S2 Ep21: He Arrived from India to the UK With Nothing… Now His Brand Is Global

Today's unbelievable guest on Entrepreneurs Worldwide. Wow, does he have a story. You start a spirits brand that actually you know very little about. Are you mad? I think so. He arrived in Scotland with only £500 in his pocket from India. I had a very high risk appetite because there was nothing to fall back on. I was unhappy, I was getting obese, and I was just not looking after myself because I wasn't in the state of mind I wanted to be in, and I had to find a purpose. He then goes on to get an unbelievable a stable banking job and becomes a huge success at it, working for BlackRock. I was on a £3,000 per day day rate contract. Okay, every reason to stay. Every single reason to stay. Nish decides to jack it all in and fulfill his dream, and that is to create an international spirits brand, Rutland Square Spirits. How much money did you need to get it off the ground? A good brand? Yeah. At least £10 million. Do you really? Minimum. We add in 20-odd airports. We are going into 50 more airports by end of this year. It has now had a valuation of way over £30 million. I have been offered £50 million for the brand. I've rejected it already. Yeah. Welcome Nish Sharma to Entrepreneurs Worldwide. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Well, we're excited to have you. I mean, we've got so much to tuck into. How on earth did you have a heart attack at 35 years old? I don't know how, but the leading factors were stress, chaos, uncertainty. I was 140 kilos big, overly obese, going through the process of building a startup with no capital into a sector which is billionaires' bad boy play, where you need to have lots of money to do it. And ignorance was bliss, and that led to it. What gave you the idea of a spirits brand? The major factor was the family. My great-grandfather, who had an itchy foot, he migrated from the northwest part of India to the extreme northeast. This is back then when you couldn't just jump on a plane and fly out. So he walked, he took bullock carts, he took a steam train, and then he ended up from the most extreme western part of India to the most extreme eastern part of India, looking for an opportunity because he could speak English. Wow. And then he ended up working for an English lord who owned a tea estate where he was a translator for the labor who couldn't speak English. And he met a Scottish officer who was also working in the British Army during British India era, and they started an illegal operation of blending spirits to— as a side hustle. So alcohol was in my blood. Brilliant. It certainly was. So you ended up coming over to the UK at what age? 19. 19. I just finished my school and I took a flight out. Wow. Now your father gives you £500. What were you doing coming over here? Did you know what you were coming for? Did you have a dream to come here? Did you have family here? I had no idea. I think I was going through a phase. I, um, quite a phase. It was a phase, yes. Um, I wasn't doing much in India and I couldn't see myself building a career in my dad's business. He had a very basic, um, good enough business for a family of 4, 2 children and a partner and himself. And I wasn't interested in what he was doing. It was a great thing for him. It just wasn't for me. And I wanted to do something exciting. Your first job was what, pot washing? How on earth do you go from pot washing to get a job at BlackRock? I always had this thing about if it cannot be done, I must do it. My then girlfriend, now wife, she was in Scottish Widows Investment Partnership and she has a law degree. And she has a psychology degree, and she said you need to have a degree to get into banking. And that was my hook, that I can somehow find my way into banking. So what do you major in? So I didn't go to uni, I dropped out of uni. I went to college, I did my Higher National Certificate and Diploma. I went to uni, I was an international student, I had to pay £16,000 annually as my fees myself, so I couldn't figure my stuff out. That's a lot of pots. It was, and the pots weren't enough to pay for the fees, so I decided to drop out. Um, just before this podcast started, I made a comment about, um, you know, asking my tutor, then very nice guy, that how many businesses have you set up? He said none. So I walked away. I saved myself £16,000 a year. A company like BlackRock, which is one of the most famous— yeah, biggest asset manager in the world. Absolutely huge. Yes. I'm amazed you were qualified enough to get a job like that. Started from the bottom, right? Talk us through that. So, uh, before I did BlackRock, I ventured into selling Sheila's car insurance, I left, but I had some call center experience that helped me get a job into Aegon as insurance, again, in call center. I would always have this hook, what did my manager do that puts him in that position? And I would learn through Google about his job. I will read his CV and I will upskill myself, prepare myself for interviews, and I keep giving interviews until I would be successful. And this is how I scaled. So I went from Aegon to Lloyd's to Scottish Widows to every single bank I could. Everything from back, back office to the middle office. And then you ended up at BlackRock? Yes. What was your title there? What was your role? So I started as an associate and then I ended up my career as a VP, Vice President. Fantastic. And how long did that take? 4 years. I would look for jobs above my pay grade and I'll somehow convince the interviewer that I'm good for this job. So