone has a story with the Lofinco. If you ask in France, but also you go in Morocco, which is that in Morocco, everyone has a story with the Lofinco. They think it's a local brand, actually, I'm pretty sure. Absolutely. Yeah. They would say, no, it's ours. Yes, absolutely. And as we translate, I think it's part of the magical. So we translate the name of the brand. So in France, it's La Vachequeri. In Spain, it's Lava Caqueria. So we translate it and it's so much embedded into the culture of these countries. And by the way, you don't consume the Lofinco in France like you consume it in Morocco. In France, it's at the end of the meal, like any cheese. In Morocco, it's really like your butter. You start your day, it's at breakfast or it's a basic meal as part of your sandwich with bread, and you split it in two and you put a portion of Lofinco inside, and it's the meal of usual workers in Morocco, in every country, we have embedded it into the local culture. And that's why people believe it's. As you said, that's why people believe it's coming from their country now. Very interesting. So six years ago, Antoine brought you on board. What was the mandate? What was the ask and the framing of this collaboration, transformation. And that's why, you know, I joined and in providing me the resources that I was needing, because I've started with the strategies, the brands, the research and innovation, and after six months, even providing me all the markets, meaning that all the general manager and markets were reporting to me. So I was having a kind of deputy CEO role very fast. And he was needing someone very in sync with his vision. Mission. So the vision was, I want to build the most innovative and most sustainable company in the food industry. He keeps on saying, I want to build a patagonia of food. So you see the bench. It's a big but. But that's exactly the dream he has. But he was needing someone to help him to transform and to pivot the company. So the transformation was about when I arrived, my obsession was, okay, this is a family and company. We need to set this company, set it up for Success for the next generation. I was having two obsessions. One which was how can I strengthen the resilience of the business and how can I pivot the geo footprint of the company? Because at that time the company was obviously very strong in France and in Europe, very strong in North Africa and Middle east. Good size also in the us, very small in NASA and because we were big in North Africa and in Middle east and very dependent from the Middle east results in terms of both trophy and metals. This company has been massively hit by all the German geopolitical crisis in Middle East. The company has been hit by the war in Libya, by the war in Syria, by the collapse of Lebanon. And that's why I told the company, I understand that this is the history of Bell. We will continue to focus on strategic market because Middle east with Saudi Arabia for instance, we have a strategic market. But I cannot depend anymore from the volatile ones. My margin cannot depend from countries where anything can happen from one day to another. So we need to reshape the geo footprint of the company. And the two big bets were we need to accelerate massively in US and in or so how to accelerate the growth there. And we need to be of a leg in Asia. Because when you are in a food company the strategy is quite easy. Where do you have people and where do you have people with money, meaning middle class, where the growth of the middle class will come from? China, India, as simple as that. It's quite easy. So then I've put a lot of focus in building China and starting a business which is quite successful right now in China. So we have multiplied by five the volume in China for the next four years multiplied by eight, donate sales multiplied by two the US in less than five years. When I look at the geo footprint, five years ago US, Noram and China was 25% of the company net sales. Now it's 1/3. And honestly if I look at the trajectory, it will be half of the company net sales in five years, just keeping the pace. So that was one of the strategic topic. The other strategic topic to build resilience and to transform the company was to be less dependent from only one category which at that time was cheese. I know portion of cheese, mini Baby Bellof and co and rebalancing it with food portions. And the vision behind that was also the vision of Antoine. And he stated, and I was so much aligned with him, he said that Belle is not about cheese, Bell is about healthy snack. When you sell Baby Bell all over the world, you don't sell A cheese you sell a mini portion of portion control, you provide all the goodness of milk and you provide it in a fantastic experiential brand because you play with the wax. So it's super faithful, it's super convenient, it's super healthy. So we are a snacking company and our know how is on the way we put package things, we have shifted the company selling the brand that were cheese brand. And we did some, I think quite daring move when we have decided to sell 500 million euro of net sales with Lerdement, which was a leading brand in Chiles, in France, in Germany, in Italy. Because we have decided to focus and to accelerate the brands that are perceived as snacking. So our core brands, the La Finco by Vibert Kerry and obviously an acquisition that has been done and that we accelerate big time all over the world, which is Gogou Squeeze in the US or Palm Pot in France. And it's a brand, we sell potches of applesauce, fruit puree or fruit and veggie puree. You can put anything you want in these little pouches. But you have the same magic, same DNA as Belle. Super playful, you have a joke at the bottom, you can play with the cap and super healthy. So when I listen to you and when we look at Bell, there's been very big enabler, I think that you didn't mention, but that played a very important role in this transformation, which is first acquisition and we're going to discuss it. What's the acquisition that you did? What is the one that went well? Maybe the one that went less well and what you learn in the process. Right. But as well as strategic partnerships. Right. Because China and India are stories of strategic partnerships. Right. It's not something you could have done alone, something that may well have been too difficult to do with a full acquisition for obvious reasons. So let's start with acquisitions as enabler of your journey and then as strategic partnership. Because there are two things that we feel when we review your journey. You've been doing rather well. Yeah. And when you look at acquisitions, the acquisition has been done, I would say the strategic pivot that I described, from cheese to snacks, has been done by Antoine when he did the acquisition of Mum so