One Shift At A Time: Hockey Lessons For Go To Market with Matthew Rubin

Welcome to the latest episode of Go-to-Market Coffee Talks, where your hosts, Marc Jacobs and Rob Kreiner, are digging into the full GTM pipeline. From sparking demand to closing the deal and everything in between, Marc and Rob serve up real talk, smart strategies, and the go-to-market pitfalls you'll want to dodge. In hockey, rarely does anyone win a game with one heroic play. You win it one shift at a time through systems, discipline, pressure, chemistry, and resilience. In today's episode, Mark and Rob team up with Matthew Rubin from Fovea to discuss what leaders can learn from the rink about forechecking, line chemistry, playoff mentality, and why many times systems beat superstars. Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Go-To-Market Coffee Talks. It's, it's 2026. It's, uh, it's crazy. It's a new year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year, Mark Jacobs. We have a special guest, as you just heard. Matthew Rubin is our special guest today, and we are going to be talking about something a little different here on the podcast that we haven't talked about before. But Mark, myself, and Matt are huge hockey fans, and we are going to do an episode today that basically takes hockey analogies and breakdowns and formulates them into go-to-market strategy, which is going to be a very interesting conversation. Mark, this was your idea, Mark. So what do you— how do you want to present this? I was just looking for a way to get hockey into the conversation. So we'll see if it works or not. But I am so excited. I mean, like, I'm sitting here in Rhode Island. It's 19 degrees right now. There's snow out the window. You got the fire in the living room behind me blazing. I'm like, this is hockey weather. So we have to find a way to talk about it. But I do think there's some good analogies in there. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, Matt, let's, let's drop the puck here. Matt Rubin, why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us what you do. Tell us any hockey memories that you have. Yeah, happy to do that. First, it's great to join you guys. Thanks for having me on the podcast. My name is Matthew Rubin. I am the director of business development for Fovea IP, where we provide solutions in screen search, watch trademark management for trademark professionals and IP professionals. And one of the differentiators that we have is we own our own data. So we have direct licenses with PTOs all around the world. And are able to get our data that way, get it into our feed faster, provide that information to our clients quicker, helping them with their workflow and streamline all of that. And if you want to talk a little bit about some hockey memories, I was 15 years old when the Rangers won the Stanley Cup in 1994. And I've got to say, that is near the top of the list of things that I really have fond memories of. I didn't have to live too long to enjoy the— to, for lack of a better term, enjoy the pain of growing up without a Stanley Cup for 54 years. So I got it early into my tenure, but it's been— are we approaching 30 years? Are we past 30? We're past 30 years again. So yeah, pain endures once again for me. I think I hate to say that. 31 years. Yeah, I think you and I might be on a trajectory for another 54. I was 11 when the Rangers won the Cup, so it's not looking any better this year. So we're in NHL season, which we're not going to spend too much time on. But, you know, you have a team in last place in the NHL this year that was winning a conference last year, and the Winnipeg Jets, uh, you got the Colorado Avalanche with only 2 regular, you know, regular time losses, which is unbelievable. Um, unbelievable. Yeah, but this is when, this is when hockey is going to start to get good, right guys? Like, it's getting towards the playoffs now. You have the Winter Classic today, which is the Rangers and the Panthers. And if you look on the NHL schedule, they, they call it a neutral site. I don't know how neutral Miami is. I, I, you know, I— to me, that's not neutral at all. But, um, we'll see who wins today. I don't think the Rangers have a shot, but their, their record as far as Winter Classics go is actually pretty good. So, um, we will see. You know, we've never— the Rangers have actually never lost an outdoor game. And on top of that, the season's only halfway over. We're 41 games in, 42 games in maybe. It's a lot that can happen. So I'm not optimistic, but, um, I'm gonna— I'm gonna— you just gotta get in, right? At this point, you just got to get in. That's it. I love— I love this blue shirt optimism. So unlike you two Rangers fans, I'm a Bruins fan, and we are, um, looking in at the playoffs. We're on the outside looking in, just like you guys. I'm not sure I feel quite that optimism that you do. I'm, uh, it's a rebuilding year, so, uh, but we, we had We just came off a big win over the Oilers, but I love the— I love this blue, this Broadway blue shirt optimism that, like— so I got— before we jump in, Rob, I have two things. All right, first of all, I want to give my best and worst memories on hockey. Can I do that? Absolutely, because they are absolutely tied in to, to, to the Bruins. So I'm going to start with the, the best, which was, um, you know, the Bruins winning their, their last Stanley Cup. All right, so, so that was June 15th, 2011. We were all working together in the