what do you think it was about you that they identified and saw such potential to, because 4 years is very fast. It was. It was fast, and I think I always had the skill. I have been a people's person, and I can always look for an opportunity, and I would convince them that give it a shot. If I don't perform, put me back in my seat. Yeah, you're like 100% money back guarantee. You know, we had an entrepreneur on last week who, he was saying that his old boss, I think it was George Koukas, all he really wanted to hear was, 'What do I have to do to get this job?' Yeah, that floors a lot of employers, and I bet you've taken that all the way through your business. I don't know about gift, but there's something I believe in, and I strongly believe in this, that if you can put your mind into something and you really believe into this piece of work that you want to do, you put your heart and soul out. Because as human beings, you know, we are born with no training and we somehow learn to walk. 100%. So you're obviously earning decent money now. At this point, what are you earning at this point? Uh, I was on a £3,000 per day, day rate contract. Okay. Every reason to stay. Every single reason to stay. So this is what blows us away, which is your mother and father must have strangled you. Everybody, everybody was ready to strangle me. Yeah. You've got a lifetime in banking. Yeah. And BlackRock and actually God knows where you might have gone. Yeah. If you'd have stayed, but you decide to jack it all in, which is why we are called Entrepreneurs Worldwide. You are a true entrepreneur. You're exactly what we love on this show. You start a spirits brand that actually you know very little about. Are you mad? I think so. I think ignorance is bliss. You know, what can I say? Something my grandfather used to say, until you dive in the water, you don't know how, what skills you have. Either you drown and die, or you somehow find a way to swim to the shore. So would you describe yourself as a man that has quite a high-risk profile? I would say I now have a bit, uh, a moderate risk profile. Earlier, I had a very high-risk appetite because there was nothing to fall back on. I came to this country with $500, which I returned back adding $500 to my dad back because he was very clear, I'm giving you the last of money I can afford to pay you. And this, don't expect any money from me. And that did hurt me a little. And it's like, I'm the only boy. You know, my sister is 12 years younger than me. But he gave you what he had? Or do you think he had a little bit more? Well, he could have scooped a little bit more, but that it was my decision and he wasn't with me on this decision. He said, you know, you are deciding to leave your family behind and doing— going to do something that you want to do. So he, he thought it was a bit of a brash decision, so he wanted me to survive through my decision. So you set up Rutland Square Spirits. Yes, it didn't start as a drinks brand, it started as multiple failures. Rutland Square, before it became Rutland Square, it was an, um, an attempt to do whatever I could because I was unhappy in what I was doing. Money was great, and I comes a point in your life when you make a lot of money, um, decent amount of money, especially when you come from where I have come from, and you're driving the dream car you wanted to drive, you're living the lifestyle you wanted to live, you know, you're just— if you're not fulfilled inside, that hole just gets wider. I was depressed, I was unhappy, I was getting obese, and I was just not looking after myself because I wasn't in the state of mind I wanted to be in. And I had to find a purpose. And for me, that purpose went through multiple failures, even Till date, every day I go through failures. It's the only way through is to learn. But what are you saying, you had other companies before the drinks brand? Yes. So I started a leather business company importing bespoke shoes from Spain and selling them. That failed. I had a film production company because I started filmmaking. That failed. Then I had a few other bits and bobs selling e-commerce stuff. And were you just living on the money you'd saved? Yeah, you know, it was the money I was making. And of course my partner was working as well. So we had a comfortable ecosystem. I could take risks. But the drinks brand is the big ticket item, right? It's now valued at over £30 million. Yeah. I want to know how you've got that to where that is today. So I had this hook to do something of my own. I was going through this phase of trans— I was transpiring into something that I didn't want it to be. And in this phase, my grandmother passes away. I was very close to my grandmother. My mum was postnatal after she had me. She was just a 19-year-old when she conceived me. Me. And she didn't know how to look after a baby. So technically, I was raised by my grandmother. So when you lose an anchor in your life, you almost lose everything. And that's where it all happened. I was in India for 2 weeks, you know, going through the process of the death, the grief. And my grandfather and I found solace. We started drinking together and we started chatting together. Of those 2 weeks, we had nothing better to do other than sit down and have a chat and remember her. This is where I learned about how my great-grandfather started and how how alcohol came to our life and how I felt, okay, if he could make it into alcohol— I live in the Maccoff spirit, which is Scotland— why should I not start an alcohol journey? So I came back with the dream