Aflevering 20: Marnix Geus - The Present

1 00:00:05,107 --> 00:00:07,911 Speaker 1: Hey, good that you're listening to a new episode of 2 00:00:08,051 --> 00:00:11,242 Impact Makers the Stories of Social Founders, A podcast in 3 00:00:11,282 --> 00:00:13,028 which Peter Bronckhorst talks to entrepreneurs. 4 00:00:13,028 --> 00:00:15,980 What is their mission and how did it come about? 5 00:00:15,980 --> 00:00:20,123 Did they succeed in making the impact they had in mind and how 6 00:00:20,164 --> 00:00:21,128 did they get that for each other ? 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,547 Speaker 2: Welcome to a new episode of Impact Makers, the 8 00:00:24,608 --> 00:00:27,923 Stories of Social Founders, en vandaag hebben we te gast Mannix 9 00:00:27,923 --> 00:00:29,408 Geus van the Present. 10 00:00:29,408 --> 00:00:33,146 Welkom, dankjewel, en laten we maar meteen van start gaan. 11 00:00:33,146 --> 00:00:36,289 Kan jij in één zin vertellen, mannix, wat jouw missie is? 12 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:38,421 Speaker 3: Ja, ben ik even blij dat ik in de auto al even een 13 00:00:38,442 --> 00:00:40,365 podcast had geluisterd, dat jij die vraag stelt Op mijn vraag 14 00:00:40,384 --> 00:00:40,645 stelt. 15 00:00:40,645 --> 00:00:44,530 Nou, ja, op mijn LinkedIn staat Connecting People to Serve 16 00:00:44,570 --> 00:00:46,112 Humanity in goed Nederlands. 17 00:00:46,112 --> 00:00:50,628 Ja, internationaal platform En dat heb ik op een gegeven moment 18 00:00:50,628 --> 00:00:52,381 hier toegevoegd, omdat dat is eigenlijk wat ik altijd deed, 19 00:00:52,462 --> 00:00:55,365 ook hier, vooral in mijn commerciële carrière, maar nu 20 00:00:55,485 --> 00:00:57,466 ook vanuit the Present wat een stichting is. 21 00:00:57,466 --> 00:01:00,661 Het gaat over het verbinden van mensen altijd to serve humanity 22 00:01:00,661 --> 00:01:02,746 , en dat not just about the social aspect, because I think 23 00:01:02,786 --> 00:01:06,013 also, if we take good care of nature, then we ultimately serve 24 00:01:06,013 --> 00:01:06,653 the human being too. 25 00:01:06,653 --> 00:01:09,647 Look that nature eventually survives. 26 00:01:09,647 --> 00:01:10,784 Then we are, I think, agree. 27 00:01:10,784 --> 00:01:16,421 But well, the human being, he recovers in a certain way, but 28 00:01:16,441 --> 00:01:17,620 whether the human being is still there is the question. 29 00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:21,468 But I think for the present in general, it is much more about 30 00:01:21,510 --> 00:01:24,756 inspiring and activating entrepreneurs to deliver social 31 00:01:24,777 --> 00:01:27,387 contributions, and I think that entrepreneurs are also extremely 32 00:01:27,387 --> 00:01:29,456 suitable to make a difference in that. 33 00:01:29,939 --> 00:01:30,825 Speaker 2: Well, I can only agree with that. 34 00:01:30,825 --> 00:01:33,659 There are a lot of one-sensities with each other. 35 00:01:33,659 --> 00:01:34,995 Yes, a lot of one-sensities. 36 00:01:34,995 --> 00:01:38,364 What you're not getting at, of course, is that, the moment 37 00:01:38,385 --> 00:01:40,549 you're going to hide your mission in one sentence, that 38 00:01:40,588 --> 00:01:42,632 there may be some clarification needed. 39 00:01:42,632 --> 00:01:43,233 Yes, exactly. 40 00:01:43,921 --> 00:01:44,662 Speaker 3: Then you can also go deeper. 41 00:01:44,683 --> 00:01:49,802 Speaker 2: Yes, and we're going to do that absolutely, but maybe 42 00:01:49,802 --> 00:01:51,040 you can, before we start there, explain a little more about 43 00:01:51,602 --> 00:01:53,790 what you do practically with the Present. 44 00:01:54,159 --> 00:01:56,950 Speaker 3: Yes, well, actually, we bring entrepreneurs together. 45 00:01:56,950 --> 00:02:00,459 The heart of the Present is that's called the Present 100. 46 00:02:00,459 --> 00:02:03,546 That's a group of entrepreneurs who all actually carry our 47 00:02:03,566 --> 00:02:04,028 budget with them. 48 00:02:04,028 --> 00:02:09,897 It's also so a group of entrepreneurs who all actually 49 00:02:09,826 --> 00:02:10,241 carry our budget with them. 50 00:02:10,241 --> 00:02:11,355 There will be a new form of entrepreneurship in which they 51 00:02:11,283 --> 00:02:13,033 say, yes, they just pay a kind of annual fee from 2,500 euros, 52 00:02:12,961 --> 00:02:15,516 consciously from there are others who want to contribute 53 00:02:15,537 --> 00:02:17,763 more, who make our work possible , and it is also an invitation 54 00:02:17,782 --> 00:02:20,289 to really contribute from your expertise and your network and 55 00:02:20,310 --> 00:02:21,622 your knowledge and experience. 56 00:02:21,622 --> 00:02:25,925 And we do that towards existing projects, so social and 57 00:02:25,945 --> 00:02:27,960 sustainable projects and programs that are already there, 58 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,792 to further support them and expertise, but also develop our 59 00:02:31,852 --> 00:02:32,758 own programs. 60 00:02:32,758 --> 00:02:35,628 So that means that people can rise up from that group and say, 61 00:02:35,628 --> 00:02:41,070 well, I have a certain ideal and I want to show this to the 62 00:02:41,111 --> 00:02:43,557 light and who in this group wants to help me with that? 63 00:02:43,557 --> 00:02:46,383 And that we from the core team of the Present also facilitate 64 00:02:46,424 --> 00:02:47,548 that and connect there again. 65 00:02:47,548 --> 00:02:52,483 So bring members of the Present 100 together, because we think 66 00:02:52,503 --> 00:02:54,822 they have relevant experience at this level and they can help to 67 00:02:54,822 --> 00:02:55,383 speed this up. 68 00:02:55,664 --> 00:02:56,687 Can you give some examples? 69 00:02:56,687 --> 00:03:00,766 Certainly, yes, so there is an entrepreneur who wants to start 70 00:03:00,847 --> 00:03:01,889 a talent academy. 71 00:03:01,889 --> 00:03:03,413 That was an ideal of him. 72 00:03:03,413 --> 00:03:08,941 He has a bicultural background, so born here, no parents and 73 00:03:09,563 --> 00:03:11,028 people with a bicultural background who are going to 74 00:03:11,049 --> 00:03:11,901 study there. 75 00:03:11,901 --> 00:03:13,205 You see a high dropout percentage. 76 00:03:13,205 --> 00:03:16,561 So that has to do with their parents not having studied and 77 00:03:16,621 --> 00:03:18,908 asking themselves if that makes sense and if they can work 78 00:03:18,929 --> 00:03:19,110 better. 79 00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:22,502 Mediates are not always sufficiently available so that 80 00:03:22,562 --> 00:03:25,441 you as a student really have to finance everything yourself, not 81 00:03:25,441 --> 00:03:28,850 only study, but also your room and everything that comes with 82 00:03:28,871 --> 00:03:28,931 it. 83 00:03:28,931 --> 00:03:30,168 So you're very busy. 84 00:03:30,168 --> 00:03:33,762 Unfortunately, discrimination also comes with it and that 85 00:03:33,782 --> 00:03:37,251 means that, relatively speaking, many more students from this 86 00:03:37,270 --> 00:03:39,544 group within the first few years say you know what? 87 00:03:39,544 --> 00:03:42,822 Just look it up, I'm going to do something different, and 88 00:03:42,842 --> 00:03:43,403 that's a waste of time. 89 00:03:43,403 --> 00:03:46,781 So he wants to set up an academy With role models, with 90 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:52,203 self-bicultural backgrounds that can help students With network 91 00:03:52,424 --> 00:03:53,007 life skills. 