The Signals Driving Today's Social Media Performance

Hi everybody, welcome to the Brandeis podcast series Go Beyond, where we take a look at what's shaping marketing today and in the future. I'm your host, Brian McHale. I want to thank you for joining us today. And today our topic is social media, but not just anything about social media. It's why does social media seem like it's getting harder? And we're going to dive into that and some different— on some different topics that roll up to that, things like algorithms and different frequencies of posting and all different kinds of things. So I think you'll really enjoy what our guests have to say today. And speaking of guests, I want to introduce and thank the two ladies here who are joining me. Danielle Herrillo, who is Vice President of Digital Media at Brandeis. And Danielle has been doing digital media for many, many years on both the agency side as well as on the platform side. So she brings a very unique unique perspective. And today she's going to be really focusing more on the paid side of social media. And then we have the other side of social media. So Mo Ran is joining us, and Mo is a social media specialist at Brandeis. Thanks for joining us, Mo. Mo has been working in social media for much of her career. Yes. And she has worked in the restaurant space, the retail space. So a lot of great expertise that she's bringing to this podcast. And she's gonna be focused more on the organic side of things. So thank you ladies for joining. Thank you. Welcome, and let's dig into social media and maybe why it's not working as well as it had been or why it's harder. And so I'll start with a question for you, Danielle. It seems like most brands are just doing more and more and more social media. So it's certainly not going away. It's just becoming a bigger part of everybody's marketing mix. But what still looks smart in paid social today that maybe isn't really delivering the results that it used to? Yeah, this is a great question. And for the paid side, really what we're seeing is that targeting is not as important as it was even a year ago. And that feels really, really counterintuitive to say, because when you think paid media, you think, okay, targeting, who can I hit? How can I hit them? Um, how do you optimize to the best user experience? But very recently, even within the last 6 months to a year, the algorithms behind a lot of these social media platforms have completely changed and It's, it's rendering audience targeting not null and void, but it's not nearly as significant a part of a strategy as it used to be. And because this changed so quickly, I think a lot of brands and marketers are really struggling to wrap their strategy, their holistic strategy around the fact that this is not such a cornerstone part of what we're doing in the social space at all anymore. So it's taken some shifting around of ideas. Right, no, good points. And on the organic side, Mo, are there signals or things that you're seeing out there that maybe are showing you that social isn't quite as effective as it has been? Yeah, I mean, from going off of Danielle's point about the algorithm changing, we've went from a chronological order algorithm that was based on likes and follower count to now shifting your algorithm to, um, feeding in this system that's built within these platforms where the platform is deciding whether or not your content is worth sharing to a broader audience. So instead of looking at those vanity metrics of likes and follower count, you are more so focusing on those deeper level of engagements like your comments, your shares, your saves, and the content that you're putting out, if it's resonating and it's having the high amount of deeper engagements, then it's going to push you out a little bit more, more broader than what it used to. Yeah, no, that makes sense. And, and I— and, and in my question, I sort of misspoke. I, I said social not being as effective. I think social's still as effective. What, what I really meant to say was that, that it's, it's not as effective if you're still doing it kind of the old way. And, and you both really kind of already addressed that, that change is, change is here, change is happening, and you do need to be thinking about, um, things differently. So, you know, when typically when social activity, uh, well, when somebody's new, when a brand's new into social, oftentimes you might see them start to optimize, if they really are optimizing, optimize around like output. They just, you know, we, we gotta post a lot, we've got to be out there, we've got to be out there. Um, but they're not optimizing for maybe impact. Anybody have any thoughts on that? Would you agree with that statement? Yeah, I mean, for sure. I— when a lot of brands, when they do start off, it is putting out content after content after content. And putting out a big amount of content is great as But you want to be able to make sure your content is building that community, having that engagement, and really resonating with the audience that you're trying to build. Otherwise, this content that you're putting out is making people aware, but it's not really connecting anyone. And then the purpose of your content doesn't really have as great a value as it can. Yeah, yeah, it's that quality over quantity type of discussion that we have a lot in marketing, right? Are we putting out the right things, hitting the algorithm the correct way? Are we building our creative such that it's more engaging for that audience? Yeah, and so in social, output isn't a strategy, impact is. Correct. Correct. Well, you both have mentioned already numerous times that dreaded word algorithm. And so let's kind of move to that because while we can talk about output and impact and frequency and paid and organic, there's something lying underneath all of it. And it is the algorithms that we don't control. We often don't have a lot of visibility into even what's going on there or when things are changing. So