Why You're Never Starting From Zero

Amy Evans: Hey, welcome back to Women in Sales Leadership. I'm Amy Evans. I'm rerunning some of the best episodes. I've handpicked them for you, the most popular, the most downloaded, and I'm making them available in this three episode rerun package just for you. Even if you've heard one of these before, I promise you you are gonna hear something different this time. You're not the same person the first time you listened. I hope you enjoy. Welcome to the Women in Sales Leadership Podcast. I have a very special guest today. I'm super excited about her. ⁓ and I think you are going to be as well. So we today have Ali Rizakos. Am I saying your name right? Yeah, I was I was about to say we maybe should have practiced that one beforehand, but you got a you got it. You know what? It's great. We just do it right in the moment. It's all fine. It's all fine. So I'm so thrilled to have you today. ⁓ you and I ⁓ were both at Salesforce together, so we have that in common. ⁓ and so I I'm so excited about that part. But I think you're you have a a lot of Salesforce people on the podcast? You know what? I've ⁓ I haven't had anybody from Salesforce yet, which is ⁓ my god. Can you believe it? Well So there's if there's some people from Salesforce listening like This is the universe telling you that it's time to raise your hand and reach out to me. Christina Smears, Adrian Fallow, let's go. So many, so many amazing, so much talent there. Yeah. ⁓ no, I've had I've had some great folks from all over the place. So ⁓ it's about time. It's about time. So let's why don't we though spend a minute, Allie? We'll tell everybody who you are. You share a little bit about yourself and and what you do since you've left Salesforce. Yeah. Exactly. So I was at Salesforce. Yeah, so my background is in sales and I spent eight years at Salesforce in Toronto in the Toronto office, which is a quite a special office at the time. We had a quite a unique culture in comparison to some of the other offices. ⁓ we had this whole like theory that well, first of all, Benioff has never come to the Toronto office, so we had this like a little bit of a chip on our shoulder. And so we tried to be better than everyone because of that. Anyway. ⁓ the stories were crazy. Like, ⁓ he has like a you know, like a DUI and or like some kind of he's a criminal in some kind of way can't be let into Canada. I'm not even kidding. Like we had all these theories. It does that that tracks though. That's quite possible. It's quite possible because they really don't. I remember I tried to go to a Chris Brown concert once and they wouldn't let him into Canada because he had you know, all these charges against him. And I was like, well, guess I'm not going to the Chris Brown concert, but for being such a friendly country, y'all sure are strict about who You know, we try to keep it nice here. We want to keep it seclud secluded from the criminals, apparently. I still don't think Benyos ever been. And like and we had everyone else. You know, we had like Keith Bloch and all the other people, but he never came. And we were like, what's happening? Anyways. ⁓ But I I come from sales. I was in sales leadership for a long time as well. That's kind of my last five years of corporate I spent in sales leadership. I also did a stint in enablement. Did you did a stint in enablement too, right? I was never an enablement. I took a I took a left turn at Albuquerque into partnerships at one point. But that was like at a different company. And ⁓ yeah, it was like this moment where I thought I didn't want to be in sales. Don't everyone just meet through that moment. Yeah. And and then I like got out of sales and I I was just like, what the hell did I just do? I hated enablement. I hated I love enablement people, right? Like for sure. God bless them. Wasn't for me. Not for me. Yeah. It was not for me. I need to be front and center, you know? I need to be on the front lines. Yeah. So, anyways, long story short, I found coaching when I was at Salesforce because I think most people go through a little bit of an existential crisis when they're at Salesforce because everyone is so talented and you're like, What am I doing here? They made a huge mistake. I was never meant to have this role and job here. And so I was going through that crisis quite early on and I found a coach and it was and same thing. I was like, I don't think I don't think sales is for me. I'm not meant for sales, you know? And so I found a coach to help me figure out like what else, what other path is meant for me, you know, like my purpose. And ⁓ and well, what ended up happening was I was like, ⁓ coaching is the thing that I've always like is my thing. And that is not just like, ⁓ I liked the experience. Even as a kid growing up, like I was obsessed with psychology. I was like obsessed with human behavior. I was I was like a shy kid. So I was always observing people and like analyzing them in my brain. And, you know, I would even watch like I'd sneak into my mom's room and I would watch like Melrose Place with her and I would like I was like eight and I'd be like, he likes her, but he's not telling her. And you know, like I would give this commentary about the relationships that were happening. Anyways, that was always my thing. And which was a natural, like that's why sales kind of came naturally to me too. It's all relationships, it's all connection to humans and it's all psychology. And so, but