92 00:03:53,007 --> 00:03:54,283 That's an example. 93 00:03:54,283 --> 00:03:59,087 His entrepreneur is busy With tiny forest plants. 94 00:03:59,087 --> 00:04:03,260 Actually, just bring green, especially in urban areas, in 95 00:04:03,421 --> 00:04:05,876 areas where there is very little green. 96 00:04:05,876 --> 00:04:06,450 Children at school, maybe the parents don't even have the 97 00:04:06,383 --> 00:04:06,837 opportunity aanbrengen. 98 00:04:06,770 --> 00:04:07,182 Met name ook in stedelijke gebieden, in wijken, waar heel 99 00:04:07,115 --> 00:04:07,300 weinig groen is. 100 00:04:07,300 --> 00:04:08,169 Kinderen op school zitten van de ouders misschien niet eens de 101 00:04:08,169 --> 00:04:10,782 gelegenheid zijn, om in het weekend even lekker naar het bos 102 00:04:10,782 --> 00:04:14,663 te gaan, want het treinkaartje kost veel geld, want geen auto, 103 00:04:15,826 --> 00:04:19,009 dus de hele contact met natuur zijn kwijtgeraakt. 104 00:04:19,009 --> 00:04:23,464 Dus de borrelt uit die groep van alles op Dit, wat ik draag, 105 00:04:23,485 --> 00:04:24,286 trouwens, big Hug. 106 00:04:24,286 --> 00:04:27,310 Ik heb een sweater aan, op de ene mouw staat Big en de andere 107 00:04:27,331 --> 00:04:27,550 Hug. 108 00:04:27,550 --> 00:04:29,593 We staan ook met camera's hier, dus we kunnen het misschien 109 00:04:29,613 --> 00:04:29,954 laten zien. 110 00:04:31,980 --> 00:04:33,399 Maar dit is ook ontwikkeld door twee ondernemers uit de groep, 111 00:04:33,879 --> 00:04:35,899 Die zeiden van we willen eigenlijk gewoon bestaande 112 00:04:36,019 --> 00:04:39,567 sweaters gaan upcyclen En deze tekst erop doen als een soort 113 00:04:39,779 --> 00:04:44,307 vanuit de gedachte van the idea that everyone can use a HUC. 114 00:04:44,307 --> 00:04:48,862 So in the area of mental reliability and there are more 115 00:04:48,901 --> 00:04:52,442 and more people who come into the know we are going to develop 116 00:04:52,442 --> 00:04:55,511 those sweaters, and we also launched a big HUC award last 117 00:04:55,610 --> 00:04:59,375 year and it will come back every year with prices and money that 118 00:04:59,375 --> 00:05:01,889 is brought up from that group and we then extend that. 119 00:05:01,889 --> 00:05:03,706 So these kinds of things come from the group. 120 00:05:03,706 --> 00:05:07,067 So it's all about doing it together. 121 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:09,540 Speaker 2: And what kind of entrepreneurs are there in such 122 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:09,862 a group? 123 00:05:10,122 --> 00:05:11,024 Speaker 3: Yes, quite diverse. 124 00:05:11,024 --> 00:05:14,961 Well, actually, very diverse is compared to the standard 125 00:05:15,002 --> 00:05:18,831 entrepreneur clubs, which are often very masculine and where 126 00:05:18,850 --> 00:05:22,024 it is very much about how much turnover you make and how much 127 00:05:22,064 --> 00:05:23,088 profit you make. 128 00:05:23,088 --> 00:05:25,452 So we have a very nice mix of men and women here. 129 00:05:25,452 --> 00:05:27,607 Cultural origins in age well mixed. 130 00:05:27,607 --> 00:05:31,447 Also in portmonee, quite mixed. 131 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,464 So you see what people who contribute that year Quite with 132 00:05:37,504 --> 00:05:40,434 their asses together is, but who still want to believe in it. 133 00:05:40,434 --> 00:05:44,002 It opens up a nice new network for them, and for others it is 134 00:05:44,023 --> 00:05:45,310 maybe pocket money Because they have already made a huge exit. 135 00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:47,079 A new network for them, and for others it's maybe pocket money 136 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,363 Because they have already made a huge exit a few times. 137 00:05:50,363 --> 00:05:51,165 So that's all in between. 138 00:05:51,165 --> 00:05:54,069 So also in different phases of life as an entrepreneur, and 139 00:05:54,089 --> 00:05:57,235 that's very nice Because we have to bring that together. 140 00:05:57,235 --> 00:06:01,692 So you also have the real social entrepreneur in the group 141 00:06:01,692 --> 00:06:03,745 , the role models that run ahead in ideals but maybe still have 142 00:06:03,785 --> 00:06:06,459 to struggle a lot in terms of finance, and, on the other hand, 143 00:06:06,459 --> 00:06:09,216 entrepreneurs who have earned a lot of money with other things 144 00:06:09,502 --> 00:06:11,084 and now they have come to the point where they think, hey, I 145 00:06:11,103 --> 00:06:13,442 want to give something back to society, but they are not 146 00:06:13,502 --> 00:06:16,269 necessarily the impact. 147 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:22,290 Entrepreneurs yes, certainly, but not all of them. 148 00:06:22,350 --> 00:06:22,994 Speaker 2: Not exclusively. 149 00:06:22,994 --> 00:06:23,516 Not exclusively. 150 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:24,846 Speaker 3: No, we actually select very much on Niet 151 00:06:24,865 --> 00:06:26,252 allemaal, niet uitsluitend, niet uitsluitend, nee, nee, wij 152 00:06:26,271 --> 00:06:30,105 selecteren eigenlijk heel erg op Zijn mensen echt bereid, om een 153 00:06:30,105 --> 00:06:31,067 bijdrage te leveren. 154 00:06:31,067 --> 00:06:34,406 Vanuit hun ondernemerschap Geloven ze ook, zien ze ook hun 155 00:06:34,425 --> 00:06:37,485 eigen privilege daarin, wat het niet heel erg ego gedreven is 156 00:06:37,504 --> 00:06:40,300 van kijk mij, wat ik allemaal heb bereikt, en ik heb dat 157 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,524 allemaal zelf gedaan, en daarom kan ik nu heel veel sportauto's 158 00:06:44,543 --> 00:06:46,026 gaan kopen en buitenhuizen. 159 00:06:46,026 --> 00:06:47,367 Dus dat is. 160 00:06:47,367 --> 00:06:51,069 Ik weet niet, of je het boek Second Mountain kent, maar ja, 161 00:06:51,130 --> 00:06:53,593 dat is de eerste berg beklimmen, dat gaat over. 162 00:06:53,593 --> 00:06:55,293 Kijk mij nou, wat ik allemaal kan. 163 00:06:55,293 --> 00:06:58,057 En dat is niet allemaal meteen verkeerd of zo. 164 00:06:58,057 --> 00:07:01,343 We willen allemaal ontdekken, wat je kunt. 165 00:07:01,343 --> 00:07:04,129 Maar vervolgens, en dat is die Second Mountain, is het van 166 00:07:04,149 --> 00:07:07,536 mountain how can I make this much more useful to the world 167 00:07:07,555 --> 00:07:09,098 around me and the problems I am aware of? 168 00:07:10,843 --> 00:07:16,156 Speaker 2: That's funny indeed, a nice way to look at it. 169 00:07:16,156 --> 00:07:21,521 I think, that's something I recognize myself, and I think 170 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,245 it's something a lot of people experience, not just as an 171 00:07:24,264 --> 00:07:27,329 entrepreneur, but that you're first of all busy with what you 172 00:07:27,350 --> 00:07:33,041 can do yourself and that at some point there comes a point where 173 00:07:33,041 --> 00:07:34,766 you think wait a minute, this is all nice, but what does that 174 00:07:35,225 --> 00:07:36,749 mean at the end of the story? 