S2 Ep20: How Jane Michell Built Jane Plan Into A Multi-Million Pound Wellness Brand

Jane Michel is the founder of Jane Plan, one of the country's leading health and weight loss programs. I was going out with somebody, actually someone who became my husband, and I weighed more than him, and I thought, I just can't weigh more than my boyfriend, this is awful. In the UK, 67% of people are overweight or obese. Are they? It's extraordinary. And you only have to— I travel around the UK quite a lot, and you only have to go to other areas and you really see it as soon as you get off the train. She has helped since launching her business Jane Plan in 2010, over 100,000 people to lose weight and eat more healthily. I think I've got a solution here that will show people you can have a lasagna, but perhaps not one that weighs 500 grams with garlic bread on the far side. We eat because we're happy, angry, celebrating, bored, tired, stressed. We eat for all sorts of reasons. Food is a great comfort to us. She has served up over 30 million meals. Can you share with us what you turn over now? Uh, this year, upwards of This year, upwards of £22 million. When I was negotiating with suppliers, I used to write my children's names on the palm of my hand because I knew that if I could get 10 pence off that meal, that would mean something else later down the line. You will know her from her many, many TV ads and her media profile, which is second to none. I didn't have a website in 2010. Hard to believe now. And they published my home phone number. And I was on holiday in Portugal with my family when a friend called and said, "Oh, I just saw you in the Daily Mail." I was like, "Really?" I love ideas, I love new ideas, I love seeing people thrive, I love seeing people follow their passion. Leading expert on healthy eating and weight loss. There's a difference between carrying a few extra pounds and wanting to get into your teeny weeny, what's it called, yellow polka dot bikini, and actually needing to lose weight for health reasons. Had a book launch in, um, Daunt Books in Notting Hill Gate. And, um, afterwards I was completely exhausted. I said to the children, let's just go and get a burger at that— I think it's— is it called Tommy's Burgers or something around there? And then Libby, my daughter, said, Mom, what if the press see us here eating these burgers after the launch of your book? I was like, I don't think I'm that much of a celebrity. Oh, that's brilliant. Please welcome to Entrepreneurs Worldwide Jane Michelle of Janeplan. Oh, thank you both so much for having me. Amazing. Thank you. We're absolutely delighted to have you. It's so current. Yes, weight loss is something that never seems to go away. Everybody wants to be fit and healthy. Yes, you've helped them do that naturally with your fantastic meals. Let's dive straight in. Did you have a weight problem yourself at some point? Is that how you got into this? Well, that's not how I got into it, but yes, I did have a weight problem. Right. So in my early 20s, I was probably maybe 2.5, 3 stone heavier than I am now. And then, of course, it was the early '90s, so obviously thin was definitely in. And I just really didn't feel at all comfortable. And so, in effect, I put myself on a kind of healthy eating programme myself. At that time, I had no thoughts of Jane Plan or anything like that. In fact, I was working at the BBC. But what really spurred me on is the fact that I was going out with somebody, actually someone who became my husband, and I weighed more than him. And I thought, I just can't weigh more than my boyfriend, this is awful. And that's what spurred me on to lose the weight. But it was the feeling after I'd achieved that weight that I felt happy with. And what was it, 3 stone you lost? Oh, not quite, almost. Did people really know then what was making them put on weight? It's interesting, we are very much more informed now, but we also get so many conflicting things that I'm not sure we're still informed about why we're putting on weight. But back in the '90s, you're absolutely right, um, I don't think I really knew why. I mean, obviously, as soon as I started eating more healthy and eating less, I thought myself, God, I used to eat a lot. And I then realized that I was just eating too much. And fundamentally, it does really come down to that. Is that what it is? Yeah, it's fundamentally the boring old calorie deficit— calories in versus calories out. And nobody likes to talk about that because it's very unfashionable, but that is what it's about. It sounds like you actually conquered it very quickly. Um, I did actually. Once I got my head into that space, I thought, right, I'm going to do this. And also, I think seeing results is really important to people because it spurs you on, it keeps you motivated. It's also seeing results that last. Results at last is often not the case with weight loss. So how did Jane Plan come about? Because it is a plan. Yes. So that was, you know, we have to fast forward a few years because 2010, you said 2010, I started Jane Plan. Immediately prior to Jane Plan, I had been working in a hospital in London. I'd actually worked in bariatrics, which is gastric banding, gastric bypass. I wonder now with the new generation of weight loss drugs whether that will just become a thing of the past. However, at the time it was very, very much emerging, and I used to see people in my clinic Just be clear, I was not a surgeon, and I'm not a surgeon. Um, I had trained in nutrition, and then I went to work at this weight loss clinic to help people, uh, prepare for their bariatric surgery and eat appropriately both pre- and post-operatively. But one