What is Transistor's secret weapon?

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,320 Justin: Michael, I can't do a podcast with you. I just 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:08,080 decided. It's done. We're done. I'll say, man, we got geese in 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:08,560 the background. 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,160 What is going on here? 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,280 Michael: Oh gosh. It's my door. Sorry. One second. Sorry about 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:13,760 the geese. 7 00:00:15,185 --> 00:00:18,545 Justin: God. Chris is gonna have a ball editing this one. 8 00:00:32,390 --> 00:00:36,470 Welcome to Build Your SaaS. This is the podcast where we 9 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:41,190 chronicle the journey of building transistor.fm, a 10 00:00:40,245 --> 00:00:44,405 podcast hosting platform. I'm Justin Jackson, one of the co 11 00:00:44,405 --> 00:00:45,125 founders. 12 00:00:45,445 --> 00:00:51,205 And today, I want to talk about what our secret weapon is at 13 00:00:51,205 --> 00:00:55,520 transistor, something that sets us apart. And to do that, I've 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,440 got on the show Helen Ryles. 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Helen: Hi. 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,080 Justin: And I've got Michael Green. 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,120 Michael: Hi, everyone. 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,440 Justin: And Helen and Michael do customer success here at 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:11,495 Transistor. Helen was our first hire ever, 2019. Is that right, 20 00:01:11,495 --> 00:01:11,815 Helen? 21 00:01:11,815 --> 00:01:17,095 Helen: Yeah. I started part time in 2019. And I think it's 2021 22 00:01:17,335 --> 00:01:18,775 when I joined the team full time. 23 00:01:18,775 --> 00:01:22,535 Justin: And what's interesting, I think, is I mean, when Jon 24 00:01:22,535 --> 00:01:26,050 Buda and I started Transistor, I was doing almost all of our 25 00:01:26,050 --> 00:01:29,490 customer support just like I'd wake up at six in the morning, 26 00:01:29,490 --> 00:01:32,770 start answering live chats, and just answer live chats all day. 27 00:01:33,330 --> 00:01:36,930 Eventually, said, Jon, I need some help. And then Helen came 28 00:01:36,930 --> 00:01:41,645 on and started helping us. And then I I fully extricated my 29 00:01:41,885 --> 00:01:43,325 extricated? Extra 30 00:01:43,805 --> 00:01:43,965 Michael: Yeah. 31 00:01:43,965 --> 00:01:48,205 Justin: I fully removed myself when we hired Michael in when 32 00:01:48,205 --> 00:01:50,205 did you start working? Has it been two years now? 33 00:01:50,525 --> 00:01:54,045 Michael: Part time in 2023 and then full time in 2024. 34 00:01:54,170 --> 00:01:58,490 Justin: Good Lord. Good Lord. So time is just going super fast. 35 00:01:59,130 --> 00:02:03,930 Before we get into why I think customer success is our secret 36 00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:06,330 weapon and really one of the main things that sets us apart, 37 00:02:06,705 --> 00:02:09,665 I was wondering if you could both go into your background. 38 00:02:09,665 --> 00:02:10,945 Like, how did you get here? 39 00:02:10,945 --> 00:02:14,785 What did you do before Transistor? Helen, do you want 40 00:02:14,785 --> 00:02:17,265 to start us off? What what's your what's your background? 41 00:02:17,265 --> 00:02:20,545 Helen: Yeah. Sure. So it's a a long and winding road to get to 42 00:02:20,545 --> 00:02:25,510 this point. Yeah, so my original undergraduate degree was 43 00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:30,710 computer science information systems. Spent a long time as an 44 00:02:30,710 --> 00:02:34,550 IT field engineer, became IT manager, project manager. 45 00:02:36,075 --> 00:02:41,275 Worked in a lot of educational institutions, colleges, schools, 46 00:02:41,835 --> 00:02:47,435 and also the housing industry as well. And then over the past 47 00:02:47,435 --> 00:02:53,410 five or six years, a little bit before joining Transistor, I was 48 00:02:53,410 --> 00:02:57,730 working with a few different startups. And yeah, that kind of 49 00:02:57,730 --> 00:03:00,530 led to the world of SaaS, and here I am. 50 00:03:00,530 --> 00:03:04,005 Justin: And here you are. Here you are. Michael, what's your 51 00:03:04,005 --> 00:03:04,645 background? 52 00:03:04,645 --> 00:03:07,925 Michael: Well, I actually spent over a decade working in retail 53 00:03:07,925 --> 00:03:14,565 groceries for a big grocery chain. I won't say which one. I 54 00:03:14,565 --> 00:03:19,500 did that for over ten years. Was in store management. I took an 55 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,940 MBA because I was going to keep going with that, and then they 56 00:03:22,940 --> 00:03:24,540 asked me to move to Prince Rupert. 57 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:32,380 I said no. I was looking for a new career at that point, which 58 00:03:32,380 --> 00:03:36,495 wouldn't move me to Prince Rupert. I took a web development 59 00:03:36,495 --> 00:03:44,335 bootcamp in 2022. Yeah, in my 30s, transitioned into tech. 60 00:03:45,455 --> 00:03:49,790 Then we met up locally at some local tech events, and this 61 00:03:49,790 --> 00:03:53,790 position sort of drew on my background in tech and customer 62 00:03:53,790 --> 00:03:56,990 service and things like that and sort of came together. 63 00:03:57,150 --> 00:04:00,385 Justin: Mhmm. That's right. That's right. I think this is 64 00:04:00,385 --> 00:04:04,945 what really sets Transistor apart is I got my start in the 65 00:04:04,945 --> 00:04:09,585 tech industry doing customer service. My boss, Greg Oldring, 66 00:04:09,585 --> 00:04:14,385 who's now he's now a Transistor customer, was just so 67 00:04:15,890 --> 00:04:20,050 instructive to me on how to build a great business based on 68 00:04:20,050 --> 00:04:21,330 good customer service. 69 00:04:21,330 --> 00:04:25,090 And he took it so seriously. Everybody at that company from 70 00:04:25,090 --> 00:04:30,225 the CEO, the whole team, engineers did customer service, 71 00:04:30,225 --> 00:04:34,785 and some of us were doing more than others. But he just showed 72 00:04:34,785 --> 00:04:41,460 me, this is how you win. This is how you set yourself apart. I 73 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:44,820 don't think I'm And not good at everything, but one thing I I 74 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:47,780 think I have been good at is finding great people for our 75 00:04:47,780 --> 00:04:50,500 team that just operate at a really high level. 76 00:04:51,380 --> 00:04:54,500 And folks are continually surprised that we're able to 77 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:59,615 serve, I think, about 36,000 users with a team of six people 78 00:04:59,615 --> 00:05:05,615 and really with you two doing the bulk of customer service. So 79 00:05:05,615 --> 00:05:08,255 let's start with you, Helen. What do you think what do you 80 00:05:08,255 --> 00:05:11,830 think sets our philosophy apart? How are we different than a lot 81 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:16,390 of other SaaS companies that do customer success? Like, what are 82 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:17,430 we doing different? 83 00:05:18,070 --> 00:05:23,190 Helen: Yeah. I think to start with, I think the bar with 84 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:27,005 customer support is really quite low across the industry. 85 00:05:27,005 --> 00:05:28,365 Justin: Oh, it's in the basement. 