175 00:07:36,749 --> 00:07:37,069 Yes, exactly. 176 00:07:41,264 --> 00:07:42,608 Speaker 3: I'm going to call it a midlife crisis, but 177 00:07:42,649 --> 00:07:44,555 fortunately there are also a lot of people, and more and more, 178 00:07:44,574 --> 00:07:46,300 who are very aware of that much earlier in their lives. 179 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,408 I also work a lot with 20-year-olds, who are much more 180 00:07:50,528 --> 00:07:51,629 aware than I was at the time. 181 00:07:51,629 --> 00:07:57,505 But it's true, what you say. 182 00:07:57,505 --> 00:08:01,733 It's of course discovering your talent and what you can do and 183 00:08:01,793 --> 00:08:06,302 achieve, kunst doen en bereiken. 184 00:08:06,302 --> 00:08:07,548 Als daar dan aantal dingen in lukken, dan komt, als het goed 185 00:08:07,567 --> 00:08:08,312 is, ook steeds meer bewustzijn van gol. 186 00:08:08,312 --> 00:08:09,759 Maar dat heb ik eigenlijk ook wel, heb ik veel mazzel gehad en 187 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:12,065 heel veel te danken gehad en allemaal anderen. 188 00:08:12,065 --> 00:08:16,139 En nou, wat zou ik hier, hoe zou ik dit nu kunnen inzetten 189 00:08:16,158 --> 00:08:18,182 voor een betere wereld? 190 00:08:18,541 --> 00:08:22,004 Speaker 2: als je nu kijkt, en je hebt nu dus een soort 191 00:08:22,346 --> 00:08:23,507 ondernemersclub eigenlijk. 192 00:08:23,507 --> 00:08:26,449 You have now actually created a kind of entrepreneur club with 193 00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:30,514 all entrepreneurs who would like to contribute something more to 194 00:08:30,514 --> 00:08:33,836 the world than a filled bank account. 195 00:08:33,836 --> 00:08:38,788 You just said before that you have also been commercially 196 00:08:39,308 --> 00:08:40,652 active as an entrepreneur. 197 00:08:40,652 --> 00:08:43,240 How does something like this arise? 198 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,578 How do you get from there to where you are now? 199 00:08:47,241 --> 00:08:48,986 Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't determine, in the right line and 200 00:08:48,986 --> 00:08:49,828 with a planned plan. 201 00:08:49,828 --> 00:08:53,408 As is often suggested. 202 00:08:53,809 --> 00:08:55,479 That is mostly total nonsense. 203 00:08:55,479 --> 00:08:57,804 No, I'm still with the present. 204 00:08:57,804 --> 00:09:00,451 100 now is actually a very recent development. 205 00:09:00,451 --> 00:09:04,121 We've only been doing that for a year and a half or so To make 206 00:09:04,182 --> 00:09:05,989 it much more central within the present. 207 00:09:05,989 --> 00:09:09,539 But yes, back to what I did before. 208 00:09:09,539 --> 00:09:11,586 So I come from the creative industry. 209 00:09:11,586 --> 00:09:17,503 I set up a number of PR offices One that grew a lot Business 210 00:09:17,562 --> 00:09:20,062 partner, two partners bought in at the time and we grew in 10 211 00:09:20,081 --> 00:09:22,629 years to 50 people at a people, which is quite a lot for a PR 212 00:09:22,669 --> 00:09:22,890 agency. 213 00:09:22,890 --> 00:09:25,265 It wasn't our intention. 214 00:09:25,265 --> 00:09:28,548 We wanted to be the best and the best PR agency. 215 00:09:28,548 --> 00:09:30,740 We became one of the biggest. 216 00:09:31,607 --> 00:09:32,658 Speaker 2: People come to you when you're the best. 217 00:09:33,264 --> 00:09:34,740 Speaker 3: Yes, it becomes a magnet. 218 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:38,678 So that's right, people wanted a great place to work. 219 00:09:38,678 --> 00:09:43,291 We were focused on, I think, a very nice culture to put down, 220 00:09:44,580 --> 00:09:47,153 and at the same time, there was still a lot of everything for me 221 00:09:47,153 --> 00:09:47,153 . 222 00:09:47,153 --> 00:09:52,085 And look, I had a clear dream as a 20-year-old I wanted to do 223 00:09:52,105 --> 00:09:54,620 business and I wanted to write, and I also wanted to mean 224 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,841 something for the world from the core of what I do. 225 00:09:55,841 --> 00:09:57,845 And that was then, yes, then already, and that wasn't all at 226 00:09:57,865 --> 00:09:59,047 the same, doe iets voor de wereld betekenen. 227 00:09:59,067 --> 00:10:00,609 Toen al Ja, toen al, en dat kon niet allemaal tegelijkertijd, 228 00:10:00,629 --> 00:10:02,791 maar dat was er wel al, en ik heb mijn eigen droom al heel 229 00:10:02,812 --> 00:10:03,572 serieus genomen. 230 00:10:03,572 --> 00:10:06,056 Dus dat ondernemen is daar ben ik toen mee gestart. 231 00:10:06,056 --> 00:10:10,441 Dat was toen net voor mijn dertigste Eigenlijk de 232 00:10:10,461 --> 00:10:13,943 studietijd al, want er was nog wat spielerij. 233 00:10:13,943 --> 00:10:16,847 Maar dit toen met dit PR-bureau was voor, and in the end I 234 00:10:16,868 --> 00:10:19,370 wrote my first book after 10 years and in the end in 235 00:10:19,690 --> 00:10:23,595 retrospect it turned out to be a bit strict on my entrepreneur's 236 00:10:23,595 --> 00:10:25,836 journey in the PR world. 237 00:10:25,836 --> 00:10:28,404 I didn't know that back then, but I did notice that that third 238 00:10:28,404 --> 00:10:31,431 dream about wanting to mean something for the world became 239 00:10:31,451 --> 00:10:35,729 clearer, it became more urgent and I was also annoyed in that 240 00:10:35,788 --> 00:10:36,070 world. 241 00:10:39,289 --> 00:10:41,817 Have you always seen that in that way, when I have three 242 00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:41,958 dreams. 243 00:10:41,958 --> 00:10:45,767 Yes, I had that as a 20-year-old, so it's very clear. 244 00:10:45,767 --> 00:10:47,614 And then I spoke to people with gray hair and they all wanted 245 00:10:47,634 --> 00:10:49,942 it at the same time and they said you know, you can really do 246 00:10:49,942 --> 00:10:51,686 it in eight years or in 12 years. 247 00:10:51,686 --> 00:10:53,871 You can do a lot of different things in your life. 248 00:10:53,871 --> 00:10:56,605 Why don't you just start doing business first and then you'll 249 00:10:56,625 --> 00:10:58,207 see what will come out of there? 250 00:10:58,207 --> 00:11:00,351 Well, that was actually a very good tip and what I said, those 251 00:11:00,392 --> 00:11:04,889 things that I I think I just feel very clearly of what I want 252 00:11:04,889 --> 00:11:05,613 to do in this life. 253 00:11:05,613 --> 00:11:08,046 I take that very seriously. 254 00:11:08,046 --> 00:11:10,279 I don't rule that out. 255 00:11:10,279 --> 00:11:13,033 If I feel that it becomes clearer, then I'm going to do 256 00:11:13,072 --> 00:11:15,301 something with it, and that's also a bit entrepreneurial. 