same company. I was in San Francisco flying back to the East Coast. So Game 7, playing against the Vancouver Canucks. I'm in the San Francisco airport waiting for the red-eye back. Game starts at 5 o'clock Pacific time, right, because they're playing in Vancouver. So I get there early, park myself in a San Francisco airport bar and grill, mostly with San Jose Sharks. And I spend, you know, a great amount of the time just texting back and forth to friends that I grew up with. But this is it. Finally, after almost 40 years, Bruins are going to win. They win. And it's amazing. And I find myself— I have to go to a corner of that bar and grill restaurant because I started to cry, which was the only time that I think I've ever cried at an airport, despite having to wait for many flights and losing package and stuff, but I was, I was weeping with excitement. But that throws me back to my worst moment, which when I was 7, which was 1971, that year the Bruins— I had just become a Bruins fan the year before through my older brother, and the Bruins had won the Stanley Cup. And in the '70-'71 season, Bruins were just record breakers. They almost scored 400 team goals, which lasted forever, over 120 points. They were going to sweep. All I knew was the Bruins being great. And then they lost in the playoffs to, to a young Ken Dryden goaltender who didn't even play much in the regular season. And of course, that also ended with me crying, but I was 7, so it was there. So the Bruins and the NHL have made me cry. So that's why I'm glad we're able to do this podcast. But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see if I start crying at the end of this podcast. Anyhow, back to you. We got to go on now. Make, make Mark cry at the end of this podcast. So So to jump off, gentlemen, let's start with something that— so as Mark knows and Matt, you probably don't know, I coach my son's hockey team right now. So I am coaching a bunch of 12 and 13-year-olds. And what we're trying to do right now is build skills, right, for when they get older, if they continue to play hockey, once they get into actual teams where systems matter, they have the skills and the foundations to kind of figure that out, right? And systems and chemistry are things that I think right now we're seeing with our individual hockey teams chemistry can be off sometimes. And when chemistry is off, the team is off, right? You can have the best goaltender in the world, which I would argue that the New York Rangers have, and you still lose because the rest of the team, there's just no chemistry, right? And they're getting used to a new system with the new coach. So taking that and now import it into, you know, whether it's sales or commercial leadership, guys, how important are systems and chemistry for your teams when you're going to market? I mean, I'll take a little different angle on it, Rob, but I mean, I think as part of your system, you have to define roles. There has to be role clarity in the system. And a lot of times you see that same problem in business, right? In the go-to-market, right? So like everyone, you know, everyone can't be the scorer. No one can't be the playmaker. You see it all the time in large companies. You have sales and marketing and product and they all step over the top of each other. But you also see it in scale-up smaller companies. You know, it's often the founder or the CEO who steps on your playbooks and breaks your process because it's counterintuitive to maybe how they worked early on as a startup and built their business. So, you know, part of that chemistry, if you're introducing a new system, new process, there has to be real clarity around who's doing what. And that means sometimes some people have to do the unsexy things and other people get to do the sexy things that are there. It seems easy, but in my experience within startups, scale-ups, larger organizations, it's not. So that can be an issue when someone comes along like you and who introduces, you know, new structure, new process and tries to build chemistry about it. People don't want to play roles. Got a problem. I'll agree with that. It's, um, when it comes to go-to-market roles, if I can tie it to kind of, kind of similar to what you did, Mark, um, I would consider marketing kind of like the playmaker in the situation. They're creating a message, they're creating time, they're creating the space for sales to come in and handle the puck and eventually shoot it and hopefully score. They close the deal. Um, I would consider product customer service, customer success. They're kind of like the defensive pair. They're fielding a lot of questions from the prospects, from the customers. They keep the structure intact. Uh, they do a lot of the retention. Uh, leadership— you're the coach, you're not another winger. Don't try to score. And I think one, you know, one, one person that's always overlooked, even, even in, in, on, on hockey teams, the, the person you don't necessarily grow up to want to be is the grinder. But we've all seen grinders in our careers, and they are the ones that really keep things churning, right? It's to your point, Mark, not the sexy position, you know, getting down there into the boards, nitty-gritty. You're fighting, clawing for every inch of ice. Same thing when it comes to sort of sales, right? You're pounding pavement, pounding phones, you're out there, you're present, right? Grinders fuel momentum, right? I mean, how