thing that really struck me was how many people I was seeing in the clinic who were saying, yeah, I lost 2 stone, um, with this diet, and then I put 3 on, and then I lost 3 stone with that diet, and I put 4 on, and then I lost 4 stone with that diet, and here I am now, 6 stone heavier than I even started out. And I started to realize that actually traditional diet industry, what I would call the bars, the shakes, the cabbage soups, the lettuce leaves, whatever it may be, actually just didn't work because it removed people from eating normally. And of course, a bit like a headache tablet, if you take a headache tablet because you've got a headache, your headache goes. But if you don't then readjust your posture or, or get rid of the stress in your life or have a warm bath or whatever else, the headache will come back. But also, it sounds like it decreased the metabolism. Yes, so there is obviously risk of that. With any weight loss, you have a lower basal metabolic rate, that True. But yes, you— there is a period of weight loss if you're on an extreme diet where your body can go into a fight-or-flight mode where you might hold on to, to fat. That is true, yes. You set up Jane Plan. Now I'm assuming you started by thinking, well, these are the meals that I've lost weight on and this is what I know works. I'm going to commercialize that. Am I right? How did you do it? It would be so lovely if I'd had this strategic mindset. I didn't. I just felt in a moment of madness I'm working at this hospital seeing all these people who really are now undergoing surgery because they've been failed by the diet industry. I'm gonna see maybe I could help a few more people do a better job. I didn't start with a grand plan. I literally opened it from my home in Fulham. From your kitchen table? From my kitchen table. That is actually true, and there are many very funny stories about that. And I started cooking meals for my friends, um, and family. And I thought to myself, well, what we need to do is we all need to eat 3 good meals a day. We don't want to feel deprived. We need a snack. So I thought, if I provide at the right calorie count and with the right nutritional balance of your carbs, your fats, your proteins, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and one snack a day, and get them to add in their fresh fruits and veggies, then I think I've got a solution here that will show people you can have a lasagna, but perhaps not one that weighs 500 grams with garlic bread on the front side. And that's literally how it started. So I made the meals myself. I literally bought all the ingredients myself from the local supermarket, delivered them to people's doors in my then Volvo, and my then cleaning lady used to pack the boxes. And she actually said to me, I really want to help you with your business. And I said, well, you're meant to be cleaning the house. And she said, no, no, I'm going to pack the boxes. She went on to head up a warehouse of 22 people. So yeah, is that what you grew to? Um, well, we're obviously significantly bigger now, but yes, but that Within about 2 years. So how did you grow it from there, from your friends? And it can't just have been word of mouth. No, you're absolutely right, it was initially word of mouth. But then what happened, and this was a stroke of luck, and, um, and I'm forever grateful, the Daily Mail decided to write a piece on various, uh, diet delivery services. At the time there's quite a plethora in the UK. There was one called the Pure Package, which was very upscale. I would say that we are very mass market, by the way, and I deliberately wanted to be mass market because if you look at the social economics of obesity, they skew in a certain direction. Um, so I wanted to make something that was very available to most people, as in cost, as in cost accessible. Perhaps that's a better way— affordable, affordable to most people. So at the time, there were a variety of— there was a Jenny Craig, there was a company called Diet Chef, there was the Pure Package, one or two other very upscale— Weight Watchers, obviously. Weight Watchers, absolutely. Obviously Weight Watchers, Slimming World, all of those as well, still there. What was your little niche? My niche, that we were actually doing it all for you. So we're telling you what to do, we were doing it for you. But we also supported, and still do, people with, uh, weekly nutritionist check-ins. At the time I was the nutritionist, of course. I was a complete one-man band, um, and that made us a little bit different. So when the Daily Mail wrote this article, um, I couldn't believe it, but we scored most highly. But I didn't have a website in 2010— hard to believe now— and they published my home phone number. And I was on holiday in Portugal with my family when a friend called and said, I just saw you in the Daily Mail. I was like, really? And she said, don't worry, it's great. By the way, your, your 0207 number is in there because this is kind of, you know, not even my mobile number. So I dashed home from Portugal and there was my answer machine, and then I thought, oh God, I do actually— I think I have a business. I don't believe diets work. Yes, you attacked the lifestyle. Absolutely. We're coming from a real lifestyle perspective. We understand that people like chicken tikka masala. We understand that people like a bar of chocolate in a day. That's real and that's why you get chicken tikka masala in a bar. And I think that's why weight loss of the year, and then 5 minutes later she's 10 tons, you know, and you're thinking, well, no surprise there. You named it Jane Plan. Yes, there's a lot of talk about support. I do believe there