257 00:11:15,301 --> 00:11:18,023 I think you can talk about it all day long, but you just see 258 00:11:18,043 --> 00:11:19,203 the presence with such a group. 259 00:11:19,224 --> 00:11:20,664 Speaker 2: They want to do something, they want to get 260 00:11:20,684 --> 00:11:22,846 together, but I think that's one of the things we were just 261 00:11:22,866 --> 00:11:24,067 talking about. 262 00:11:24,067 --> 00:11:25,729 I also see that entrepreneurship is a very 263 00:11:25,789 --> 00:11:28,772 important key in solving a lot of problems that we now have in 264 00:11:28,792 --> 00:11:29,533 society. 265 00:11:29,533 --> 00:11:38,523 I totally agree, because that's for a very large part because 266 00:11:38,543 --> 00:11:41,125 there is a lot of crime and because there is a lot of action 267 00:11:41,125 --> 00:11:45,892 in it that you don't have to expect from the government and 268 00:11:46,091 --> 00:11:49,035 the consumers as a meute, so to speak, also not. 269 00:11:50,081 --> 00:11:52,385 Speaker 3: Well, the latter I'm not entirely with you, but I do 270 00:11:52,485 --> 00:11:54,769 agree with you that such an entrepreneur, who is of course 271 00:11:54,791 --> 00:11:57,764 also just a citizen and a consumer, is, I think I see that 272 00:11:57,764 --> 00:12:01,982 , differently from individual consumers, from people as an 273 00:12:02,023 --> 00:12:06,221 individual crime, and be a lot of power and speed in it, only 274 00:12:06,260 --> 00:12:09,528 from the whole of the consumers? 275 00:12:09,548 --> 00:12:11,033 Speaker 2: I don't see that. 276 00:12:13,068 --> 00:12:14,437 Speaker 3: Yes, but you see bigger and bigger movements 277 00:12:14,456 --> 00:12:14,618 arising. 278 00:12:14,618 --> 00:12:18,471 Look at Extinction, rebellion, what they get for each other. 279 00:12:18,471 --> 00:12:24,702 So, yes, especially when people unite, of course, only, I think 280 00:12:24,702 --> 00:12:26,027 , with entrepreneurs. 281 00:12:26,027 --> 00:12:29,355 You need less mass, because an entrepreneur, who can, he has a 282 00:12:29,375 --> 00:12:29,797 lot of mass. 283 00:12:29,797 --> 00:12:31,083 Yes, he has so much. 284 00:12:31,083 --> 00:12:36,844 They are influential people, above average, influential, and 285 00:12:36,864 --> 00:12:39,909 not only with means, but also from the network and what you 286 00:12:39,929 --> 00:12:41,994 say, the force of action, leadership. 287 00:12:41,994 --> 00:12:45,645 I think it's very nice that you , with entrepreneurs also, yes, 288 00:12:45,666 --> 00:12:47,740 very quickly clear Do you participate? 289 00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:49,586 You get a yes or no? 290 00:12:49,586 --> 00:12:53,344 And if you talk to corporates, then you are often months away 291 00:12:53,423 --> 00:12:56,277 and then very often it still becomes no, and then it was an 292 00:12:56,317 --> 00:12:57,186 enormous waste of time. 293 00:12:57,186 --> 00:12:59,827 So there is that systemic problem, of course, much bigger. 294 00:12:59,827 --> 00:13:00,902 Yes, there is, and I have, and that was an enormous waste of 295 00:13:00,831 --> 00:13:00,910 time. 296 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:01,399 So there, the systemic problem is much bigger. 297 00:13:01,327 --> 00:13:03,616 Speaker 2: It is, of course yes, there is, and I have also 298 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:09,528 thought about it what makes entrepreneurs MKBers, that it 299 00:13:09,548 --> 00:13:12,514 works so differently than with corporates. 300 00:13:12,514 --> 00:13:15,541 But that is actually not that complicated, because the point 301 00:13:15,581 --> 00:13:20,672 is that if you look at who has it for what the goal of the 302 00:13:20,731 --> 00:13:27,162 company is, then there is a MKB company or entrepreneur that is 303 00:13:27,182 --> 00:13:30,927 just one person or family and they can say everything goes 304 00:13:30,966 --> 00:13:34,659 according to my calculation or we're going to do something else 305 00:13:34,659 --> 00:13:34,659 . 306 00:13:34,659 --> 00:13:38,105 If you look at a corporate, then there is actually a kind of 307 00:13:38,105 --> 00:13:41,330 they have generally anonymous shareholders. 308 00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:48,572 There is a kind of division between the management of the 309 00:13:48,611 --> 00:13:50,375 company and the one who eventually takes the money. 310 00:13:50,375 --> 00:13:51,177 Yes, who has the profit. 311 00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:57,129 Yes, and that makes, say, the one who manages the company. 312 00:13:57,129 --> 00:14:00,573 He just has the task to provide as much money as possible for 313 00:14:00,594 --> 00:14:05,749 the owners, but the owners themselves don't see, or don't 314 00:14:05,769 --> 00:14:08,475 have to delve into, what has to happen for that. 315 00:14:08,475 --> 00:14:08,916 No, that's right. 316 00:14:08,916 --> 00:14:11,869 So that's disconnected, and that's actually, in my opinion, 317 00:14:11,889 --> 00:14:12,410 where it goes wrong. 318 00:14:13,666 --> 00:14:17,019 Speaker 3: You could even say it's dehumanized Exactly In the 319 00:14:17,041 --> 00:14:17,961 conversation with Ruben. 320 00:14:18,042 --> 00:14:19,864 Speaker 2: We also talked about the fact, that when you really 321 00:14:19,884 --> 00:14:23,229 see the other and talk to someone and understand someone's 322 00:14:23,229 --> 00:14:25,913 context, then you will automatically put pressure on 323 00:14:25,952 --> 00:14:29,062 whether things are going well with the other, and then you 324 00:14:29,102 --> 00:14:30,126 will weigh that in your decisions. 325 00:14:30,126 --> 00:14:34,769 The moment you no longer see the other, then it is also not 326 00:14:34,808 --> 00:14:37,754 logical to take the interests of the other with you in your 327 00:14:37,774 --> 00:14:38,035 decision. 328 00:14:38,035 --> 00:14:40,091 That does not go by itself in any case, and the less you see 329 00:14:40,039 --> 00:14:40,392 the other, the easier it becomes to not do it. 330 00:14:40,392 --> 00:14:40,879 De belangen van die ander mee te nemen in je beslissing. 331 00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:41,356 Dat gaat niet vanzelf in ieder geval. 332 00:14:41,356 --> 00:14:42,693 En hoe minder je de ander ziet, hoe makkelijker het wordt, om 333 00:14:42,714 --> 00:14:43,215 het niet te doen. 334 00:14:43,215 --> 00:14:45,547 En dat is eigenlijk, wat er natuurlijk bij corporates 335 00:14:45,586 --> 00:14:45,989 gebeurt. 336 00:14:45,989 --> 00:14:50,210 Degene, die uiteindelijk echt het voor het zeggen heeft, de 337 00:14:50,269 --> 00:14:54,389 aandeelhouder, die heeft geen verbinding meer met wat er 338 00:14:54,610 --> 00:14:55,051 beneden. 339 00:14:55,051 --> 00:14:57,663 Nee, wat op de werkvloer gebeurt Hoe er? 340 00:14:57,682 --> 00:14:59,385 Speaker 3: No, because the workflow happens, how people are 341 00:14:59,385 --> 00:15:01,028 dealt with, how the world is dealt with. 342 00:15:01,048 --> 00:15:01,610 No, that's right. 343 00:15:01,610 --> 00:15:02,851 Actually, my first book was about that. 344 00:15:02,851 --> 00:15:07,023 It's called People's Trade Literally dare to put people in 345 00:15:07,102 --> 00:15:07,363 trade. 