Generational Politics: PKR vs UMNO

Speaker A: This is a podcast from BFM 89.9, the business station you're tuning in to

Speaker B: the BFM Breakfast Grill, powered by Umobile's Ultra 5G, the next gen network for Malaysia. Good morning, I'm Sharad Kuttan and welcome to the Breakfast Grill. Tomorrow is nomination day for the Johor State assembly elections and already increased jostling between political parties, even those that are informal alliances. There has been though, uh, a lot of chatter about youth and youth voices and youth representation in the lead up to a nomination day. And that's what we want to kind of have a deep dive on with our guest today. Helping me with the question of youth and their role in Malaysia's politics and whether we are seeing a signal towards generational change. Uh, Hifni Arif, uh, from amno, he's um, youth exco in the Kotaraja UMNO division. And Nabil Halimi, who's from pkr, vice chief of PKR Youth. Thank you gentlemen for joining me.

Speaker C: Thank you Sharad.

Speaker A: Thank you Sharad.

Speaker B: Okay, um, before we get to a lot of the hot headlines that are out there, especially around the Johor State elections, could you both briefly tell us why you got into politics? Hibni, please start.

Speaker A: So, um, getting into politics started really um, early for me. Um, I came into politics under the uh, Club Amno Luanagaru, uh, in Christchurch. So I was studying in New Zealand but there was more of a community sort of level engagement. So I came back for the 2016 um, pow, the Amno General assembly and really got into it because the vibe, the aura, uh, that was before the 2018 defeat. Right. So, um, and I got headhunted pretty much as soon as I, um, got back from um, Malaysia. Got back to Malaysia, Uh, I started working with Datu Sri Shamudin Tunhusin and then I was policy advisor for a small bit of time in 2022, 2024, uh, for the New Zealand High Commission. And then I got back into with um, the meeting Minister's office.

Speaker B: Right where you are now. Nambia. What about you? Uh, what does uh, your trajectory look like?

Speaker C: My trajectory is somewhat similar to Hifni. I started off with Club Amlo in the uk, was in Wales, um, then got back and started off my own NGO Aru Synat Mudur. Then pretty involved with the activism work. Then after two years, uh, YB Adamadli invited me to come along to Kaadilan and you know, I think I found my idealism. So I joined the party, contested, uh, in Petaling Jaya and now Want the youth chief, and, uh, everything else is, uh, history for me.

Speaker B: Okay, so it's interesting. You both had a start in amno. You stayed Hifni, uh, and you left. Okay, but people get in and out. I mean, your leader, Anwar Ibrahim, and Bill was from UMNO too, so. Yeah, um, no. Seems to be the mothership for a lot of political parties and a lot of politicians in this country. I do want to ask you, though, uh, about the youth wing, because I know you're both in your respective party youth wings. And youth wings have had a particular role in Malaysian politics, you know, since, uh, independence or even just before independence. I want to start with you, Hifni, again, because UMNO youth has always been very clear about its role. It's always the strident one. It's the lan thang one. It's the one that takes maybe slightly extreme positions. Right? The ultras come from umno, um, youth. I wonder, Hifni, if that is the future of UMNO youth, are they going to continue, uh, from the same script?

Speaker A: So pemuda am no. Always had this, um, sort of fire in it, as you always said. Um, but it is not new. And I think, personally for me, um, um, no. Youth has to be able to regulate itself. I think, in a sense, you. You cannot be a hammer where everything is a nail. Right? You cannot be the loudest about every single issue because when you are, you know, the silence becomes really deafening. So it is not, I hope, uh, on a personal basis, coming from the grassroots sort of level, um, that it won't stick to the same sort of script, uh, of being that sort of firebrand. I think a certain level of decorum is needed because it needs to react to the voter base. Right? Because voters look at, you know, over the top sort of performance in reacting to issues as something that is kind of annoying. I will bury the word. So, um, it needs to read, um, the vote to base and reactions toward these actions.

Speaker B: Right, okay, that's interesting. We'll come back to what young people want. People who are outside the party political system. But, Nabil, what about you? Because in pkr, we have a different history. And I think partly, maybeandcorrect me if I'm wrong, it's that the youth wing is actually not gender segregated as it is in. So UMNO uses actually a men's, ah, wing. Right.

Speaker C: And then.