is that extra element. There's a reason people overeat. Absolutely. There's emotional eating and there's sort of physiological eating. So psychological and physiological. We eat because we're happy, angry, celebrating, bored, tired, stressed. We eat for all sorts of reasons. Food is a great comforter to us, and I think by the added support we offer with our nutritionists— and they're always fully qualified nutritionists— that really helps people overcome some of these things. And this happened to all of us, by the way. What does it set you back? I've always included the nutrition support. It comes as part of the package. It's a bit like having a personal trainer. If your personal trainer just sends you the exercises, yeah, are you going to do them? Yeah, yeah, maybe some days. Well, and you might do them, but you might not do them properly. Exactly. So you— we send you the food, but we also support you with the nutritionist. Um, and so that's included in the price of your plan. Everybody gets that. Each meal is as little as £2.50, is it? Something like that. Yeah, so we come in at under £2.70 a meal depending on which plan you choose. I mean, obviously I used to cook all the meals myself, and now we have a variety of different kitchens around the country. And in fact, another very funny early story is that I was living in a house in, in Fulham, um, and busy narrow streets, uh, terraced houses next to each other. And when I first started with the kitchens, I used to get them to deliver in my small Fulham Street. And they used this haulage vehicle, a juggernaut, used to come up the Fulham Street, unload a pallet, and of course they would just leave it on the pavement. So I used to organize my deliveries when my 3 children got home from school about 4:30, and as soon as the delivery came, I say to children, right, quick, quick, quick, unpack all the meals, quick, quick, into the kitchen. So the kids used to just bring all the meals in. Unbelievable. I'm sure my neighbor That is Jane, a true entrepreneurial startup story. It's lovely. This went on for about a year. There will be people listening thinking, well, she was in Fulham, that's a great postcode, why did she need to pursue and build? Yeah, what was it within you that ignited, that set a fire? Because it has— there was obviously a bushfire that was lit. Well, there were lots of reasons that I started Jane Plan, and I genuinely— I didn't start with a business plan. I never borrowed any money. In fact, This is a good lesson for any budding entrepreneurs. I didn't realize you needed a business bank account, and initially people were just paying me into my personal bank account. And about 2 months into the business, October 2010, someone said to me, I think you might need an accountant. Don't be it, I don't know, fine, I'm fine, it's all fine, don't worry. I got an account. She said, oh my goodness, what do you mean you don't have a business bank account? So yes, it was very, um, very homespun, very homespun. Um, obviously I did get a business bank account just in case anyone's listening. So how did you deal with scale, because if you're, if you're juggling multiple kitchens, you've got timings, you've got schedules, you've got multiple workers, you've got ethos. And the thing that occurred to me is, what about the quality control? You, so it's now grown so much. Yes. And who's, who's, who's got their eyes all over that? I know. Well, despite the many, many, many million pound turnover, we are a very small team. You would not believe how small the team is. Everybody works so hard. I mean, I still work. Work certainly 6 days a week and quite often 7. I still often work through the night, I dare to say. Can you remember what you turned over in the first year? Uh, about £500,000. And that was— well, that's pretty— that was word of mouth and thank you the Daily Mail. Yes. Wow, that's pretty good. So come on, can you share with us what you turn over now? Uh, this year, upwards of— uh, this year, upwards of £22 million. Wow, congratulations! What a wonderful story that is. I've never run a business before. Can I just go back 500,000 the first year. How many meals is that? I'm just calculating my head because that means a lot, a lot of stress. And you had to scale unbelievably quickly. Very quickly. But the funny thing is, it was— I didn't find the scaling very difficult, weirdly. It's always been a bit of a hand-to-mouth business. So because, if you pardon the pun, yes, exactly. I didn't even mean to say that. I should have said field to fork. It's always been a field to fork. Hilariously funny. Um, I just scoured the country, sort of like I found a kitchen in Wales, I found one in Yorkshire. Uh, and when you say kitchen, what is that? So basically, when we talk about kitchens, we talk about something that's slightly smaller than a manufacturing outlet but quite considerably bigger than a kitchen. So when you're making a Jane Plan meal, there could be a waitress meal on the next, next bit. Oh yes. So a lot of, um It's like a factory, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Basically it is, yes. Obviously adhering to some extremely high standards just to be— so what is the greatest failure? What's the cause of failure? So what happened, so this was 2010, then I moved out. We actually had to sell our family house because you did refer to the Fulham postcode earlier, and then I moved, um, to a different postcode, to a much smaller flat actually, um, which is quite hard having a 2-bedroom flat when you have 3 children. That is a challenge in itself. However, the business Yeah, they bounce back. I would say my children are free range, and it has served them well. So