Materne, I think it was seven or eight years ago and that the moment it really say to the full company, okay, this is where I want to play. This is a strategic bet and this company totally looks like us. And by the way, it was my accountability as a CEO to manage a merge. And the merge is extremely Successful because both companies have the same DNA. It doesn't mean that it's exactly the same culture, but we have exactly the same DNA, the same mission, the same way to look at snacks, we call them purposeful snacks because they are full of ratings. So that's the first move that has been done and this move has allowed us to strengthen our capabilities in France and footprint in France, strengthen the footprint in the US and now we accelerate because we use the backbone of Perm to launch these little coaches everywhere in the world. So that's why we accelerate in Canada, that's why we start and accelerate business in Portugal in uk. So you can imagine how much you can then leverage your scale and when companies to balance the portfolio. So to give you an example, five years ago we were having only 15% of the portfolio on non dairy category, today it's 25 and it was a growth journey. It's not. We have delivered nearly 6% category growth. So we have rebalanced. We gained 10 pounds and again I believe that in the next five years it would be more than a third of the company and then we will reach by the next 10 years obviously the 50 50. That is our aim. So you can you tell us a bit more about strategic partnerships because those were absolutely instrumental to unlock some of the results you just mentioned. Yes, in fact I strongly believe that the future winners are the one capable to build partnerships and to build what I call an open ecosystem, especially for companies of our size. Why do I believe so? I am not obsessed about scale and that's the reason why I sold Ler Dameur. If I was obsessed about scale I would not have sold it. I'm obsessed about being agile. So to have this mid size is an opportunity and still to be strong locally. And if you want to be strong localis when you arrive in China like us pretty late, you'd better to find partners same in India. I've never ever thought that I would be capable by myself to create the cheese category in India because it 10 million stores, 10 million point of sales. How do you want me to have the muscles to build step by step? It would take me 20 years and I would spend big amount of money and by then any kind of local player would have build category better than me and would have copied me and accelerate. So that's the reason why for the new geographies especially and India is a good example, we know what we are good at. We know how to produce processed cheese in a very efficient way. We have been capable to adapt our innovation to a country like India, meaning that we have developed a specific sachet for India with a great content in terms of nutrition. We always start by understanding where are the deficiencies of the kids, country by country. So we fortify, we provide protein, we really want to be best in class in terms of nutrition. And at the same time we know that the only way to succeed in India is to provide it in ambient and at 10 rupees. And it's exactly what we have set up with Britannia. Britannia brings the access to the market, they cover 6 million of point of sales on 10 and we provide the brand, the innovations, the capacity to build a new factory and start a new factory in India and to start it well, because we are expert of what we do and we have a very balanced relationship, governance and very balanced partnerships. And I think that's the beauty of a successful joint venture is when each of the partners brings value to the GV and there is no sleeping partner in what we do. This is an example of partnership, but we have many others. What we do with the startups, for instance in the shield of native protein are very examples of how do you partner and how do you accelerate innovations. Tell us a bit more about this partnership because. So there are different types of partnerships you have that I think are very interesting. So there is India and China where you partner to get local scale and go to market in environment that are hyper fragmented and that enable you to punch above your weight and to establish your brands. I think you did that very well. But as well there are some different types of partnerships. The partnership that made the news, maybe it was 12 months ago or so, I don't exactly remember about alternative protein and how to use artificial intelligence to mimic texture and taste. So could you please tell us more about it? What this is Climax food I think. And what do they do? What is the intent? Where do you stand in the journey and what is the promise of it? Yeah, for every startup with whom we park, either climax Food, either Superbrood, either standing ovation, it's always the same starting point. So first of all, this startup, I know what I can do, I know what I cannot do. I know I don't have the your technology expert that you need to explore. Alternative Pote. I know I have zero expert on artificial intelligence and data from within and it would take me ages to really build a strong artificial intelligence, know how to build my own tool to design and to invent the future of food. They have that they are financed in us by big thorns who believe in the future. Of food. So they get the means, they have the expert, they have the brain, they don't know how to scale. And for them the most difficult part is how can I move from I am a startup, I've understood how to design new food and deliver innovation through artificial intelligence and data. But how can I scale that? And to scale they need people like us. We have a kind of a proof of concept for them. We develop with them, we test their technology at scale and we provide them the support on okay, we know how to scale and industrialize. They don't know how to do that. And why do they choose Bell and not any other kind of player? Because they are so smart and so strong they could shine with a lot of players. And I think there are two differences between us and the others. The first one, sincerity and the mission. They know that we are a family owned company. They know that we truly want to prove that there is a way to reinvent food in a sustainable way. They know that we have a long term view on things that's important for them. And they also notice that we have very strong brands. So when you co develop and you launch the next generation of Baby Bear it will provide them immediately credibility and awareness. So we are big enough to have the global footprint, big enough to have attractive brands and also smart enough to put the right level of dedication and to connect this startup with Myer and D. They are not put