86 00:05:30,045 --> 00:05:33,645 Helen: Just be mindful to kind of aim to be better than the 87 00:05:33,645 --> 00:05:36,365 general standard. So if companies are setting the 88 00:05:36,365 --> 00:05:38,365 standard of getting back to people in three to five business 89 00:05:38,365 --> 00:05:42,540 days, you know, we don't have to necessarily adopt that. We can 90 00:05:43,180 --> 00:05:45,980 see what margin we've got. We can set our own standards. We 91 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:50,700 can try to offer something that's better than the norm. 92 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:54,125 And people seem to be overwhelmingly surprised that 93 00:05:54,125 --> 00:05:58,445 that's something that people can choose to offer and that 94 00:05:58,445 --> 00:06:02,845 customer support is a key part of what people are paying for. 95 00:06:03,005 --> 00:06:07,750 That sort of helpful, friendly advice that, rather than sort of 96 00:06:07,750 --> 00:06:11,590 leaving people unsure of what they're doing or having somebody 97 00:06:11,590 --> 00:06:14,790 to be able to answer questions quite quickly makes a big 98 00:06:14,790 --> 00:06:17,590 difference and is a key part of retaining customers as well. 99 00:06:17,590 --> 00:06:20,950 Justin: I mean, it's the first Here's what always kind of blows 100 00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:26,925 my mind. Customer success and that live chat is often the 101 00:06:26,925 --> 00:06:31,325 first experience somebody has with your company. And so the 102 00:06:31,325 --> 00:06:38,700 idea of, like, offshoring that to entry level poorly paid 103 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:43,420 people or giving it to some sort of AI that's going to help you 104 00:06:43,420 --> 00:06:48,045 figure things out, it just has never made sense to me. Michael, 105 00:06:48,045 --> 00:06:51,405 you often tell me about how people coming to Transistor from 106 00:06:51,405 --> 00:06:55,965 other our competitors, you know, they have stories. Can you share 107 00:06:55,965 --> 00:06:59,405 some of those or some of those experiences, how people react to 108 00:06:59,405 --> 00:07:03,930 our customer success as compared to what they've experienced 109 00:07:03,930 --> 00:07:04,570 before? 110 00:07:04,570 --> 00:07:06,410 Michael: Well, think often when people are coming from 111 00:07:06,410 --> 00:07:11,050 elsewhere, there's pain points. And so just getting someone 112 00:07:11,290 --> 00:07:14,730 getting a person immediately, there's probably a bit of 113 00:07:14,730 --> 00:07:21,155 relief. And yeah, I think the other side that say AI can't 114 00:07:21,155 --> 00:07:25,955 replace is there is an emotional side to podcasting, to using a 115 00:07:25,955 --> 00:07:31,470 product even if it's an online product, to creation, and we 116 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:35,870 help on that side as well. Like people are often excited or 117 00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:39,390 nervous or panicking or something feels urgent and we 118 00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:42,510 can help alleviate all of that emotional side. It's not just 119 00:07:42,510 --> 00:07:43,790 about questions and answers. 120 00:07:44,265 --> 00:07:47,785 Justin: Yeah. And the other thing that both of you have done 121 00:07:48,425 --> 00:07:53,385 is, Helen, you do a lot of the onboarding demos for folks, when 122 00:07:53,385 --> 00:07:56,665 they request like, big companies might request the demo. You're 123 00:07:56,665 --> 00:08:00,770 doing those over Zoom. And Michael, you are doing a Zoom 124 00:08:00,770 --> 00:08:04,770 call with anybody who signs up that wants one. Maybe we'll 125 00:08:04,770 --> 00:08:05,570 start with you, Helen. 126 00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:08,850 What have you learned by doing those demo calls just about 127 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:12,450 people? What motivates them to start a podcast? The emotional 128 00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:15,275 side of podcasting? What are you seeing on that front? 129 00:08:15,275 --> 00:08:19,595 Helen: Yeah, I think it's really good to connect with people when 130 00:08:19,595 --> 00:08:23,435 they're in that starting phase. They've got a lot of unanswered 131 00:08:23,435 --> 00:08:26,235 questions, and just to kind of see the excitement that people 132 00:08:26,235 --> 00:08:29,430 have. We kind of sometimes, in support, we're relatively 133 00:08:29,430 --> 00:08:32,950 removed away from people and their personal motivations, 134 00:08:32,950 --> 00:08:35,270 whether they want to keep in touch with a friend, whether 135 00:08:35,270 --> 00:08:39,830 they want to build their authority in their industry. 136 00:08:40,470 --> 00:08:43,515 There's not always just one single reason to start a 137 00:08:43,515 --> 00:08:47,835 podcast, whether that's monetization or improving public 138 00:08:47,835 --> 00:08:51,595 speaking skills or getting to meet with people in their 139 00:08:51,595 --> 00:08:54,235 industry and a podcast is the way to do that. There's lots of 140 00:08:54,235 --> 00:08:56,235 different reasons why people choose to start a podcast. 141 00:08:56,850 --> 00:09:01,250 And those are kind of brought to the forefront during demo calls. 142 00:09:01,410 --> 00:09:03,970 Just getting to know people's background, where they're kind 143 00:09:03,970 --> 00:09:07,970 of hoping to get to, what success looks like for them. And 144 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:11,375 it's not always monetization. So yeah, it's nice to kind of 145 00:09:11,375 --> 00:09:16,095 remember why people are doing this. And also the kind of 146 00:09:16,095 --> 00:09:18,415 common sticking points where people get stuck, where people 147 00:09:18,415 --> 00:09:19,535 feel stressed. 148 00:09:19,695 --> 00:09:23,935 And just to have somebody to be able to walk through that with 149 00:09:23,935 --> 00:09:27,530 you makes them realize that they can get started really quickly. 150 00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:29,770 Justin: Yeah, yeah. And what about you, Michael? What have 151 00:09:29,770 --> 00:09:31,850 you learned by doing those Zoom calls? 152 00:09:31,850 --> 00:09:35,450 Michael: I think the thing that tickles me most of the time is 153 00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:39,210 remembering how global we are. So obviously we're largely based 154 00:09:39,210 --> 00:09:43,395 in North America, but I jump on calls with people in Australia 155 00:09:43,395 --> 00:09:48,995 and New Zealand and all around the world. Helen, I'm sure, with 156 00:09:48,995 --> 00:09:54,435 people across Europe. It's actually just fun to see what 157 00:09:54,435 --> 00:09:57,800 people are making. I like hearing, especially first time 158 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,040 podcasters or obviously we get a lot of people switch to us when 159 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,160 they're starting a second or third show and just what they're 160 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,920 making is super interesting. 161 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,025 But I suppose the other thing is it's nice to jump on those calls 162 00:10:11,025 --> 00:10:14,785 because people are pushing the boundaries of what Transistor 163 00:10:14,785 --> 00:10:18,065 can do, and they're really pushing the API as far as it can 164 00:10:18,065 --> 00:10:21,905 go and every little feature we have as far as it can go. So I 165 00:10:21,905 --> 00:10:24,545 often find I learned something on those calls because I'm 166 00:10:24,545 --> 00:10:29,820 hearing about what can be done elsewhere or, you know, find a 167 00:10:29,820 --> 00:10:31,820 way that we can do something at Transistor that perhaps we 168 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,100 weren't aware that we could do. 169 00:10:33,260 --> 00:10:37,740 Justin: Mhmm. The thing I always try to remind myself of is what 170 00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:42,275 it feels like to be a new creator putting themselves out 171 00:10:42,275 --> 00:10:44,675 there for the first time. I mean, even Michael before this 172 00:10:44,675 --> 00:10:47,395 call, you were kind of joking like, you're not sure how 173 00:10:47,395 --> 00:10:50,835 comfortable you feel being recorded. Yeah. And I I think 174 00:10:50,835 --> 00:10:52,355 that's pretty universal. 