Apprenticeship vs Internship: What Businesses Need to Know (Michael Todisco)

Foreign. Welcome to the Turn One Studio podcast. I'm Elliot Custodio with Turn One Studio, and here we sit with local business professionals. Today's guest, Michael Tedisco from Apprenticeship Connections. Michael, welcome. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. So I'm super excited to have you here. Obviously, the premise of the podcast is to speak with local business professionals. So whenever we have a someone representing the business community, it's exciting when they have something to share that many people may not know about. And I feel like you fall into that category. I absolutely fall in that category. So as you're going to learn, Michael focuses on apprenticeship. So before I get into your business and I'd like to hear about your business, let's start off with what's the difference between an apprenticeship and an internship? Great question. You know, it is a misconception on many levels and this is something that you see pretty much just in the United States, European countries, Canada, Australia. The word apprenticeship starts at a very early age and pretty much high school level. So there's already these career path directions available for individuals in the United States. For whatever reason, we became too comfortable with the word internship. Okay. Now, if you asked 15 people what an internship is, you probably get 15 different answers. Paid, not paid, shadowing. Someone that doesn't really know what they're doing or just shadowing someone. File, doing files, data entry, get me coffee, sit in this meeting. And again, I'm not here to downplay internships. At the end of the day, it still provide an individual with that environmental experience of being in an office. So there is definitely some value to it. But again, it's all those different things. I think HR departments became too complacent and said, oh well, just call it an internship or it's easy, quick front labor. Because they're not really going to invest in someone if they know they're going to be leaving in two to three months. So is the perspective if I have an intern, I'm just giving them experience being here. Correct. If I have an apprentice, my the experience I'm giving them is for the, the craft, for the thing. Specifically, career based learning is a thing. Career based learning. Right. So when you hear apprenticeship, most people, I get two responses, they've never heard of it before or they automatically associate it to a union construction position. Electrician, plumber, carpenter. And yes, those are very well known apprenticeship programs. But as I said, electrician, plumber, carpenter, those are careers. Right. So unlike an internship that is paid or not paid, that is maybe six weeks, maybe it's A summer long internship, which is again an opportunity and experience which is fantastic for the individual. An apprenticeship program. You're an Employee Day 1 and you are now being trained immediately to learn a career. And this training is years long. So that's going to automatically provide retention for the employer and hopefully give you an opportunity to have an individual that has chosen a career path that they want to pursue for the rest of their lives and is going to be a very productive worker with you in the near future. You put it like that, it kind of sounds like a no brainer. Does it cost more to have an apprentice versus an internship? Is cost the reason why they're not thinking of this? You know, listen, I guess I said some situations there is no cost. Right. Free labor is free labor. Okay. Right. And sometimes that grunt work needs to get done by someone, so why not have it being done by someone else that you know you aren't paying for? Okay, you're saying like a free intern. Right? A free intern. Right. Free intern is going to be able to do some stuff that just been sitting here for a while that no one really wants to do. Okay. Which is fantastic if it serves that purpose. But especially now with the landscape being what it is, not just for Long island, but the United States as a whole. You know, it isn't just about tomorrow, like two, three, four years from now. Are you going to have people in place that are going to be handle that mid level work or maybe be able to take over for that senior manager that's going to be retiring soon? Right. You need to start finding ways to keep this generation interested. And I believe an apprenticeship program is the best avenue or tool from an employer's perspective to really find a way to grow your workforce. And you should always be growing your workforce in some capacity. This is probably an unfair question. I hear a lot from the people that I interview on this podcast and elsewhere about the labor shortage on the island and how difficult it is to find people. Is it safe to say had they invested in an apprenticeship program two or three years ago, they'd be singing a different tune? Yes, this could have helped with that. I know it's an impossible question because we talked about. I think there should be a follow up question when they say they can find good people. I think again, pre Covid we got very complacent and we were able to go online and find someone with experience. Okay. So you could just go to. Indeed. Or find a resume and they've had two years experience and I can hire them and they can Hit the ground running immediately so I don't have to worry about training them. My production won't take a hit. I wanted to spend time in training that person. I can hire someone and they can hit the ground running immediately after Covid and pretty much now even three or four years later, finding that experienced person does not exist. So they say they can't find good