when I found coaching, I was like, wait, but I could just like help people instead of ac having to sell them stuff, like I can just help them. And so, anyways, I fell in love and I was like, for sure, coaching is my thing, but I was also definitely afraid of starting a business, leaving the comforts of Salesforce, you know, all that kind of good stuff. So it took me about eight years to finally like muster up the strength and get over my imposter syndrome and all that kind of good stuff. So in 2021, in the the kind of depths of the pandemic, I ⁓ quit the corporate world. I wasn't at Salesforce at the time. I had left another company, but I quit ⁓ and kind of dove right into my coaching business, which had always been my dream. Yeah. And I started with imposter syndrome coaching because I had experienced so much imposter syndrome at my, you know, during my time at Salesforce and even in the role in between Salesforce and and my company, like, ⁓ my God, so much imposter syndrome. And I just knew that every time I talked about it, everyone resonated with it. And I was like, okay, this is going to be a slam dunk because everyone feels this way. And I positioned my brand specifically for sales leaders. Because especially as a sales leader, I mean, we've all felt it, right? You were a good rep and then you became a sales leader and you're like, now I need to be perfect and know everything and not make any mistakes. And that's obviously unrealistic. And so you feel like a huge imposter because 99% of the you're like, I have no idea. I have no idea what's happening. And I don't know what to tell you. And I'm winging this whole thing, right? And so I knew that that was going to resonate a lot and it did. So I built an entire brand around imposter syndrome. All while leveraging LinkedIn to build my coaching business. So I don't do ads, I don't do Instagram. Like LinkedIn is my only platform. It's the only way that I get clients. And so I did that for three years. And what started to happen because I was working with sales leaders was they started to see, you know, how much success I was having on LinkedIn, running my coaching business and traveling the world and, you know, living in different places. And they were like, I mean, I I'll have what you're having, you know, like No we'll do that. Right. For sure. Yes. And so they started asking me ⁓ to help them build their own coaching business. And so like one asked, then two asked, then three. It was like then eight of my clients, my previous clients had asked. And I was like, Well, well, this is interesting. You know? I wouldn't this wasn't I was my intention was never to be like some LinkedIn guru. I don't consider myself a LinkedIn guru anyways, but like You know, never an i l it LinkedIn influencer or guru in any kind of way, but literally my clients were like, Teach me. And I'm like, Well, sure, I'll teach you what I know. And at first I had no idea if it was gonna work. So I just like talked, you know, I did it kind of behind the scenes with them. Let's try this out, you know. No guarantees. I have not tested this on anyone else, you know, like this is just what works for me. And you know, the first client made 25k in three months, next client got her first eight clients ever. And I was like, ⁓ okay, well, I think this works. You know, this is repeatable. And so I did that for about eight months in the background while I was still publicly the imposter syndrome coach. I was doing all this, you know, business coaching in the background. And then December twenty twenty three, I kind of was like, Okay, like I I I gotta pick a lane here, you know, like you can't do both, like it's too confusing, right? And so yeah, December 2023, was like, all right, I'm going all in on the LinkedIn thing because the I just noticed that like people were DMing me more and more about it too. Even though I wasn't, you know, talking specifically about LinkedIn on LinkedIn, but they saw my success as a coach. So they started asking me about, okay, so what did you do? And I'm thinking about that too. And I'm like, okay, I gotta read the room here. You know, if people are asking for this, then like follow the market, right? Mm-hmm. So I made the pivot, ⁓ December 2023. And it was like ⁓ such a helpful experience because everyone I think and I'd love to hear your version of this, but we all fear the starting over, right? The like, ⁓ my God, I can't quit this job. I'm have to start over. I can't pivot my business. I'm gonna start like, who doesn't fear the start over, right? Yeah. And and you have no idea what it's gonna be like. It could be a complete start over. It could go really smoothly, like, but you're obviously your worst you know, your worst case scenario is always the one that that you're kind of clinging on to. And so I s I literally shifted overnight. Like it was like Friday, decided to change Saturday and Sunday, spent the weekend changing my LinkedIn, changing my website, you know, and then started kind of new content angles on that Monday. And like just praying, you know, that it was gonna work. And it was a crazy thing. And I learned the power of personal branding because people just immediately took to it. Like immediately though they believed me. Immediately they wanted to work with me, right? Like that December was my the biggest revenue month I had had to date in my business. And I'm like, what? You know, like I really thought this was starting over. I was frickin' terrified