346 00:15:07,363 --> 00:15:10,567 And in that I also noticed in those days we still had a PR 347 00:15:10,607 --> 00:15:11,028 office. 348 00:15:11,028 --> 00:15:15,014 And if you then came to look for, well, we worked for a lot 349 00:15:15,033 --> 00:15:20,647 of big multinationals and I was surprised by that Along the A10 350 00:15:20,667 --> 00:15:23,232 you had that I don't want to name names the ING office. 351 00:15:23,232 --> 00:15:24,855 You know that shoe. 352 00:15:24,855 --> 00:15:28,480 Well, there was the ING in the past and you went there to visit 353 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,208 and then you had a whole row of BMW 7-series in front of the 354 00:15:31,229 --> 00:15:34,321 door and then you came in and it was all marble, a very long 355 00:15:34,341 --> 00:15:37,345 bally with all the ladies who received you there, and then you 356 00:15:37,345 --> 00:15:38,746 got your badge and then you went up a yes. 357 00:15:38,746 --> 00:15:49,466 And then I asked him does the council of administration drink 358 00:15:49,486 --> 00:15:49,687 this too? 359 00:15:49,687 --> 00:15:51,000 No, no, no. 360 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,706 Above they had fresh ground beans and coffee. 361 00:15:52,706 --> 00:15:56,567 So that exists anyway and that it still happens. 362 00:16:00,706 --> 00:16:02,312 Speaker 2: Yes, probably around the same time that was my 363 00:16:02,331 --> 00:16:04,116 student time I was in a call center at ING. 364 00:16:04,116 --> 00:16:07,609 Oh, yes, so I know the benches with tap water. 365 00:16:07,609 --> 00:16:12,205 But yes, that is indeed, we have linked that in a crazy way 366 00:16:12,706 --> 00:16:13,628 with each other. 367 00:16:13,628 --> 00:16:14,408 How that works. 368 00:16:18,745 --> 00:16:20,755 Speaker 3: And that's fine if you want to save costs but then 369 00:16:20,796 --> 00:16:23,666 you have it all and don't do it in plastic bags anymore but 370 00:16:23,686 --> 00:16:25,812 there will be something in the meantime, I hope. 371 00:16:25,812 --> 00:16:27,605 I dare not say. 372 00:16:28,408 --> 00:16:29,431 Speaker 2: Where were we? 373 00:16:29,431 --> 00:16:31,961 Well, not at ING. 374 00:16:31,961 --> 00:16:34,004 Where were we Not at ING? 375 00:16:34,004 --> 00:16:38,668 The thing is also that, on the one hand, I think that there is 376 00:16:38,687 --> 00:16:40,028 responsibility for everyone. 377 00:16:40,028 --> 00:16:43,152 On the other hand, you can take it individually. 378 00:16:43,152 --> 00:16:47,596 People also, but to a certain extent, because they also 379 00:16:47,635 --> 00:16:51,785 function in a system, no of course it's not that there are 380 00:16:51,806 --> 00:16:52,107 bad people. 381 00:16:52,128 --> 00:16:55,809 That is the the the scary thing about it. 382 00:16:55,809 --> 00:16:58,644 The dangerous thing about it, is that it is also very easy to 383 00:16:58,664 --> 00:17:00,802 not take responsibility. 384 00:17:00,802 --> 00:17:05,329 Of course, what you often see with large companies that if 385 00:17:05,371 --> 00:17:07,345 they take a responsibility, then no one is at home. 386 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: No, then they are pointed out to each other and 387 00:17:11,041 --> 00:17:12,508 everyone gets a little bit of that. 388 00:17:12,642 --> 00:17:14,144 Speaker 2: Yes, apart from things from the outside, you see 389 00:17:14,144 --> 00:17:16,116 that within such a company already, when something is not 390 00:17:16,136 --> 00:17:20,868 going well, then all departments point to each other and at the 391 00:17:20,909 --> 00:17:22,459 end of the day everyone is in the Elthorne house. 392 00:17:23,526 --> 00:17:24,875 Speaker 3: And people are not happy about it. 393 00:17:24,875 --> 00:17:28,374 I believe that there are also people working with ideals and 394 00:17:28,394 --> 00:17:29,961 who want to get something out of each other, and of course they 395 00:17:29,980 --> 00:17:31,165 also walk very hard with their heads against the wall. 396 00:17:31,165 --> 00:17:31,748 Too little movement arises. 397 00:17:31,748 --> 00:17:33,393 Ideale en, die iets van elkaar willen krijgen, want die lopen 398 00:17:33,413 --> 00:17:34,838 natuurlijk ook heel hard met hun hoofd tegen de muur aan. 399 00:17:34,838 --> 00:17:36,323 Te weinig beweging ontstaat. 400 00:17:36,604 --> 00:17:38,830 Speaker 2: Nee, ja, maar ik moet zeggen, ik vind dat heel knap. 401 00:17:38,830 --> 00:17:43,250 Als je dat volhoudt, ja, als je daar nee, maar als je daar, als 402 00:17:43,250 --> 00:17:44,517 je dat kan, als je. 403 00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:47,500 Speaker 3: Ja, ik vind het ook wel knap, als je hier uitstapt. 404 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,863 Speaker 2: Vind ik ook inderdaad , I think so too, indeed, but 405 00:17:50,282 --> 00:17:53,044 both for their own reasons, I think. 406 00:17:53,505 --> 00:17:56,026 Speaker 3: Rutger Bregman now has his upcoming book about 407 00:17:56,286 --> 00:17:57,326 moral ambition. 408 00:17:57,326 --> 00:18:01,388 His big story here is, of course, the most played good at 409 00:18:01,410 --> 00:18:02,690 this moment in the world is talent. 410 00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:06,913 So why are people on the South Pole at companies very 411 00:18:06,932 --> 00:18:10,734 intelligent people there who are , of course, paid very well for 412 00:18:10,775 --> 00:18:12,355 it, but what are they doing exactly? 413 00:18:12,355 --> 00:18:15,077 What do those companies really contribute to in the world? 414 00:18:17,162 --> 00:18:17,767 Speaker 2: Yes, and that we also Look. 415 00:18:17,767 --> 00:18:20,791 One of the things we are very good at, not only in the West, 416 00:18:20,811 --> 00:18:23,707 but also in the Netherlands, is a system in which we are very 417 00:18:23,727 --> 00:18:26,406 busy with keeping and controlling things and not doing 418 00:18:26,406 --> 00:18:29,809 so much with things, but we absolutely lost a lot there. 419 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,090 Speaker 3: That's not the ideal world. 420 00:18:31,621 --> 00:18:32,808 Speaker 2: No, that's not the ideal world. 421 00:18:32,808 --> 00:18:34,138 No, that's not the ideal world. 422 00:18:34,138 --> 00:18:36,548 It doesn't fit so well in your ideal book. 423 00:18:38,962 --> 00:18:39,906 Speaker 3: It looks very different. 424 00:18:39,926 --> 00:18:46,329 Speaker 2: Yes, Maar you were talking about your journey from 425 00:18:46,391 --> 00:18:48,173 entrepreneurship to the present. 426 00:18:48,579 --> 00:18:51,749 Speaker 3: Yes, how that moment then arises that you start. 427 00:18:51,749 --> 00:18:54,464 Dan ontstaat uiteindelijk, dat je zoiets begint als wat nu de 428 00:18:54,484 --> 00:18:56,351 present movement heet. 429 00:18:56,351 --> 00:19:01,101 Ja, dus, dat was na die tien jaar groei in dat PR-bureau Toen 430 00:19:01,101 --> 00:19:01,101 . 