important are grinders, right? If, if you're thinking about a sales team, right? You see this person who's just grinding away. How important is that for motivation? It, it, it's super important, Rob. I mean, it is, it goes to that role. There are roles on any team at, you know, whether it's a hockey team or, or a, you know, a commercial team that are gonna define your success. Because you have this playbook and things don't work unless there's people, you know, not playing that role. So when you talk about grinders, when you talk about somebody who's, you know, in the corners, that is really important and it's important to recognize those people. It's important to incent those people. It's important for the whole team to understand the roles that they're playing there. You know, it's, you think it's funny, I was just looking at today, just to go sideways, I was looking at the composition of the Team USA for the Olympics that just kind of came out this morning. And, um, you know, Vincent Trocheck from your guys' favorite team, who, uh, you know, is— was named to, to the Team USA, which is— you might be like, why Vincent Trocheck? But because he's going to grind on that team. He's going to be a fourth line grinder. And that's, that's somebody in the composition of that team decided this guy is, is going to play this role that's in here, and he's probably willing to do that role. So you know, he was chosen over some other folks that, you know, certainly have higher skill levels. Yeah, you could make a similar parallel with Team Canada. I'd say Connor Bedard is one person that definitely earned qualifying for the Canadian hockey team. But the guy's a— the guy's a scorer. He's a bit of a playmaker. He's a bit of a scorer. But They're, they're top heavy with that and they need grinders over there. They need third line, they need fourth, fourth line guys. They need a goaltender. While as good as he is, they just don't have room in that system for him. They're better. They're better rounded. Similar with, like you said, Vincent Trocek being put on that team. They're better rounded by having a third line center, fourth line center that can go in, win faceoffs, get in the corners. Kind of put some sandpaper on the ice and you kind of need that in a go-to-market team. Yeah, no, you absolutely use, and I've seen it over my career where there are people that are, they're very talented, but they're being asked to play roles that they feel they can go above and beyond it and they don't do well in that role because they're not accepting that role. So there is, you know, you always want talent, but if the talent doesn't play the role, you're in, you've got issues, right? So, you know, you want the best grinder, but you're looking for somebody who grinds, you know, who's willing to grind in this situation. And if I can add just one other thing, I've played different roles in this system over my career. I've been in operations, I've been a market planner. Uh, I've been in product support. Right now I'm in sales, and I've had to learn these different roles, and I've had to watch people and observe them, see how they were acting in that role. And I've seen basically where I had to be quiet in certain places, and certain places where I had to come up front. All right, so if I'm working in operations and I come in, I'm not going to do, uh, a product pitch. I'm going to come in do some demonstration and talk about fulfillment from delivery to end. Yeah, all, all— it's a good point. Yeah, and chemistry goes beyond just your sales line, right? Goes throughout the organization, as Matt, you were talking about, right? It includes marketing, product, product support, finance, right? All these people have their roles to play. But when you're thinking about— so, so Matt, you mentioned market planning, right? And I think we can, you know, We can all kind of figure out times throughout our careers where there were situations where, you know, we were full-on forechecking, right? Two guys in the zone, pressure the puck, try to get open space, make a pass. And there's times where you're kind of, you're hanging back, right? You're playing a trap, you're waiting for them to come out of the zone, and you're trying not to, you're not trying to give up as much ice as you normally would. When you're thinking go-to-market, right, and your, your strategy of either pushing hard, forechecking into, let's say, new markets or new industries, or hanging back and saying, all right, let's just see what the competition does. What's some advice for people who may be sitting in this boat and saying, you know, I may want to push forward, I want to forecheck, but I don't know, you know, sort of where to start, or my competition's really hot right now, I'm just hanging back and kind of looking and trying to trap and see what I can do next? All right, well, there's different ways that you can kind of I would say you can force mistakes when you're forechecking. Don't be loud. Try being useful, I guess is a better term for it. You know, educate, provide insights. Don't run around yelling, buy from us, buy from us, buy from us. Maybe that's something our competition is doing. They're not listening. They're not asking questions. That's going to make them look slow. That's gonna wear, that's where you can grind them down. Just sit there, listen to your customers. What are their pain points? This is kind of where I kind of get into the corners. And at