people. There are always people available to work, right? It is the month of June. People are going to be graduating high school. There are people graduating college looking to enter the workforce. You can't tell me you can't find people, okay? You just can't find people that can hit the ground running immediately that don't need the training or that are green. You want someone with experience. Usually, again, from a small business perspective, you don't really have the time, energy and resources to really train. But if you don't make that time, right? Well, I mean, you have to, have to plan to train anyone that you hire, right? Well, I guess to varying degrees. If they know the task, then you're training them on culture. In your particular, any industry, Any industry. Construction, manufacturing, healthcare, you name it. Even again, hospitality. If they have the experience, I mean, they might, it might take them only two weeks to learn your process, but they understand the terminology, the process, the equipment, the software. So it's not completely new to them. Right? So they could, you know, after two weeks of training and learning this particular company's policy, they can hit the ground running immediately. Whereas I'm now going to train someone who knows nothing. Right. Did you allude earlier to this being more apprenticeship being a more accepted practice overseas? And it is here, so why is that? I wish I had an answer for you, but I do know that it is implemented in the high school level. Okay? So by high school, individuals know the career paths they want to start pursuing. And it is incentivized for businesses that if they do not take part in it, they get penalized. Okay? Now, there is a lot of funding currently right now that the government is giving to businesses that partake in apprenticeship programs. But when there is this misconception or fear by businesses that they don't want to take part in government funded program for whatever reason. Too much red tape. I don't want, I don't want the government to know what I'm doing. They're going to be fearful, okay? And that is kind of why I envision this consulting firm, right? Is to give companies that peace of mind, like, hey, don't worry about it, don't stress out about it. We're going to streamline the process for you. We're going to hand hold you every way, every step of the way to make you reap the benefits of the advantages of apprenticeship programs. That's a perfect segue because I was going to ask you about your business, what you do, so continue. Right. That's really what it is. I had an opportunity to be exposed to construction apprenticeship programs early on in my career. I almost kind of went through my own apprenticeship programs in apprenticeship programs. Okay. In 2019, I really felt like the way the landscape, especially Long island and just in general colleges were really becoming really expensive. Individuals were coming out of college with degrees that were not helping them get jobs. Local news newspapers were talking about how they were college graduates and they just could not find jobs. And I felt like, why doesn't more people talking about apprenticeship programs? And I realized that the problem here is that again there's too much misconception, fear or this not being able to navigate through the red tape. So if there was someone to be that financial adviser, that accountant or that subject matter expert, if I would call myself that. Right. And an apprenticeship intermediary firm is just that we are experts in this area and the core values or mission statement of the company, those are those three things to streamline the process for the employer, to make it as stress free as possible for anyone in HR upper management. Because I don't want them stressing out about it because it's another fire on their plate that they have to worry about putting out and to ensure long term success. And if that means onboarding or finding recruits, finding funding, day to day operations, whatever the case may be, we want to be there for you so that it can be successful. Let's talk about government funding or the government's involvement in this, whether it's grants or whatnot. Because I know there is that right, Correct. So you know, listen, this obviously is not a political conversation. Presidents, prior presidents and whatnot. Listen back. I think it was 2019, like I said, the college costs made it really hard for young individuals. It could not be the only, you know, the only option having only a college degree. So the federal government came in and said, okay, we're going to give funding to companies that provide training. Okay. And then it was okay, provide apprenticeship funding, training. So there are programs in place. And now currently we are now in 2019. And I mean 2026. I said 2019 and back in 2026. Now that paid for performance, right. So if you part participate in an apprenticeship program and you actually complete the program. The federal government will give you funding just for having an apprenticeship program. It is easy as that. Like there's no giving you fund you as in the business owner, the business owner funding. There are state agencies that are providing funding. There are local agencies providing funding all around workforce development. It's just a question of understanding what those programs are, the paperwork and what is entailed or the process, so to speak. And that's where you guys come in. And that is where we come in. It shouldn't be a fearful or afraid. It should be, I want to take advantage of these resources. Yeah, I want to hire maybe instead of one person, because of this funding or reimbursement of salary, I hire three people. So, you know, it's only here to incentivize employers to