431 00:19:01,101 --> 00:19:03,509 Eigenlijk wilde ik er toen al uit. 432 00:19:03,509 --> 00:19:05,371 Ik zat al niet meer zo lekker erin, en toen ging het in één 433 00:19:05,391 --> 00:19:05,772 keer niet goed. 434 00:19:05,772 --> 00:19:07,170 Dus toen draaide ik een kwart miljoen verlies. 435 00:19:07,170 --> 00:19:08,162 Toen moesten tien mensen uit. 436 00:19:08,162 --> 00:19:09,566 Dat is natuurlijk heel he ten people out. 437 00:19:09,566 --> 00:19:10,067 It's very intense. 438 00:19:10,067 --> 00:19:11,932 It's not the moment where you say, well, you know, I'm going 439 00:19:12,294 --> 00:19:12,915 to do something else. 440 00:19:12,915 --> 00:19:15,791 So there's also just, well, the sense of responsibility is a 441 00:19:15,811 --> 00:19:16,220 bit too great for it. 442 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:21,231 So I also stayed to help Zwarte Cijfers to run again. 443 00:19:21,231 --> 00:19:22,356 But then it was really the end of the world. 444 00:19:22,356 --> 00:19:28,144 Yes, and that was financially not the most attractive with 445 00:19:28,163 --> 00:19:30,548 such a bad year behind my back. 446 00:19:30,548 --> 00:19:32,471 So my financial advisor said, yes, stay for two more years to 447 00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:33,471 go back to the old level. 448 00:19:33,471 --> 00:19:36,320 But I really couldn't do that anymore. 449 00:19:36,781 --> 00:19:40,549 And what was playing out then was the refugee crisis, and so 450 00:19:40,569 --> 00:19:43,464 of course a lot of people came, especially because of the war in 451 00:19:43,464 --> 00:19:43,644 Syria. 452 00:19:43,644 --> 00:19:48,041 So in 1516, through those Greek islands that are on the Turkish 453 00:19:48,041 --> 00:19:53,416 coast Lesbos, samos, kos In enormous numbers at the same 454 00:19:53,436 --> 00:19:56,931 time in those boats and I found that very intense, and I had a 455 00:19:56,971 --> 00:19:58,858 few people with direct environment who said I'm not 456 00:19:58,878 --> 00:20:00,888 going to watch the news any longer, I'm just going to go 457 00:20:00,909 --> 00:20:02,477 there, I'm going to see what I can do. 458 00:20:02,477 --> 00:20:04,724 That inspired me very much, but then we were still in the 459 00:20:04,744 --> 00:20:08,256 middle of the shit with our company. 460 00:20:08,256 --> 00:20:11,425 A whole other order, enlarged, of course, but well, there was 461 00:20:11,506 --> 00:20:12,147 also something to do. 462 00:20:12,147 --> 00:20:14,945 But that has me. 463 00:20:14,945 --> 00:20:16,098 There were some seeds planted then. 464 00:20:16,098 --> 00:20:21,102 So the moment I left the company at the end of 2016, I 465 00:20:21,122 --> 00:20:22,519 left my own child behind, so to speak. 466 00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:24,968 So I sold the shares and there are the shareholders. 467 00:20:24,968 --> 00:20:29,516 Then I also went to Lesbos in 2017. 468 00:20:30,261 --> 00:20:32,442 Also to see what I can do from the network that I have with 469 00:20:32,502 --> 00:20:33,025 entrepreneurs. 470 00:20:33,025 --> 00:20:38,410 What could I contribute and if I go there, what does that do to 471 00:20:38,410 --> 00:20:41,008 me and what can I learn? 472 00:20:41,008 --> 00:20:47,401 I saw that I could not do volunteer work for months, but I 473 00:20:47,401 --> 00:20:50,304 wanted to understand it and then see what I can do from the 474 00:20:50,324 --> 00:20:51,086 Netherlands and what did it do to you? 475 00:20:51,086 --> 00:20:51,208 A lot. 476 00:20:51,208 --> 00:20:51,528 I was hit a lot. 477 00:20:51,528 --> 00:20:52,673 I went to understand it and see what I could do from the 478 00:20:52,694 --> 00:20:53,558 Netherlands and what did it do to you A lot. 479 00:20:53,558 --> 00:20:53,880 I was hit a lot. 480 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:55,807 I went to Cambodia for the first time. 481 00:20:55,807 --> 00:21:00,788 Later I went back a few times Really humane what I saw there. 482 00:21:00,788 --> 00:21:02,284 And I also traveled a lot. 483 00:21:02,284 --> 00:21:04,207 I've been to Africa, I've been to India. 484 00:21:04,207 --> 00:21:05,769 I've seen poverty. 485 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,304 The most intense thing here is that people come from the 486 00:21:10,403 --> 00:21:12,685 environment, just like us, how we are here now, just that 487 00:21:12,746 --> 00:21:13,807 people come from an entire. 488 00:21:13,807 --> 00:21:17,830 Yes, they just come from the environment, just like we are 489 00:21:17,871 --> 00:21:18,491 here now. 490 00:21:18,491 --> 00:21:20,773 There may also be a nice podcast somewhere to make in 491 00:21:20,795 --> 00:21:21,115 Aleppo. 492 00:21:21,115 --> 00:21:24,057 And then you have to flee and then those trips are not only 493 00:21:24,077 --> 00:21:26,059 terrible, but then you think you have achieved Europe. 494 00:21:26,059 --> 00:21:28,863 What is presented is the bag of the civilization. 495 00:21:29,002 --> 00:21:32,928 And you just come to a camp where thousands of people are 496 00:21:32,948 --> 00:21:38,134 there Too few sanitary people, hours in line for food Not to 497 00:21:38,153 --> 00:21:39,335 eat, also very bad hygiene. 498 00:21:39,335 --> 00:21:40,997 Yes, not to do, really not to do. 499 00:21:40,997 --> 00:21:42,321 I was really. 500 00:21:42,321 --> 00:21:43,692 I called my wife in the evening from the hotel. 501 00:21:43,692 --> 00:21:46,086 I really had tears running down my cheeks. 502 00:21:46,086 --> 00:21:47,603 What you don't allow. 503 00:21:47,623 --> 00:21:50,445 If you walk through that camp, because then you think, yes, who 504 00:21:50,445 --> 00:21:51,230 am I to go and cry with you? 505 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:56,273 Those people are. 506 00:21:56,273 --> 00:21:57,160 Later you walk through the camp because then you think, yes, 507 00:21:57,096 --> 00:21:57,090 who am I? 508 00:21:57,090 --> 00:21:57,605 To walk here a little bit, to go to the people who are here so 509 00:21:57,605 --> 00:21:58,188 you bite your lip, but it is makes a very deep impression and 510 00:21:58,188 --> 00:21:59,390 at the same time, I have also seen a lot of beautiful things, 511 00:21:59,326 --> 00:22:00,663 so a lot of beautiful organizations, a lot of 512 00:22:01,184 --> 00:22:05,076 beautiful people who were already active there a few years 513 00:22:05,076 --> 00:22:06,662 ago and, yes, there first went and just found boats and they 514 00:22:06,682 --> 00:22:07,763 thought that we were done with the big ngos. 515 00:22:07,763 --> 00:22:08,405 But they were not there at all. 516 00:22:08,405 --> 00:22:09,628 You just got the babies in their hands and just went. 517 00:22:09,648 --> 00:22:10,971 Yes, how you Boatjes opvingen En die dachten dat wij, de groot 518 00:22:10,991 --> 00:22:12,756 NGO's, wel klaar stonden, maar die waren daar nog helemaal niet 519 00:22:12,756 --> 00:22:12,756 . 520 00:22:12,756 --> 00:22:14,259 Hier hebben we gewoon de baby's in hun handen geduwd gekregen 521 00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:18,820 En gingen gewoon roeien met de riemen die ze hadden, en dat 522 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,626 vond ik heel inspirerend en bewonderenswaardig. 