to build the best whiskey distillery a man could, but whiskey humbled me. You need millions and millions of pounds, which I never had. Whatever pot of money I had, I thought I had millions, which wasn't there. And, um, and I had to start with gin. So gin happened by force. It wasn't something I intend to do because I couldn't afford to do whiskey. How do you know how to do that and where how did you make it? I have ADHD, so for me, anything I do, it has to be in a certain way, otherwise I feel there's something missing. And obsession of building or creating something that had— has meaning was the foundation. So I really wanted to tell my story rather than just create a bottle of gin, because there are thousands of gins on the shelf. Of course. Why would anybody pick up a bottle? Where was your first bottle created? In Edinburgh. In a kitchen? No, it was done professionally because it's alcohol, it cannot be done in a kitchen. The idea was conceived my home office in a small box room. We were in COVID period and, you know, we were just— the branding was done in my office. But then I had 100 grand in my pocket, which I thought a lot of money, and I burnt it all on a brand agency, and then I had no money to buy stock. So this is how it started, because I wanted to make it the best looking gin that a man can produce, because people buy from eyes first before they even put liquid. Would you say by your continued endeavors and belief in yourself and never ever giving up, that that actually creates opportunity and it creates a vertical learning. Absolutely. You started this in COVID. How have you scaled that so quickly? It is a good gin, but not just because it's my gin. I have poured my heart, soul, and my life into it. Can you tell us what makes a good gin? Um, any good base spirit, because the base needs to be strong like a house. The foundation has to be strong, otherwise it collapses. So we used the top-tier neutral grain spirit that we can find in Scotland. And my master distiller, Matt, who's an absolute genius in what he does— he runs a company, we white label our gin, so we don't have a distillery of our own— but Matt was very clear in the direction I was going. I came up with a recipe that I like, and I thought it needs to be a story in a bottle rather than a product in a bottle. I was more led by story because I, I was— I come from that creative background. Well, Well, uh, we've had many entrepreneurs on this show that say it's not so much these days about the product. It needs to be good, but it's about the storytelling. Yes. As I said, people buy from eyes first and then they put liquids to lip. The liquid has to back up, otherwise they will never repeat. And if the repeat doesn't happen, you die. Sure. So did you own the manufacturing? I own the IP, which is the recipe, the brand, the name, the glass. Often The approach would be to dominate and control everything so the errors are less. Manufacturing is a more cash-intensive exercise because you have to set up shop. You need to buy equipment before even you can start producing. And then even if you're producing, then you need to pour money to sell. Right. Owning an IP is not as cash-intensive. Your cash is tied up on your stock, your infrastructure, your glass. But owning a manufacturing is a higher risk. How much money did you need to get it off the ground? A good brand? Yeah, at least 10 million. Do you really? Minimum. Wow. Yeah. What's the gin called? Rutland Square Chai Spiced Scottish Gin. Ah, right. So that's not— it's— but Rutland Square, I thought, was the, was the umbrella of the— Rutland Square became the company, but we made it Rutland Square so it resonates. We don't— didn't want it to do— say that again. It's Rutland Square Chai Spiced Scottish Gin. Yeah, it's got Indian spices in it, doesn't it? Which makes it unusual. It's an immigrant story. Yeah, you know, Beautiful bottle. Thank you. How did you come up with the bottle idea? Because that's hard. I, I will give the credit to the design agency Contagious. I hired them. They were the, the topmost design agency from Edinburgh, Leith, and companies like Diageo would hire them to do a design. So I poured in every single penny I ever owned into creating the bottle. I was about to say, how much did that cost? 100 grand. Oh God. Where did you think that you were going to start selling it, and who went out on the road and sold it. Ignorance is bliss. I thought the day I will launch, people will line up to buy my gin. Never happened. No, brilliant. You know, you have this mad idea. I think that's, uh, see, I think that's sane because I think a lot of entrepreneurship is actually just about jumping off a cliff and figuring it out before you hit the ground. Well, when you jump, when you jump, you don't think in that direction. You just jump because you have nothing to do, to lose, you know. And especially people with ADHD, they are almost bored of living and they try to do crazy stuff which almost kills them on a daily, daily basis. Do you take any medication? No, please tell me. This is my superpower. I would not. I tried. It slows me down and it kills my creativity. I, I have learned to control it, uh, but it works best. So fast forward to now, you've got a $30 million valuation minimum. Yeah, 3-0, $30 million valuation. How many bottles a week, month, year are you selling, and where are you selling them? So we are selling everywhere. We are selling We are selling on Master of Malls, we are selling on the Whiskey Exchange, we are selling on every single platform that's out there in the UK. We