that point, it's kind of just moving the puck around, moving it around the boards, kind of if I can make an analogy that way. Try to own the narrative early a little bit. Let the buyer define the problem without you. If you do, I'm sorry, if you let the buyer to find the problem without you, you're kind of already defending. You want to let forechecking kind of shape the market. Let them talk about the problem and let my solution kind of feel inevitable to them. I'm glad we didn't talk about neutral zone trap. You know, I'm glad we went full forechecking because I think it's important in business and I like that style of hockey. But Matt, you're totally on. You know, there's some studies recently that show that buyers buy, or at least they define who their finalists are long before the buying process starts. Through their own research, they have defined who's going to win the bid before the bid goes out, you know, the top couple candidates. So if that's the case, you have to be there early. You have to be there before the other team, like forechecking. You have to define the angles. You have to shape the way you know, the approach out of that zone is going to happen. So, you know, those insights, those educational insights that you talked about, the brand awareness type of insights that, that you deal with, you know, educational stuff, all that stuff, nurture sequences that, that will, you know, teach them something that is of value so you can be recognized. And I think that's really important. You know what I mean? That you have to— if you wait until they're out of the zone and you meet them past that, you're lost. You— studies are showing more and more that that's the way the modern business world works. So got to be there early. Yeah. Show up before the RFP is there, before there's any sort of budget. Be there. Yeah. Show up before, you know, I'm not making a decision in 2026. We'll work really hard in 2026 to shape when they do make a decision in 2027. And this reminds me of something I tell my kids all the time, right? The keep your legs moving, right? Once you stop moving in hockey, you're dead. I mean, there's no coming back. I mean, if you're a really, really, really good skater, you may be able to catch up. But I tell them all the time, I don't care if you're standing at the blue line and covering a defenseman, just keep your legs moving. Keep skating. Just keep moving. As long as you have momentum, you can catch up faster if somebody were to get by you, and it also helps you break out faster. So I think what you guys are talking about relates to that is just keep your legs moving, right? Whatever you're doing, just keep, keep, keep yourself front and center in the market. So this way you don't have to come from behind as far as momentum goes. You have some momentum going into whatever happens next with the business. So key takeaway, everybody, keep your legs moving. So, so, so guys, let's talk about some— let's head to the penalty box. All right, so you're each getting 5 minutes for fighting. I know it's kind of crazy, but give me— let's talk about situations where you kind of— I don't want to say you failed, right, because there's always lessons in failure, but what's some, some examples throughout your careers of go-to-market situations where you got back to the bench and you were like, And that play didn't go so well. We got to redo that. Mark, I'm going to put you on the spot. You go first. It's a good question. I think, you know, one of the— and this comes to mind, you know, you know, recently because it's happened more than once in my career. You know, one of the biggest go-to-market mistakes I've learned from was expecting too much from partnership-led demand without any historical proof. You know, I bought into this idea that signing a strategic partnership or a strategic reseller, you know, especially if that reseller partner was bigger and they had big sales and marketing machine would automatically create pipeline. In reality, partnerships don't magically work that way. You know, they work and sometimes they can be spectacular. But often it's not quick and it's not universal. So, you know, without clear evidence that the partner has successfully sold something like yours before, you know, many partnerships end up being just, you know, nice logos, not revenue generation. Matt, you wanna go next? Sure. It's pretty simple to me. I've gone back to the bench a few times kind of scratching my head, but one time that sticks out more than any, it's just, it's about proper doing proper discovery with your prospects, understanding what, not just what their pain points are, but how their organization works. If you don't know how their organization works, you don't know if there's prior relationships that are important, possibly with other vendors that are not necessarily your competitors, but they're complementers. And if you come in with a product that interferes with that relationship, You are now interfering with a complementer, and that can make things messy. It puts you in a bad space, and kind of, you don't get to build a relationship from then on out. That's something that could be avoided right up front. You do proper discovery. You ask the right questions. You don't have to waste the time investing money, resources, effort into a product or a service that is, is just not gonna sell to your, to your customers, to your prospects. Yeah, those are, those are all great points. And