523 00:22:20,626 --> 00:22:23,246 En ik dacht ook meteen Wie ben ik dan, om daar nog weer iets 524 00:22:23,286 --> 00:22:24,028 naast te gaan zetten? 525 00:22:24,028 --> 00:22:34,016 Het is er allemaal, also within the present. 526 00:22:34,016 --> 00:22:34,679 There is already a lot, so we don't have to reinvent 527 00:22:34,556 --> 00:22:35,750 everything every time. 528 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:36,849 There are already a lot of beautiful initiatives that just 529 00:22:36,871 --> 00:22:37,153 need support. 530 00:22:37,153 --> 00:22:40,123 So we have to connect those worlds the world of 531 00:22:40,202 --> 00:22:44,320 entrepreneurs, the world of Actually also entrepreneurs, but 532 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,391 more social and sustainable entrepreneurs, world's Impairers 533 00:22:48,391 --> 00:22:48,858 , changers. 534 00:22:50,003 --> 00:22:51,248 Speaker 2: Is that also what brought you? 535 00:22:51,248 --> 00:22:56,332 Because you said, on the one hand, you went there with the 536 00:22:56,352 --> 00:22:58,640 idea of what does it do to me, but also what can I learn here? 537 00:23:01,688 --> 00:23:04,236 Speaker 3: Yes, there is already a lot, but there is also a lot 538 00:23:04,257 --> 00:23:07,884 needed, and I didn't immediately come back that day. 539 00:23:07,884 --> 00:23:11,673 Now I have the Holy Grail, now I know exactly what I have to do 540 00:23:11,673 --> 00:23:13,045 , but I was already. 541 00:23:13,045 --> 00:23:15,726 I was already on, and that happens just when you go looking 542 00:23:15,726 --> 00:23:17,969 for the active With any subject . 543 00:23:17,969 --> 00:23:21,902 Then also, if you really go on, then you will also be on and 544 00:23:21,922 --> 00:23:22,423 then you can also. 545 00:23:22,423 --> 00:23:23,488 There is just no way back. 546 00:23:24,921 --> 00:23:29,286 So then I organized the first meetups and then I gave a podium 547 00:23:29,286 --> 00:23:32,002 to a founder of such a small-scale initiative what was 548 00:23:32,022 --> 00:23:36,151 active there at Lesbos who came to tell a story about why he was 549 00:23:36,151 --> 00:23:39,670 doing this and showed images and then, with one help request 550 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:42,142 to the group, and the group was all entrepreneurs, so the 551 00:23:42,182 --> 00:23:44,194 audience consisted of entrepreneurs, and then a kind 552 00:23:44,255 --> 00:23:44,980 of crowd consulting arose. 553 00:23:44,980 --> 00:23:47,991 People went in, groups, had to think, along with a question 554 00:23:48,011 --> 00:23:51,780 mark, of that beautiful initiative, and that actually 555 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,784 worked very well, in the sense that it goes further than what 556 00:23:54,804 --> 00:23:55,565 you are inspired by. 557 00:23:55,565 --> 00:23:57,846 It's always nice to be inspired , but the risk is very high that 558 00:23:57,846 --> 00:24:00,888 the next day you just go on with what you were doing. 559 00:24:00,888 --> 00:24:02,529 And here happened a lot more. 560 00:24:02,529 --> 00:24:03,711 It was Inspiration Plus. 561 00:24:03,711 --> 00:24:07,494 People were also activated and immediately from your expertise 562 00:24:07,515 --> 00:24:10,376 and experience contribute, and people then also went to someone 563 00:24:10,376 --> 00:24:11,278 on stage afterwards. 564 00:24:11,278 --> 00:24:14,884 I am touched by your story and here is a business card you 565 00:24:15,026 --> 00:24:15,848 still had business cards. 566 00:24:15,868 --> 00:24:16,250 Speaker 1: What is? 567 00:24:16,270 --> 00:24:16,392 Speaker 3: that? 568 00:24:16,392 --> 00:24:20,748 No, but we will link and I want to get in touch with you. 569 00:24:20,748 --> 00:24:24,432 So people themselves also wanted to give more. 570 00:24:24,432 --> 00:24:28,234 So that was also interesting to see, but I didn't know what I 571 00:24:28,256 --> 00:24:28,480 was doing. 572 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,229 So it took a few times before that. 573 00:24:32,762 --> 00:24:35,029 Speaker 2: The interesting thing is this kind of thing that 574 00:24:35,049 --> 00:24:39,124 arises Because what you just described oh wait, yeah, 575 00:24:39,223 --> 00:24:40,087 community led growth. 576 00:24:40,539 --> 00:24:41,645 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just learned that word before we started 577 00:24:41,665 --> 00:24:41,846 recording. 578 00:24:43,382 --> 00:24:45,678 Speaker 2: Someone tells their mission, people are hooked on it 579 00:24:45,678 --> 00:24:46,480 and they want to build with it. 580 00:24:47,315 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 3: Because it's not for yourself, because it's bigger 581 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,585 than yourself, because they feel that too. 582 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:54,723 Speaker 2: And in the end because I'm also thinking about 583 00:24:54,743 --> 00:24:55,625 it from marketing. 584 00:24:55,625 --> 00:24:56,567 What is that actually? 585 00:24:56,567 --> 00:24:57,594 What does that bring people? 586 00:24:57,594 --> 00:24:59,642 That is simply a piece of meaning. 587 00:24:59,642 --> 00:25:01,842 At the moment, we were just talking about the second 588 00:25:01,882 --> 00:25:02,202 mountain. 589 00:25:02,202 --> 00:25:05,236 That means that is something that we all have in us, that we 590 00:25:05,256 --> 00:25:05,737 are looking for. 591 00:25:05,737 --> 00:25:07,480 But, okay, what does this life of dat we op zoek zijn naar? 592 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,663 Maar oké, wat betekent dit leven van mij? 593 00:25:09,663 --> 00:25:11,027 Nou, zeg maar op deze wereld. 594 00:25:11,047 --> 00:25:12,108 Speaker 3: Laat het in godsnaam zin hebben. 595 00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:16,183 Speaker 2: Ja, maar dat op deze manier. 596 00:25:16,183 --> 00:25:21,179 Dat bij Community Let Grow het haken mensen aan, omdat ze ook 597 00:25:21,199 --> 00:25:25,598 een stukje van die betekenis willen delen, zeg maar Ja, dat 598 00:25:25,659 --> 00:25:25,920 is het. 599 00:25:27,299 --> 00:25:29,259 Speaker 3: Ja, dat is, wat ik ook hartverwarmend vond, en nog 600 00:25:29,278 --> 00:25:29,641 steeds that's it. 601 00:25:29,641 --> 00:25:31,190 That's what I found heartwarming and still find. 602 00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:34,261 That's what happens, and it's also nice to see that arise, 603 00:25:34,914 --> 00:25:37,342 because actually as a company in the commercial world that 604 00:25:37,382 --> 00:25:38,766 happens in a certain sense as well. 605 00:25:38,766 --> 00:25:40,575 Only then, of course, there is much more importance. 606 00:25:40,575 --> 00:25:44,917 You can pay them and here people go that becomes a side 607 00:25:44,939 --> 00:25:48,145 business, that becomes a threshold. 