175 00:10:52,835 --> 00:10:56,280 And there's something about being with somebody on a Zoom 176 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,960 call and you just immediately see the emotionality of what 177 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,880 about to experience. Helen, you mentioned sticking points both, 178 00:11:07,905 --> 00:11:10,465 I'm I'm assuming you meant, like, emotional sticking points, 179 00:11:10,465 --> 00:11:13,665 but also with the product and also just in terms of unknowns. 180 00:11:13,665 --> 00:11:16,065 What are some common ones that you've seen? 181 00:11:16,065 --> 00:11:19,745 Helen: Yeah. Just to kind of an expectation around how long it 182 00:11:19,745 --> 00:11:24,330 sets takes to set up a podcast. You know, if somebody, you know, 183 00:11:24,330 --> 00:11:28,090 I've heard of people on demo calls saying, right, well, it's 184 00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:30,970 April now, we want to launch by August, is that possible? It's 185 00:11:30,970 --> 00:11:33,130 like, well, you could launch today if you wanted to, if 186 00:11:33,130 --> 00:11:38,405 you've got, you know, ready to go. And yeah, just kind of the 187 00:11:38,645 --> 00:11:40,485 things that are needed to get started. 188 00:11:42,645 --> 00:11:46,085 Just having kind of a workflow or a plan, like a publishing and 189 00:11:46,085 --> 00:11:50,690 a promotion plan. And also the expectations around how 190 00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:54,290 distribution works. People kind of don't necessarily understand 191 00:11:54,290 --> 00:12:00,210 how RSS feed works, or how podcast apps will pick content 192 00:12:00,210 --> 00:12:03,715 up from RSS feeds, and just kind of explaining the kind of 193 00:12:03,715 --> 00:12:06,995 fundamental technologies that podcast hosting is built upon 194 00:12:07,555 --> 00:12:12,435 just gives people just a bit of an insight into managing their 195 00:12:12,435 --> 00:12:15,315 expectations and how long things should take, really. 196 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:19,380 Justin: Yeah. It's funny how like, again, we've been working 197 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:22,980 here for a while, and we started off when we got into podcasting 198 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:26,660 not knowing anything. And now it's just second nature to us. 199 00:12:26,660 --> 00:12:30,020 And it's funny how we just assume naturally that everyone 200 00:12:30,020 --> 00:12:31,785 knows what we know. Right? 201 00:12:31,785 --> 00:12:35,545 And then you see that in the calls like, oh, wait a second. 202 00:12:35,625 --> 00:12:39,465 Like, we're a lot of people just need a lot of background 203 00:12:39,465 --> 00:12:42,985 information to get them up to speed. What kinds of things have 204 00:12:42,985 --> 00:12:46,700 you noticed, Michael? Any kind of emotional things or things 205 00:12:46,780 --> 00:12:50,140 that people are feeling as they're getting ready to launch 206 00:12:50,140 --> 00:12:50,540 a show? 207 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:54,300 Michael: Oh, I think it's that erring to publish the first 208 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:58,140 episode. Because we know that you publish that first episode 209 00:12:58,140 --> 00:13:00,395 and it goes to the feed, but no one's looking at the feed, 210 00:13:00,395 --> 00:13:05,435 you've only just created it. But this idea that people live to 211 00:13:05,435 --> 00:13:08,715 the world and there's something that feels official about being 212 00:13:08,715 --> 00:13:12,075 on Spotify and being on Apple, and you can be there within a 213 00:13:12,075 --> 00:13:16,050 few hours. I think it's that idea that you need to be people 214 00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:19,090 sort of feel like they need to be dressed in their Sunday best, 215 00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:23,970 you know, like they need to turn up to play, and there's fear of 216 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:28,555 judgment. And then that's where really the journey just begins 217 00:13:28,555 --> 00:13:31,195 because then you're out there, but you've got to get people 218 00:13:31,195 --> 00:13:32,155 listening to it. 219 00:13:32,395 --> 00:13:37,195 But yeah, I think there's a feeling that they have to turn 220 00:13:37,195 --> 00:13:39,860 up looking and doing their best. And you don't necessarily have 221 00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:40,900 to when you're just getting going. 222 00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:44,900 Justin: Another common one I hear all the time is the fear of 223 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:48,260 judgment. Like what if my coworkers see this? What if my 224 00:13:48,260 --> 00:13:52,515 family sees this? What if my friends see this? I even have my 225 00:13:52,515 --> 00:13:56,755 cohost on the panel, Brian Castle, says he doesn't want any 226 00:13:56,755 --> 00:14:00,195 of his people from the real world to see his podcast. 227 00:14:00,195 --> 00:14:03,075 Like, he doesn't want his family to watch it or his friends. He 228 00:14:03,075 --> 00:14:05,555 just wants, like, you know, anonymous people on the Internet 229 00:14:05,555 --> 00:14:09,960 to watch it. And I again, I've gotten over that now, like, 230 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,920 because I've been doing this so long. And the stakes, it's just 231 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,440 so helpful to be reminded the stakes for people. Like, for a 232 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,345 lot of people, this is like jumping across a a gap, you 233 00:14:23,345 --> 00:14:25,505 know, like jumping over a cliff. 234 00:14:26,305 --> 00:14:30,065 And just the courage it takes to say, I'm gonna put myself out 235 00:14:30,065 --> 00:14:34,625 there, it can feel real. And you don't really experience that 236 00:14:34,625 --> 00:14:38,060 until you're, like, with people talking to them. 237 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:41,180 Helen: Yeah. Yeah, I think one thing I notice as well is people 238 00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:44,220 hold themselves back with an expectation that it's got to be 239 00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:47,660 perfect from episode one. Whereas we tend to recommend 240 00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:51,515 kind of incremental improvement. So maybe the first episode isn't 241 00:14:51,515 --> 00:14:56,155 on the best microphone. Maybe you don't have a podcast website 242 00:14:56,155 --> 00:14:57,675 on episodes two and three. 243 00:14:57,675 --> 00:15:02,075 Maybe you kind of add some intro music at some point in the first 244 00:15:02,075 --> 00:15:04,955 10 episodes. That kind of incremental improvement is a 245 00:15:04,955 --> 00:15:08,530 good mindset to have. So you're kind of not paralyzed by 246 00:15:08,770 --> 00:15:12,130 overwhelm and getting started. That at least if you can get to 247 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:15,810 three episodes, there's so many shows that we see that kind of 248 00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:20,530 falter around that one, two episode mark. And I think if you 249 00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:23,055 can kind of get into that mindset that things don't have 250 00:15:23,055 --> 00:15:26,495 to be perfect from day one, you can continue to learn and 251 00:15:26,495 --> 00:15:28,975 continue to improve as your show grows. 252 00:15:29,135 --> 00:15:32,815 Michael: Yeah. Yeah, mean, whatever we can do to solve 253 00:15:32,815 --> 00:15:36,010 problems to keep it fun for people really, I think just 254 00:15:36,010 --> 00:15:39,050 remind them it's supposed to be fun and it's self expression, 255 00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:43,130 and if we can solve some pain points then you can just keep 256 00:15:43,130 --> 00:15:44,330 having fun with it, right? 