partake and participate in ways of bringing on more people. Love it. Again, I wish you, I wish everyone felt the same way you did. But who? All right, so is it that people don't love it or they just don't know about it and they don't love it because it sounds to me like it's a fairly no brainer. Let me ask you this. Are there areas of business where this doesn't work? I have not found an area yet where it doesn't work. Okay. Again, most people associate apprentice programs with construction, which rightfully so. 14,000 of the 17,000 active apprentices in New York State are in the construction space. Is it mostly blue collar? Mostly blue collar work. Okay, that's about 65 different types of programs, which is an excessive amount of programs in just a construction space alone. But what people do not realize is that there's about 175 different apprenticeship programs in all areas from, you know, white collar or professional, whatever the terminology is. Right. It Health and Human services, junior accountant. Right. Marketing coordinator, HR associate. This year alone, we created the first ever general insurance associate. So the insurance space. Right. So that's all behind a desk. Yeah. Then you have your manufacturing, automotive service technicians, architects. So again, the only industry that I have not seen an apprenticeship program in yet is law, legal. And hopefully that could change down the road. But so I'm just showing you there is endless opportunities in many different industries where this model of training can be used. It's the question, do those industries know about it? Yeah, it sounds like a slam dunk for those industries where there's lack of a bench. For example, my auto mechanic. He's been an auto mechanic forever. He, he's an older guy. No succession plan in the sense that while I'm sure he's more than prepared for retirement when he's done turning wrenches, there's no one there to continue turning wrenches. Correct. Right. That would be a good opportunity for an apprentice. That feels like a classic opportunity. It's the independently owned auto body shops that I've spoken to numerous times and it sounds great in theory, but I can't afford to have someone that can't hit the ground running immediately. I've got too many clients that come in, they need their car is done as fast as possible. I can't have someone that's never worked on a car before learning how to do it in such a slow manner that it's time is money. So does it feel like a burden having some. Having someone shadow you? For the independent owner, I think so. Interesting. Now for the larger companies like the dealerships like Lexus, Buick Toyota has a great training program. Okay. That they're already incorporating training programs and they could, they could, they could take the time to train people and that independent guy is going to wind up having to two, three years from now pooch or poach someone from the, from that dealership and have to overpay when. If you could have taken the time to start off and train that person the right way and provide loyalty, retention and growth and maybe even a secession plan that the person can eventually take over the business in 11 years, that would probably wouldn't be. That's the harder direction. Right. It might be harder, but the easier way is to just hire someone that you know three years into that program. I'll overpay him, but I can hit the ground running immediately. It sounds like some of the best business owners for you to work with are those that have the mindset and let's say maturity to understand the, the value of a five year plan. Correct. Right. If you're looking out three to five years, you can see you could easily slot in apprenticeship knowing that you're growing the seedling to a full tree in that timeframe. Is that a good way to look at it? I think it's a perfect way of looking at it. And I think especially outside of construction, okay. Construction plays its own little role and the deep dive that we won't get into. But some of the larger companies outside of construction that I've seen success are more of the corporations. Right. They have over 100 and 200, 500 employees where they have the three five year plans in place. When you're a smaller independent operator where you really are more worried about you Know, three months, six months out. Yeah. How'd you get into this? That's so, it's so funny question. I have sales background for most of my 20s. Okay. I was actually selling copy machines and I was looking to sell the copy machines to an association that advocated for non union commercial construction companies. Okay. So there, there is a association called Associated Builders and Contractors. They are a national association. They have like 72, 72 chapters across the United States and they have one chapter for all of New York state with different regions. And I happened to attend this meeting in March of 2011, and it was off the Holiday Inn, off lie. I still remember to this day, two person, two people next to me, this girl named Nancy and this girl named Shannon. And I sat there for 90 minutes and I had no idea what they were talking about, like failing wage, scaffold law. I was like, what is going on? Who wants a copy machine? But when you immerse yourself in that world and you get involved with the, the golf committee and you do sell some copy machines and you get to know the members, an opportunity presented itself in 2013 to become the membership director. And I've always felt pride in being able to help other people. And this job was to be a membership director, which consisted of growing the membership, retaining members, planning events, and helping them get their apprenticeship program. And I said, what is that? What's an apprenticeship