Mo, there's a term that I always hear, the algorithm is the audience. What's that, what's that mean? Explain that a little bit for our viewers. So what that means is that you are no longer creating content for that lived-in audience that you already have. So now you're creating content for people that are wanting to connect with your brand or wanting answers. And the actual algorithm is that you are building content that feeds the algorithm first, and then you are trying to connect. So there's a little bit of a switch of, um, audience first and then content. So right now you are really trying to tap into what does the algorithm want, and that's content that is going to drive shares, that's going to drive reach. And then how do you make your content come off that way. So that's a really big part of that step is that you are feeding the algorithm first before you're feeding even a true audience. So Danielle, on your side of the equation with paid, when dollars start to enter this equation, how does that show up with the algorithm? What do you have to think about? Yeah, it's like I said, it's very different from what it was even just 6, months or a year ago, but really, um, to Mo's point, the content behind the campaign is key. Is that content feeding the beast, right? The algorithm, the algorithm or the beast. Is it resonating with your audience? Um, are you hitting the, um, the creative differences that the algorithm wants to see? Are you resonating really first with that organic audience with your creative to the point that you can then kind of test that and scale that with a paid side as well. Um, one big thing too that we're seeing within the algorithm is the authenticity piece, especially in the paid perspective. Um, paid ads are no longer a click here to buy this. It's, it's meeting the consumer where they are with what they want. Um, and ensuring that you're coming across as a brand authentic because consumers are not about anything that's inauthentic anymore. You mentioned something then, y'all. I'd be interested just to kind of get either of you or both of your takes on this. But when you were talking about kind of how your approach, a brand getting that organic piece kind of up and going and then moving to paid, is that how you all think about it? Or is that typically how we work organic into paid if somebody hasn't been in it? For a while, or do you ever go the other way? Sure. I think I can start if you don't mind. Yeah. Um, the one thing that is really important is understanding your brand, right? So it's gonna be a little bit different for each brand. Um, oftentimes we do see major success in leaning into the organic first, seeing what's resonating with that audience. Um, and then being able to put paid dollars behind ideas or strategies or content pieces that we're seeing perform very well with the organic audience. However, for some brands that might not make sense. Sometimes you do kind of have to lean into the paid first versus the organic piece. And I know that's not like a cut and dry answer, but it truly is. Every brand's needs are different. Every promotion's needs are different too. It depends on, you know, what are the KPIs that we're going to be looking for and what outcome are we trying to either test for or build towards with these campaigns that we're putting together. Yeah. And then just going off of that too, the, from an organic standpoint, a lot of times when people are following brands or just casually scrolling through their feeds, the content that's gonna resonate with them, even if it is an ad, are the ones that don't feel like it. Yeah. So these social platforms users don't want people to be promoting things all the time. So anything that comes off as authentic and genuine. Yeah. Or a really great review of a product is going to intrigue them and be of more interest than something that is explicit and says buy this because this is great. Yeah. Right. It goes back to the idea of social is no social from a paid perspective really. And it, I guess this even applies to organic as well. It's like it's not disruptive. The advertising or the messaging cannot be disruptive. It has to flow really organically, whether it's a paid or an organic post, it has to flow organically within the platform. And a lot of times the hard part is that every platform's algorithm performs a little bit differently, right? So we have to adjust and optimize things to the native platform that we're playing in. Right. With the algorithms, almost, I guess, constantly being tweaked. Yeah, right. Are there, Mo, from an organic standpoint, are there types of engagement or retention tactics that seem to matter most right now? Yeah, so a lot of the metrics or the KPIs that we are looking for for a successful organic post are the deeper engagements of your comments, your shares, your saves, Your saves essentially tell you that this comment, this content was worth someone essentially putting it on the backside for them to go back and reference to. And your saves is showing that this content resonated so well that they want to share with other people. So anything that kind of helps with that community, the conversation is kind of what the algorithm is looking for now because it's all about keeping the conversation going. Yeah, no, good. So Danielle, you mentioned earlier, you used the word authentic or authenticity. The next big thing that has been impacting social is AI. It's everywhere in social to the point that personally, I'm not on social channels as much as I used to be because frankly, I don't know what I'm looking at. Yeah. And as anybody who's talk to me or watch this podcast, I, I, there's not a bigger fan of AI than me. Yeah. But it is something that we have to deal with as social media professionals. Mm-hmm. So Danielle, you know, on a, from a paid, paid perspective, you can, brands can get into overly automating or using too much AI-generated content. How do you see that, or does it, does it reveal itself