257 00:15:44,330 --> 00:15:48,010 Justin: Yeah. The other thing I think there's a lot of SaaS 258 00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:51,585 founders that listen to this, and there's all sorts of 259 00:15:51,585 --> 00:15:54,065 different ways, you know, people say, well, this is an 260 00:15:54,065 --> 00:15:58,385 engineering led organization or we're a design led company. And 261 00:15:58,385 --> 00:16:01,985 the thing I've always and Jon and I have always been really 262 00:16:01,985 --> 00:16:04,945 strong on with Transistor is that we want to be a customer 263 00:16:05,025 --> 00:16:09,180 led company, which is really why we've elevated this customer 264 00:16:09,180 --> 00:16:12,540 success role. Like, we have two people on customer success, two 265 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:16,220 people on marketing and growth, and two engineers. It is, like, 266 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:19,180 such a key part of who we are at Transistor. 267 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:23,795 How do you think, Helen, that translates, into what we do at 268 00:16:23,875 --> 00:16:27,875 Transistor and maybe what other startups can learn from it being 269 00:16:27,875 --> 00:16:30,915 a customer led company? 270 00:16:30,915 --> 00:16:32,835 Helen: Yeah. I think one thing that we do really well at 271 00:16:32,835 --> 00:16:37,040 Transistor is our feedback loop between customers providing us 272 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,840 feedback on what they want to see in the product and the 273 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,680 customer success being actually involved in being their voice. 274 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,800 We are careful to collect that information, to discuss it on a 275 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,375 weekly basis. We keep those records. We surprise people 276 00:16:52,375 --> 00:16:55,175 going back to people six months later to say, we built the 277 00:16:55,175 --> 00:16:58,135 feature that you suggested back last October. 278 00:16:58,135 --> 00:17:01,815 And I think there's a lot of organizations that treat 279 00:17:01,815 --> 00:17:06,170 customer success as a one way, sort of one directional, 280 00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:12,490 transactional kind of offering and there isn't that kind of two 281 00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:16,810 way absorption of what people want to see in the product, 282 00:17:16,810 --> 00:17:19,105 where it should go in the future. Seems to be kind of 283 00:17:19,105 --> 00:17:22,065 siloed in other organizations, there's kind of leadership 284 00:17:22,065 --> 00:17:25,185 who've got a sort of a vision of where the product's going, and 285 00:17:25,185 --> 00:17:27,985 that may or may not align with what people are actually asking 286 00:17:27,985 --> 00:17:33,330 for. I think we put a lot of attention in making sure that we 287 00:17:33,330 --> 00:17:38,210 do customer surveys, we gather feedback, we segment customers 288 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:42,770 based on the features they want to see. We let popular features 289 00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:46,965 bubble up to the top. We prioritize our quarterly feature 290 00:17:46,965 --> 00:17:50,245 builds based on the volume of requests we get, and we take 291 00:17:50,245 --> 00:17:51,765 people's feedback seriously. 292 00:17:52,245 --> 00:17:54,245 Justin: Yeah, anything else to add to that, Michael? 293 00:17:54,245 --> 00:17:57,205 Michael: I think, yeah, I echo that. I mean, it would be so 294 00:17:57,205 --> 00:18:00,165 easy to just have an email address where people could mail 295 00:18:00,165 --> 00:18:03,370 in feedback and you could pretend to satisfy yourself and 296 00:18:03,370 --> 00:18:06,010 go, oh, we're receiving feedback, we care about what 297 00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:10,570 people think. But when you're actively having conversations 298 00:18:10,570 --> 00:18:12,890 with people in chat or you're jumping on a video call with 299 00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:15,050 them and you're hearing that live and they're screen sharing 300 00:18:15,785 --> 00:18:19,385 either the feature they're looking for or something that's 301 00:18:19,385 --> 00:18:24,425 not quite working, then it's that much more personal. So 302 00:18:26,185 --> 00:18:28,985 yeah, I think we're going above and beyond there. 303 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,640 Justin: Yeah. Well, that brings up the topic of AI. And one 304 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,600 thing, kind of my universal theory right now is AI is a very 305 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,760 useful tool, and we we there may be things we decide ways we 306 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,185 decide to use it in customer success, but it feels like so 307 00:18:46,185 --> 00:18:50,745 many people are just hungry for human connection. Helen, what's 308 00:18:50,745 --> 00:18:56,105 kind of your take on, you know, living in an AI world and then 309 00:18:56,105 --> 00:18:58,905 giving customer success? I'm sure you've seen a lot of people 310 00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:01,450 who think you're a chatbot and things like that. 311 00:19:01,450 --> 00:19:03,450 Helen: Yeah, we've definitely seen an increase in the 312 00:19:03,450 --> 00:19:07,610 expectation that people reach out to support. They reach out 313 00:19:07,610 --> 00:19:13,050 to support in the way they would speak to a AI tool or chatbot. 314 00:19:13,935 --> 00:19:17,295 So it's always good to remember that if you're dealing with real 315 00:19:17,295 --> 00:19:22,495 people on the other end. But yeah, I think we can use AI 316 00:19:22,495 --> 00:19:25,055 tools. They could be internal tools. 317 00:19:25,055 --> 00:19:28,330 They could be things that help us improve customer success, 318 00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:33,050 update articles in a timely way, to have automated checks to flag 319 00:19:33,050 --> 00:19:38,570 things that we want to cast an eye over. But we don't 320 00:19:38,570 --> 00:19:42,385 necessarily have to present that kind of barrier and that level 321 00:19:42,385 --> 00:19:50,785 of friction by insisting that our customers interact with an 322 00:19:50,785 --> 00:19:59,220 AI bot directly. Also one thing as well is, I've seen with some 323 00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:02,260 organizations that kind of present an AI chatbot on the 324 00:20:02,260 --> 00:20:08,260 front end, they may have some live agents at some point where 325 00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:12,195 you can go through to a human team member. But what people 326 00:20:12,195 --> 00:20:15,395 tend to receive is a more frustrated customer. If you're 327 00:20:15,395 --> 00:20:17,955 forcing customers to jump through those hoops just to get 328 00:20:17,955 --> 00:20:20,595 through to a human, the interaction that is going to be 329 00:20:20,595 --> 00:20:23,635 between customer and support agents is going to be worse for 330 00:20:23,635 --> 00:20:23,795 it. 331 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:28,860 So just cut that out and go straight to helping people with 332 00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:31,420 their question as soon as we can with the quickest turnaround 333 00:20:31,420 --> 00:20:35,740 time possible. Then I think that leads to a more satisfied 334 00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:37,885 customer that stays with us longer. 335 00:20:37,885 --> 00:20:40,445 Justin: Yeah. Anything to add to that, Michael? 336 00:20:40,445 --> 00:20:44,605 Michael: Well, I still get confused for an AI chatbot. What 337 00:20:44,605 --> 00:20:44,845 do 338 00:20:44,845 --> 00:20:46,765 Justin: you do to prove that you're human? 339 00:20:48,045 --> 00:20:50,205 Michael: Write in incomplete sentences and then use 340 00:20:50,205 --> 00:20:53,990 punctuation. And then people go, Oh, he's real. 341 00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:55,430 Justin: This is a real person. 