Speaker B: And so, um, what about PKR then? I mean, what does it see as its role, especially as other parties and their youth wings play a particular role? Are you kind of reacting to that

Speaker C: I think it's probably similar to what Amnu, ah, youth is moving as well. But I mean despite we are a multi racial party, I think we take approach that is a bit more compromisation and I think because there is a mix in gender as well, there's um, men and women in 11 youth wings. I think that sort of compromisation, that structure coordination in the youth wings is fairly important. Especially when there is some comments saying that you know, the youth wings of Kadilan seems a bit play safe and so on. But I'm guessing we still try to push over comments on things that we don't agree on. And I think it has been a practice in Kaadilan uh, itself uh, of the, the openness and I'm guessing uh, that goes to the Euphengs as well.

Speaker B: Interesting, because I didn't mean to suggest that a women's uh, centered youth wing like Putri Amno would be any less strident because of course you're the founder, Azalil Mansayed was really quite a strong leader and she, she does take uh, strong positions. Right. Uh, the question is the ground. And I want to ask you, uh, Hifni, what are you reading about the ground? What do young people who are not in politics want from politics today? What do they want delivered?

Speaker A: So um, I think what they want is they want less drama in politics because they've been bombarded. So if you look at the um, age. So since only 18 has been enforced, a lot of the voters nowadays, ah, like I myself, the next general election will be my third vote, uh, third time entering the voting booth. But for a lot of um, my generation, I mean minus 10 years, it'll be their first time or second time in the voting booth and they've been bombarded with a lot of um, drama coming from 2018, the loss of Barisan national and Sheraton move and then you know, the unity government, all that. So um, there's a level of uh, fatigue I think. But at the end of the day what they really do want is people or leaders and political parties who can move the needle on bread and butter issues. Right. Especially now with the war in West Asia. So um, there are concerns on rising cost of living and you know, Talking about Boudi 95 is the 200 liter quota actually enough things like that because people are traveling around for commuting to work and whatnot. So they want actual deliverable uh, results. Right. So um, when warlocks or you know, the older generation in politics, people who have been around for the last 30, 40 years when they come up with statements that go, oh, this is not, uh, thing younger voter base. They just go, you're saying that for yourself.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So they see right through that sort of rhetoric. They're smarter now, they're more aware.

Speaker B: What about you, Nabeel? I mean, how do you read the ground? How does your party in the wing in particular read the youth round?

Speaker C: I think we've been losing some support, I think I have to be honest, in this sense. But, uh, I think what the youth wants now is sincerity and genuity from the political leaders. And I think that's what the responsibility of the youth wings to actually, um, put an example to the people on the ground. And I think Pakatan, Harappan as a whole, I think we've worked out so many efforts to really get the Malay votes that's on the side. But some parts of the, maybe, um, Chinese and Indians, we sort of lose grip, uh, in that sense. And I think as a multiracial party like Adilan, it has been our efforts to really understand, um, what's going on on the ground. And for example, as I'm also a counselor in Petalingchay, we're trying to also look into what's the core issues in Petaling Jaya that we can resolve. And I think that needs to be addressed not just through Parliament, not just through, uh, state assemblymen, but also in the council. And I think like Hifni said just now, people are smart. The young voters are pretty much accessible to anything. Any news? Uh, I think that's what also a challenge to us. And again, um, another side of our youth wings, we have tried to, explored other initiatives, uh, especially on volunteerism. It already started in several states to get them to be involved with the community, to be involved and understand that now politics is not like those times when, you know, you just talk about rhetorics. It's about action taking actions on the ground.

Speaker B: Okay. The Turkmen rhetoric, because the rhetoric has gotten quite heated between Barsan led by AMNO in Pakistan led by PKR or PKR DAP as the core, um, you know, uh, parties of that coalition. But you've had three years of cooperation. I mean, very quickly, Hivni, I mean, has that changed your view of parties that were across that you were, you know, they were your mortal enemy at one point.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So the unity government, um, I think has. It is a result of that hang Parliament. Right. So it is a power sharing agreement at the highest level. It has never been marketed at least down to the grassroots level as sort of a merger of identities. It's not a fusing of identities. You're not really, you're sharing the power base in Putrajaya. But at the divisional level, at the grassroots level, there is still, um, an implied understanding that, look, we're still going to go ahead and maintain our own identity. The AP is going to be its own thing. PKR is going to be its own thing.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So you're maintaining that sort of, uh, DNA. And it's. As the election fever ramps up, all those things bubble up to the surface right before this because there's no reason to bring it up to the surface. It's three years from the election. When it's three months from now, everything just comes up.