aside. Sometimes in big companies you have venture capital department and they invest a bit. Like if you are an investor. I'm not an investor for this startup, I'm a real strategic partner. I don't put money in their startup. That's not my point. I build team who work together to put at scale their technology and that's why I cannot by the way sign with a lot of them because I don't have enough people to manage different project. So when you look at the last six years, right. The transformation of the company is dramatic. When you look at the numbers, when you look at the category footprint, when you look at the geographic footprint, if you have a step back and if you look behind, what do you think worked and what do you think worked less and what did you learn? I think we did well on accelerating on the category, as you said, accelerating on the footprint, accelerating on sustainability big time. We really pioneered and the sustainability has always been embedded into the company initiation. What is different right now in the way we pilot it is a way we have accelerated operationalization of sustainability. So commitment on water, on CO2, on regenerative, so the way we drive it is I think a bit different. And we are, I think recognized as pioneer on this front. Where we have failed so far or where we are not where we were expecting to be is on the alternative protein and plant based side. Honestly we were thinking even with the startup, so it shows how much scale is difficult. We were thinking that we would be able to put on the market breakthrough technologies that we provide nutrition and taste at the same level as cheese faster than what we have done so far. And I think that one of the reason, one of the big reason why the market is not growing anymore is because the proposition on the plant based market are not tasty enough, are not enjoyable enough and are not nutritious enough. And the purpose of the strategic partnership I was mentioning with the startup is to be able to provide same taste, same sensorial experience and same nutrition at the actual cheese proposition. And it's much harder than what we thought at the beginning to scale. Is it fair to say that you had more success in unleashing the goodness of nature to deliver on plant based example Matteo Palm pot Google squeezer than replicating artificially mother nature? And you are not the only one. You have read our report on plant based last year and all the capital and shareholder value evaporates we saw across meat alternatives and beyond. So it's a fair statement. It's very fair. It doesn't mean that we should not aim for finding in the next five, ten years alternative to animal protein. Because the reality is that if you look at the numbers, we cannot feed the planet with animal protein. We know that when you look at the data, we can promote ways to farm on livestock that are sustainable in some countries. In France, yes, you can do free grazing and you can move to regenerative practices. But in Saudi, in the middle of the desert, it's insane what we do in terms of use of water, CO2 emission, methane emission. So we need to find a way to feed the 10 billion people we will have to feed on the planet. And protein is a very big topic to feed the world. Protein is a nutrient you need when you are a baby, when you are a very old one. So with a growing population in India, in China, we need to find a way to accessible protein. Today, animal protein cost a fortune and that's why in India people cannot afford it, even the dairy one, they just cannot afford it in the countryside. If you grow in sub Saharan Africa, that's exactly the same for health reason, for food security reason and for, for environmental reason. We have to crack the code. But today the code has not been cracked yet. So I think it's a good transition with sustainability. Sustainability has become ubiquitous as a word. I would even dare to say that without being too cynical, maybe even a buzzword and sometime a marketing argument with very limited rationales. Bell has really been addressing sustainability, embracing it as a strategy. You have done things that few have done globally and you will explain us, but you have been one of the very first companies, at least in the FMCG industry, to frame the two legs principle, as you call it. Whereas we need to be performant from a financial point of view, but as well from a planet point of view. Right? And the way you look at it, which we believe is the right way, is you have a system of an accounting system for Hskus to calculate its environmental impact. Right. If I'm not mistaken, at Scop 1 and Scop 2, North Cop 3, sorry, South Cop 3 as well. That's very good. That's extremely ambitious. It goes beyond anything that is out there. Even it goes beyond emerging accounting principles that are in discussion but not yet implemented. Right. And you have been bringing this to life through merging your sustainability department and your finance department because your CFO is your chief impact officer that is both in charge of driving the financial performance, but as well driving the environmental performance. We do not know any other companies, large FMCG companies that have done that. Could you please a bit explain us the journey? The why, the what, the how, the learning, maybe the failures as well. And the setbacks, the tensions, because there were tensions to reconcile in this journey. Could you please explain us a bit that? Because that is truly unique and fascinating. In fact, the thinking is always the same and it starts with a why. If you truly believe in our mission, if you truly believe that as a family owned company we need to build a company resilient enough to be here in 100 years, you cannot escape from looking at the challenges concerning people's health. Half of the population in US is obese because of us, because of the food system. We cannot deny our accountability in that. When you look at the other side of the planet, you have the same number of people. You have 800 million people obese and you have more than 800 million people under malnutrition. You have one person on earth dying every four seconds on the planet because he or she doesn't have access to food. That's the reality of the food system. So the food system does not work. So you can imagine if we don't find solution, the situation when we will have 10 billion people to feed them. I look at my business if I don't have any more farmers, because in 10 years, for instance, in France, half of the farmers who provide us milk should go in retirement. If we don't build a system where this rule is get a fair part of the value creation and get a fair revenues, how do you want young people to join and to sign for that kind of work where you on top of that work 70 hours per week? And if I don't have