342 00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:59,270 Michael: Yeah. Use emojis, I find that helps. Yeah. But I was 343 00:20:59,270 --> 00:21:04,390 going to say, I think one of the other things live support ads 344 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:07,775 is, I know we like to think of ourselves and I think we're 345 00:21:07,775 --> 00:21:12,655 regarded as a product that is clean, intuitive, simple, easy 346 00:21:12,655 --> 00:21:17,295 to use, reliable, but inevitably, as with any SaaS 347 00:21:17,295 --> 00:21:21,720 company, there's going to be some hard edges. And I think 348 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,680 it's so much easier to forgive those from a customer point of 349 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,400 view when you can just jump in chat with someone or jump on a 350 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,320 call and solve it in ten minutes rather than waiting in a queue 351 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,125 or getting a generic response that doesn't actually help you. 352 00:21:38,685 --> 00:21:41,805 It's sort of people can forgive a lot as long as they can reach 353 00:21:41,805 --> 00:21:45,965 a real person and solve something quickly. Especially as 354 00:21:45,965 --> 00:21:50,690 we're sort of we like to roll out new features and test new 355 00:21:50,690 --> 00:21:55,010 features fairly quickly before sometimes having them perfected. 356 00:21:55,010 --> 00:21:57,010 So it helps on that side as well. 357 00:21:57,090 --> 00:22:01,010 Justin: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the the other thing I 358 00:22:01,010 --> 00:22:05,805 keep thinking about is, you know, it's the job of marketing 359 00:22:06,045 --> 00:22:10,685 to bring people to the website and get them to sign up. And, 360 00:22:10,685 --> 00:22:15,890 you know, we've been seeing mix of kind of the accumulated 361 00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:18,530 marketing efforts over since 2018. 362 00:22:18,530 --> 00:22:21,250 We're getting a lot more sign ups now. So sign ups are going 363 00:22:21,250 --> 00:22:25,730 up. But I've always seen customer success as this crucial 364 00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:29,730 integrated part of marketing and sales. Because once they arrive 365 00:22:29,730 --> 00:22:35,305 on the website, there's a big chat with us link, and you then 366 00:22:35,305 --> 00:22:39,705 become the salespeople. Like, you're the internal salespeople. 367 00:22:40,105 --> 00:22:43,705 And we convert an incredible like, our conversion rate from 368 00:22:43,705 --> 00:22:47,860 trial to paid is way above industry standard. We're at 75% 369 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:52,980 or something like that. Just an unbelievable conversion rate. 370 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:56,500 And we have lifetime value, meaning the customer sticks 371 00:22:56,500 --> 00:23:00,105 around way above industry average too. So Helen, do you 372 00:23:00,105 --> 00:23:03,705 want to talk about that, the sales part of the job, and just 373 00:23:03,705 --> 00:23:06,585 how you've seen that over the years? 374 00:23:06,665 --> 00:23:11,865 Helen: Yeah. I think a crucial thing is we demonstrate our 375 00:23:11,865 --> 00:23:15,570 support before people are customers. People can reach out 376 00:23:15,570 --> 00:23:19,490 to us. The same support we provide to you before you join 377 00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:22,370 us is the same support you will get when you actually are a 378 00:23:22,370 --> 00:23:28,370 customer regardless of the plan you're on. We have that kind of 379 00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:32,455 approach that we treat everybody with the same high level of 380 00:23:32,455 --> 00:23:33,575 customer support we would hope. 381 00:23:33,575 --> 00:23:36,695 We don't segment people based on the plans they're on. We don't 382 00:23:36,695 --> 00:23:41,735 have dedicated account managers because we optimize for, you 383 00:23:41,735 --> 00:23:45,175 know, team member can respond in the most timeliest manner 384 00:23:45,175 --> 00:23:50,650 really. So, yeah, I think we we kind of demonstrate and give 385 00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:57,050 that first experience. And that is kind of what converts people 386 00:23:57,050 --> 00:24:00,810 to go through to a free trial and stay with us after the free 387 00:24:00,810 --> 00:24:01,290 trial's ended. 388 00:24:01,625 --> 00:24:04,825 Justin: And and I'll just say from my side as a founder, like, 389 00:24:04,825 --> 00:24:09,625 this investment, I've only seen massive returns from this 390 00:24:09,625 --> 00:24:13,625 investment. So, like, in terms of a customer converting to 391 00:24:13,625 --> 00:24:16,900 paid, in terms of customers staying around a long time, in 392 00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:20,580 terms of a customer telling other people about transistor, 393 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:24,580 the investment in customer success is unmatched. Like, the 394 00:24:24,580 --> 00:24:29,235 the leverage you get from having just the highest, most 395 00:24:29,235 --> 00:24:34,435 professional, capable, friendly people on that team pays 396 00:24:34,435 --> 00:24:40,755 dividends for like ever. And it amplifies itself, right? There's 397 00:24:40,755 --> 00:24:41,395 leverage there? 398 00:24:41,395 --> 00:24:46,330 Michael: I think just in terms of acquisition, I see it quite 399 00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:50,330 often that maybe what we provide doesn't fully align with what 400 00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:55,130 someone's looking for. But the fact that they can reach a 401 00:24:55,130 --> 00:25:00,485 person and discuss it with a person is sufficient to make up 402 00:25:00,485 --> 00:25:04,645 that gap. And so we sign a lot of people up who go, they might 403 00:25:04,645 --> 00:25:09,365 be going, ah, I've got ABC, XY, but I'm missing Z, but actually 404 00:25:09,445 --> 00:25:12,805 you're the only company that I could jump on a call with or I 405 00:25:12,805 --> 00:25:18,140 could talk with live. And so that makes up for whatever might 406 00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:21,180 have been missing, so I'm going to go with you guys. And that's 407 00:25:21,180 --> 00:25:22,860 a pretty common experience I think. 408 00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:27,355 So it can make up for features. It can make up for lots of 409 00:25:27,355 --> 00:25:27,835 things. 410 00:25:27,995 --> 00:25:32,875 Justin: Yeah. Maybe we'll end on this because I think there's a 411 00:25:32,875 --> 00:25:36,875 lot of tech people or just people looking for jobs in tech 412 00:25:36,875 --> 00:25:41,590 right now. And you two are great examples of people that, you 413 00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:44,550 know, we hired you for a role, but then you've kept finding 414 00:25:44,550 --> 00:25:49,590 other ways to be helpful and useful and, I mean, just in all 415 00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:52,310 sorts of ways. Helen, do you wanna talk about that? Like, 416 00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:55,385 just maybe just talk about some of the other projects we've done 417 00:25:55,385 --> 00:25:58,905 together that you touched on the customer survey research. 418 00:25:58,985 --> 00:26:01,705 But just tell folks a few of the other things you've done in 419 00:26:01,705 --> 00:26:04,185 addition to the customer success role. 420 00:26:04,185 --> 00:26:09,350 Helen: We've done things like we go attend conferences. So I 421 00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:11,830 think it's quite useful sometimes if you know customers 422 00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:14,710 by name, people you see in chat and on email, and then you 423 00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:16,870 actually meet them in the real world, then they're kind of 424 00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:19,825 actually surprised that there's real people behind the thing 425 00:26:19,825 --> 00:26:22,385 that they use every day. So yeah, it's definitely kind of 426 00:26:22,385 --> 00:26:27,425 lots of projects we focused on. Going through kind of historical 427 00:26:27,425 --> 00:26:31,585 tickets, looking at, we've done a lot of in terms of analytics 428 00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:35,910 to see where kind of our busiest periods are. How can we better 429 00:26:35,910 --> 00:26:36,950 cover support? 