Speaker B: Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Speaker A: I think it's a good, uh, thing because the election now becomes a mandate bid as it's shown in um, Johor. Now when you declare that you're going to go solo, let the Riyat decide, right? And when the dust settles, if there is no clear majority, then come back to the negotiating table. What I hope the more senior political leaders can do is to not, is to stop giving ultimatums.

Speaker B: Okay, that's interesting. How do you view these last three years? Has it been good? Has it dispelled suspicions or misconceptions on the other side?

Speaker C: It's somewhat awkward at first, but I think it works. I think it works because, um, at the end of the day it's not about ideology, it's really about progress. I think the key word here is progress. It's really about nation building and reforms that we need to meet and putting in. Realistically, I think, uh, the unity governments um, somehow test and challenge both uh, ideological parties to sit together for nation building. And it has. I don't think it would happen if it was a different prime minister. I'm guessing Datushir Anoui Rahim did a very good job in making sure that everyone is intact despite the challenges, obstacles that he has passed through. And I think even from his younger days he's been very vocal and um, serious about putting these reforms. And I think from history part, he's the only political leader that can manage to make pass and dap sit down together in Pakistan Ryat. And now it happens in unity government. And I think we've already seen back then, um, during Mohiuddin Tenu, during Ismail Sabristinho, the instability is quite obvious.

Speaker B: Okay, we might want to come back to this after the short break that we need to take, uh, he is extraordinary in building bridges, but he's had to take a huge hit for the compromises that he's made. Now next up, we're going to be talking about intra party generational tensions. I'm speaking to hifni Aryeh from Amno and Nabil Halimi from PKR. Keep it here. BFM 89.9. You're listening to the BFM Breakfast Grill with Umobile's Ultra 5G, the next gen network for Malaysia. BFM 89.9. If you just joined us on the Breakfast Grill, I'm Sharad Kuttan. I'm speaking to Nabil Halimi from pkr. He's vice chief of the party's youth wing. And Hifni Aref from umno. He's a youth exco in the Rajakota UMNO division. Now I'm going to start with you, Hifni again because, um, hot headlines. The, uh, UMNO Supreme Council member Vad Sagarci has quit the party. He's alleged that there's royal interference in party matters. Uh, his reporter had called the caretaker mentor Basa on Hafiz Ghazi a puppet. Now in fact, Puad had earlier defended his loyalty to the party after being told by Johor AMNO youth chief, uh, to be a disciplined party member and avoid making provocative remarks. Hifni, your thoughts on this? This is entirely a story within umno.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, it's still a developing story and uh, I'm not. I don't think I'm in a position where I can react to the specific of it as it's still, um, going on. But on the party side, I think, um, a Supreme Council member resigning so close to nomination day, it's obviously a serious thing. Right. And um, party leadership will have to respond to this properly. And that's a conversation for them, I think, not me specifically.

Speaker B: Okay. I do want to ask you this because I understand, uh, your concerns about speaking out of turn, but there was this moment right between the UMNO youth chief of Johor and a, uh, very experienced veteran AMNO member. Is this. Do you see this as a generational issue? Is there something. Because very oddly, Poet Zakarsi is now coming out as the man who's speaking truth to power and the UMNO youth guy is coming out sounding like he's one making the compromises.

Speaker A: How the tables have turned.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So what do you think of that?

Speaker A: Yeah, so, um, I think in the lead up to the um election, I think in AMNO m, there is that Expectation to close party ranks. Right. So I think I do not blame the uh, Amno Johor youth for speaking against Puan, uh Zakashi because now is not the time for discord and dissent within party ranks. Right. Um, so I think at the end of the day being Amno Barisa National Party discipline is really key. Right. So airing out the tea Laundry out to public, I think it's not really the best winning election tragedy.

Speaker B: Okay, let's. Because there might be a bit of schadenfreude on the part of PKR looking at abnormal's problems. But PKR has been in the headlines with terrible problems and tensions that are broken out into open hostility. There's a new party, a very senior member of your party, kind of in some ways representing the younger generation has left. It's a huge slap in the face to uh, Anwar who was the bridge builder but seems not be able to hold his party together. So yeah, what are your thoughts about generational politics within pkr? Is the problem between Rafizi and uh, Anwar Ibrahim a generational war?