to do it. You know, I was humming and hawing. You wouldn't believe like the the people in my personal life, God bless them, because I was you know, every second of the day asking them what do they think and what about this and la. And they're ⁓ my frickin' God, just either do it or shut up, you know? Totally. ⁓ and so yeah, I really learned the power of personal branding. And now it makes me not afraid to ever pivot again or try to or try something new or start over whatever it is, because it's like you're never starting from zero. And it's it's true even in the corporate world, like you're never starting from zero. You don't go back to the bottom if you leave the company that you're at, you know? Well, let's talk about that because you you you know, you've done all this work with imposter syndrome, you've you've phased that it down for yourself. You you've done a a start over inside your own your own business. What what's the unlearned what what lesson or belief did you really have to let let go of to do that, to break free from your own. Imposter syndrome, Allie. Yeah. Because that's what I just heard you like talk about. And like imagine how embarrassed I was. I was like, ⁓ my God, I have imposter syndrome and I'm the imposter syndrome. No one is immune. Of course. It's okay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what did I have to unlearn? Is that the question? Yeah. What did you have to unlearn to really like step step into being just confident? Like now now you've done this big pivot. What what what what did you have to let go of or unlearn? I think the biggest thing, and I think most coaches face this. ⁓ again, I'm curious if you face it too. But as a coach, it's same as a leader, right? It's the same kind of thing because you're in this kind of position of power to some degree, right? And the the thing that I'm still trying like I'm still learning how to how to let this go, but it's being perfect, right? As a coach, you think I need to be perfect. If people are gonna buy from me, like I have to be this perfect specimen, nothing ever goes wrong. I always handle every situation with grace and you know, whatever, right? All these isms and things that we have in our head about what we're s what we're meant to be. And so the fear of the starting over is like kind of like admitting failure, like admitting something wasn't working, or admitting like whatever, like, you know, you wanted to change, you like weren't as In love with it anymore when six months ago you said you loved it, right? This kind of like I I take it back kind of feeling. God forbid we're allowed to change. That's right. That's right. Right. And and so the fear is that you have to show that you're not perfect. And what will people think and feel about you if that's true, right? And and what I've learned and I have to keep learning, right? Because I'm gonna pivot again. I'm gonna do something new, you know, it's gonna happen, right? I'm not gonna trust me, I'm not gonna be a LinkedIn coach for the rest of my life. That's for sure. I can promise you that. That one I know. But I think you and you go crazy. Cause it's just like the algorithm ch anyways. Please. But we're gonna talk about that in a second. Exactly, right? But yeah, I still I'm still I always have to remind myself of like It is the imperfections that actually people love the most. Yes. Right. As hard as it is for for us to believe. And I I mean, I have like gajillions of proof points about of that because I I typically write about vulnerable stuff. I typically write about my failures, right? But you kind of write about the failures that you've already accepted about yourself. Yeah. Versus the ones that you're kind of going through at the moment that you maybe aren't yet in acceptance of. You're making me feel like I need to call my therapist. Yeah, yeah. That shit. I hope everyone does after this. but yeah, like when you're in it, when you're going through it in that moment, right, it's like hard to to show the imperfections because we're afraid that everyone's, you know, like especially, you know, myself, I'll just say it personally. It's like being the imposter syndrome coach, like, God forbid I have imposter syndrome, like God forbid I fear anything, right? And it's like it's almost bec you know it could become its own prison because it's like, well, excuse me, like I'm still a human. I by no means by no means when I was doing the imposter syndrome thing, did I say I'm gonna cure you of imposter syndrome. That's not the point, right? The point is how to understand what it's teaching us, how to understand what it what it what there is still left to learn, right? What there is still left to let go of, what there is still left to surrender to, right? Yeah. but of course when you're kind of like in the public eye when you create content, the fear is always like some bozo that's gonna call you out, you know, and try to make you look stupid. And and I and I tell my clients this all the time because I'm like, the only bozo is the person trying to make you look stupid, not you. You know? Like anyone that tries to tear someone down, they are just tearing themselves down because no one is gonna look at the person that they're pointing the finger at and being like, yeah, that person sucks. Everyone's gonna like, what's your problem? Why are you trying to tear someone down? Right? Like you're the person that clearly has the problem here, not the one that you're trying to tear down, right? So it's so it's all so irrational because when you actually talk it out loud and, you know, you talk to a friend about it, like none of it is true. And even if it happened, none of it would kill you or ruin your brand or anything like that. But we're human and we still have natural fears that come up of like. And I think there I think for me too, I I don't know, I y you know, you being a successful saleswoman too, it's like we kinda I have this like superwoman complex a little bit. I feel like I should be able to do it all, you know? And ⁓ should be able to like manage everything. And it's really hard to admit that I sometimes can't. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I there's gosh, there's so much good stuff that Allie. So you know, f you st you start with like starting over and it I have to share with you what I Going through my mind is I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, like for me in the past year and a half, like there's not an area of my life that I didn't start over in. Right. Like every single thing. Career total change. marriage ended and you know, sales, you know, sold my house, moved. ⁓ like kind of all of those like major things that happened. Thank goodness nobody has died. I'm so thankful I can you know say that. Yeah. But like every other big transformation has happened. And you know, one of the things that I've taken away from that is A I'm really good at getting through that. And and not that I was good the whole time because I was freaking out often. Yeah. No. I'm glad you said that. I was like, what? You just sailed through that whole experience? No, I didn't. No, I didn't. But but getting through that. Is now something that I I can look to on a tough day when I am crushing myself and saying, What the hell am I doing? And is it the right thing? And so and so's doing it better, or, you know, all that comparison that you that you s can so easily fall into. Especially, yeah. Yeah, I looked, I'm like, well, and this is not me. This is a my co I have coach, right? Of course. I have a coach. My coach shared this with me. She says, So Amy You know, let's talk about the facts. Like what is that really is your doubt really is there any evidence that you have to back up like all these worst fears actually happening? Like name a time when your whole life was a disaster and like you like failed at every single thing. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, well, I can't I can't think of any time. You know, I I I you know I always got through. Everything's always worked out, right? But when you're embarking on these big journeys, these big transitions, these unknown you're jumping into the great unknown. Mm-hmm. That's that's hard stuff. And you there's no there's nobody who just looks at that and is like, no, not a big deal for me. Or they are and they're like just like took the super serum and got it all figured out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you started to talk For a second about LinkedIn and the algorithm. And, you know, ⁓ I think one of the things that I'm noticing, like LinkedIn is d like any platform, it's changing and it's changed a lot. But the the thing that I notice is that there's a lot of people that are posting regularly and they're there oftentimes, you know, folks who really do have businesses, they're driven off of LinkedIn. I think one of the things that really blows me away is how few of the people that I know in corporate. America who are sales leaders are regularly posting on LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very what are what are the what are the mistakes that you you you notice? Like w if you you were sitting here thinking, like, okay, if I were back at Salesforce and I wanted to be, you know, in corporate selling for, you know, a while, what would you change or do differently? Yeah. As a sales maker? I didn't use I didn't use LinkedIn at all when I was when I was in the corporate world, other than basically telling people I got a promotion or that Dreamforce is coming. Dreamforce is coming, I got a promotion. Or I'm hiring. Or I'm on my post. Yeah. Three posts. Yeah. That's it. Recycle, r rinse, recycle, repeat, right? Yeah. ⁓ yeah, exactly. And and I think, you know, it was such a different time when we were at Salesforce too because I don't think it was as necessary at Like then to do it. Because layoffs say more. Well, layoffs weren't the norm. You know, like I was I mean, we were leaders. We knew what it took to fire someone. Like you had at least ninety days. You know, it was like, well, we're gonna document this crap for 90 days. Right. Exactly. So it's like I o you know, I was like, Okay, I I'm gonna get another like if that ever happened, I'm gonna get another job. I'm gonna have an I'm gonna have notice, right? We live in such a different world now where it's like Sayanara. One email and you're kicked out of org sixty two. You know. You're kicked out of your your company's, you know, email or whatever and it's gone, right? And that just wasn't the case at all when we were when we were there, right? So but it is the case now. And I think that's the difference about why it is so much more important. Like I won't sit here and be like, God, I wish I was writing on LinkedIn when I was a sales leader. I don't know if it would have like I'm sure there would have been benefits. I'm not saying that there wouldn't have. I just don't think it was going to be as maybe