milk or apple at the beginning of the chain, I don't feed anyone. So when I look at the water issue, the climate change and the rise of temperature, the issue of fair wages and fair revenues for farmers, if you look at the things with this very long term view and the willingness to truly pass the company to the next generation, you cannot escape to embed this topic into your strategy. Sustainability is a strategy for us. As a CEO, I'm not an ngo, don't get me wrong, I'm here to make sure that this company is set up for success in the next 20 or 30 years. So that's why sustainability is embedded into my strategy. And then the big difference is as a CEO, I'm here to drive value creation for my shareholders. What is very different is the way we frame value creation in alignment with my shareholders. And Antoine Chivet, the first one is the one who has embedded that into the company. DNA is we frame value creation value on two legs. And we look at the two legs of financial performance and the sustainability in a very holistic way. Because as you said it, our Sustainability is water. CO2 is fair wages for and fair revenues for my farmers. It's retinal, it's obviously healthy of the portion we provide. So when I have a conversation with the family, I always define the value creation on the two legs. And every decision taken on the company is taken always on two legs. And we need both. We need financial performance because the only way to finance transition, transition to clean energy, to put value back in the value chain for the farmers to continue to innovate and invent the proteins of the future and scale this, it requires cash, it requires investments. So I need definitely the profitability. So there are a lot of companies talking like you, but you are the only one that did what you do to go so far. Why that and what have been your learning in implementing this? Because you have been going beyond worlds, you have been going beyond saying, oh, we need to reduce emission by X percent, reducing this by X percent, it's not a Pledge it's a double accounting that is driving decisions on a day to day basis across the organization. They are concrete decision, you take concrete investment decision that you report in the news that are extremely capex intensive. Some of them in terms of biomass and everything. So why the words are the same but the actions are different and what has been the learning in this journey? I think first of all the big difference is sincerity. If you believe that as a CEO you are here to drive this company not for the next three years, because normally any kind of CEO, even the one in public company, you don't work for the next three years. It's not true, not as a CEO. So if you look at the long term view and you see the level of disruption we will have to face and you build a resilient company and you want to anticipate all of them and solve for part of the issue, you have to embed that into your company. And the only way to operationalize a strategy is to put metrics in a company. If you don't have metrics, if you don't count, if it's not part of your accounting system, if you don't have this level of granularity, you do not pilot it. And that's why Antoine had this idea to say, okay, let's put under the same head financial performance and sustainability performance. Because if there is one function in the company that is good at setting the target, piloting the targets, putting the stretch in a positive way, putting stretch so that everyone deliver on both. This is the role of the ex finance team. So we have changed the way we name it because it's not about finance, it's about both. We've named them Chief Global Impact Officer for this reason. We were not playing on words because it's the reality that they payload two legs at the same time and they are the one who are capable to find a third path where you manage and you do compromise between short term and long term. And you always take decision in a holistic way. And yes, sometimes you do things that looks absolutely crazy from a financial point of view. I was telling you this very nice story on the first biomass that has been invested at the company level. The first biomass it was I think six years ago or seven years ago. And the payback at that time was 25 years. Okay, the reality is that then you would say, okay, this payback is insane. Okay, that was not the point. At that time, Antoine took the decision that we have to go for it because this is what is right, this is what we should do again to sustain the company for the next 20 years. The very funny part of the story is that when the Ukraine war happened, when the price of gas and oil went to the roof, and when people were even scared not to have enough energy to run their factories, we were pretty at ease. Because when you have a factory with a biomass, you do not depend from the oil and gas cost and even supply. And we did at that time. I have to redo the exercise of the payback, but with the new data of the real cost of carbon, because real cost of carbon is not anymore €50 per ton, but it's €150. Then we took the real cost for oil and the real cost for gas, and then from one day to another the payback was five years. So the funny part of it is that sometimes you have to do things because it's what you have to do, because it's right. And you will see that the beauty of it is that we strongly believe that what we do is and will be in the coming years a competitive age. There are two things in the Bell case, if I may, that I find very interesting. The first one is the fact that you quantified your value at State. So basically you are very clear to say my profitability is mid to high single digit. But if I apply true costing of water, CO2 natural resources, I am minus. How much are you a bill? Minus how much? We don't disclose it. But we are on minus. Yes. Yeah, okay. You don't disclose it, but I would have expected to be minus. Right. For sure. And you are not transporting sugar in water in plastic bottles across the world. Right. Saying that there are some businesses that that are a big minus. Right. But it's a bit of a taboo, it's a total taboo in the industry to say if we'll have a true cost of water and CO2, what should be my EBIT, right? We will release soon a publication at EFLFE to bring clarity on this. But this is huge. That's the first thing. The second thing that I find genuinely interesting about the approach at Bell is you have the agility to model payback based on scenarios of cost of resources. So say, okay, we're looking at something cost of carbon, 50 bucks per ton, 100 bucks. 