430 00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:42,710 How can we look at our time to respond? What articles are we 431 00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:46,995 missing? What kind of articles get high hit rates? What's 432 00:26:46,995 --> 00:26:50,595 popular topics that people are interested in? You know, looking 433 00:26:50,595 --> 00:26:54,195 at all the videos that are doing well and how we can kind of fill 434 00:26:54,195 --> 00:26:58,355 the gaps in our guides and knowledge base. 435 00:26:58,355 --> 00:27:00,915 Justin: You've also helped me with reaching out to we've been 436 00:27:00,915 --> 00:27:05,450 partnering with YouTube influencers, and you've been a 437 00:27:05,450 --> 00:27:08,890 big part of that. You also took over the affiliate program for 438 00:27:08,890 --> 00:27:13,690 me. I was managing that as well. I one thing Helen did that I 439 00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:16,490 I've told other founders about this too, but she gave me a 440 00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:21,475 document of that was basically how best to work with me. And I 441 00:27:21,475 --> 00:27:24,035 just thought this was so brilliant because I was giving 442 00:27:24,035 --> 00:27:27,315 Helen all this work in the way that I like getting it. 443 00:27:27,475 --> 00:27:29,875 So you guys know me. I don't like to plan. I like to just 444 00:27:29,875 --> 00:27:32,720 kind of go from the seat of my pants. I really like kind of 445 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,720 broad open ended things like just go and meet people. You 446 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,120 know? 447 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,640 And Helen gave me this document that was like, okay. Here's the 448 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,295 kind of work I'm very good at. Here's the work I can do, but 449 00:27:45,295 --> 00:27:48,255 it's it's doesn't give me energy. It doesn't take away my 450 00:27:48,255 --> 00:27:50,015 energy. It's just like I'm good at it. 451 00:27:50,015 --> 00:27:52,815 I'm proficient at it. So it's like, here's what fires me up. 452 00:27:52,815 --> 00:27:56,255 Here's what I can do that is neutral. And then here's what 453 00:27:56,255 --> 00:28:02,020 drains me. And I found that so helpful in just even figuring 454 00:28:02,020 --> 00:28:06,180 out like what are some things I can invite Helen to do or to 455 00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:11,380 help me with that will fire her up or that she's uniquely 456 00:28:11,380 --> 00:28:11,940 equipped for. 457 00:28:12,565 --> 00:28:16,005 And I think we just keep finding new things. Right, Helen? Like, 458 00:28:16,005 --> 00:28:19,125 you're you're helping me well, you you really helped with 459 00:28:19,125 --> 00:28:22,885 retreat planning. I think that was another another big one. But 460 00:28:22,885 --> 00:28:26,400 anything to do with planning, Helen is just the queen. 461 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,360 She's the best. 462 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,400 Helen: Yeah, I think one of those sections in that document, 463 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,440 I think, was like, what is a step outside my comfort zone 464 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:39,195 that I also think is necessary for growth? So identifying you 465 00:28:39,195 --> 00:28:42,635 know, where I would like to step into, what am I interested in, 466 00:28:42,635 --> 00:28:48,555 you know, automations and processes and doing things I 467 00:28:48,555 --> 00:28:53,550 haven't done before, but kind of I've also given talks at 468 00:28:53,550 --> 00:28:58,590 universities and things that aren't necessarily my core skill 469 00:28:58,590 --> 00:29:03,470 set, but also I feel like there's a need to kind of 470 00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:08,405 constantly evolve the role and improve in that way. So even 471 00:29:08,405 --> 00:29:12,085 though if we think we're kind of setting a good standard, how can 472 00:29:12,085 --> 00:29:20,005 we continue to level our skills up and improve and manage our 473 00:29:20,005 --> 00:29:24,440 customer base as that also grows and scales? Yeah, because we 474 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,920 can't continue to remain the same. Otherwise we'll reach a 475 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,200 point where we haven't got the necessary kind of skills to 476 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,680 understand the customers or manage the workload or have some 477 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,400 kind of margin. 478 00:29:38,295 --> 00:29:42,615 So yeah, I think it's always been an enjoyable part of the 479 00:29:42,615 --> 00:29:46,535 role to have that core problem solving of customer support and 480 00:29:46,535 --> 00:29:49,815 also have these other projects that work alongside too. 481 00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:52,570 Justin: That you can do. Yeah. And Michael, you have the 482 00:29:52,570 --> 00:29:57,450 advantage in that you're here in Vernon, BC with me. And I I 483 00:29:57,450 --> 00:30:00,570 actually I mean, obviously, we're a remote team and we can't 484 00:30:00,570 --> 00:30:04,155 change this. But having you in Vernon has kind of opened up 485 00:30:04,155 --> 00:30:07,355 this other world to me, which is like you can knock on my door 486 00:30:07,595 --> 00:30:08,795 and just check-in. 487 00:30:08,955 --> 00:30:12,235 And I think some interesting ideas and projects have come out 488 00:30:12,235 --> 00:30:14,315 of that. Do you want to talk about some of that? 489 00:30:14,315 --> 00:30:17,530 Michael: I I think the the beauty of, like, an agile team 490 00:30:17,530 --> 00:30:21,530 like us, just six people, it feels like a long time ago now 491 00:30:21,530 --> 00:30:24,810 that I started in 2023, and don't tell anyone, but I didn't 492 00:30:24,810 --> 00:30:29,850 know anything about podcasting. I didn't know what an RSS feed 493 00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:34,545 was. So the learning curve for me was really steep, but then 494 00:30:34,545 --> 00:30:37,985 you do reach a point where you know it like the back of your 495 00:30:37,985 --> 00:30:41,025 hand, you know your space, and you can either stay in that 496 00:30:41,025 --> 00:30:44,225 space or you can expand the space. So I think the next thing 497 00:30:44,225 --> 00:30:47,400 for me was getting access to the marketing side, being able to 498 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,920 contribute articles there. Next was, I still remember the first 499 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,120 times I did demo calls and I felt really nervous because I'm 500 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,600 representing Transistor, I'm representing the product, and it 501 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,245 wasn't that long since I'd only just felt like I knew it inside 502 00:31:02,245 --> 00:31:03,045 and out. 503 00:31:03,525 --> 00:31:07,685 So yeah, doing calls, jumping on calls with customers, and then 504 00:31:07,845 --> 00:31:11,365 more recently contributing to the code base, helping out with 505 00:31:11,365 --> 00:31:15,100 little features, little cosmetic things. Yeah. Talking about that 506 00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:20,460 feedback loop with customers. Know, nowadays, if something is 507 00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:23,420 within a certain level of complexity, perhaps it's 508 00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:26,635 something I can take care of instead of having to get Jon and 509 00:31:26,635 --> 00:31:29,675 Jason involved. And that speeds that up. 510 00:31:29,755 --> 00:31:33,515 And yeah, I think as long as you're that sort of person, 511 00:31:33,515 --> 00:31:35,995 which I think all six of us are, where you're always looking to 512 00:31:35,995 --> 00:31:39,320 stay curious and stay interested and like a bit of a challenge, 513 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,680 then there's always something more to do. With six people and 514 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,280 small enough company, the left hand can see what the right hand 515 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,720 is doing and you can, Hey, can I help out with marketing? Can I 516 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,040 do a little bit of engineering stuff? Can I do some customer 517 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,745 success stuff? We have that sort of company and you and Jon lead 518 00:31:57,745 --> 00:32:02,865 that where you feel encouraged to do that. 519 00:32:02,945 --> 00:32:06,225 There's no ceiling really on what you can do as long as you 520 00:32:06,225 --> 00:32:08,770 have have the time and and the interest. 