in paid social performance if a brand starts to go down that path? Absolutely. What we're seeing really from a high level, from a high level for all of our clients really, if AI is leaned into from a creative perspective, it is not performing as well. And That comes down to, for me, the fact that our audiences know our brand. They know whether something is aligned or misaligned with who that brand is at its core. And for a lot of the brands that we work with, if something is overtly AI, it's not— it's gonna fall flat because it doesn't feel authentic to who the brand is. It, it's misaligned with everything else that's on that content feed, right? So if brands are leaning very heavily into AI-created content or generated content and it doesn't line up with who they are, oh man, that inauthenticity is clocked really quickly within paid social because think about how much content we are consuming on social in general. If something feels off, it's an immediate flag. Yeah. And the other, you know, we've mentioned authenticity. I think trust is obviously a big thing. And so organically, Mo, are there things that you're seeing from an organic standpoint in the organic creative content that are sure trust breakers from an AI-generated piece of content? Yeah, I mean, a lot of times too, so when you're looking at organic content, you are looking for things that aren't a little bit as polished as they can be and you're looking for kind of that authentic post. So when brands are cranking out potentially AI-generated content, these online users are active and online all the time that they are able to tell the difference so quick. Even if it's not AI-generated and it's a little bit overly polished, that still starts to raise some eyebrows. And a lot of times too, when you are looking at copy, like Danielle said, they know your brand, they know the brand voice, and there's a reason why they follow you on social media. So when you have copy that is overly produced and there's no human voice or brand voice behind it, they're going to immediately think, why am I following them? There's no connection here. Um, and it doesn't help build your community. And I think that's a really big thing with trust and being authentic in the organic space because the use of AI can be helpful as long as you're doing in a way that the audience is a little bit aware of, but you're not trying to plant yourself as this is AI, but I'm going to try and claim it as an organic original content. So it's transparency. I mean, being transparent. If you're going to use it, use it, and that's fine, but let people know you're using it. And I think there are some large brands that have been very transparent and done some crazy wacky things using AI that have been funny and fun. But they were clearly AI because they said they were, and that's fine. And I didn't see any backlash for those brands. They weren't trying to be something that they aren't, which was good. So as I mentioned, obviously big AI defender. So I have to come back to, there have to be ways that AI are helping your teams be smarter, better at what you're doing. Any examples there? —how you've been using AI or could use AI, even if you're not using it? Yeah, from the paid side, AI is heavily integrated into a lot of the systems that we're using to plan campaigns, budget things out properly, forecast. So from a native platform perspective, it's really helpful when you're trying to just ideate on, hey, do we think this campaign running for this amount of days or this budget would be successful? So from a paid side, we use it more as a tool, whether it's natively within the platform or to help with some of the data analysis. But it's never, it's just that it's a tool for us. Yeah. And AI in general, I mean, for you, for the paid side, just whether it's paid social, programmatic, any, any sort of, of paid digital media, we've been using various forms of AI and machine learning for 15+ years. And so it's a natural tool that can, that can help. Now it's, but sometimes it's now a bad word, dirty word. Yeah. And it's got our big rebrand lately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So how about you, Mo? Ways that you're on the organic side that you all are using AI to be better? Yeah, for an organic side, a lot of times we are using AI to kind of help jumpstart our ideation. And then once we get those ideas, it is the social media marketer's job to understand the brand that you're representing and the brand voice and being able to embed that really, really well. So that way you are using these ideas, but using it in a way that you know your audience is going to resonate with and want to see more of. So that's a really big part of how we kind of use it to help streamline just our brainstorming process. Yeah, no, that's great. And just kind of going back to where we started in this segment before we move on, what I'm definitely hearing all of us say is, For social media, authenticity is the differentiator. I mean, you have to be authentic, whether it's from a paid or from an organic standpoint, because that'll build trust and that'll keep people coming back, hopefully. All right, so the next thing I want to jump into is really the whole area of social helping in the discovery of brands and discovery of information. I pulled some stats that I wanted to share with you because we talk about social as it relates to discovery and search quite a bit around our shop, whether it's related to GEO or whatever. But a couple, a couple studies that I was looking at, I'll just read over them here for all of us, that, you know, multiple studies now show that younger consumers especially using social platforms for search first before they go anywhere else. And that's especially for things like local discovery or product research, lifestyle questions. And in some studies I was looking at, in some cases Instagram and TikTok now outrank Google. Um, and some numbers: 41% of Gen Z worldwide say that they turn to social first for searching for info. 41%, big, big percentage. 