150 bucks. Right. Cost of water, dollars x dollars and so on. And based on this take decision, what we find interesting is the approach to strategize sustainability in three steps. Which is first is let's understand our value at stake. So how much our profit is going to evolve if that materializes. Two, let's prioritize our actions based on payback and let's have an agility to understand present forward with the current cost of natural resources and the future expected. One, what is the payback profile? Third, let's develop a plan that is balanced, ambitious, but on which we progress at scale because sometimes there are trade offs but we always progress. And are those three learnings fair? When I look at it, is it fair? No, it's very fair that the way we do things and so far it's how we deliver to keep always a step in advance in implementing sustainability at scale exactly as you said it. That's exactly the way we prioritize Capex. That's exactly the way you take decision on innovation. One of the topic we still work on is how can I really get the true profit of the company? And the true profit of the company takes into account the externalities. And yes, if you really put the cost of water and the cost of CO2, it's negative. That's absolutely obvious. And we are not the worst one exactly as you said, but we try also and it's still a journey to work with universities and experts on could we also put into the P and L the positive cost of what we do because there is also thermalities for the communities, for the job, for all the goodness. Exactly. When you provide healthy snack go go squeeze consumption in the US and you know that it's instead of snacks full of fat and sugar when we can prove it that when you have kids consuming goose squeeze pouch or tom pot, they eat more fruits and veggie in their total diet because it's a way also to learn how to like food, taste and explore different foods. We know that doing so you have a positive impact on kids and people's health because these habits that you keep them when you grow. So it has a positive impact because we know the cost of weight obesity on the health care system, we know the implication for the society. So when you provide fair revenues to your farmers and you finance the transition to regenerative agriculture and when your soil start to capture more water and more CO2 so not only you can put that positively in the P and L but on top of that, from a social point of view, from food sovereignty point of view, from food security point of view, we have a positive impact. And our farmers in France were not demonstrating at the beginning of the year like the others, or at least not for the cognition of their work through their revenues, maybe to make sure that they are recognized as an essential part of the chain. And I agree with them. We need to acknowledge more of that. But they were not on the street or in our head office because they would not consider that we have a fair relationship. We have a very fair relationship with them. So that has an amazing value for the society. So one day I believe that we will find a way to put that in the food accounting system. Today there is a fake dilemma. The fake dilemma uses only companies like Bell Standard private ownership that have a very different set of priorities because of their owner's vision can afford to do what they are doing. Our views as a firm, and I think you would agree with that, is it is just good and responsible management to integrate the cost of resources in your P and L to understand your value at stake and to anticipate and to do the right things. Because it may well be a question of time before regulation come and the cost of those resources increase. What's your view on those few statements? I cannot be more agree with you. I believe any kind of CEO you truly consider his job as I need to set up my company for success in the next five to 10 years has to work exactly the way we work. And I refuse to believe that this is only because we are a family owned company that it's possible to find this narrow path between sustainability and profitability. And by the way, I think that the resilience of the company is a proof of that. We have continuous growth, volume growth this year, massive improvement of the profitability, 250bps of improvement of the profitability versus last year we proved that there is a way to do both and we refuse to both them. And we believe that it's already true today. But in the coming years, exactly as you said it, the regulators will not have any other way than starting to put taxes on natural resources and the way we use them and the resources will cost more. So for the one who are absolutely not ready for that, the level of disruption could be absolutely massive. Absolutely. Would you agree to say that strategizing sustainability rigorously from a quantitative point of view with understanding of the value at stake now in the future, understanding your levers and the payback based on the cost of resources, having a thorough plan to address all of those risks, but as well opportunities because there are positive externalities like you mentioned, do you think it is going to become increasingly a source of competitive advantage in the FMCG industry? I'm sure about that. And by the way, I think it's already the case for Bell to be Honest, I think this is a way to be perceived as different, as innovative. Even though I am a mid sized company, how do I connect with Doug, the CEO of Walmart, not because of my science. How come that at the last event they've done connecting all the people at Walmart in charge of sustainability, how come that we were the only supplier on stage, the only one? Because we are the only one. We tick all the box. We tick the box of yes, we have regenerative agriculture, but we have also the commitment on healthy snacks. And when I did this very unique partnership with Carrefour, when we were even announcing it on the news and saying that we have the first supplier who have signed a partnership with Carrefour, it was part of the annual contract negotiation. But for the first time we have signed a contract which was truly embedded the two legs. So of course we have objective of net sales and gross margin, but we were having also a very precise objective of decrease of the CO2 footprint, improvement of the revenues of the farmers, improvement of the nutrition that we provide to the kids in France. And we were capable to sign that kind of contract because exactly as you were saying, we are the only one so far, or very few people can do it, to have biased SKU on CO2 with a scope 1, 2, 3 and it's 1, 2, 3. Because the issue is on scope 3 and we are working right now to do exactly the same on weather. So it's always a long journey. I'm not saying that it's easy and you will get there in two months. And I would not say that we pilot CO2 and improvement on the CO2 journey, even though we discuss it every month, because we can pilot it at the month frequency. I would not say that we are as good as piloting