I then, um, got a warehouse, um, because all these meals were coming in. It was clearly an untenable situation going on at home. And I— this, this is a true story— the warehouse had a hole in the roof, so much so that one of my very first team members, staff members, Kirsty, got sunstroke in the summer. So, so it was, it was— when I say hand to mouth, I really meant it. So you didn't have HR? And there was no HR. No. Yes, exactly. So then someone approached me in 2013 and said, "We think you should make a TV ad and go on TV." And I'm like, "Have you seen the hole in my warehouse roof? I don't think this is gonna be something that happens." And they persuaded me to do it. So I spent £5,000 making a TV ad in a friend's house, and I just roped in all my Jane Planners to say, "Please, will you appear at my TV ad?" I presented it, and it was slated on what was then called Twitter. And I was described as a Stepford wife. Um, and when you look at that ad, you can actually see why. Do you think you got your any punters? I mean, oh well, it was almost the hilarious thing, was our most successful TV ad ever. Wow. Give me a ballpark of what a TV ad might cost. So we are daytime only, although we do bleed into the evening now, but at the time we were very 9 to probably 4:30. Um, we at the time launched on the very— the dozens of very small channels. Now we are obviously on ITV1. We bought airtime to the value of £10,000. And we were on probably once a day for a period of 2 weeks, and we tested it, but it was really successful, was it? So I would say for anyone listening, test and learn, test and learn, test and learn. Great takeaway. Yes. My biggest failing is I'm incredibly cautious and incredibly risk-averse. And so I really— I look back now and I think, gosh, we could be a much bigger business, but I've always I'm so cautious about every step I take. Why are you cautious? I don't want to fail because I don't want to fail myself, but I also don't want to let down anyone who works for me. But also, as important, you know, when you're running a business, you're responsible for all your suppliers' livelihoods. You're paying their bills. You're responsible for your team. But we also— Jane Plan— I feel we have a moral responsibility. We have a duty of care to our Jane Planners. —there was a company called Jenny Craig that was in the UK. I remember it well. Remember that? They went out of business and they left all their people on their healthy eating weight loss journeys high and dry. I never ever ever want to do that. I want to feel people can trust us. Your parents, anyone entrepreneurs who's guided you? Not at all. But I mentored— no, I haven't really ever had a mentor. The business weirdly has always kind of paid for itself, is the truth. I've never taken a business loan. I've out ever. But because of other things that were going on other parts of my life, um, things were very, very difficult financially. And I re— when I say I had 3 children, lived in a 2-bedroom flat, and in that year I think we moved flats about 5 or 6. What year was that? That was about 2014. The Jane Plan is really taking off like a train. Do you think that has affected your relationship? Unfortunately, the man who I married, who was lighter than me, although only at the beginning of our relationship, Very sadly, we did part ways. Um, and I think it's fair to say that running a business which is all-consuming, 100%, had an effect. That's a very interesting point because I think what's so interesting about you is something in you that somewhere, somehow was created and ignited later that has become a very, very driven woman. Yes. And at the time, um, I can answer that very directly actually. I felt We, as a family, we'd started life in a— going in a certain direction. You've already mentioned Fulham. And then there came a point, two of my children were in their early teens, one was quite a bit younger, and I thought to myself, if I don't do something, my children's lives are going to start going in a very, very different direction. And when I was negotiating with suppliers, I used to write my children's names on the palm of my hand because I knew that if I if I could get 10 pence off that meal, that would mean something else later down the line. And so if things were getting a bit tricky— and I would definitely say I am not a natural negotiator at all, I might become one, but I definitely wasn't then— I used to just open my palm and think, yes, that's— I need to pay for that. So yes, no, I'm afraid I can't buy the lasagna at that price. Do you know, do you know, when you, when you talk about, uh, being risk-averse, yes, I think that comes from having financial worries. Yes. And literally not knowing where the next penny's coming from. I know exactly how that feels. I know Ros knows how it feels. And I think I always say, a bit like you've said, I always feel— I'm very proud of what I've done. Yeah. I always say I could have made more money if I'd have been willing to put more on red. I think to make big money, you have to be prepared to risk it. And I'm not. What was the point you stopped feeling like you were surviving? I don't think I've stopped that. I don't think I've stopped that, if I'm really honest. The gift of desperation. Yes. And actually, I sometimes think to myself when I see people who talk about starting businesses, I sometimes think to myself, if your back's not really against the wall, will you really do it? I mean, I wouldn't share— I do mentor quite a lot of young female entrepreneurs, and I would never say that to any of them because I know that's a very hard a hard thing to say, but it's the truth. Yes, it is. Actually, if