astronomical as or imp as important as it as it is now, right? With just the current economic situation, the layoffs, all that kind of good stuff, right? ⁓ what I do wish I did though, I do wish I did it because the other thing to think about, like I mentioned just moments ago about your personal brand, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, it's the greatest asset you'll ever own, right? Because when now thinking back, like I wish I was starting to just share my opinion, share my perspective on LinkedIn because I started from zero when I left the corporate world and that you know, my first post on LinkedIn other than the Dreamforce stuff, was like the day after I quit, basically, right? But I wish I had started so that I could have obviously learned LinkedIn and s and at least, you know, gotten some some reps in because I was really starting from writing very crappily in the beginning. You know. I wish I went through that phase when I had like a secure landing. But anyways, coming to today, why it's important. So one is your personal brand, right? You're not gonna work at that company for the rest of your life. No one is, right? Like my dad, bless his heart, like basically retired from this the company that he worked at my entire life, you know, which was thirty plus years, right? So I don't think that happens anymore. Especially in tech sales, you know. No no chance. No chance of that happening. So the company that that you are at is not not going to be the company that you end your career at, right? And so one, you're gonna have to get other jobs. And how do you do that other than just, you know, the people in your network, right? Like how can you expand the opportunities that are available to you beyond just your own network? Well, that's obviously building a personal brand, right? Building some kind of a voice that spreads wider than just the city you live in, for example, right? And, you know, the people that you that you know within it. And so that's one. and then the second piece is there's also obviously quite an interest in building your own business, right? People want the freedom, people want the flexibility. And that is going to be exponentially harder if you don't have any kind of presence on LinkedIn, right? A lot of my clients obviously start from scratch and it's not impossible. It just takes longer. It's like truly. It just takes longer cause because your content sucks. Right. Like no one knows what the hell you're selling because you don't know what the hell you're selling, right? Like all these different things, right? and so I think for those two reasons, ⁓ and let me know if you have a third, I I think it's so short sighted to not be thinking about building some kind of a presence, especially on LinkedIn, which is obviously the best platform for your career, in my opinion, right? Yeah. Yeah, because the the times are changing, economy's different, and like at some point, even if you just want to do consulting on the side, right? Or be an advisor or whatever, like having an opinion and a perspective is gonna help you do that. Yeah. So so I don't have another I think the reasons that you that you said are are spot on, right? Personal brand, you know, you begin to, you know, have more reach. ⁓ into extended network that d maybe you didn't have before and you never know where your next job is gonna come from, quite frankly. When I think about every single career move I've made from different companies and you know, I've I've stayed places for an average of three to five years before I move on. ⁓ but every time I when I think back to every time I made those moves, I would put when I knew I was ready to move, I put a ton of like energy into doing all the th a lot of the things that you're supposed to do. Yeah. And what was interesting about that was the opportunity would almost inevitably come from some somewhere else. But it was an element of almost Ellie when you know, w in sales where if you put the energy out there, yeah, you're like doing the right things, then all of a sudden I'm gonna get a little Hokey, I know, this like the universe shows up and like gives it to you. Like a self mana, a little manifestation, if you will. But it none of it happens if you're not out there expending the energy and doing the work of outreach and personal branding. And the thing though that I when I talk to people who are in corporate and in sales, the thing that I keep encountering again and again is this. ⁓ like almost ingrained belief or attitude that their company owns them. Yeah, yeah. Well th I was just gonna say, then we can talk about why people aren't doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, that like they well and owns their what they say on LinkedIn, right? And then they have to be very careful about what they say on LinkedIn, right? Which I think is like such a red flag if you feel that way. But yeah, right. Where do you work? You know? And should you keep working there? You know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, so that it's the fear of like, yeah, the company and what what are they gonna say? First of all, ⁓ I think people are I always tell it's like you don't have to say that you hate your job and that everyone, you know, like we're not saying that, right? We're not taking all the dirty laundry and putting it out. Right. Like that's not yeah, exactly. Like that's not what anyone is saying to do, right? But I have a client who ⁓ and I don't