Why mindset may matter more than technology adoption

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Journal of Accountancy Podcast. This is Neil Amato with the J of A. Back for another episode we're recording at Engage. It is June of 2026. Our topic today is Being Future Ready, Riding the Waves of Transformation. I'm joined by two guests. Joel Morris from Wolters Kluwer, Tom Hood from the aicpa. To both of you, welcome to the Journal Accountancy Podcast.

Speaker C: Great to be here, Neil.

Speaker D: Yeah, thanks for having us.

Speaker B: Thank you again for being here. I, uh, mentioned Joel. Joel is vice President, Segment Leader, Research and Advisory with Wolters Kluwer Tax and Accounting. Tom, a familiar name on this podcast, Executive Vice President, business Growth and Engagement. To start, our publications covered a Wolters Kluwer report on Future Readiness for CFOs earlier this year, that report says CFOs are operating in this, quote, perpetual transformation state. So, uh, I guess for Joel first, but either of you can weigh in. What are some of the examples you see of this perpetual state?

Speaker D: Yeah, so you have some of the regular items that keep folks up at night. Right. The tax changes are constantly coming through, regulation changes, I think, uh, staffing, you know, dealing with potential, uh, shortages there. But the reality is, at the highest level, AI is ushering in a wave of transformation. Right. And that alone has implications in almost every facet of the business. And so when you would talk with folks, you can almost pick every domain that they have to manage. And it's changing.

Speaker A: Tom.

Speaker C: Um, I mean, we're, you know, I got to say, ditto for that. And that was a really good report, by the way. Uh, Joel. But the, our Future Finance group is exhibiting everything you're saying there, Neil. And everything Joel just said. I mean, it's, it is perpetual transformation. And I think that was one of the things that once the group wrestled with that concept and basically said the reality is it's not going to end. So they used to be set in context with their teams and say, we're going to do this project and it's going to be three years out or four years out, and then we'll be done. And then they would get done, and, uh, the next big software thing would be there. And so Gen AI is ushering in this whole new era. And I think I really love that concept here at Engage, riding the waves of transformation. I think that's huge. And that's one of the ways that we talk about it.

Speaker B: Thank you both for checking the bingo card. We've said AI in a, uh, in

Speaker C: a podcast and transformation 10 times already.

Speaker D: That's right.

Speaker B: But yeah, um, from, from your vantage point, we'll go with Tom first, uh, what do you think distinguishes organizations that are truly ready for the reality that's coming versus, uh, those that are kind of still in a read and react state?

Speaker C: So it's actually in our, uh, Rise 2040 report, uh, that we're proud to be releasing here at Engage. Uh, and if you think about it, we talked about that report as Rise 2040, Shaping the Future of finance and accounting. That's corporate management accounting and public accounting, as we would say, writ large. And what does all that mean? So what happened is in that report, there's a whole section on transformation, and it basically goes like this. Uh, it's from research that we did at SEMA. Mindset, skill set, tool set. Mindset's 39% of what makes people understand and want to change. That's the biggest piece about being future ready. And that's where we believe the positive vision from RISE will help with that idea.

Speaker D: I love that. Right. Mindset is critical. And to me, change of this magnitude starts at the top. Right. So when I think of readiness for organizations that I speak with, uh, a lot of it revolves around does leadership have the vision and are they putting the things in place to make sure they, they get ahead of the, the wave, so to speak? Uh, that comes down to allocating resources to put groups together to test new technologies, new billing methodologies, new growth methodologies. And to give you a good example, I talk with some firms who say something to the effect of, we're so busy with compliance, I can't really even think about that. That makes me nervous. Right. That means the leadership, uh, is leaving some risk out there because they're not putting things in place to start to get ahead of what's coming. Um, on the flip side, you have other firms who already have some level of advisory and they're talking about growth strategies. Those are two very divergent, uh, positions to be in. Right. I would aspire to try and get folks who are uncomfortable testing things closer to, uh, the side where they've, they're putting stuff in place.