are selling directly from our website, which generates more revenue. Do you want all the pubs and the bars? Not there yet. We are slowly getting there. It's a very cash-intensive exercise. Even to get a shelf on the bar comes with a cost. So we pour that money into marketing. Do you know what it is? Is Richard only drinks skinny bitches. Yeah, very nice. Seriously, that is him. Vodka, lime, and soda. So that's why he is— I do love— I won't mention it, but I do love a gin and tonic. As well, but there is a particular brand. But gin is the most healthiest drink you can drink. Is it really? More than vodka? Yes. Well, vodka is just potatoes, so there is some level of starch in it. If you are drinking a potato vodka or if you're even drinking a grain vodka, it has grain. Anything that goes through the process of fructose and turning into sugar is not clean. How did you sell your first bottle? I went to shops selling one bottle at a time. Sometimes I would say, keep a bottle, if it sells, then pay me. So high risk, high rewards. I did that for almost 2 years. I would go to markets, I would go to farmers markets, and I would set up shop early in the morning and then sell till 10 PM. Only way to do it. I did that. I saw, like, literally my entire inventory would be in my van. Yeah, I would have my whole year's stock would be just sitting in my van, and I would go out every single day like a crazy salesman. I would just show up, people will shoo me away, and I'll still show up like that hungry dog who's sitting outside for a piece of bread. And I just never gave up. And today we are a team of 25. We are selling in Canada, 690 outlets in CBO. We are in Pan GCC, Qatar, Doha, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, and Dubai via MMI. We are in 20-odd airports. We are going into 50 more airports by end of this year. Um, we are in Hong Kong, we are going into Singapore, Malaysia. You scaled it that quickly. Do you get involved with distributors? Yes. Over there, is that how you've done it? Yes. So most companies, they like to invest the capital they raise into marketing. We did absolutely opposite. If you look into, look into our Instagram, social media presence, we are not aesthetic at all. We are just raw, random kids trying to do stuff because we followed the methodology of having a bottle on the shelf first before even we can market it to get people to the shops. If you're not even on the shops, where are people going to buy it from? True. So we build relationship with the company. So what you see today, 690 outlets, are hundreds of emails sent over 3 years. I'll just take an example, Waitrose, Tesco, and Sainsbury's. I have been hammering them for past 4 years. I I've still not gotten yes. So maybe next time when I'm on and I say we are available in Waitrose, that 4-year consistency would pay that off. I think one of the things a lot of people won't realize, unless you've got a retail brand, and I learned very quickly, you're never going to get into a retailer unless they've got to take something off the shelf to get you on. Yes, and they do make space because we pay for the space as well. Uh, we create a small space for ourselves. For them, they're like speed rails. They don't like to see brands sitting there collecting dust because They see their money tied up. Of course. So whatever sells, they will stock. So I have a huge belief in lean is mean. And actually, if you get the right people— how did you find those people? They're all odd people. I have found them, some from LinkedIn. I have found some through the journey. For example, Selina, perfect example. She was my boss in HSBC. She was the best process mapper I've ever seen in my world. What is a process mapper? I was going to say. So process map is when you're dealing with billion-dollar companies, you have to have a process in place how this function will take place. So she would use Visio to understand this team member will do this, this task will transpire into this, and this task will transpire into this, and this is how the loop will be closed. So she was perfect in terms of how the functioning would happen. And I always had it in mind. And she took a 60% pay cut to come join me, and she invested £50,000 of her life savings into me. Oh, we love that. Because— What a lovely story. She believed in me. And now my biggest hook is I cannot let her fail. Yeah, totally. You know, I can fail myself, I can fail everything, I cannot let her fail. No. So my, my responsibility is far greater than anything else because I can't let her down. How good a husband are you? Not a good husband at the moment. Well, how can you be when you're working like that? That's the problem. This is what we hear on— so we're both divorced and we're both entrepreneurs, serial entrepreneurs. It's hard because in a marriage, marriage is, uh, it's a project in yourself. Yes. Uh, one partner needs something else and you're going through a different phase of your life and you, you cannot bring your problems home. You, even if you want to share, it will scare them off. The kind of life an entrepreneur lives, it's scary. Yeah, it's so scary that it's a dark hole. It is a roller coaster ride. Yes. It's unfair. Yes. Like, people see that 30 million valuation, this, they think I've got 30 million lying cash in the bank. Of course that's not true, right? There are days that, you know, it's valued on the profit you're making. Yes, it's, it's on the revenue we are doing, it's on the money we have raised, it's on the stock we hold. It's multiple factors. Once you get it right, is