46% of Gen Zers say they prefer social as first option. Uh, that's compared to like 35% of Millennials, 20% of Gen Xers. So, um, regardless of your age, it's becoming a bigger and bigger percent of, of the way that people are searching, but it also has to be impacting what we're doing from a marketing standpoint on social. So Mo, from your perspective, how are social platforms kind of acting as search engines? Yeah, so a lot of times now our audiences are looking to social media to answer a problem, provide a solution, give value to something. And a lot of times for a brand, knowing that, you kind of have to shift your content a little bit to be like, okay, if people are looking for answers, how can we place our brand or place our product in a way that's going to answer these questions that the viewer may or may not have? So a lot of that is taking a look at those text overlays that you're putting on your video or naturally embedding those SEO-like keywords into your copy. Because a lot of times these— the content that's going to perform well for search is going to be what's being recycled over and over again for these, um, AI search recommendations or anything like that. So this content is really great for brands because if you position it right, there's no shelf life for your content because you're always going to appear. So that's really awesome. And if you can take control of that, you can do so much with your content. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Is this changing the way you think about maybe boosting posts or just paid distribution in general? Yeah, absolutely. I think at the core it comes down to because search is so prevalent on social now, like we've been talking about, it's more— we've shifted from a here's my product to a here's why my product is going to solve your problems, individual user. And again, this is a really big point where if we see something is performing extremely well in organic, let's put some money behind it and boost it and test it at scale from a paid side. Right. And again, it's less about breaking through or disrupting that user's search, and more of a utilizing the algorithm and being able to get in at those key moments of, oh, hey, I was just searching for that. This is the perfect solution for me. That what's in it for me, for the end consumer. The content is definitely shifting from focusing on viral moments and shifting towards what's useful, what is useful content I can put out there. And so does that factor into how you structure your content when you're thinking about content that you're putting out? Do you have the search piece in, in your brain? Yeah, a lot of times when we are crafting content, it is thinking, okay, if we have this LTO or this offering, what are questions that people are going to have about it? What are they more prone to ask? How do we show that in a video and strategically embed that into our caption so it shows up and there's not gonna be that many questions. However, everyone that is online is very curious. So I'm sure questions are always gonna pop up, but having that mindset really helps with making a wave in what you're trying to produce. Yeah, no. It's like getting ahead of it. Right. Mm-hmm, yeah. Danielle, going back to boosting for a second, a category that, or industry that we work in healthcare. Some things that I've seen happen or us do or other competitors do, maybe as an example, is for some of their smaller, maybe less well-funded service lines, they use boosting of posts. And talk a little bit about that. I know that's something we've done and probably not something we would done as much of if social hadn't become what it is today as it relates to search and discovery. Yeah, absolutely. It's— social boosting is really great for a lot of these smaller brands or smaller business lines or smaller product launches, right? Because you are able to really give amplified love to those smaller brands or those smaller business lines, in that paid social space. So instead of having to utilize a full photo shoot or a full strategy, um, doc behind, you know, your creative team, you're, you're able to take what's been working organically and, and give that line some paid dollars and some paid amplification. So it's, it's a really popular, um, strategy that we utilize quite often when we're seeing success in the, organic space, or we just know that, hey, these specific business lines or service lines or colleges or whatever they are need extra help but don't have those larger budgets. So it's like a two-for-one, really. It makes sense. And you're— so we might as well go there. You're sort of leaning in a little bit to our next topic, which is really test and learn, you know, and within the social space. And We're big believers at Brandy and Son, test and learn. We try to include that in really any recommendation, I think, or plan that we put out there. So Danielle, let's help anybody listening to kind of think this through a little bit. So from a paid social standpoint, if you're gonna test and learn, you hear in paid social, you can test different copy, different visual, different, What are the things that you should think about or some examples that people should be thinking about to make sure that what they're testing is meaningful or that the differences are meaningful if they're going to go in and try to do a test? So it's easy to hear, um, we can test anything and immediately want to test everything. And really that's not a good strategy to lean into. We have to be very purposeful with what we're looking at testing and truly isolate the variables that we're testing, right? So whether it's A/B testing on the creative, uh, image that's showing or the copy or, um, or even like sometimes the time of day targeting really matters too. So being purposeful with what you are trying to test and then truly looking in black and white at the engagement metrics behind those tests. Oftentimes