608 00:25:51,278 --> 00:25:55,900 Speaker 2: You see that the focus shifts and it is true what 609 00:25:55,900 --> 00:26:01,938 you also stated when the refugee crisis burst, then I was 610 00:26:01,938 --> 00:26:06,585 in the middle of those problems with the company and that is 611 00:26:06,665 --> 00:26:08,298 also something I have seen that, in addition to the mission when 612 00:26:08,298 --> 00:26:09,527 a connection is, it is also important and that's also 613 00:26:09,547 --> 00:26:10,029 something I've seen. 614 00:26:10,029 --> 00:26:13,844 Besides the mission being there when there is a connection, it 615 00:26:13,924 --> 00:26:17,801 is also important that a participant must be in the 616 00:26:17,821 --> 00:26:19,874 opportunity To participate the moment. 617 00:26:19,874 --> 00:26:23,345 That must be possible. 618 00:26:23,345 --> 00:26:27,205 Just as you were talking about For some entrepreneurs that they 619 00:26:27,205 --> 00:26:30,964 contribute, that it is a big thing deal, and for some almost 620 00:26:30,984 --> 00:26:31,286 nothing. 621 00:26:31,286 --> 00:26:35,801 That also has to do with the fact that when it's a big deal, 622 00:26:35,821 --> 00:26:38,847 someone has to be very involved in your mission to do it. 623 00:26:38,847 --> 00:26:42,619 So there's a kind of relationship between how far 624 00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:45,826 someone is in the opportunity, how far it is relevant for 625 00:26:45,846 --> 00:26:49,480 someone at a certain moment, and how far someone is someone 626 00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:50,163 hooked on that mission. 627 00:26:50,403 --> 00:26:53,743 Speaker 3: By the way, what you just said, we always want to 628 00:26:53,765 --> 00:26:56,134 have a percentage of wildcards that you also have entrepreneurs 629 00:26:56,134 --> 00:26:59,900 who are 100% hooked on it, and also the role models can be the 630 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:01,020 group that they just have to join. 631 00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:06,238 But yes, so such a movement you can't build it yourself, it 632 00:27:06,357 --> 00:27:06,519 arises. 633 00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:07,540 You just said that and that is also. 634 00:27:12,377 --> 00:27:14,404 Speaker 2: I have also regularly had the question in recent 635 00:27:14,424 --> 00:27:19,347 years how can you put your community-led growth in? 636 00:27:19,347 --> 00:27:22,382 How can you make your community-led growth? 637 00:27:22,382 --> 00:27:25,981 Yes, that is not it. 638 00:27:25,981 --> 00:27:28,740 It is something that arises and you can facilitate it. 639 00:27:29,815 --> 00:27:31,005 Speaker 3: You can create a boundary. 640 00:27:31,005 --> 00:27:32,094 You can create a boundary. 641 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,792 Speaker 2: You can help people a bit by making certain things 642 00:27:36,813 --> 00:27:40,775 easier or by looking at how we can make it more relevant, but 643 00:27:41,155 --> 00:27:45,443 community-led growth itself is something that happens and where 644 00:27:45,443 --> 00:27:47,969 you have limited influence. 645 00:27:47,969 --> 00:27:52,439 And that is also when you are going to facilitate it, then you 646 00:27:52,439 --> 00:27:53,984 help people to participate in it in a certain way. 647 00:27:53,984 --> 00:27:57,663 If you don't do that but you do have a mission, they are 648 00:27:57,703 --> 00:27:58,265 looking for a way. 649 00:27:58,866 --> 00:28:00,711 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, that is nice. 650 00:28:00,711 --> 00:28:04,885 So in that respect, the role of founders is often overestimated 651 00:28:04,885 --> 00:28:04,885 . 652 00:28:04,885 --> 00:28:07,455 I am now invited here for the podcast, and there are, of 653 00:28:07,476 --> 00:28:10,324 course, a lot of other people who have contributed a lot to 654 00:28:10,365 --> 00:28:13,653 where we are now, because I have been clungling a lot publicly 655 00:28:14,276 --> 00:28:15,734 and people said I can't see this anymore. 656 00:28:15,734 --> 00:28:18,125 This can be smarter, this can be better. 657 00:28:19,642 --> 00:28:21,304 Speaker 2: Do you express that that is a prerequisite? 658 00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:26,965 Speaker 3: If you have no budget , that is difficult Then you 659 00:28:26,986 --> 00:28:27,393 have to do that. 660 00:28:27,393 --> 00:28:31,189 I am literally just, and then I came out of an own company 661 00:28:31,308 --> 00:28:32,333 where I had everything. 662 00:28:32,333 --> 00:28:34,734 If I had an idea, I could put it down like that. 663 00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:37,605 Speaker 2: Then people would do everything with it. 664 00:28:37,605 --> 00:28:38,366 Then it happened. 665 00:28:39,016 --> 00:28:40,803 Speaker 3: And now I just went to build your website. 666 00:28:40,803 --> 00:28:43,709 Now I had a kind of 1.0 website built and it didn't look good. 667 00:28:43,709 --> 00:28:48,538 And then I had someone at my network who said Geusie this, 668 00:28:48,558 --> 00:28:49,779 this has to be different. 669 00:28:49,859 --> 00:28:51,382 I know that, but you know that well, right. 670 00:28:51,382 --> 00:28:53,263 So that's how it came about. 671 00:28:53,263 --> 00:28:56,446 And the other thing that is such a prerequisite is, I think, 672 00:28:56,446 --> 00:28:58,548 that you dare to share what you are doing. 673 00:28:58,548 --> 00:28:59,670 No, absolutely so. 674 00:28:59,670 --> 00:29:05,836 I call that on the trumpet, not on the chest, and I thought 675 00:29:05,856 --> 00:29:06,959 that was quite exciting in the beginning. 676 00:29:06,959 --> 00:29:08,563 Because of my PR background, I was afraid that people might 677 00:29:08,583 --> 00:29:10,126 look at me like oh, he's going to be a bit. 678 00:29:10,146 --> 00:29:14,221 Speaker 2: Yes, on the one hand you have that and on the other 679 00:29:14,261 --> 00:29:15,065 hand, you also have that. 680 00:29:15,065 --> 00:29:17,564 I notice that some people find it exciting that someone is 681 00:29:17,584 --> 00:29:18,253 going to go with the idea. 682 00:29:19,056 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 3: Oh yes, I've never had that. 683 00:29:20,855 --> 00:29:21,397 Speaker 2: Yes, somewhere. 684 00:29:21,397 --> 00:29:22,944 I always think it's very strange when it comes to my 685 00:29:22,964 --> 00:29:26,579 mission, because you just want everyone to go with it. 686 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,605 Speaker 3: Yes, indeed yes, and that is also the whole idea of 687 00:29:29,625 --> 00:29:29,986 the present. 688 00:29:29,986 --> 00:29:31,327 This has also become a foundation. 689 00:29:31,327 --> 00:29:37,763 We talked about ownership and direction you want to give it. 690 00:29:37,763 --> 00:29:39,031 I wanted to get rid of the BV world. 691 00:29:39,031 --> 00:29:42,517 Where I came from, that it was automatically from me that 692 00:29:42,557 --> 00:29:44,644 everyone is going to look at me and that I could have an 693 00:29:44,663 --> 00:29:46,878 interest in it If there is a business model to hang on to.