it a very profitable thing to be involved in? Why? Margins are high because it's a volume of scale. Yeah, it's economy of scale. So the more you sell, the cheaper your product gets on the bottom line. Where does most of the, um, the costs lie? Uh, the most cost is your liquid that you have to produce and pay upfront because we don't get any good credit terms from our suppliers. But we have to give 60-90 days credit upfront to our buyers because we have to please them. So we are the ones who are taking the cash hit. Now I don't have any money in the bank where my buyer who owes me £100,000, but that money is not going to come into my bank account for next 90 days. But my supplier who's made my gin wants the money day one before even he releases my stock. So it's always a chicken and egg situation for us. But the larger you grow, the better the terms you'll get with your suppliers. Of course, everybody wants to work with the rising sun. Yeah. You know, it's the Gulfstream that demands the value, not the Boeing. It's a bit like doing this podcast. There are loads of gins, loads of gins, which means plenty of people are buying them. Same with the podcast. Yes, everyone's doing a podcast, but that means a lot of people are more open to listening to them. Consumers will consume anything that they feel it's right for them. It's about you narrating that story and they buy into your story. So there's room for everything. I would never say that there is more— enough gin in the market. If you have a story that you want to bring to people, they will buy it. Your product is full of love, passion, you know, and actually meeting you in person. I see it. I just— you're amazing. I see it too. I see it. Over the years, you've obviously made mistakes. You've been on the breadline quite a few times. You've had multiple businesses that haven't worked. Share with our viewers and audience what you've learned. I think the formula is same. I think one thing entrepreneurs and founders forget is cash is king. We have an oversight on cash flow. We go and drive ourselves into scale, but without realizing how quickly it can burn through money. And if you have an oversight on your balance sheet, which I struggle to keep an eye on my balance sheet, so I have a CFO. So I made sure that when I started my journey as a one-man bandwagon, the reason I was failing was because I was trying to do everything. I was the driver, I was the delivery man, and I was the salesperson, and I was the marketing guy. This is not how it should be. The minute you raise capital, or even if you put your own money, hire people. People, because that people will multiply your effort. And hire good people who believe in the vision. If I take Selena as an example, she believed in me and the product that I made. Otherwise, why would somebody take a 60% pay cut, well-paying banking job in HSBC, and come work for a startup which is bound to fail? You've been giving shares away to people. Yeah, I've got an ESOP program. She's a shareholder and a director on my company. I know this, yes. So for founding team, uh, because we don't have the capital to give them cash upfront to remunerate them for their effort. So what we do is we give them an ESOP plan. An ESOP plan gives them a certain amount of guaranteed shares in the company. If certain milestones are met, they get those shares. And then whenever the big funding round is happening, if they want to— liquidity event— we can create for them and give them a big paycheck. Yeah, it's a brilliant way of, of keeping employees focused and, and actually valuing Everybody's looking for something in it for them. Of course. This is how life is. If you go out and crack a deal, everybody's first focus is what am I going to get out of it? What's your end goal? We are going into acquisitions now. We are— I'm setting up my own fund in Abu Dhabi because I'm pooling a lot of capital. We are closing a $150 million round this year and we want to buy distressed assets. The whiskey distillery is going through a shift and we are identifying key distilleries that we want to acquire. And if we are successful, we will be accumulating assets. You've raised $150 million? We have raised $150 million. 50, we got another 100 million committed to us. What was the structure? Well, it's a fund structure. It's, uh, controlled by a fund manager and an investment committee. So the fund, the money, and I are on arm's length. We have a mandate in place. So I put a mandate through that we need this money for XYZ. They go through a vetting process, and investors put— so it's like a pot of capital coming from various directions. So you basically think you can pick up distilleries for a song? There are many out there. What are you going to do to turn that around? What's your business model to turn it around? So I have something, an access to the market, which is the fastest growing market in the world, which is India. And because I was born there, it's closing my circle. Brilliant. And my family has been into the alcohol. I have the connections on the ground. I have, you know, people who know me. I have a billionaire Bollywood actor backing me who's a shareholder in the company. He's got over 20 million followers. He sits on a cash pile of $6 billion he's raised from Blackstone. Does he ever come to London? Can he come on the pod? He does, yeah. He's got to hold it back. I was going to say, hold it back. I can't believe you didn't tell us straight up. But that's extraordinarily clever because you've gone through the back door. You started out by describing whisky