521 00:32:08,770 --> 00:32:15,330 Justin: Yeah. I I think there is a real skill in having the 522 00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:22,015 awareness and discernment to be able to go to, you know, the 523 00:32:22,015 --> 00:32:26,415 founder and identify some ideas. We've tried I'm talking about 524 00:32:26,415 --> 00:32:29,135 all three of us. We've tried some ideas that didn't work out. 525 00:32:29,135 --> 00:32:31,375 You know, we were like, oh, maybe I can do this. 526 00:32:31,375 --> 00:32:33,295 And it was like, ah, this doesn't really work. This 527 00:32:33,295 --> 00:32:38,080 doesn't really fit. That's okay. But there is something about 528 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,920 just going you know, like, Helen was like, well, hey. I can take 529 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,560 over this demo call thing. 530 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,845 I was like, oh, wow. Yeah. That would really free me up to do 531 00:32:48,845 --> 00:32:52,685 other things. Helen's saying, listen. You guys you and John 532 00:32:52,685 --> 00:32:54,685 suck at planning these retreats. 533 00:32:54,685 --> 00:33:00,700 I'll just take that over. Those kind of ideas, you know, they 534 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:06,220 really do help when somebody has the discernment and the courage 535 00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:09,740 to say, I think this is something you're struggling 536 00:33:09,740 --> 00:33:13,340 with. This is something I'm uniquely good at. And let me 537 00:33:13,340 --> 00:33:18,225 propose a solution. And I would say, you know, maybe I I would 538 00:33:18,225 --> 00:33:22,545 say, I don't know, three out of five or three out of six I agree 539 00:33:22,545 --> 00:33:23,905 with and work out. 540 00:33:23,905 --> 00:33:28,330 Right? And that's a pretty good so not everything, you know, you 541 00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:31,610 propose or the team members propose, I agree with or want to 542 00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:37,290 do. But it's a fairly high hit rate. And it's just so helpful 543 00:33:37,290 --> 00:33:43,195 to have those kinds of people. Is there is there any way 544 00:33:43,355 --> 00:33:45,115 because I'm just thinking about Gen Z. 545 00:33:45,115 --> 00:33:49,115 I'm thinking about the kids. How does that get trained? Like, how 546 00:33:49,115 --> 00:33:52,875 do you because it feels like they're just in a fog of war. 547 00:33:52,875 --> 00:33:55,830 Like, they can't see maybe you don't. Does that discernment 548 00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:57,270 just come through experience? 549 00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:59,030 What you think, Helen? 550 00:33:59,030 --> 00:34:02,310 Helen: That's a good question. I think it kind of comes from an 551 00:34:02,310 --> 00:34:07,030 awareness of having an overview of the team as a whole, what's 552 00:34:07,030 --> 00:34:10,465 on each person's plate, what kind of space and capacity 553 00:34:10,465 --> 00:34:14,385 you've got, and how can you best take something off somebody 554 00:34:14,385 --> 00:34:20,225 else's plate. And I think also we do a good job of, let's say 555 00:34:20,225 --> 00:34:24,380 we feel like we're reaching some kind of busy period in support 556 00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:29,500 or reaching capacity, we can come together and review how we 557 00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:34,140 can create this kind of margin and space in our time. And it's 558 00:34:34,140 --> 00:34:36,860 like, maybe we should start batching demo calls together on 559 00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:40,965 a certain day. Maybe we should streamline this process. 560 00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:44,725 What are we spending a lot of time explaining? How can we 561 00:34:44,725 --> 00:34:50,165 create things that enable us to continue without increasing that 562 00:34:50,165 --> 00:34:54,430 kind of level of stress? So it's like almost building the role 563 00:34:54,430 --> 00:34:57,550 that you want to work in rather than accepting the status quo. 564 00:34:57,550 --> 00:34:58,030 Michael: You 565 00:34:58,350 --> 00:35:01,070 Helen: have the tools and the knowledge and the support to be 566 00:35:01,070 --> 00:35:04,030 able to say, well, how can I make this role better? And then 567 00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:06,190 going ahead and seeing that through really. 568 00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:08,975 Justin: I think that's the key is how can I make this role 569 00:35:08,975 --> 00:35:12,255 better? How can I make the company better? How can I solve 570 00:35:12,255 --> 00:35:16,335 the boss's problems? These are all like like things that yeah. 571 00:35:16,335 --> 00:35:19,215 I just don't know how do you like, Michael, you've been a 572 00:35:19,215 --> 00:35:22,495 manager at the grocery chain with a lot of young people. 573 00:35:22,735 --> 00:35:26,150 Is there Is this something that's just people just have or 574 00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:29,270 can it be trained? Is there a way to like help young people 575 00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:29,670 get this? 576 00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:31,590 Michael: Yeah, was gonna say, I'm not sure I think of it in 577 00:35:31,590 --> 00:35:35,030 the context of a skill, a professional skill. Think it's 578 00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:38,195 more of a character train. I think you sort of identify 579 00:35:38,195 --> 00:35:42,675 people very quickly. Is this someone who's going to learn 580 00:35:42,675 --> 00:35:45,155 what they need to learn to do the job as it exists and then 581 00:35:45,155 --> 00:35:47,715 plateau? Or is this someone who's just going to stay 582 00:35:47,715 --> 00:35:49,715 interested and keep looking for new things? 583 00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:56,220 Because it might take more hours than you have when you start 584 00:35:56,220 --> 00:35:59,420 just to do the basic learning to be able to do the core 585 00:35:59,420 --> 00:36:02,380 functions. But then after a while, you might find 586 00:36:02,380 --> 00:36:04,940 efficiencies or you might just know things so well that it 587 00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:08,035 takes less time and then you have capacity. Well, what are 588 00:36:08,035 --> 00:36:12,195 you going to do with that? It's not so much about being a good 589 00:36:12,195 --> 00:36:16,275 employee, it's just being a curious person, I think. Well, 590 00:36:16,275 --> 00:36:19,395 now I have this extra time, what do I want to learn next? 591 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:23,840 I haven't coded in Ruby on Rails before, but I'm going to take a 592 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,920 look at the code base and see where I can help out or 593 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,800 something like that. 594 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,640 Justin: Mean, there's that old saying, if you've got time to 595 