program? I had no idea. So from 2013 to 2018, that is what I was doing and watching it firsthand. I had a training school in the office, so I would work all day and Monday through Thursday, after they finished a full day of work, they would come to school and they would take classes Monday and Wednesday or Tuesdays and Thursdays. And those that completed the program, and these are probably some high school dropouts, high school graduates, but now they're, you know, before the age of 30, making six figures and found the career that they're really happy about, like feel fulfilled. Right? And this is because of the apprenticeship program. Wow. And again. And after doing that for five years, it's like, why can't other businesses and other industries do the same thing? And the pride that that individual, the young person entering the workforce, can feel that same kind of happiness and joy at such an earlier age because again, when you find that thing that you love to do, it's a great feeling. And these individuals, again, not every single person graduated the program. And it is, it's a lot of work to work a full time job from 7 to 4 and then to go to school from 5 to 8. Not just for a couple of months, for years. That's hard work. It's hard work. But again, think the end game or the five year plan. And, and to teach these young individuals entering the workforce that the immediate gratification model is not the case. If you could envision yourself five years from now finding a career that you're happy about and making good money like it's worth it. Yeah. So what's more of a challenge? Finding companies to be open minded about apprenticeship or finding potential apprentices 100%. The business. The business, okay. I stopped going to high schools. They get it. Not only do they get it, I would ask to do presentations for the kids and their parents. Okay. And I would get parents coming up to me afterwards. And nothing is more disappointing than to tell them that hey, there isn't a business on in New York State that currently offers that career path. Okay. So if we have more businesses, not only just in Long island, the state of New York or just entire country that can offer these different career path opportunities. So you know, in this model, an apprenticeship program, and I know we're going to take a back step here. An apprenticeship program consists of on the job training, classroom education and a guaranteed wage increase. Right. Those are the three foundational pieces of any apprenticeship program. A wage increase when they hit that threshold, different thresholds throughout the course of the training program. Right. So it doesn't matter if it's a construction, manufacturing, healthcare, structured, customized, on the job training, classroom education, paid for by the employer, by the way, and a guaranteed wage increase, and I emphasize paid for by the employer for that education. There has been this new trend in the last couple years that the community colleges across the country and the SUNY system should participate in that kind of training. And the reason why that sounds exciting is now back to your point. I go to a high school and say, hey, there are going to be employers that are going to hire your son or daughter, give them two or three years worth of training, customized, structured, on the job training to learn a career path, pay to send them to college and give them a guaranteed wage increase. As a parent, you're like, sign me up, right? Where, where, where do I sign up for this? So it's like it's a no brainer. Even more, yeah, it's. But it's getting the businesses to really understand they should want to do this, they need to do this and these are the resources available to them that no, there is no catch. You know, you shouldn't be fearful because it's A government program or funded by the government that you know this is going to be any more than just you allowing you the opportunity to grow your workforce. Is it funded for an extended period of time or is this something that has to be renewed every year? It depends on which funding referring to. Like in the state of New York there are tax credits for apprentices. That has been going on for a while now and they've already projected it's going to be around for another three or four years. Excellent local funding that is really case by case basis. But you know, every year local workforce development boards get funding that they have to use towards on the job training funding. So until that's that, you know that's dried up, they're going to constantly keep pushing it. Awesome. There's currently a kind of program for the Education SUNY funding that gives businesses anywhere from 6 to $8,000 like Line of credit. That's not going anywhere anytime soon either. They extend a line of credit if you have. So if you have an apprenticeship program again, let's just use one for again the general insurance associate. Right. It's a two year program. So $6,000. You're going to send your apprentice to any SUNY school to take any SUNY quest you want either in person or online. And there's like a $6,000 line of credit that you don't actually get back, but you're gonna go sign them up for that class. Okay. The cost is $600. It's coming off that line of credit and you keep signing up for courses until you've hit your max. But nothing is coming out of the pocket of the employer. But the employee doesn't know that. Right? Right. They think that your business is investing in them and paying to get them, which they are in effect with everything else, they're everything else going on in the program. I say it's what I say the line of credit is. Again, it's just you have this money that you have to use towards apprenticeship program. It doesn't come out of