you've got to do something, you are most likely to do it. Well, I know that we both had the gift of desperation, like you had. I'm not saying that you have to have it, but it helps. Exactly. The other thing I do say to my female entrepreneurs, um, is that— and actually, most of mine aren't married with children, by the way. I tend to sort of mentor much younger girls, people, women. Um, but frequently I do hear female entrepreneurs, uh, who started something new saying— and I say, why did you start it? And they'll say, well, I just really wanted to improve my work-life balance. And I was like, your business is going to ruin your work-life balance. Yeah, that's what you think. It's not really a business, it's kind of a hobby that pays you. So there are— there is a very distinct difference between that. Are you back in the dating world? Well, I have an amazing, wonderful husband. And how did you find him? Uh, actually, I've known him since I was about 19, rather weirdly. Um, I thought you were going to say you delivered some meals to him. Oh well, I couldn't possibly comment on that one. Um, I've known him since I was 19, but we sort of lost contact and then remet. But through my— I have the most— I am so blessed. I am the luckiest woman alive. I have my own 3 gorgeous children, I have 4 amazing stepchildren, I have 4 grandchildren through the stepchildren, and I'm sure I'm going to get a lot more grandchildren as well. And I I'm unbelievably blessed with the life I lead, and my family life is— it's the sort of things people dream about. If I'm really honest, I can't get over how lucky I am. That's so— how lovely. Yeah, it is really lovely. And you've got that much in internal happiness and you still manage not to put any weight on, because I always find— I always find the more unhappier I am, the easier it is to lose weight. Yeah, I'm one of these people. I know everyone's different. Some people pile it I don't want to eat anything if I'm stressed. No, I'm annoyed. But no, you're right, I am lucky to be happy and thank you. There's one person on this planet that can't put on weight is you. I know, I would imagine. Let me take you back into the business model of this. The sweet spot, I'm guessing, is the subscription. You're absolutely right, it's the monthly return orders. Exactly. I thought, well, let's just do a subscription because you can't achieve your weight loss goal in a month, you can't. So I thought, if I do a subscription thing, then I can guarantee these people are sort of tied in, a bit like a gym membership. I can guarantee then they'll just keep going and they'll reach their goal. So that was the original idea behind the subscription. But then I realized, oh well, actually, from a running a business perspective, it's actually really good because I know roughly what's coming in every month. But then someone else pointed out, probably that lovely accountant called Rosie who helped me, that the good news is you are receiving people's money before you're delivering your meals. 'Cause so in other words, you're, you're cash flow positive. Yeah. I didn't even know there was such a thing as cash flow positive, by the way. That was like a whole new expression to me. And I was like, oh yeah. You stumbled on that, did you? I mean, I wouldn't even say I stumbled on, I didn't even know it was happening until someone pointed it out. Brilliantly. So I was like, okay, that's a good thought. Brilliant. I thought of that. Everyone wants that. Yes, exactly. That loan of business. Yeah. If I could make someone subscribe to a haircut to come into our salon, literally pay upfront or whatever for it to come every 6 weeks. Yeah. That would change my whole business model. Yeah. Obviously you can't with that, but this you can. How have you pivoted in with the introduction of Monjaro and all these jabs? I have been, I must admit, been sitting on tenterhooks for about 2 years now thinking, golly, this is coming, this is coming, this is going to change the landscape. Did it worry you? Really worried me, but I just thought obviously the thing we must do is embrace this. We must offer it as part of our package. We can't reject it and put our head in the sand. But also, we— not from a business perspective, but from a general good care perspective— that's like going to your GP surgery and saying, I've got a little bit of eczema, and them saying, well, I'm not prescribing your eczema cream because we don't do that here, we only do primrose oil. That's not right. We have to give them the very, very best and give them what's available. So we launched the Jane Plante Clinical Program about 8 weeks ago. If I'm honest, we should have launched it a lot earlier. And it's not a pivot, interestingly. It is a— how can I describe this? It's a, it's a little sort of sideline at the moment, if I'm really honest. And the reason it's a sideline is that we suddenly— it seemed to have a halo effect. It's as if being a healthier weight was suddenly back on the agenda. It was as if suddenly the body positivity movement— I'm not saying it's gone away, but I think it's more acceptable now, um, to say, oh, actually, I'd like to lose a bit of weight for my holiday, or I'd like to lose some weight because my knees are aching. They've always wanted to lose weight, but my guess is that they didn't know how to, or they gave They didn't know how to, or they gave up, or in some instances probably joined the ranks of a sort of body positivity movement. Like, it's okay, I'm proud of my body. And by the way, we should all be proud of our bodies. I'm not against that in any way. I think one of the, one of the problems we have in the world today is we've removed weight