we talk about how we don't want to look at things in a silo, but when you're testing, you have to. You have to remove as many variables as you can and test for one thing really at a time. Yeah. On the organic side, Mo, you're often watching trends closely. Sometimes you might be chasing trends, but as you think about kind of testing and learning and what's going to work or not work, How do you do that organically without finding yourself in a situation where you are chasing trends? Yeah, I mean, I feel like we see a lot of brands think that testing means jumping on the newest trend that's popping up in the week. And yes, that can give you short, small spikes, but that's not really doing anything for your original owned content for your brand. So when we want to successfully test our content, what we should be looking at are the different hooks, the different editing formats, um, the storytelling, the way we're storytelling in our content. And from there, looking at those, the data and the analytics and seeing, okay, this tone, this topic, or whatever it is, is allowing people to engage on a deeper level. And that should be what's signaling you to maybe this is something we should apply more of. And from there, you can kind of start having that momentum of understanding what your audience wants and how you can have a better baseline of what is good content outside of these trend spikes. So you're each developing insights in kind of your own way. How do you make sure that those insights aren't living in a silo and that they are being shared back and forth between organic and paid the organic and paid side of social. Mm-hmm. That's an extremely important part of what we do holistically as social, like as the social team, right? Traditionally, there were breaks between those two teams and they were looked at completely different or even funded completely separately and depending on how the businesses are set up. But now we act as one team. We have to have the insights flowing back and forth between organic and paid teams. Because everything is so heavily creative-led. Yeah. And if our teams aren't talking, we are missing tons of opportunities. You know, you were just talking about how we're looking at what's performing well from an organic perspective. And those are the key indicators that like raise our flags and say, okay, from a paid perspective, let's try boosting this because it works. It works with our organic audience, but can we reproduce that at scale? Right. Can we reproduce that in a bigger way? And if we can, then we know we've got a good content strategy that performs well for the brand, both organically and paid. Yeah. And then going off of that too, what we mentioned earlier about the paid and organic social, really looking for that authenticity. Mm-hmm. And that less polished content, knowing that we have to work together. Yeah. In a really tight-knit way in order to make our content worked to the best of its ability. One, so kind of bringing it full circle to where we started today, you know, that the— we started talking about some brands thinking volume, heavy frequent, you know, and really what, you know, what I'm hearing you all talk about here is, is that it's learning and impact beat all of that hands down. And that's what you all are focused on. Every day is trying to figure out sometimes how to trick the algorithm. Yeah. Or maybe not. Yeah. Or do some other things that are gonna be more impact-based versus just let's just keep you out there on a regular basis. 'Cause there are a lot of ways to do that even outside social. Yeah. Right. So one thing we didn't really talk about, and it's something I run into a lot when people will approach our business and,, and ask maybe, uh, you know, I have a, have an idea that they might want to do some additional social for their business or that kind of thing. I often get people saying, you know, well, I don't have a lot of money, so social is probably where I'm gonna go. And, and, um, and I feel like that does the channel a disservice just in general, because yes, social paid can be less expensive than some other types of paid digital. So the thinking isn't completely flawed, but it also requires a high level of strategy, a good amount of content. Yeah. So how do you all think about that? I'm sure you get asked that, or I mean, how do you think about that? It's, you know, social isn't, isn't the cheap way to go. Yeah. It's a different way to go. It's a certain channel. But talk a little bit about that because it sounds like today, from what everything you said, there's a lot behind any social campaign. It makes me laugh because a lot of times everyone just thinks that social is capturing photos or taking videos, and it's so much more than that. A lot of times for brands, your organic social content can essentially make or break your brand in the way of whether or not a consumer wants to associate themselves with you. So again, it's going back to how can we build this community, a loyal community for Social, and have them wanting to come back, wanting to try our products, being interested in anything we have to say. So that alone is going to help lift up your brand. So it's definitely not something that should be overlooked because it is more than just photos and videos. It's building a very, very authentic and genuine community that's going to be there for you all the time. And it's strategic. Yeah, it's, it, you have to have a good strategy because it's pretty easy to get carried away just in terms of just creating imagery, creating content. If you don't have a strategy, you can do a lot of things all day long on your iPhone, but it may not be getting you anywhere close to where that brand needs to go. Yeah. And very similar from the paid side too is, you know, if we're looking at CPMs, yes, paid social can be cheaper depending on what platform you're in. But when you think about what piece that's playing in your overall marketing strategy and how the paid social