as being such a high bar to entry. It's extraordinarily clever that you've gone and created a fund to go mop up the mistakes or the cash flow crunch. Bring efficiency, turn it around, plug it into the world or the part of the world which is consuming the most. Price-sensitive market, reduce your COGS, plug it into a sensible price. Great. People have this idea of selling premium brands. I'm a premium brand. Your brand's nothing if it doesn't sell. Yeah. So it needs to be a strategic premium brand. You can add more premium products. I was just thinking, it's just racing through my mind that, um, you know, I love guests like you. We love guests like you. I'll tell you why. Because you start off and think, and he's just— and as the podcast has gone on, he's sung like a canary. I can see how all the jigsaw pieces fit into it. Itself. It's something you don't think about or you don't plan. Sometimes life has a mysterious way of putting you into the right track. You just need to start walking, the path follows. So it happens organically. Yeah, it's brilliant. Very true. Now I want you to crow about what you're good at. Why do you think that you've got to where you have in 3 years? Um, I think what I'm good at is, uh, people management. Yes, people work with people invest in people. There's no business in the world without people. And if you're good with people, you're honest with them, you tell them the truth, you tell them, this is my plan, my plan has failed, but I'm going to pivot around, believe in me, people will come and join your journey. Maybe reframe that because there's a stat where I think it's 3 companies every founder builds and fails on before they build the right one. Well, again, it comes to people, right? You have to do that to learn. Let me ask you, what is your sales process? So our sales process is very complex. Flex. The D2C sales process is we do, we run some organic ads on social media that attracts towards the brand. People try it, they like it, they repeat it, and this is how we are surviving. If there was no repeat, we would not be, I would not be sitting here. Of course. So the product is good, it's market fit, people are liking it, they are repeating it. Company countries like Canada are ordering it because they love the concept. Is it price sensitive? Well, we, we have a market where you eat it. Where do you sit? So it depends what you are looking to bring to table. If you're just looking at London dry gin with nothing in it, you can— gin starts at £16, as low as £12. Gordon's gin, £15. Uh, the, the product itself is not the, the challenge. The duties are expensive. You know, my bottle of gin, £9.67 is a duty alone, which I have to pay HMRC first before even I put that bottle out of my warehouse. So it's a very cash-intensive exercise. And it's a fun It's hence the fund, because I don't come from money. Who's gonna back me? No. And if you're going to grow and scale, you're going to have to pick up— you need to have money, and you can't consistently raise because your company has 100 shares or 100% ownership, and then you dilute to extend without breaking through. You're a minority shareholder in your own company. But if you set up a fund, you sell nav and units, you don't have to worry about the, the percentage you are giving away. You initially do that to build a valuation, to build a company. You show scalability stability, and then you reach out to institutional investors who have a play. Pensions. And yeah, we are not quite there yet with pension. That will be next phase, which is our 500 million fund, which we are launching, uh, 2028, uh, because we want to build a hydrogen-powered whiskey distillery with a 200-bedroom hotel. Fantastic. 200-bedroom hotel. Yeah, luxury hotel. Oh, I love that. Where? In Edinburgh, Midlothian. Do you know, I think you're going to do that. Of course you will, Sudeep. Of course I will. You are. Absolutely. It'll take time, but I will. You so will. I've got nothing better to do. Midlothian. Where in There is an area called Roslyn. Oh yes, of course, where the Roslyn Chapel sits. So within the vicinity of Roslyn, wherever I can find the ideal land— we have a few land we have identified, um, it's about buying it in the right price and then turning it around and plugging a brand to run the hotel. Because I'm not a hotelier, I don't know how to run a hotel, I don't understand the ergonomics of running. You know how to wash pots. I do, I can do that job if I need, or therapy. I'm sure you can figure it out. Well, we have— we have been speaking to some of the biggest brands in the and they are quite keen to collaborate with us. So they will take, what is called, an operating ownership where they will take a 99-year lease and they will come and slap their brand onto our hotel. Can I ask you something just about that hotel quickly? The infrastructure around. So when you're buying freehold land, because obviously it has to be freehold, you do look at transport links. Does Roslyn have suitable airports? Yes. International airports, helicopter pads, everything. It's the biggest golfing ground in the world. Perfect. So everybody, all the billionaires of the world fly in, so they have the infrastructure. They don't have a luxury hotel that I like. I like the hotels like Amman, I like the hotels like, you know, uh, Fairmont. That's the gap in the market. 