from health, and we only ever talk about it in the context of appearance. But actually, I mean, there's a difference between carrying a few extra pounds and wanting to get into your teeny weeny— what's it called— yellow polka dot bikini and actually needing to lose weight for health reasons. We've sort of lost that. But what happened with the introduction of the weight loss medication, the breakthrough weight loss medication we're now seeing, the GLP-1s, is that Jane Brown meal delivery— suddenly we found we were really, really, really growing in a lovely way, which was, which was wonderful. I imagine it's because people have just become more aware. And if you've suddenly lost some weight from a jab, yes, you think, well, I can't carry on, or you shouldn't carry on on this jab forever. Now I've lost those 2 stone or that stone, I'm now going to go to Jane Plan and I'm now gonna eat healthily and I'm gonna get it sent to my house and I'm gonna put it in the oven and done. I can see why you would have been worried to death until it's actually had the reverse effect on your business. I think it's also, there are lots of people who just wouldn't take medication for weight weight loss, or there are many people who actually can't for— because of contraindications. And so, but it's probably made them more aware, oh, actually, I maybe I should think about becoming a healthier weight. I will go to Jane Plan. So when I say the Jane Plan clinical program is a sideline, it hasn't had to be a pivot. It is something that you can do to accompany your Jane Plan. It's something you can do separately to your Jane Plan. Um, so you can do your Jane Plan meals with your Awegovi Minjari, you can do them separately. So just to make this clear, in the clinic you have people, experts, that can prescribe a Manjaro. Exactly. We knew that we had to affiliate ourselves, associate ourselves, partner with an absolutely credible organization that we could trust. And I went down a route with, uh, one organization, um, and we could have launched a lot earlier. And literally about a week before the launch, I've been reading some research papers, etc., etc. Now, I am not a clinician,, and I thought, that's interesting research. And I mentioned it casually in a meeting. I said, I was reading this about Monjaro, blah blah blah. And they contradicted me. And I thought, that's weird, because this research has only just come out. And then I thought, golly, do you actually really know what you're talking about? Yes. And I lost faith, and we didn't launch because I didn't feel I could trust them. No. And now we have a wonderful clinical partner who I really am 100% I feel very happy with this. Incredible. It's really hit a segment of the population that no one expected, and it is the, the paunch, you know, the man who sat behind his desk in the city for years. He's probably around 50, and it's a lot of people I know's husbands who you suddenly hear, oh, my husband's on Les Zempia, my husband's on— interesting. And those are the men that never really had the motivation because they got their wife. Why, why should I bother? And they're busy. They're busy. They're lazy in that area. They probably like a glass of wine or three. They love their wine, they love their beer, they love their food. Yeah, so what's gonna change? You just described me. All of it. Yeah, those men have come alive. Obviously doing what I do for a living and talking to so many people, I think it will go down as, this is my view, as one of the most groundbreaking inventions of Yes, the 21st century. I think it could transform. You've got to think, we're sitting here in lovely Southwest London. You don't really see people with obesity walking around here, but in the UK, 67% of people are overweight or obese. Are they? It's extraordinary. And you only have to— I travel around the UK quite a lot, and you only have to go to other areas and you really see it as soon as you get off the train. Sometimes I think we forget about this cohort. Yeah, we live in a bubble, and these people are crossing the HS. Millions, billions probably. What were you like at school? Oh, I was a right school swot. Were you? I was thinking whether you're a bad girl or a good girl. You know, I was thinking the opposite. I was thinking you probably really naughty. He wants to think that. No, I think my parents thought I was really— I think— no, I was quite keen on schoolwork, but I was also quite keen on boys and going out. And also, you're a straight-A student? Student? Uh, yes, more or less. Yeah. Um, but, um, the funny thing is I, I came up from— it came from sort of fairly middle-class standard background in Buckinghamshire, and about age 16 I joined the Socialist Workers Party. Did you really? I think my poor Tory-voting parents from the suburbs of Buckinghamshire thought this was an absolute nightmare. How long did you— how long were you on the left side of politics? Probably a couple of years. I thought you're gonna say until you made your first million. No, I will. I probably I think I do still lean a bit left, actually. Do you really? I probably do. Oh, good for you. But I think socially, definitely, I lean quite a lot to the left. Let me talk. I want to go back. I want to dive back into business. What's your exit look like? Is there a figure in your mind? No, I think my exit will probably be my funeral. Really? You don't even think about an exit? Someone comes along— what about if I came along and offered you £30 million for your business? What would you say? Well, I suppose that would be quite hard to turn down, wouldn't it? But I don't know. James Clannagh is my life. My life. It's my, it's my other