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,445 lean, you've got time to clean. I think to take that one step up 596 00:36:35,445 --> 00:36:40,325 is like for a young person to say, okay, well, if if the 597 00:36:40,325 --> 00:36:42,565 floors need to be swept, I'm going to sweep them because 598 00:36:42,565 --> 00:36:45,605 that's what needs to be done. That's what helps the boss. 599 00:36:45,605 --> 00:36:48,005 That's what helps the company. That's how I can stand out. 600 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,160 But then there's even a level above that to go, okay, well, 601 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,200 I've swept. What next? And then you just look over at your 602 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,640 manager or your boss or your coworkers and go, oh, wait. 603 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,265 They're really struggling over there. I wonder if I could help 604 00:37:02,265 --> 00:37:02,905 with that. 605 00:37:02,905 --> 00:37:06,825 And all you have to do is just go to your boss or your manager 606 00:37:06,825 --> 00:37:10,265 and say, hey, is that something I can help with? You know? Like, 607 00:37:10,265 --> 00:37:13,785 can I do that for you? And they might say no. They might say, 608 00:37:13,785 --> 00:37:15,225 not yet or whatever. 609 00:37:15,225 --> 00:37:19,860 But those kinds of risks are the risks I think more young people 610 00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:23,700 should be taking, especially if they wanna you know, it's hard 611 00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:26,660 to get into tech right now. That's what you wanna be 612 00:37:26,660 --> 00:37:27,140 showing. 613 00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:30,100 Michael: I was gonna say about customer support as well, 614 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:33,145 because we've talked a little bit about that before, Justin, 615 00:37:33,145 --> 00:37:38,665 is especially with our company, Six People, where you work so 616 00:37:38,665 --> 00:37:41,065 closely with the other five who are in engineering and marketing 617 00:37:41,065 --> 00:37:44,745 and so on. For a young person, even if they have a computer 618 00:37:44,745 --> 00:37:47,720 science degree and they want to be a bonafide software engineer 619 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:51,400 one day, just to get in a living and breathing agile tech company 620 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,120 where you can see how product development works, you can see 621 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:59,640 how experienced engineers bring a product from ideation to 622 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:05,455 rolling it out. You can see how pricing decisions get made and 623 00:38:06,095 --> 00:38:09,055 how customer feedback gets prioritized. And you can see all 624 00:38:09,055 --> 00:38:12,975 these moving parts. I think, especially for a young person 625 00:38:12,975 --> 00:38:15,775 who's just graduated, informs the career direction they're 626 00:38:15,775 --> 00:38:17,615 going to take, because they might find that they become 627 00:38:17,615 --> 00:38:21,670 interested in something that previously in their narrowed 628 00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:24,630 lane they hadn't thought about, but something captures their 629 00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:27,910 imagination and they go, I have to be involved in product in 630 00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:28,630 some way. 631 00:38:29,830 --> 00:38:33,830 So I definitely recommend it to new graduates. It's just a great 632 00:38:33,830 --> 00:38:37,825 way to get the context of how it all works together rather than 633 00:38:37,825 --> 00:38:39,505 just the engineering side of the job. 634 00:38:39,505 --> 00:38:42,785 Justin: Yeah. I think it's underrated both in the entry 635 00:38:42,785 --> 00:38:46,225 level, but also in the upper level. Like, both have your 636 00:38:46,225 --> 00:38:48,290 master's degree. Right? Yeah. 637 00:38:48,850 --> 00:38:53,330 So like, two of the most educated people in our company 638 00:38:53,490 --> 00:38:58,930 are in this customer role because it's so important. And 639 00:38:58,930 --> 00:39:01,895 so just because, you know, you know, you could be a junior 640 00:39:01,895 --> 00:39:03,975 programmer and that's an entry level, you can be a junior 641 00:39:03,975 --> 00:39:07,495 marketing assistant, that's an entry level, sure. You can join 642 00:39:07,495 --> 00:39:10,375 customer success entry level. I think it's the like you said, I 643 00:39:10,375 --> 00:39:17,080 totally agree, best way to learn how a company works and why 644 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:21,000 customers buy. Once you understand customer motivation, 645 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,880 you can own anything. 646 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,040 You can own product. You can own engineering. You can own 647 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,275 marketing. You can own sales. It's It is the linchpin for 648 00:39:30,275 --> 00:39:31,155 everything, right? 649 00:39:31,155 --> 00:39:34,835 Michael: Yeah. And I think it's One other thing I'd say is it's 650 00:39:34,835 --> 00:39:38,755 a surprise to me when customer service or customer success is 651 00:39:39,715 --> 00:39:44,000 underrated or not prioritized because the industry I was in 652 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,600 before was a very mature, very hyper competitive industry. Low 653 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,320 exit barriers for customers, if they didn't get what they 654 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,120 wanted, they could go somewhere else. So really the way you 655 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,525 differentiated yourself was through customer service. Where 656 00:39:58,525 --> 00:40:00,685 I worked, we considered ourselves the best. 657 00:40:01,005 --> 00:40:05,965 And so everyone kind of sells the same cereal, the same beans, 658 00:40:05,965 --> 00:40:10,445 the same this. So how do you make a point of difference? And 659 00:40:10,445 --> 00:40:13,485 yeah, my background is in customer support and I've seen 660 00:40:13,485 --> 00:40:15,220 how important it is. 661 00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:18,340 Justin: Absolutely. Well, this was great. I would like to keep 662 00:40:18,340 --> 00:40:21,780 talking, I have another podcast to start recording. I would like 663 00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:24,500 to hear from folks listening. If you're still listening to this 664 00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:26,980 feed, if you're out walking the dog, if you're washing the 665 00:40:26,980 --> 00:40:29,635 dishes, first of all, hey, how's it going? 666 00:40:29,635 --> 00:40:33,075 How are those dishes getting cleaned? But second of all, I 667 00:40:33,075 --> 00:40:35,795 know it's hard in podcasting world to respond, but I would 668 00:40:35,795 --> 00:40:39,235 love for you to respond. There's links in the description. You 669 00:40:39,235 --> 00:40:41,955 can leave a comment on YouTube. You can email us. 670 00:40:41,955 --> 00:40:45,200 There's a you can leave a comment on Blue Sky as well, and 671 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,280 it'll show up on the podcast website. Would love to hear what 672 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,200 you're thinking about customer success, what you thought of 673 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,520 this conversation. Reach out to us. And also share this with a 674 00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,205 friend. And if you do, maybe Michael, Helen, and I will 675 00:41:00,205 --> 00:41:02,045 record an episode every week. 676 00:41:02,605 --> 00:41:05,725 Michael: Let's do it. I was just warming into this Alright. 677 00:41:07,485 --> 00:41:08,525 Justin: Thanks. Thanks, you two. 678 00:41:08,525 --> 00:41:09,165 Michael: Thanks, Justin. 679 00:41:09,165 --> 00:41:09,645 Helen: Bye.