Speaker C: And Joel. Ah, that's the same thing on the corporate finance side. I mean, we're, we're seeing there's a group of CFOs that you talk about their top issues. And in there, obviously AI is always in that mix. But growth and innovation is a major one. Not cost control, not compliance. They know they have to do that, but they're, they've moved beyond that. And yet to Your point? There's plenty who are still stuck in the, the grind and if they can't pick their heads up, they're going to get knocked over by that big wave.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And uh, I think ah, from the perspective on the corporate side, the business side, I'm an entrepreneur myself so I've lived a lot of my life on that side of the equation. And uh, these tools, same story, they need to be putting teams in place to test them and bring them forward, ready um, to change patterns quickly because they open up a whole new world of planning and strategy that uh, didn't exist even a year ago.

Speaker B: That's great. We've mentioned AI. How can you not that AI adoption no longer experimental. Um, it's happening.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, so what are the gaps showing up in implementation and in practice, both in the corporate finance world, the management accounting world and the public accounting world?

Speaker D: Yeah, so I mean to me the number one gap that I see is training. Okay, so that's one that's critical that I think gets overlooked is that you can bring it in. But if you're not properly thinking about how to help people learn and leverage the new tools, it's the same age old story of it won't get good adoption. Right. Underneath that some of the gaps is making sure that you ensure that you trust accuracy, security, the diligence at all levels. I mean even the smaller companies out there need to make sure that they're diligent about the tools and where the data is going because risk is a, uh, is a really important thing to mitigate and it can become problematic really quickly if, if you don't take the time to, to truly ensure that everything you're doing in this new AI space has those bounds in place to protect information.

Speaker C: And I think one of the findings of Rise 2040 again across all constituencies was we're in the uh, early stages. Right. So it's basically awareness and pilot, not many scaling. So as we look at that adoption relative to the report, there's all this optimism that yeah, we can lead into AI, but the risk is if we don't, we risk irrelevance. And I think that's the big one that's troubling us. I do agree with Joel that training is the number one thing. We, we introduce a whole AI accelerator for both finance and public accounting to help give them those skills and their hands on skills. And believe it or not, a bulk of that training is human skills. It's strategic thinking and storytelling with data and Things that we're not great at. And yet you need that when you get AI doing a lot of the analytics.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's exactly right. And you raised another point. Scalability. In my world, where I helped to develop a lot of technologies in this space, scalability and repeatability is a really important factor and a gap that I think people are, I wouldn't say ignoring, but they need to be looking out for. Right. Because when you think of one person doing something versus ten versus a hundred, it's a totally different story.

Speaker C: Yeah. So. And in that op, in that story of adoption, we asked them, what's the number one barrier to you adopting technology? Now, we expected what you and I were just talking about. Oh, we're too busy. We're stuck in the compliance, all those things. And, yeah, that's partly it, but the number one answer was ourselves. So the profession, at a rate of like 90%, Joel. So they admitted that we're the. We've met the enemy and he is us. So we have to get our mindset right in this whole profession, uh, to move as we think we need to.

Speaker D: Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker B: You mentioned Rise 2040. I want to hit on that a little bit more. Some of the concepts of hard and soft trends noted in that report. How do they fit in with all of this talk about AI and waves of transformation?

Speaker C: So that framework comes from a, uh, global futurist named Daniel Burris, who we've worked with for quite a bit. And it's really unique, in a sense that CPAs can understand it. It's very logical. And so the trends are technology, and that happens to be an exponential trend right now. Um, the second bucket would be regulations and standards. So as new technologies come along, there's always new regulations and standards.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker C: And so our profession happens to be embedded in understanding those standards and applying them to accounting. And then the third one is demographics. And that's been another trend that's been plaguing our profession. The aging membership base in the Western civilized countries, especially us, uk, Europe, et cetera. So that's where the talent shortage coming from. But those hard trends, what we say in this rise 2040 exercise is we have to have an opportunity to for each trend you identify. So when they're discussing and identifying their trends, it forces them to go, well, what could we do? If that trend's a hard trend, it's going to happen whether we like it or not. What could we do? And that gives them that positive sense of, we can control this a little bit.

Speaker B: So risk management, regulatory Complexity definitely two areas where finance, the finance function can add strategic value for Tom or Joel. Uh, what are some examples maybe you've seen from, from leaders who are, who are leaning into that and, and adding value for their organizations.