child. Also the child has never learned to sleep through the night, I must admit. Um, obviously I have to think sensibly, and I'm nearly 60 now, so, and what will life look like? And I, there are lots of things I do love doing outside of work, and, and I don't get to do them often because of work. Um, but, um, I don't have— I have never had a strategy or a big plan. I don't think I'm even a big visionary thinker type person. My daughter's getting married and she said, Mom, just stick to the doing. I'll do the strategy. This is on her wedding. I was like, I can do wedding strategy too, you know. No, you should— Jane planned doing all the food for the wedding. No, I'm a bit of a gut feeling person. I do like test and learn, but I rely on other people. I love that, test and learn. I really love that. Yeah, that's really, really, really important. You are a published author as well. I know. Tell us about that. Well, I— Mills and Boon kind of thing? No, actually called the Jane Mann Diet. It's mainly recipes actually, and a little bit about— oh no, I'm sorry. The funny thing is, we had a book launch in, um, Daunt Books in Notting Hill Gate, and, um, afterwards I was completely exhausted. I said to the children, let's just go and get a burger at that— I think it's— is it called Tommy's Burgers or something around there? Yeah. And then Libby, my daughter, said, Mom, what if the press see us here eating these burgers after the launch of your book? I was like, I don't think I'm that much of a celebrity. Oh, that's brilliant. I know, I tell That would be worth a few quid though from a paparazzi to sell that into the Daily Mail. I know, that Bible of Truth we all know and love. I know. Well, actually, you talk about that Bible of Truth, about 3 weeks ago, actually over Easter weekend, we had a triple-page spread. I couldn't believe it. It's actually talking about 2 Jane Plans, one lady called Debbie who lost 4 stone and another lady called Michelle who lost 3 stone. And the Daily Mail put this headline and I was so shocked. It said, um, the retro diet— by the way, that's, that's me, the retro diet, because I'm so old— that's better than the fat jabs. A classic Daily Mail headline. But it did make me think how science hasn't moved on. It is back to that boring old calories in, calories out, and that's all the jabs do. It's also the mental health side. I think a lot of people throughout the country are, as you say, time poor. They are, yes, well, they're single moms, single dads, or they're married and they've got low-income families. Yeah, they are trying pay the mortgage, they're trying to attain something. They've got 2.5 children, they've got school they've got to turn up to, they've got to have, you know, supper on the table by a certain time. They're trying to have some kind of holiday every year, and that is very wearing. Also, the weather here is pretty bad, and it doesn't help, you know, because you can hide under a big baggy jumper. And I think it's what goes through a person's mind. Exactly. And I think women in particular— forgive me, Richard— um, do tend to put themselves puts himself last, if I'm really honest. Now you might say, well, men do too, and it's just not talked about enough. No, I don't. I saw— it's always been all about me. I think you're absolutely right. He actually does put himself last. Oh, we can talk like that. Well-ish. What is your daily routine? Oh gosh, well, it depends on what day of the week it is. I'll just put this in there and then I'll tell you about my daily routine. So, um, every 2 weeks I go to Manchester to do a live ITV show. Don't, don't think you're going to see me because it's midnight to 3 AM. I do this live. So I do a full day at work and then jump on a train to Manchester. But in effect, we've bought airtime from ITV directly, of course, and we, we basically structure a show. We make a show which is kind of like QVC. So shopping— I was wondering, but you have to do it live because you can say, oh gosh, well, I can— Mrs. Smith is calling. Who's watching? You would be amazed how many people are watching, everything from nurses to firemen to policemen to Amazon warehouse workers, people that can't sleep through the night, menopausal ladies can't sleep, elderly people, pregnant, breastfeeding, breastfeeding mother. There are a lot of people. I did years on QVC and it's exactly the same. You can— you, you, you'd be amazed. So you're watching— I then go back to the— you must enjoy that, Jane. I think you'd quite enjoy that. I do enjoy it. I get to work with these lovely presenters. I love cooking the food and actually showing people how to do it. Lovely, fantastic. But you're such a natural on TV. I mean, I've seen lots of your— Apart from that first ad when I was the Stepford Wife. I know. I'm never gonna live that down. Do you know what's very clear with you? You have a very good handle on your values and your standards and what's important to you. And I think that sounds like it's driven a lot of everything you do. But to know to turn up at that time of night. Yes. And then I go back to my hotel, which is the Premier at Manchester Piccadilly. Brilliant. Sometimes I see people in there, I've stayed in there. I've often stayed in the Days Inn on the M1. Just, I mean, literally some of them, people are like, what's it like? It's like, it's just me and all the, like, motorway service workers in their yellow jackets, and I'm just popping in. I worry because of course I go out quite dolled up with my suitcase at about 10 PM. And I think, oh golly, I wonder what people think I'm doing when I arrive back at 3:30 AM. They must wonder what on earth she's doing. And then I will get the train