your pocket. But as long as you have an apprenticeship program, it's available to you. Then there's other funding opportunities that again case by case basis, industry specific. The most recent one is the Arkansas Department of Commerce, which is. Right, you hear me say it. Arkansas Department of Commerce was awarded $35 million and this is for manufacturing. And the original goal was to help Arkansas companies that have apprenticeship programs. Well, they helped as many companies as they possibly can. They still had the money. So they opened it to all businesses across the entire country. And a lot of my clients applied in different states, whether it be New York, Indiana, Iowa. And again, they're going to give that to as many companies as possible until they don't have the $35 million left. Wow. But again, it was a $3,500 one time, three for just having an apprentice. But again, literally all you do is provide the documentation to show that you have an active apprentice. 90 days later you're going to get a check in the mail for $3,500. That $3,500 salary, reimburse any tools, equipment that you might have bought for that apprentice. Right. That's not an insignificant amount. Right. And that was just one. If you had other, if you have more than one apprentice, it'd be seven, you know, $10,000. That's awesome. So obviously construction seems to be number one. What are the, the next handful of industries just to help inspire the viewers that if they're in that world, they should reach out? I mean, we could have another whole conversation about this, but the manufacturing space, there's been a big push on all aspects. I think manufacturing industry took a big hit. Obviously over the last 40, 50 years, there has been no emphasis on manufacturing. Young individuals are coming out of high school, never even knowing manufacturing is. I have no idea about the assembly line or CNC machines. Like they don't know what's really involved in being a manufacturing company nowadays. And the average age of the manufacturer worker is at its highest. I think it was 52, 53 years old. It's like this cold. The silver tsunami is coming next, four or five years. The number of employees that are going to be retiring in the manufacturing space is very fearful. And if we don't find people to take their spots, it's going to be a serious problem. Department of Commerce, I just mentioned before Arkansas, the US Navy has this big mission to build. Again, can't hold me to the number of submarines they need, but they need an excessive number of submarines over the next five years. They are investing heavily in workforce development. I mean, they just put in $2 million to get people trained in welding at Suffolk Community College. CNC machinist, which is a computer, numeric controls, which is probably, that's an apprenticeship program. And that is probably the most sought out position not only in New York, but the entire country. It's a four year apprenticeship program because everything's becoming computerized. Okay. And who's going to be able to work those machines if not trained the right way? Yeah. So there's a Huge demand for that. But the manufacturing space is in high demand right now. There's about 45 different apprenticeship programs in that space area. Quality control, machinists, engineers, and let's be honest. And again, another whole conversation with AI coming in. Right. And these are types of positions that are not going to be able to be replaced by AI. Right. Not saying that many positions are, but when it comes to manufacturing, construction things where you're going to still need the focus is on using your hands. Not saying machines aren't play a part, but awareness with the younger folks about what career path could actually be AI proof. Yes. Right. So that should resonate well with them. Yes. Perfect. That's another area of industry that is dire need. Excellent. So every time I talk to you, we always talk about apprenticeships. Yes. What do you like to do for fun? What do I do for fun? No. So what I'd like to do for fun is the favorite part of my week is Wednesday night. I'm in this dad's only bowling league, which sounds ridiculous, but there's like 80 of us Wednesday nights. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. Take it way too seriously. But my team and I made the playoffs for like the last seven years, so no kidding. Congrats. Constantly. Love it. But it does break up. It break up the week nicely. It's Wednesday nights. I'd love to play pickleball, but I think I missed that. That's that. That wave. Maybe I can get on over the summer, but again, it's from September to about June. Wednesday night is bowling night. Good for you. That's awesome. Well, before we wrap up, how can folks find you and find more information about this? Sure. Which is crazy. I know. But if you actually were to just Google Apprenticeship Connections, Apprenticeship Advisor. There isn't many people that do what I do. There is actually no one in the city of New York that does. So I don't really have to pay for any SEO. I have actually gotten people from Chicago all the way to actually England that said they just found me by googling Apprenticeship Advisor. Apprenticeship Consultant. But on our website, apprenticeship connections, that's accnys.org that's three Cs I know. Slightly annoying newsletters videos. Try to provide as much education as possible on our website so that if, if something piqued your interest during this, this conversation, you're like, I want to find out more. There are videos there to find out more. And of course the contact us tab. And you can just email us and we'll get back to you and answer any questions you might have. There you have it, Michael. Thank you. This is awesome. Appreciate it.