the CO2 than the gross margin because we have 30, 40 years of experience of managing margin. But we learn every day and we improve every day. And it has massively transformed the conversation of on performance. We have reframed the way we look at performance. We have reframed the meaning of winning. And in a company, people are here to win. And that's why it changed every conversation within the company. The journey that has been done by Bell with your help, but as well that was started and initiated before you, and that you amplified is remarkable over the last six years. Remarkable through different lenses, right? If you project yourself in five or ten years, not necessarily already to the next generation of owners, but in five or 10 years, what success look like. And I would even have been a bit More daring considering the huge problems ahead of us. When I look at the calories intake in the US is 4,5000 calories. They take GLP1 as sweets, as candies and they move from one extreme to the others to tackle that. There are a lot of unmet needs. So what is the ambition for Bell and how high is high considering the size of the unmet needs? Consumer needs, Consumer unmet needs, but planet unmet needs as well. So how do you approach that? What success look like, how high is high? So what success looks like for me I keep on saying that we play an infinite game. Success will be if we can prove to the rest of the world that this model of built on two legs works over the years grow through all the poly crisis we will have to grow through. Because you've seen that we have moved for the last five years and we've moved into a poly crisis world. So we never know what will come next. Honestly, I believe this model will prove by its resilience. I believe that we would have built a company truly built on two legs. Dairy and non dairy with fruit and veggies and plant based. I believe we will continue to grow global brands with the same magic that is playfulness and healthiness. At the same time, I believe we will have a much more balanced footprint and as I was telling you in Asia and in Norham, so we keep the strategy and for me the would be that we are not the only one. The ambition is to make the ecosystem move. So if we have the capability to bring retailers with us, embrace this model and push the rest and especially the big ones to move, that's when we win. We will consider that we win when we will not be the only one. Because to really, truly change the food system, we cannot be the only one. Going to give you a very stupid example, but we work in US to move the orchards to regenerative agriculture. The reality when you work with the farmers one on the orchards, okay, they provide to us maybe 20, 30% of their crops. But all the rest go to the fresh apple that are sold through Costco or Walmart. So if we don't align with Walmart and Costco the standards. Exactly. To move to regenerative agriculture, I cannot make the system move by my own. I can do it on milk to some extent because I have dedicated farmers. I cannot do it everywhere. And the apple is a very good example. So we need to be together and work together on this. We need to highlight the work that has been done on the upstream. We need to put Value back in the upstream quickly and we need to align that. As a retailer, you have a massive impact on how people feed themselves. So because you decide your assortment, because you decide your price, you decide your promotion, you decide your merchandising, you massively influence the way kids and people feed themselves. We need to have an aligned ecosystem to succeed and an aligned sets of regulations to provide a framework in which we can make decisions, plan and allocate resources. True. Absolutely. So switching gears, I think what very interesting and candid and open conversation on sustainability, I just would like to pivot on a topic that might be seen as a cliche, but I think is very important is women in leadership position and especially in CEOs. Right. And the reason why I want to touch base on this is because you are one of the very, very few women CEO in the FMCG industry. Very few. It's a bit paradoxical because the immense majority of purchasing decisions are taken by women in the FMCG industry. Right. The immense majority, more than 20%. Depends on categories, but on average. And when you look at the talents intake outside of the plants and operation, the majority of the talents intake across hr, but marketing, increasingly sales as well, finance or women. So what's your take on this paradox? How do you see it? What will it take? What are the benefits, what is your experience and what is your advice for fellow CEO FMTG executives, but as well, women. So you're absolutely right. And I think the reason why is because of the society and because where we come from, and it's a long journey, the moment when companies have started to embrace diversity and inclusion truly is not that far away. It takes time to change a system and to get rid of the buyers on both sides. By the way, I'm not saying that it's only due to the bias coming from the men in leadership position. I also believe that there are bias on women's side because they don't have role model. Exactly. As you were saying, it's very difficult to become what you cannot see. That's a reality. And you will hear that from a lot of minorities. Difficult to become what you cannot see. That's why, by the way, I think it's important to showcase. I think part of my job is to show that yes, it's possible, it's possible to be a woman, to be a mother and to be a CEO and to be a leader and to manage it nicely and not to have to give up on anything. I think it has started to move. It's pretty slow and I would say that it always comes back to the sincerity on this topic. For me we were talking about sustainability and transformation on sustainability and you were telling me what is the difference between Bell and the other. And I told you the difference to start with is the sincerity at the top. And when you have companies truly engaged on this topic on diversity and inclusion, yes, you make progress. L', Oreal, for instance, we did massive progress on this one. If you ask the HRD of l', Oreal, he would tell you that it took them a generation to truly rebalance gender, rebalance on cultural diversity. And. And it's a never ending journey, let's make it clear. But they keep on explaining that it to them a generation and they keep on saying that by the way, it's not because they work on beauty that it was obvious to have female CEO because in their markets it's not true. It's because they were putting focus, KPI's plans and dedication behind the topic. And I think it has started in some companies and we need to accelerate the movement through sincerity and engagement at the top. What will it