3 million people come to Edinburgh every year and beautiful hotels, uh, but they don't give the service that the people, they demand out that scale and at that level. That's where I'm trying to fill the gap. Do you know what the theme is yet for Yes. Okay, what is it? It's very much Scottish, but within a touch of the royalty from India. Please, yes. I knew you were going to say that. I saw it in my head. Raj. Yeah. For me, an Ayurvedic wellness center is a must-have. Yes. So we are working with one of the biggest Ayurvedic wellness center groups to either lease out a place in the grand scheme of things, or the hotel partner we will pick, they must have a— I would love to have Aman, if Aman agrees, if they are listening. If not, I have a few players on the table who are very keen to work with us, and I'll pick one. Fantastic. It's something that you said about how important it is to have amazing people around you. You want to be employing people that want a career, not a job. Yes, hunger. I'll put it bluntly, hunger. If you don't have hunger, I, I don't work with people that are not hungry, who are looking for, you know, a sane life. I have no balance in my life. I don't sleep, I don't eat. I am on the go. I want people like that. I mean, you're obviously eating at some point. Yeah, I mean, I've cut down a lot of weight, so I'm eating one meal a day. But I mean, I'm on the go. Before even coming here, I had a meeting in the morning. How many hours are you working a day? Depends. Sometimes I start at 7 and I wrap up at 12. Sometimes I wrap up at 3. Last night I wrapped up my meetings around 10, but I went to bed at 3. I had to create— What are you doing between 10 and 3? I was working on finances, I was working on cash flow forecastings, I was working on, you know, every investor has a very specific need. Some are looking for growth, some are looking for stability. So you cannot serve every dish on a plate and sometimes you have to tweak your business model to accommodate the investor. The investors are very demanding. How are you actually meeting that service need for them? I'm currently working with billionaires. What's your reporting process? Process? Well, we do quarterly reporting. We have annual audited reports that goes out to them. But for me, they will require individual— I fly out. Yeah, of course. I was in India just now, 3 weeks ago, and I did a board meeting in a wedding because one of the investors' daughters were getting married and 3 of the investors were going to be in the same wedding. I flew one of the investors into that wedding as an, you know, a plus one, and we did a board meeting there. India is clearly going to massive market for you because it's a market you know. What's the difference in doing business with India, Indians, rather than people in the UK? Is there a massive difference, um, disparity? It's— so yes, disparity does exist, but it's— that's an opportunity because when people don't have anything, they are aspirational to build something. So they are potential clients. Where in the West, we are already a mature economy, people have already earned a certain style of living, they have experienced life in a certain way, so we have a mature infrastructure all we do is improve the infrastructure we have. India is building that infrastructure. So housing is big in India. If you want to be a developer, be in India because, you know, 2 billion people on the planet are from India. It's a growing market. Do you think you being Indian open a lot of doors for you business-wise over there? Yes, absolutely, because culturally I'm relevant to them. Do you have a figure in your head as an exit? I'm never going to exit. Why should I? Yeah, why would you? Isn't it amazing that we have so many entrepreneurs come on here and say the same thing? No, I can understand it, because what are you going to do? You'll just have to build. If I give you 100 million tomorrow, you don't take it? I will not. I have been offered 50 million for the brand. I've rejected already. Yeah, I have, I have received one exit offer from one of the biggest players in the world. I very politely declined because I feel I take that money, maybe for first one year I'll travel around the world, I'll eat the best food, go to the best sushi bars. What will I do then? I'll get depressed and I'll get lonely. Here's one entrepreneur said to us as exit, he had terrible seller's remorse and he said there's only so many boutique hotels and so many Amman hotels you can stay in. Yeah, in saying that, I think I could give it a good go. Yes, but you feel that way. I'm telling you, it's darker on the other side. I agree. And I know you're right, I know you're right. I jest, but I do know you're right. Until you don't have money, you want money, and then you see some light of money and you realized that I can only eat so much money and I can only buy so many cars and I can buy so many watches. Is it not about money for you anymore? I feel money is important. I would never say that, that money is not. It's a tool, and we must see this as a tool. Uh, the minute you snap out of the mindset of that I need money— if I lose everything today, I have no fear, and I mean that with the utmost honesty. I'll build it again. Yeah, of course. Do you think you could do business without any contracts? Because I think you're a man sitting in front of me— I would not do that. No, well, no, I'm just I'm going to give you a compliment. I think you can do business on a handshake if you needed to. Again, if I'm not building those relationships and I'm not honest in my dealings, why am I doing it? Because I can only earn— I can only have certain run rate with fraud. If I take 100 grand from you, the 100 grand is not enough. Until you experience 100 grand, you don't