so and I don't know if this is for a fact. I'm kind of assuming this, but yeah, he's a sales leader. And so he he just started sharing like things that were happening day to day on his team and in his sales world. You know, like he he, you know, he was ⁓ in an interview and so he like talked about the some of the questions that the ⁓ you know, ⁓ candidate asked and like what were great, what were misses, whatever. Just like Yeah. Because it's valuable information for people on LinkedIn that are always looking for jobs, right? And just anyways, just like random stuff about his team and sales and that sort of thing. And anyways, I he just got ⁓ a like a really big job. And I can almost guarantee that it's probably because he was posting on LinkedIn and just share just sharing his perspective on sales and perspective on like the state of sales and you know, what's going on kind of in that world, right? Again, I don't know if that's true, but I have a a funny suspicion that it's likely because of his posting. Look at it there's I would imagine if if you was it, you know, th that those kind of like authority type of you know, and and authentic, right? Authentic authority, authentic sharing, ⁓ in a the spirit of, hey, I'm just trying to help other sales leaders or I'm just trying to help people who are trying to interview for jobs do better, then that elevates the other people who are are watching you, reading you, listening to you, and you begin to just be seen in a different way. Yeah. Because one of the things that I think frequently happens, especially in companies like Salesforce, for example, and it's not the only place, the minute you're hired there, they almost forget anything you did before you worked there. Right. Right. And you know, all that decade or however many years of experience you brought to the table and those learnings that you had ⁓ are forgotten about and it becomes a what have you done for me lately moment. Right. And the voice that you can provide for yourself on LinkedIn really bring can allow you to repackage yourself. Right. In that way of, you know, here's what I really do know and and and and share. Not in a, you know, there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. I'd love to hear you talk about that distinction, like what's the good what's a what's the right way and a wrong way? Like if if somebody's listening here and they're thinking, like, okay, gosh, I really wanna try to start to get more, you know, activity going on LinkedIn, what are the the things that you think they oughta definitely do and definitely stay away from? Yeah. So my philosophy with posting is always been about sharing personal stories. ⁓ and again, it doesn't have to be your dirty laundry or like some deep dark secret. Right. But just, you know, for example, like let's say you had to deliver performance review and you were really nervous about it or, you know, you felt uncomfortable, whatever it is, right? Just like and then what you learned from it, right? So the reason why personal stories are are powerful is because they're if when you do it right, there's a lesson that you're sharing with others, right? Of like, Here I went through this experience and here's what I learned from it. I'm offering that as something that you could potentially take and learn from as well, right? ⁓ and and the biggest thing is that the reason why that works is because we are like we exist as humans because of stories, right? Like the Bible is a story, you know, like everything is a story. Like our histories are stories, right? Like we have literally We are still on this earth because of stories. So we are so programmed to ⁓ resonate with stories, right? So the second someone's like, I literally tell people, like, you know, the hook, your first line of the of your LinkedIn post is called the hook. And if you use I or my in the hook, you are way more likely to get someone to read that that story. Right. Or sorry, that post, I should say. Because ⁓ automatically your their brain is like, ⁓ this is gonna be a story. And brains like stories. So I'm already more interested. versus if it's like here's ten things you should be doing about this and it's like thank you for yelling at me I did not come to this platform today to be told how I'm wrong about everything. Right. Like so I so there's like the personal story content, which I highly recommend and favor. And then there's like the how to content, right? Like whatever, like how to prospect into an enterprise sales company. Like of course that content can work. But it only works once you've built trust. And you only can build trust through personal story content. Right. And a how to piece of content is doesn't build any trust. Right. Cause it kind of just sounds like you're talking down to me and that you're better than me and that you know everything. And and listen, if you have if you've if you're CEO of and people, you know, kind of follow like, you know, you have this brand because you're CEO, yes, maybe your how to content would work. Better because people like look up, you know, there's like a status thing that happens with like, ⁓ you're a CEO, you must know things that I don't know. But if you're just like, you know, one of us, a sales leader, like many other sales leaders, it's like be a bit more humble, right? Like you don't know more than someone else, right? And just like tell your own personal experience, offer a lesson. If they want to take it, they can. If they don't, they don't have to, right? But when we do that how to content, it really feels like a bit condescending sometimes. ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ my gosh. Well, I know you know so much. You know so much about this. ⁓ and it's so it's so cool to hear you talk about it. And even that even that one moment alone, like, gosh, you're so right. You think about stories. I mean, that's how we were taught to sell, of course, was stories. Why would this be any different? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to go back for a second. Like when you when you took off and and s and did your own thing, you were able to travel quite a bit while you were working. Yeah. Yes. It was it was also the pandemic, so like no one was traveling, so was very cheap to travel as well. It was amazing. And and it was cold. We I I'm from Canada, so it was like cold here. And when you don't have a job that keeps you in a certain city, you're kinda like, Why do I live in this city? You know? Like it really throws everything for a loop because Yeah. I never thought about living anywhere else because, you I worked at Salesforce Toronto and all my friends were in Toronto and you know, that was like where my life was. And then once you leave that community and that cocoon you're like, I don't need to be here at all. There's no one that is relying on me here. Like I don't need to show up anywhere in this city. And so yeah, we started to travel ⁓ right away. You know, we did did the things that you needed to do in order to travel, right? Yeah. Vaccinations or whatever ⁓ to do it. But then ⁓ yeah, we went to ⁓ Hawaii, we went to Costa Rica, Florida, like we cut we got a dog in between, so we ended up staying much more like US bound versus like Europe and and Asia because we couldn't he's a big dog, so we couldn't travel with him as much. But basically always going south for the for the winter. Nice. D I'm curious, did you have a favorite place? That you liked. Probably Costa Rica. that was I went that was my first time really traveling alone. So I've done a lot of traveling, but not like I didn't do like the after university go to Europe backpacking thing, you know? Me neither. Well, I lived in Europe as a kid, so like it just didn't have the same like allure to do that. and I was too much of a hyper achiever. I wanted to just start working and making money. And anyways, that was silly. But ⁓ So yeah, I didn't do that. So I never really did the like alone travel thing. So once I quit my job and my partner was working at Salesforce at the time too. And I think I think he quit like a few months later. ⁓ but I was like I wanted him to come with me, but he was coming humming and hawing, and I'm like, Okay, I am going. And if you would like to come, you can come. But like I am going, you know? And he's like, Yeah. And so I just I literally packed, you know, like did the backpack thing and lived In Costa Rica for three months. He came by the end, but like for the first two months I was there on my own and like ⁓ such a like s I mean, so it's so difficult to be alone. Especially when they come from working at Salesforce with all these people managing a team. Like I was always with people, always meetings all day long, every day, nonstop. I get it. And then and even when you travel for, you know, when you went to territory and you traveled for where like you were still with peop like you were always with people, you know? And then I was like, ⁓ I'm alone. ⁓ my God. And it's exciting. And then you're afraid 'cause you're like, I don't know anyone. ⁓ how do you make friends? Like, what do I do? Right. ⁓ but I also find that thankful like I'm an introvert, but I can turn on my extroversion and same. I also find that when I'm alone I'm actually more friendly to people because I have a need to be friendly to them. funny. Right. Like so I just I like got to my hotel, I got some tacos and then I like went to the beach and I'm like, okay, well, time to start talking to humans because I don't know a freaking soul. And funny enough, the like this group there was like this group of three girls and everyone goes to the beach at sunset and and we were just all watching the sunset and I could hear that they were speaking English. So I you know I was just like hey like have you guys been here for a while? Like low Anyways, one of the girls worked at Slack, which at the time was Yeah, yeah, wasn't a wasn't required yet. This is so easy, you know? Like we know each other, right? Right. And they were so nice and they were like, ⁓ it's our last day, which I was like, Well, that's a bummer because I just got here. But they were like, you know, come over tonight. We're gonna have a barbecue, like, you know, we're gonna go to the pool, la la la. And so total strangers, but they invited me and I went over and like got to hang out with them all night and made new friends, and although they left the next day, like I was like, I'm gonna be alright. This is gonna be you know. And it was just such a different it was the definition of like living in a community because everyone there is basic and it was the pandemic. So everyone there was basically a remote worker trying to, you know, basically escape and and live in paradise and work. And I was staying at a hostel at the time. My I had my own private room and everything, but Staying at a hostel the time, which which is very much like a community based living, right? And so and I loved