Speaker D: Yeah. So I, I spend a lot of time with folks who, talking about advisory. Right. And advisory to me is, is uh, it's broad but it's a, to me conceptually it's strategic guidance and advice that, that whether you're on, you know, whatever your position is, that you can, you know, apply to either it's the client or you know, you're the person in the business that's managing it. And so the people leaning in that I work with are using our AI tools or other AI really to aggregate and put intelligence on top of data to be much more proficient at strategic planning. Right. At ah, looking forward into what's coming. And uh, I've done so myself and so I think that it's pertinent to find solutions out there that are going to make that more palatable at the individual's fingertips so that they can have a robust set of information looking forward into their, the future of their businesses.

Speaker C: And it's the same on the, on a corporate side, uh, as well. Like the CFO has to do more strategic advisory. The controllers now are moving from more of a compliance role to a strategic role. They're embedding inside the business units and helping them manage against the future because they now have more predictive capabilities. And I think that's the, that's the opportunity that AI is lending to us.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: It can give us room for more human work.

Speaker D: It, it completely can. And that, that work then like you said, inside of, in, inside of the businesses, those folks can go become the same level of more strategic partners for the different uh, business units, which is, is more of a social skill. Right. It's a different skill set. It's a different sort of level of how you operate. And that's happening on the firm side as well. Right. The, the soft skill of social skills and the ability to influence and collaborate and tell uh, the story to bring forward that data. I firmly believe that's going to be a more important thing to consider going forward than it might have been in the past in these roles.

Speaker C: Yeah. And you, it's funny Joel, you just described what we call the T shaped professional, those broad boundary crossing skills that you just identified. Right. Strategic and critical thinking, collaboration, storytelling, communication. They sit on top of your deep accounting knowledge and soon your AI, uh, data knowledge because that's the other technical knowledge you're going to have to get good at.

Speaker D: That's right. Yeah, that's right. But, and it's interesting because you talk with a lot of folks and they, IT M requires almost a, uh, self reflection because they think of their value as the vertical part of that T. Right. And now everyone realizes we're going to need to move up and across and this becomes a more holistic picture for everyone that's working in the space, not just a select few.

Speaker C: Yeah. At higher value and a lot more fun.

Speaker D: Yeah, it is. It is. Once you break into it and through the discomfort of change, it is a lot of fun because you get to spend more time with folks and you get to be a little bit more in that collaborative environment than the responsive environment. Right.

Speaker B: This really has been a great conversation. I've enjoyed it, learned a few things. It's been great getting to know you, Joel. We'll give you both, uh, an opportunity closing thoughts on this topic today.

Speaker C: I'll, uh, let Joel go first.

Speaker D: All right. I think, uh, from the reporting, it's been pretty clear that one thing excites me about this entire profession is it's got a foundation of trust. Right. We talked about that yesterday, Tom, and, uh, that's not going to change. No matter what all these technologies, everyone still needs trusted advisors, trusted folks that they can go to. Um, but it runs. Trust runs deeper when I think about it. And, uh, so when you're thinking about technologies to use companies to work with, ways to organizationally change, like put trust as that through line into everything that you do, because that, at the end of the day, is the brand proposition for the profession. And so that would be my word of advice as I speak with everyone, is make sure that pillar stands strong.

Speaker C: And that was one of the findings of Rise I want to close with. Probably one of my favorite quotes came from, uh, a guy named Jon Kabat Zinn who said, you can't stop the waves, but you can learn how to surf. And we look at Rise 2040 as the surfing lessons. It's got all the stuff in there for people to sit there and think about. And it's going to have an AI powered chatbot for them to actually go in and chat with all the data about the future and help them think about the future in a disciplined way. And, uh, I got to say, Joel, for you and the CCH Wolters Kluwer team, thank you for being our exclusive Year One sponsor to help us bring all this to Life.

Speaker D: So, yeah, 100% we're happy to help. And, uh, you know, I think in times of extreme change, I like to be a partner that helps to see the opportunity in the future. Right. And so just honored to be part of what you guys are doing.

Speaker B: That's great. So seeing those opportunities, surfing through, uh, those waves of transformation, uh, also the concept of trust, all of those things will be, uh, included in pertinent links in the show notes for this episode. Again, Joel Morris, Tom Hood, thank you for being on the J of A podcast.

Speaker C: Thank you, Neil.

Speaker D: Yep, thank you.

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