needs to connect to everything on a way deeper level, it becomes so much bigger than just the CPMs that you're seeing in social, right? And a lot of times what we have deep conversations with our clients and brands about is what's the goal that you want to achieve with this paid social execution? What are we trying— what are you trying to do? What do you think you're trying to do? And sometimes what we think is trying to get done is has to be molded a little bit into, okay, well, this is what we can achieve. And if you're just looking at CPMs, you're never gonna get to that bigger picture. Right, right. Well, we're to the last segment, the Mythbusters segment. And for those that haven't watched this before, I've got a few myths here that I'm gonna ask Danielle and Mo to comment on. And maybe they'll disagree, maybe they don't think it's a myth. So that's starting with my perspective. So Mo, I'll start with you. Awesome. This myth, posting more means better results. Love this one, but posting more does not mean better results. I mean, a brand can post every single day, but when you start to look at the engagements and the data behind it, if your engagement's still falling flat, then your content isn't really bringing any value. A lot of times I think that You can post once and, or post a few times and one small post is going to spark more conversation than the last 10 posts you've had back to back that don't stop the scroll and add to the noise. So what I always like to say too is it's okay to let your content breathe. Mm-hmm. It's okay to give it space and let it live because if, as long as you're putting out content that can spark a conversation, that's a win in itself. Yeah, I agree with you. And I think I liken it to another digital channel, and that's email. Yeah, yeah. When you're engaging with a brand, you don't want an email every day from that brand, even if they're offering some level of value via that email. After a while, it just gets exhausting. And I feel like social can be the same way. Yeah, I mean, you're getting fed so much content every single day that it's so easy to have or get viewer fatigue. So it's just really important. Do you want to be a part of the noise or do you want to bring something of value to your audience? Good point. I think that's really important too, because it takes into perspective the consumer viewpoint, right? We're thinking about our consumers, what they're going to interact with, how they want to interact with our brand authentically and You don't want to be just hit in the face with tons of noise, really. Yeah. Right. All right, Danielle, I have a myth. Okay. And you may not agree. Spending more equals better engagement. Oh, again, I love this myth because on paper you're like, yeah, that makes sense. But it is not always the case. In fact, more than like, most often it's not. If you don't have a sound concept that you're strategically running, you're just putting money behind something that's not going to work. So really it comes back to the strategy, the why behind a paid campaign, the KPIs that you're looking at. Because if you don't have good creative or you don't have good content, you're just throwing money down the drain, really. Yeah. Yeah. No, good. All right, Mo. Yeah. I love this one actually, because it seems to be what everyone always wants to achieve. And that's this myth is going viral means success. I think everyone that's in the social media marketing world is like rolling their eyes at that. So I mean, definitely does not mean success. I do think that going viral means that you can get eyes on you. But if you're not being— if you're not able to take that attention and turn it into something meaningful for your brand or for your community, then that's just not successful at all. Brands can get millions and millions of views on content, but once that life— like, that lifespan of that piece is over and they go back to dipping, then you know that there is no success in that. You want to be able to put out consistent content that resonates and that your, your viewers will want to engage with without being prompted to. And once they get to that point, that's when I feel a brand is successful, when people are doing it out of their own will. So yeah. No, good. Danielle Myth. It's not worth it for a brand to put money behind their organic audience. This is a good one because— You guys can duke this one out. No, we talk about this one quite often. I think it's, well, it's a myth definitely because from a paid side, you're missing out on your most active audience. Right. Right. And why would you want to miss out on promoting something that you know this audience is going to want, need, or utilize, it just kind of is a no-brainer. Um, and that's when it comes down to, right, what creative are we, are we pushing out from a paid perspective versus an organic perspective, right? Because unless you're boosting, it's going to be two separate strategies. Right. Mm-hmm. So I, I love talking about that. I completely agree with you on that one because we've had so many conversations. But a lot of times, like we said, the audiences too are a little bit different. But if you can tap into both of your following, your fan base, and then the potential fans that you can have, why wouldn't you want to? Yeah. Yeah. Good. Well, thank you both. That brings us to the end of this episode of Go Beyond. And I appreciate Danielle and Mo joining me today and talking about social media and why it's not as easy as a lot of people think. And it continues to be something that you have to stay on top of. So thanks to everybody for listening or watching today. And please come back and join us for another episode next month of Go Beyond. Feel free to leave a comment in the notes section. Also, you can find there where you can subscribe to this podcast, but you can also subscribe to the Brandeis newsletter as well. So thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you next time on Go Beyond.