it because like every day you'd wake up and you'd see all of your friends at breakfast, you know, and we'd be like, Hey, what are we doing today? Like, what do you guys want to do? Let's go explore this, let's go explore that. Versus when we're when, you know, when we're back kind of home, I live in a big city. Like I've been trying to see one of my good friends for like two and a half months. This is so freaking hard to make a plan with someone that you know. Exactly. For the love of God. Let me get out the astrology chart and see if I can get, you know. Is Saturn in retrograde or whatever? Yeah. What's up? And I'm just like, and I hate that, you know, it just it doesn't, yes, it's a friendship, but it doesn't make me feel like connected, you know, and like we're like in something together. By the way, thank God I got a dog because that's where I find the most community because you walk your dog every day, you go to the dog park every day. So you see the same people every day, right? No. And it's socially acceptable to staff people and like talk to them when they have a dog. It's incredible. Like suddenly there's this permission that says talk to me. It's incredible. I love it. I really love it because you do feel so much more connected to everything because people, I mean, random strangers come t talk to me all the time. I will just talk to a random stranger because I have a dog too. You know, like It's just such a permission slip. But especi and I say all this especially because when you leave the corporate world, you leave community behind. Right. And then when you're in the corporate world, especially like a place like Salesforce where that was a massive community, like, you know, almost cult like to some degree, not in a bad way, but like in a good way, right? ⁓ I loved the cult, but but then it's like then you're on the outside. Yeah. And you haven't had the time to build your own community on the outside because It was all being fulfilled on the inside. You know? And so then you're you're like, ooh, what do I who do I hang out with? And they were all still working there and nine to five and you know. So it was really ⁓ that was has it's always been for the past four years, has been a really big focus of mine about building community where I live because otherwise I'm just on Zoom calls all day. And that's tiring. And I wanna feel connected to the place that I live in and the people that live in it. And and yeah, that's hard. That's definitely the hardest part about entrepreneurship is like finding that community because you're alone all the time. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, Allie, you said it like this went through my mind earlier. I've become I used to like I used to look at networking events and I'd just be like, ⁓ my God, please don't make me go to another networking event. Like I never wanted to go to them. Now I'm all in what? Now I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, there's a network. I can't wait. There's gonna be people there who are doing something similar or or something exciting. And I get a chance to build community with all these umbridge entrepreneurs and business people in in Atlanta, which is where I live, and it's just s becomes something that I take so much joy and pleasure in now. Yeah. Instead of this like, woe is me, I have to go meet new people. Well, especially it's that's how I felt at Salesforce, right? I mean, like again, it's such a it's such a bubble. You never felt like you had it had to meet anyone else. You were like, We're good. We have our everyone we need is in this bubble, you know? And like I I I for the longest time didn't do any networking events while I was there. Just at the end when I was starting to realize, ⁓ I wanna leave the corporate world at some point and like build something, I was like, maybe I should network and know some more people. But I mean, it's there's just there's so many people that work at Salesforce it, it it is networking in itself. You know, like even in an office of a thousand people, you're like, I've never seen that person before. Who is that person? You know? So you're kind of networking every day. Precisely. Yeah. Allie, you have been so generous in ⁓ sharing you and your story and ⁓ some really, really valuable advice, I think, about how to do a better job by taking advantage of, you know, your personal brand and really like being in charge of your personal brand and how you Project yourself and how that can make an impact. ⁓ if talk talk share share with my listeners a little bit about if they want to find you, if they want to take advantage of the things that you're doing. Yep. How would they find you? Yeah, for sure. So I am on LinkedIn, of course. Imagine if I wasn't. ⁓ so Link LinkedIn's the place that I hang out the most. ⁓ everything that like, you know, I'm I'm on other podcasts as well. I've got ⁓ other like mini series that I've put out that are free. You know, any all my resources are are on LinkedIn. ⁓ so yeah, LinkedIn is the place to find me for sure. Beautiful. Well Ali, what a pleasure it was to hang out with you for a few minutes today. I feel like you and I could talk for a lot longer, but we actually have to, you know, end this conversation at some point because, you know, nobody wants to listen to me talk for two hours. I don't think they want to listen to me either. So, you know anyway. Well what that was so fun. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.