take for this to happen? Not within a generation, but within years. What will it take? Do you think it's ever possible? It has to be a generation because there are so many things come together through role modeling, building the pipe, changing incentives, training managers, rising awareness on diversity of leadership style and what success means and so on. Things that we all know very well, that proficiently we have been exposed to. But how to accelerate this journey? So a decade for l', Oreal, because they were the first one. I think for companies, for instance, like Bella, who start a bit late on this topic of diversity. We already have the Playbook, exactly as you say. The playbook is super well known. We know that you need to put KPI's processes, manage your settlement and association plan in a different way, train the girls, build mentorship. So we have the playbook. So that's why I think right now, when you are truly sincere and you want to drive acceleration on this, it can be done through years. Why I'm telling you about sincerity, I'm going to give you a very example coming from my executive committee. I have a balance executive committee in terms of gender, which doesn't happen that often, but that the reality doesn't happen by chance. It's because it was a willingness from my side. The last job that I've created is a job of strategy, transformation, data intake altogether. And I was very clear. I said I want a woman and not a French girl. I Want someone from outside France because by history we are very French oriented and we cannot build a black company with only fresh people at the comics. It's not possible anymore. It took me nearly a year. So for one year I have accepted to have an unfilled position. So I was taking the strategy on my side, providing the data and I left it to the finance global impact officer. I was having other part of the organization managing the transformation. So yes, you have to make some compromise. But I was so much convinced that diversity in terms of gender and culture brings performance, that I was ready to wait till the moment I have the perfect fit. And don't get me wrong, you never ever compromise on performance. I have found the perfect fit, a fantastic girl, not French, half Dutch, half British, super smart, just perfect for the job. Except that, okay, it took me a year. So that's why at a certain moment, the easiest things to do when you have to fill your pipe is to always hire people who look like you, who are part of your ecosystem. And that's why the system is difficult to change and to move. Because okay, if you want to have someone filling the job in a month, you look at your network, you look at from within and you go for the obvious things. If you want to prepare a pipe, if you want to fill positions that are more difficult to fill, it takes time and sometimes also it takes to be a bit daring and to try to take maybe a bit of risk. Stretch someone, not find exactly what you were having in mind, but be ready to welcome these different profile and help him at the start. I think that is very useful perspective, Cecile. I think genuinely it's hard work. You need to get a lot of things right to move the needle. Point number one. Point number two is there is something I'm not so clear on and I like to get your point of view. Do you think that beyond the intent declaration, the benefits of gender diversity in management position is well understood? Do you know what it's been more than 10 years that McKinsey every year publish all the data showing that gender diversity in the workforce drive performance. It's been more than 10 years. It's a bit like on climate or I keep on saying we are the first generation of leaders who knows. We know everything, we have all the data, we know the impact of what we do, we know the projection of what will happen if we cannot change the trajectory on climate. We know what will happen in terms of water scarcity, we know what is the link between health and between food and health of the people. And we know what gender diversity brings because it's been 15 years of survey from the McKinsey Institute globally, for instance. So I don't know if leaders are aware, but I believe that top leaders and CEO who are used to be nurtured with all this data coming from outside, just have to read. The facts are here. The facts are not challengeable anymore. So for me, the why is not the topic anymore. The topic is exactly what you were saying. I think the why is clear. The how you mean the playbook is clear. The only thing that is still debatable is the speed, is how do you deploy the playbook. And yes, you're right, it's hard work. It's focus, it's dedication. It has to be followed. It has to be a part of your transformational journey. Then it always comes back to the resilient commitment on this one. What is the advice you will give to women that inspire to become like you, Cecile, that maybe will watch this interview, this exchange between the two of us? What are your messages for them? So I would say first of all, build your own journey. Know yourself it start by you. So where are you good at? What provides you energy? Find what the Japanese people will call your IT guy. You know where, you know what you're good at, you know what you're passionate about. And it's also a mission. You understand that it's part of your purpose in life. When you find your Kiki guy, and I was lucky enough to find it at quite an early stage in my career, keep on building it. Build a career journey that looks like you and no one else. And then dare to raise your hand, dare to say, because I know what I'm good at, because I know what provide me energy. Because I know that this is how I find my purpose in life. Dare to ask for the job, as usually men would do. And I've succeeded to dare asking for the job, thanks to my husband. I have to tell you that the only reason why I raised my hand for the job, for instance in Russia, is because my husband told me, why don't you ask for it? I said, you're crazy. He said, I am crazy. Why don't you send an email? He told me, at worst you get an O. And he was right. At worse, you get an O. The main advice I would provide them. But it starts with yourself. If you don't ask, you won't get. There is something you didn't mention and you didn't mention as well in your leadership journey. So let me ask it which roles played mentors in your personal leadership journey? If any, many mentors. I should have mentioned it. I was very lucky because I was mentioning you that it's very difficult to become what you cannot see. And I was surrounded by a woman in leadership position at Danone. So I was very lucky to start at Danone with for instance as a boss, Miriam Cohen with nova, the executive committee of Flores in charge of the cosmetic active. I was this morning with