I gave myself the, the task of not trying to follow up both of those. But I would say that, that my, mine is focus. I, I, I've run into so many situations throughout almost every organization that I've worked in where focus at some point in time becomes an issue, right? And sometimes organizations deal with it quickly and they kind of refocus and sometimes they don't and they have grand ideas to launch new products and do all this stuff. And then, you know, it's kind of like, you know, Coach tells you, all right, here you go, here's the plan. You go out, you do your shift, you come back, and then the coach is like, all right, no, now we're gonna do this. You go out, you do your shift, you come back and the coach is like, no, no, no, no, now we're going to do this. And there's just this constant change in focus and you can't get any momentum going and people are scrambled as far as just not knowing where are we going? Why, why aren't we all skating in the right direction at the same time? And it leads to product failure and it leads to go-to-market chaos and it leads to teams just shutting down. I mean, I've seen, I've seen teams just say, I, I don't know what to do anymore, so I'm not going to do anything. And I think all of us can kind of relate to the focus issue. Yes, excellent point. Focus is important. Okay, takeaway number 2, everybody. Focus is important. Keep your legs moving and focus. 2, 2 clear takeaways. So let's talk a little bit about, let's say we're in a shootout. Right? You gotta close strong. You need one goal left to win the shootout. I think we've talked about two sort of takeaways right now, but Mark, you're at center ice, you're about to skate down. What's the one piece of advice you can give to anyone right now who's looking at the new year, ready to kind of figure out their sales strategy, go-to-market strategy? What's the key takeaway for you, for everyone? Pick your lane, choose your key target profile and what your ideal client profile is, what your ideal use case is, and learn to win consistently on that. Do not get trapped into the let's be opportunistically looking to do everything everywhere. All right, Matt. Mark shot and he missed, unfortunately. Great takeaway, Mark, but you missed. Matt, it's up to you. Did I hit the post? You hit the post. You were like Gordon Bombay, right? 3 posts. You went ding, ding, ding and went out. Didn't go in. Matt, what's your key takeaway? Well, keep an open mind. Every goaltender kind of plays a different style and you want to keep an open mind before you hit the— actually, before you hit the ice, do some research, do a lot of research. Are they a butterfly style goaltender? Are they a standup goaltender? You know, you can make all sorts of parallels between this and the type of businesses that you're selling to, that you're working with. And that is going to determine how you take your shot. It's going to determine how you use the matrix in your company. When do you bring product in? When do you bring customer success in? Have that kind of uniform all set and then work your strategy. Remember, at that point, it's a shootout. There's no defense. You have the opportunity to make your plan and go against one person. That's, yeah, that's a great call. I think knowing what the goal— knowing the style of the goaltender, plays a lot into this. And I think, you know, another thing that is coming more and more into play in the NHL, I mean, but especially in business, is data. Look at the data, right? There's data now about everything in the NHL, right? How not, not just what a goalie's save percentage is, but how many pucks do they give up blocker side at home when it's raining outside and less than 20 degrees? I mean, it's incredible how, how much you can decipher data. And I think To both Mark and Matt's points, you know, when you're out there and you're getting ready to win the game, hit the shootout, you know, go to market, make sure you have your data and you know what you can do to Matt's point for discovery. And then to Mark's point, what you can do once you're in front of the prospect so that you already have some nuggets of information to use. Rob, if I can add one other thing, because I think you made a great point there. I've been in the legal services industry for about 2 decades. When I started, I mean, the metrics Back then, you can talk about it being hearsay. You can talk about it coming from just face-to-face conversation, a little bit of background that you can get electronically. Now, with the push of a button, you can get micro analytics across the board about anything. I mean, if you ever look at a Bloomberg terminal, for example, and what those can do, the type of things you can look up on there, it's kind of wild. It's the same thing in hockey. Where you have these, you know, everything from these micro analytics where something like a plus-minus statistic used to be telling if you're a good defensive player, you're a good offensive player, you're a bad defensive player, you're on the ice for a lot of goals against or a lot of goals for. That is not a relevant statistic anymore, at least not as relevant, because they're finding out all of these other things now, whether it's, you know, up-close danger chances and things like that. The game has changed because how we're reading the room is changing. It's a great point. And it'll continue to change, right? Especially I think this year. I mean, last year AI was