back and I'll do a day of work in London, but that's only once every 2 weeks. So my normal day, I get up, quite often bring my husband a coffee in bed— not always, but quite often, just in case he's listening. Um, I have a dog who I love. I do a workout either with the dogs— I always work out— let the dog sleep on the bed? Well, only when my husband's away. Now I don't want my husband to listen to this. Um, and then, uh, or I walk the dog, and then I get to my desk about 8:15 maybe. All my children are grown up now, but prior to that there was a school run to squeeze in as well. I always get a coffee at the same place on the way to work. I'm a creature of habit, and I basically kind of don't practice what I preach here. I then sit at my desk for about 8 hours and barely move. Where's your office, Jane? It's in Fulham. Okay, okay. Didn't use— we've been everywhere, but we've settled in Fulham. My aura ring will tell me I need to move. I have a Jane plan for lunch every day. Uh, the whole office eats Jane plan. Then I'll leave the office depending on what day of the week it is, and I'll do another dog walk. And then I go home, I have a lovely supper with my husband, I'll talk to various girlfriends, and then I'll go to bed. Quite boring really, isn't it? What a horribly wonderful life you lead. That's a lovely life. It's not very exciting. I don't— I'm always being invited to events and I can never attend. You strike me as being a very happy person, very positive person. Yeah, well, I'm lucky, I'm blessed. Yes. I want to ask you about your mentoring of young women entrepreneurs. So I haven't actively gone out to do this, but people seem to come to me normally through word of mouth, if I'm really honest. I'm not advertising my services or anything. And by the way, I would also mentor men, it just doesn't— just no men want me to mentor them, I assume. So I, I don't I don't have a structure or anything like that, but I do like sitting down, having a good chat, allowing them to get everything off their chest. I love ideas, I love new ideas, I love seeing people thrive, I love seeing people follow their passion. But what I do do, which might be a bit headmistress-like— I don't know if you'll mention this or not because I've had no training in this. Yes, I've no training in anything apart from nutrition— is I do say, right, so this— I follow up with an email and say, right, we discussed this, this, this, and this. So by the time we next meet— and I try and meet them monthly, I normally meet them in a coffee shop or something. I think it would be really good if you've done XYZ, and by the way, if you could also do A, B, and C, that would be the bonus. And then we can move on to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, which we can discuss at the next meeting. So I always give them a goal because I think it's a bit like weight loss, actually. I think when you're working alone, it's really— it's easy to say, oh, just go— I just go to the gym, or just popped out to the shops, I just cook a meal for the kids. It's easy to lose focus. So I think it's good to have someone saying, now the next step for you would be, um, let's, let's focus on getting that typo sorted on the website and that sort of thing. You do it just because you're a nice person. Yeah, I don't charge for it. No, just top 2 tips for entrepreneurs, men or women, young up-and-coming entrepreneurs. Give them something to take away. If you give it your life, it will work despite any pitfalls along there. It will work, but you've got to be all in. My second one, golly, what am I— I would say something boring like get an accountant if you can't do that yourself. Because money matters. Um, yeah, I would probably say, but most people I think a bit more savvy than me probably would have got an account. Jane, we have come to the end of the podcast. You're on death row because you have been naughty, which is— I— it's hard to believe, but you have been naughty, Jane. And actually, I can see you probably are naughty. What is your last meal? So I was discussing this in the office, and I was saying, should I say a Jane Plan lasagna? They're like, no, you can't say that. So then I said, well, Maybe I could just drink my last meal and have a nice bottle of rosé or something like that. No, you're about to die, sweetie. Well, that's what I thought. Oh, I thought you're about to die. I know, but I was thinking rosé. We're thinking more fish and chips. Yeah, I think so as well. Go on, be really naughty. Come on, throw caution to the wind. I probably would have an Indian meal, actually. Lovely. I love Indian food. I love Indian food. Yes, and I'd probably have like lots of different pulses and lentils and chicken tikka masala and Lots of poppadoms with loads of mango chutney. Brilliant. I'd probably have something like that. And then onion bhaji. That's lovely. That's probably what I would have. Yeah. And just before we say goodbye, we have a little saying that we say at the end of the podcast. Oh, and it's something that we have learned from interviewing so many wonderful guests like you on Entrepreneurs Worldwide. If you're a budding entrepreneur, the thing that Ros and I have learned the most from all of our entrepreneurs entrepreneurs is that? Give it a thousand days. Jane, Michelle, thank you so much for coming on Entrepreneurs Worldwide. You have been an absolute joy to interview. Thank you, and we have loved it. Thank you for coming on Entrepreneurs Worldwide. Can you do us a favor? Can you hit that follow and subscribe button? You can find us anywhere where you get your podcasts on Entrepreneurs Worldwide, and there'll be a new episode every Wednesday at 5 AM.