Speaker C: I think it's not a generational war. I think the reason why I joined Kaadilan is because of the openness that we have. And today we've seen Zakari is a bit open in what's going on in Amno. It's slowly becoming Kadila. Maybe we never know. But I think um, in Kadila itself what happens between uh, Rafizi and Anwar is somewhat a disappointment for a lot of uh, members. But I'm guessing that is always a scar in any party. We've gone through this before with uh, Sheraton Move where uh, that's what Sri Azmeen left us and we came together as a party and we moved on. Same goes to this situation. I think there is disagreement, there is differences in thoughts and um, you know, probably idealism between Datut Sri Rafizi and Ano Ibrahim. And I think um, the agenda, the ideals of any party is bigger than any individual's dream. And I'm guessing whatever happens now to the party right now, I think we've come along and we move, move on uh, for progress. And like I said just now, um, in building this country, uh, it's never about one's ambition. It's really about a bigger ideals, a bigger agenda.

Speaker B: Okay, I want to ask you both to weigh in on the question of Bersama because Bersama is positioning itself as a party of young people. It has I think a target of uh, people under candidates under 50, you know, ah, 50% or something like that. Uh, but there's also this real kamikaze and that was the word actually that Rafizi used in describing his approach. Right. And not forming alliances, not joining the so called progressive alliance of uh, PSM and Muda, uh, in Johor. How much of your base, Hifni, uh, can Rafizi eat? How much of the umno, um Barisan base can they eat?

Speaker A: So if you're talking about um grassroots members, I think none of them are buying into what Rafiji is selling. I think they see it as the flawed product. Right, because we. It's not the first time that uh, Amno Permuda AMNO is seeing it. They saw it in Muda, Right. So the first wave of youth um members who buy into that idea of oh, it's the young leading the charge has already left to join muda, so whatever is left is already the true believers, I suppose. So when they see um Rafizi essentially, or rather in concept and principles, recycling that sort of move the idea, move the project packaged in a different thing. Grassroots youth members don't buy it. But the youth voting base, now that is something that remains to be seen I think, because um, one defining characteristics of um youth voting base is they have no party loyalty, they're willing to try something new. So it's really up in the air, it's up for grabs. So whoever does a good job or a better job or convincing that younger voting base, the 18, 20 year olds, the salura and the channels, they will be the one to get the votes.

Speaker B: Nabil, what about you? Uh, is he going to eat your lunch? Is Bassama going to eat uh, the.

Speaker C: Probably some desserts of our party?

Speaker B: We know he's taken some of your parliamentary party with him. Right. So several MPs have gone with him. But are you concerned about the Bissama challenge?

Speaker C: Of course it's uh, concerned. I think we have to be concerned. And of course both leaders that was out to form Busama, uh, had tremendous experience in running um things in Kaadilan and I think I put some respect to that. But again, um, like I said, um, at the very beginning, it goes back to sincerity and trinity. I think I remember the statement by Rafi Z. The reason why they want to contest is to really as long as they just gets their deposit, which is that an ideal direction for a better nation. You know, put an example. If you have a good candidate in Pakatan, Harappan or Kaadilan to be uh, listed as a candidate at any constituency, people would definitely vote for that instead of the agenda that was brought. I mean, comparing to the agenda that brought by Bursama, um, it's more or less the same as what Qadila and as a multiracial party has fought. And I think that has already been translated into RMK 13. A lot of it has been, you know, moving on through the process of reforms. And I'm guessing, um, whatever party that will contest in an upcoming ge, um, the young voters would actually look into what are the sincerity that they brought up to the table.

Speaker B: Right. So we're going to have to look at the election results very carefully. I'm sure your party is going to be there very quick. Uh, we have about a minute or so left. Um, uh, Nabi, I'll go with you first. What do you want to see changed in Malaysian politics?

Speaker C: Um, I think a bit more mature bipartisanship that we're seeing now. And I'm guessing that is the way to go for Malaysia and Hypni M.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think I would echo the same thing. I think because we're both very young, um, seeing more mature leaders and, um, again, less drama, I suppose. Right. Because I'm, um, voting youth now can see through the rhetorics and they can see, they want to see again, the sincerity of the leaders.

Speaker C: Less political treasury.

Speaker A: Yeah, less political.

Speaker B: Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much, um, for being with us, gentlemen. I've been speaking to Hifni AREV from amno, um and Nabil Halimi from pkr. That's all we have for you for the Breakfast Grill today. Keep it here. BFM 89.9, the business station that was the BFM Breakfast Grill brought to you by New Mobile's Ultra 5 Ultra fast speeds with stronger seamless coverage. This is Malaysia's next gen network.

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