all over the place. There's still a kind of, you know, wild and messy, right? And it's just, you know, I got really fed up with it on LinkedIn. I mean, every other post is about AI and that's not going to go away. I understand that. But I think this year you're going to see a little bit more, well, more well-defined business cases for what AI can actually do. I mean, aside from just running data, to your point, Matt, I think you're going to start to see it actually come in people are gonna start talking about it in a more useful way than just, you know, sort of the secondary system that it's been now. So that will have a huge impact on the rest of the year for sure. And I, I think that just buys into, it contributes to the point about doing proper discovery, playing against your competitors. Kind of just saying you have an AI solution now is kind of throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. And not changing your message based on the industry need. Something a little more targeted. Wait for the customer to say, you know, what they're using AI for or how AI is failing them or helping them succeed and then responding with its proper use case. The quality of the insight and the usability of the insight is still important. You know, a lot of AI insight is just they got it faster. Or they got it cheaper, but it's always been out there and, or they got stuff and it's not really tied into anything that's useful. So it, it really comes down to, can you put that data in play and can you make use of it to, to make a difference? Well, everybody, I, I, this, this, this was a fun episode, Mark. Thank you so much for, for kind of coming up. Well, let, let, before we run, I have to go around the horn cuz we have listeners to, you know, to, to Coffee Talk all around. Country and they're hockey fans. So, you know, for our, our place, our listeners in different places, let me just throw a few teams out that are having decent years and you tell me at the end of the year if you think they're going to make the playoffs or not. Okay, well, I was actually going to say I wanted you guys to give me your, your Stanley Cup predictions, what two teams are going to make it. All right, we'll go there, we'll go there afterwards. Well, let's go with this. I'm gonna toss this out to you guys. Do you see the Red Wings are looking good this year for our listeners in Detroit? Do you think they're making the playoffs? I think they're— I'm gonna say yes. Yeah, what do you guys think? They make the playoffs for sure. I think they definitely make the playoffs. Um, okay, let's, let's move a little closer to you guys. Islanders are in the mix. Do you think the Isles are going to be there at the end? Um, their biggest problem is consistency. I mean, they just cannot play consistently. So if they can keep with consistency, yes, I think they can make it, but they haven't proven that yet. They're in the mushy middle. It's— I, uh, it's a, it's a toss-up. I, I can't make a call on it. It's just, they're right there smack in the middle. But Rob's right, it's consistency. And then my last one is that one of our most fervent fan bases would be in the Philadelphia metro area. So, you know, the, the resurgent Ricky Tocchet-led Philadelphia Flyers are in the mix. Can you see them pull off this this miracle and make it into the playoffs this year? Of course, because Tortorella's gone, so 100% they're gonna make the playoffs. I'm just gonna give a simple answer: no. Spoken like a true Ranger fan. They, they're, they're, they're missing some juice, they're missing some goaltending. Something about them that I, I see a second half fall off. That was it. So Matt, since you've got the floor here, do you want to take your Stanley Cup finalist picks? Sure. It's the Avalanche and the Canadiens. Oh, that's who wins. The Colorado wins. Interesting. Interesting. That is an interesting— I too am believing the Avalanche come out of the West. It's kind of hard to vote against them right now since they're flying, but I see them playing against the Carolina Hurricanes. Ah, the Hurricanes. Oh my God. Yeah, I can see that. I get to see both those teams actually making it. I, I too am picking Colorado, but I'm going Tampa Bay for, for, for the Stanley Cup Final. They're, they've been on a roll lately and I think that momentum's gonna continue. So I think Colorado wins. I don't think anyone's stopping Colorado this year, but I think Tampa Bay makes it to the final. Yeah, that's what I said about the Bruins a couple years ago. So Matt, what you have to do now is come back in the spring once the playoff situation starts to unfold, and we will do a recap episode and see how our picks came out. And we will also, you know, obviously talk some more go-to-market, but hockey first. Thank you, Matt Rubin, for joining us from Favia. Thank you again for having us. Absolutely. Hope all of you enjoyed this episode. As Mark said, Let us know if you're a hockey fan. What's your team? How are they doing? Do you think they're going to make the playoffs? What do you think of our predictions? Are we way off or are we on point? And then obviously, if you need any go-to-market help, Mark Jacobs is here for you. I myself am here for you. If you're in the trademark field and you need some trademark help, reach out to Matt Rubin. He is more than happy to help you with that. But I hope all of you have a great 2026 or start to 2026. And we will catch you on the next episode.