Veronique Pinkinetti at breakfast and Veronique number two at Danone. Yes, Deputy CEO. Exactly, Deputy CEO. She was also my boss when I was working on the water division. And thanks to these women because they are very caring and fantastic mentors. They also provided me connection from other female mentors like at Mass like. And there is some things that helped me tremendously at Danone. And it's. I was quite young and part of the first training program dedicated to women. And it was even I was not really in leadership position. It was more in management position at that time. And I read this book that was providing by the coach. And this book explained that to drive a career you need to focus on three methods. Very easy to remind because it's called the PIN code, like for your phone, PIN P I N P for performance, I for image and for network. And in this book it was written that most of the women believe that because you focus on performance and you drive performance, people will notice and you will get the job and you will continue to climb the different steps of your career. The reality is that at a certain moment in your career we could consider could be debatable, but that the reality is that you are all performance. So what will make the difference is image and network. And I embraced that and I even translated it into a meaningful way. Network is work. Network is work. Every time I meet someone from another industry, from another market, from another country, I learn something, I get something for my business. And image is not about okay, I advertise about myself because most of the people, and especially women, they don't like to advertise about themselves. Image is about how do you make your company grow as an organization if you are not capable beyond your team to advertise on what you have learned, how do you want your organization to become a learning organization so you have a role to play as a leader to make sure that enrichment the system. So sharing what you've done, advertising on what you've done, and especially on what you've learned from that is a way to build an image. Because then people Will have an image about you will like. Ah, yes, I remember this girl. She was the one managing this project. Oh, by the way, she brought me a lot of insights about that. And it's true that at a moment in a career, your image and your network will play a significant role, obviously performance. But these two. And when I understood that, I put that in my to do list, like most of the women would do. I put it in the to do list and I was disciplined about that. And there are mental barriers to overcome, I think, for women, because that doesn't come naturally. What will be seen, maybe for women as bragging for men will be seen as being assertive. Absolutely. And that's why mentorship. Working on your bias is important on both, as I was telling you, they are biased. Everyone is biased by the way your values has been shaped through your own history and where you come from and your future. What is important is to understand that you have them because then you can work upon it and you can take distance. You cannot avoid them, but you are aware that you have them. I think you provided a very actionable framework for women in leadership. Hopefully many women will watch this video and you will inspire many women. I think at least that's my wish. If we bring a bit all together, the very rich exchange we had, Cecile, over the last 90 minutes or so, we touched many topics, right? We started with your personal journey, then your personal leadership journey. We talked a lot about bail, your journey at Bell, how singular it is, the achievement, the learnings, what is ahead. We discussed about sustainability that is so important and can become truly a source of competitive advantage. We discussed about women in leadership and you shared your experience. If we want to bring this all together with key messages, what will be your key messages? First, to Bell employees. As a leader at Bell, my key messages for my employees is always thank you. I'm always super grateful when I see what they've done, because everything that is done is coming from my teams every day. I am amazed when I see the leaders that we have within the organization and when I see what we are capable to deliver soon. That's the only word that I would share. Huge. Thank you. And to build stakeholders, people you work with the customers, suppliers, but as well. So what would be the key messages you'd like to share? As I told you, let's work together. Let's reinvent the food system. We have a huge accountability in what is happening today in the world related to health issues of the people. But also food is about health of the people, Health of the planet being of the farmer. So let's play the infinite game together to transform conversation between us and what will be the key messages to your peers, to all the CEOs of large FMCG companies. As I told you, we are the first generation of leaders who know everything. Third generation of leaders who knows absolutely everything. On the impact of what we do on the people on the planet. It provide us huge accountability. Let's take our responsibility and let's show that as we try to do it at Bell, that there is a way to manage both long term and short term. And not to jeopardize the long term for short term goal, but there is a way to drive profitability and sustainability. And let's walk the talk together. Are you ready to open doors of Bell to some of the companies to show them how you have done it very transparently and help mentoring and training maybe some other FMTG companies? Are you ready to do that? We do a lot on this. Exactly as I was telling you. As we play an infinite game, we absolutely do not believe that it should stay a competitive edge. We believe it's a competitive edge and we want to continue to pioneer and to keep the step in advance. But we keep on showcasing what we've done, sharing the tools that we have used, explaining what we have put in new creation of job of global impact and how much it has transformed the conversation within the company. We are part of many coalitions. We have started a coalition on regenerative agriculture with wwf. We believe it's part of our job to inspire, but also to support and to help the others. Very good. A closing thought maybe before we close the exchange. Cecil, it was a very nice conversation and I'm always surprised to see how much you have understood the model without asking us. So it means a lot on how good you are in exploring and understanding fmcg. Thank you, Cecile. Thank you for your time. I think that you have very exciting times ahead at Bell. So congratulations for the journey so far and our very best wishes for the exciting challenges ahead. Thank you, Cecilia. Thank you, Kadu.