realize 100 grand is not enough. Today we've bought 150 grand a month. There was a point 100 grand was life to me. Yeah. When my uncle wrote me a £100,000 check, I thought I've, I've made it in life, until that disappeared and I was dead broke again. And today we burn £150 grand a month on salaries and infrastructural costs and stocks and everything, and which is only going to increase, you know, year on year. So suddenly money has lost value. It is so utterly important when you are so immersed in building, expanding, and scaling, and it does possess you and it does consume consume you. How are you keeping yourself on the same accelerated growth as what's required to reach the heights you're going to get to? It's tough. What's your plan? Well, the plan is, um, sales fixes all. You know, Mark Cuban said it in a podcast, if your sales are coming through, nothing can stop you. Absolutely. If your sales are not coming through, the, the pitfall of burning money will never end. So we focus on driving recurring Revenue. Even the fund that we are building, we are focused on AUM, which is asset under management, and ARR, annual recurring revenue. If the revenues are there, the fund NAV is going to grow and people are going to pull more money. And by that, and, and, and the more assets we buy, the AUM is there. At the end of the day, the value is for the land. He who owns the land is a landlord, and landlord never, uh, fails. How are you keeping tabs on you? I don't keep money. I'm absolutely cash-free. So if I need money, I speak to Selina and she gives me a pocket allowance to live my life. Really? Yeah, I don't control money. What about your wife? My wife, she's an entrepreneur herself. She makes her own money. So we don't muddle our waters with money. I do my duties that I have to as a father and as a husband. Other than that, we are people of very minimum means. We don't have a flashy lifestyle. We don't go out. We indulge whenever we want to. But again, that's, that's, that's, that we do it for the sake of, you know, we should not feel that we are depriving us of the excitements of life. But having said that, we don't have crazy indulgences. We don't go to casinos. I believe, Nish, I'd believe that if I wasn't looking at my absolute dream watch on your wrist. See, this is an investment for me. I don't buy jewelry. Jewelry. I don't buy houses. I don't have 15 houses sitting there, you know, generating rent. What am I leaving behind for my kids that is sentimental? I can give them all the money in the world. I know they are going to be trust fund babies. They are going to be spoiled. They are not going to go through the hardships I have gone through. Does that worry you? It does. But then, but they never chose that life. I am giving that life to them and they like it or they don't. They are a product of a rich father, even wealthier father in the future. That's nothing I can protect them from. They have to learn through their struggles. But sentimental value is materialistic things I can leave behind. So rather than leaving them a cash pile, I would give them a watch where they will wear it and they will have something that connects to me. Yeah, I get that. And also it's an investment. If I can't make my payroll, I can sell it and I can pay the month's rent. Imagine you are on death row. No, no, that's my one. I love that one. We have fights over the last question. Well, I was the one that did the death row last time. No, yes. So we're having a little bit of domestic. That's good. It's all good. It's a healthy partnership. Come on then. No, no, no. Well, no, I was gonna say you happen to be on death row, and the reason you're on death row is because actually you've asked so many people, all your— all these people that you wanted to invest in the company, and they've all said no. So you've shot them all. You're on death row. What's your last meals? I would like to choose two rather than one because I can. I'm on death row, I can ask for anything. I would like for a medium-rare steak with creamy spinach, and I would like some yellowtail tuna. If I were in death row, if I had shot people, which I'm not going to do because I need to run a company and I don't have a gun. Good point. I just want to thank Bold Minds Media. Yes, David Brooks, amazing guy. For amazing man, never answers my call, but good guy. I'm only joking. For introducing us to you. Thank you, David. Thank you, David. He never answers your call, that's because, that's because you're always late with the payments, probably. Yeah, all the time. I make him first before I pay even myself, which I don't. Uh, well, um, just before we go, uh, I'd just like to say, uh, we have a little saying at the end of our podcast. The one thing that we have learned— well, lots of things we have learned from talking to so many incredibly inspirational people like yourself, and that is, if you believe enough in what you're doing, yeah, you can do anything. Yes, that's so true. I am a testament of it. Nish Sharma, you've been a top, top guest. Thank you for coming. You have been very generous worldwide. Thank you. You know, you guys been very kind. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I thoroughly enjoyed lovely trip drinks that you have on the table. And, uh, thank you, you, you guys been wonderful. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Can you do us a favor? Can you hit that follow and subscribe button? You can find us anywhere where you get your podcast on Entrepreneurs Worldwide, and there'll be a new episode every Wednesday at 5:00 AM.